I love James, and admire his loyalty to this charity. But these are not the most flattering pictures of him. Okay, I understand that they want the images to be relevant, but one would think that if you want to sell the damn calenders, you'd at least try to make it appealing. It looks like it was put together in a matter of hours using whatever images this person had handy, and a minimal knowledge of photoshop. Even if it meant using non-benefit related pics, they should have found some better ones. God knows they are out there. James can be very photogenic. Maybe I sound shallow right now. I mean, christ, it is for charity. But isn't that all the more reason to care if these puppies are going to sell? Could anyone in their right mind say they would enjoy looking at any of these "collages" for a whole freakin' month?

I know I'm asking for it, but what the hell. I'm new here. Have mercy.

rory | October 25, 01:09 CET

The calendar was made from pictures people on the BAPS list have taken of James Marsters. You can't just use any picture. You have to have permission from the photographer and that is why they used pictures from members. I donated some pictures that I had taken, but they weren't used for the calendar.

Sister Spooky | October 25, 01:29 CET

Not going to bash you, Rory. That artwork - the guy is 42, yes, but he doesn't usually look like it in real life, why make him look like it in art? I don't think the photos are benefit related - they're just standard Con shots of him with fans on his lap.

It's a good cause, though. And to show I'm not just a bitter old bag, I'll donate to the cost of the calendar, just so long as I don't have to have it on my wall.

[ edited by roadrunner on 2004-10-25 00:12 ]

roadrunner | October 25, 01:31 CET

I'd like to gently remind you, folks, that the kind of things you post about a charity item like this says a whole lot more about you than