I am very surprised that Giles has Lies My Mother Told Me included in his set. I don't think that episode showcased Giles, I feel it was Spikes. And Passion was really an Angel episode.

I don't like the choices for Cordelia. Homecoming is good but I think The Wish would have been nice to include.

Dawns and Xanders look good for the characters.

[ edited by Passion on 2004-09-24 14:24 ]

Passion | September 24, 16:22 CET

Not in the least, Simon. Who picks these titles? IMO:

Corelia: 'What's My Line' out / 'The Wish' in
Giles: 'Lies My Parents Told Me' out / 'Helpless' in

I can live with the Dawn and Xander collections. But, that's just my choices. Anyone else?

Madhatter | September 24, 16:34 CET

I was suprised when I saw that they had included 'Lies My Parents Told Me'. If I had to chose a Giles episode from the final two seasons, I would have gone with 'Grave'.

And I would have chosen 'The Replacement' over 'The Pack' but the other episodes are spot on.

Simon | September 24, 16:47 CET

Well I can see why they haven't included The Wish, since they probably don't want the character they're meant to be showcasing to die in said episode. However saying that, I'd prefer The Wish to The Prom

Paul_Rocks | September 24, 16:47 CET

Well if people buy it, since it seems they did with the previous set, more dvd sales for Whedonverse, good for the fanchise:D

SeanValen | September 24, 17:01 CET

Thinking aboutit a little more. In my perfect world, the Giles DVD would have the uncut version of 'Lies My Parents Told' where Giles tells Buffy that he killed Ben.

As David Fury said at the Bronze Beta in March 2003:

"The rumors are true. (Not about Goddard and Michelle. ABout Giles and Ben.) It was cut mainly because the first cut of the show was TWELVE MINUTES LONG! But, also because some people didn't think anyone would be interested in Giles confessing to killing Ben. Curious what you guys think.

And, by the way, some great stuff got cut out of the ep. Funny, funny Goddard stuff. Ah, if only there was a director's cut."

If only.

Simon | September 24, 17:13 CET

"But, also because some people didn't think anyone would be interested in Giles confessing to killing Ben"

I remember blowing a gasket over that one.

Caroline | September 24, 17:23 CET

Caroline and Simon, I didn't realize that rumor was true. I'd heard about it in a spoiler, but when it didn't happen, I thought it was internet chatter. Now, I'm a little upset about that scene being deleted. That's what I get for not checking the Bronze Beta regularly.

'The Replacement' was a good choice, Simon. I didn't think of that one.

Madhatter | September 24, 19:06 CET

I do wish they would have done more "director cuts" on the DVD sets. You would think that that would be the perfect place to showcase what they couldn't include because of time restraints...and I'm not talking deleted scenes in the extras menu, I'm talking cut back into the episode a la Lord of the Rings extended editions style.

Jinxieman | September 24, 21:37 CET

How bizarre that "some people didn't think anyone would be interested in Giles confessing to killing Ben." With Whedonverse watchers being so smart and knowledgeable about BtVS's narrative's history and its details, how could anyone *not* be interested? It was so shocking and dramatic and important an action, what Giles did to Ben.

Part of me really, really wishes that this scene hadn't been cut. I would have loved to have seen it. But a small part of me also likes the idea of Giles taking this shocking action to his grave as a secret. Killing Ben - an innocent human being, although how he was willing to sell out Dawn at the end gives him shades of serious gray - had to be done but it was a dramatic, nasty thing and I like the added tension of this moment throbbing forever in Giles's mind and heart as a secret he is sparing Buffy and the others from. Similarly I love how Xander never tells anyone how he saved his friends from death in The Zeppo. These secrets make the viewer feel like a privileged onlooker in a weird way. Ah well. Maybe one day the Buffy DVDs will be rereleased with director's cuts.

Although, here's a scary thought about DVDs: am I crazy to worry about what happens when DVDs become obsolete? What will the new technology be and will the Whedonverse shows be upgraded along with it? I had a panicky thought the other night when I imagined myself sitting in a rocking chair as an old lady and watching my "stories" and then -- panic!

[ edited by phlebotinin on 2004-09-24 20:03 ]

phlebotinin | September 24, 21:53 CET

If they release a third series (which if this goes well is exactly what they're gonna do) what are the characters going to be? Here are my suggestions

ANYA
- The Wish
- Selfless
- Entropy
- All the Way

TARA
- Seeing Red
- Family
- Tough Love
- Dead Things/Tabula Rasa (can't decide)

RILEY
- The Initiative
- Goodbye Iowa
- Out of My Mind
- Into the Woods

ANDREW
- Storyteller
- Never Leave Me
- Life Serial
- Damage

What do you think? Although the real question is probably how much longer can they reuse the Buffy Season Six Promo's without someone clocking on to what they're doing?

Apocalypse | September 24, 22:46 CET

Would it really count if "Damage" was on the Andrew disc. Its an Angel episode after all. Also you probably couldn't realease that one til Angel Series 5 had been released on DVD

Spangel | September 24, 23:12 CET

So, who have they done already? Angel, Faith, Spike, and Willow? I suppose doing a buffy one would sort of be counter to what they're trying to do. Personally, i think the DVDs are a bit useless - four episodes can't really give you that much of the characer's development, and they often seem to include just one part of two-part eps, which i think would be particularly frustrating to someone who had bought them.
But - it is sort of a fun fan exercise to think which four episodes, if you're limited to that, best encapsulate a character. I suppose Anya, Tara, Riley, and Andrew would be logical next choices. Oz is another. The eps you picked seem pretty good, Apocalypse - i'd probably go with Tabula Rasa for Tara (even though i love her scene with buffy at the end of Dead Things), and with Anya i'd replace All the Way (and maybe Entropy as well) with Harsh Light of Day, Triangle, or Once More With Feeling (it might as well go on one of these discs, and Anya had some pretty good moments in it... ). As for the ones announced - I agree that Lies my parents told me is a poor Giles choice. How about "The Gift"? Or Madhatter's suggestion of "Helpless"? Frankly, i don't think any of season 7 giles fits in with his character too much, so it's a shame they had to put one from then on. If they needed one from the last two seasons, I'd prefer either OMWF or Tabula Rasa, both of which have some good, key Giles development.
With Cordelia - I love the Wish, but she's not even in most of the episode, so I can understand not picking it. And the Replacement should be on Xander's (instead of either The Pack or Hell's Bells).

acp | September 24, 23:12 CET

I was thinking about putting The Harsh Light of Day in instead of All The Way, but it seems to me more about Buffy, Parker, Spike and Harmony. I didn't think of Triangle though, so thats a good one and it probably would fit better than "All the Way".

The problem with Oz is that two of his major episodes ("New Moon Rising" and "Phases") were included on the Willow disc already and it doesn't leave the character with many more episodes.

Good Point Spangel, but Andrew didn't appear in many episodes of Angel, so theres no chance of having an Angel disc dedicated to him.

Also I've been thinking about Angel and the second set of discs

FRED
-Fredless
-Supersymetry
-The Magic Bullet
-A Hole in the World

SPIKE (if they decide to give him another disc)
-In the Dark
-Just Rewards
-Hell Bound
-Destiny

LORNE

-Judgement
-Happy Anniversary
-The House Always Wins
-Life of the Party

CONNOR

-A New World
-Deep Down
-Home
-Origin

If only Gwen had appeared in a fourth episode!

Apocalypse | September 24, 23:31 CET

There's already a Fred disc. It has Over the Rainbow, Fredless, Supersymmetry, and Shiny Happy People. Obviously they did these before they could release season 5, or Hole in the World would certainly be on there. Lorne might deserve a Pylea ep too, no? Or "Belonging," as the first ep in which we really find out much about where he's from? I just looked up those angel discs to find the Fred one - i hadn't realized there even WERE angel character discs - I can't believe there's no season 4 wesley on there! Just goofball wesley and then "sleep tight"-era wes.
Again, though - all this feels like a fun exercise, but still rather pointless in terms of buying the actual discs.

acp | September 24, 23:48 CET

But was Ben really "innocent"? Hapless, yes. But certainly less than heroic, As I recall, he never really even considered the "American Werewolf in London" option of killing himself for the greater good. Very attached to his own skin overall and not too much into going out of his way to help others.

It doesn't really change the ruthlessness of his killing in any way, (he's clearly less "evil", than, say, Andrew or, to quote "Unforgiven", "'Deserves' got nothing to do with it.'") but it does, to me, make Giles action slightly less...something.

[ edited by bobster on 2004-09-24 22:19 ]

[ edited by bobster on 2004-09-24 22:20 ]

bobster | September 25, 00:18 CET

i still don't really get the point of these discs, but i agree with SeanValen, good for the franchise is alright with me!

and for the love of god i hope thye don't release a riley one, that just wouldn't sell.

pezwitch | September 25, 01:47 CET

I agree Pezwitch - I don't get the idea of these either, they seem kinda dumb since they pull episodes out of the season arcs. But from a marketing standpoint I guess since they are cheaper than buying the complete season boxsets they will attract more "new" curious people and maybe ultimately get them hooked enough to spring for buying whole seasons.

I definitely don't see why "Lies my mother told me" is on the Giles disc, I agree with Madhatter- should have been "Helpless".

And Simon absolutely The Replacement for Xander also should have been included, although I really would have liked to keep The Pack, not because it shows much about the Xander character, which I guess is what these box sets are supposed to do, but because NBs acting is so good in it.

Passion | September 25, 16:15 CET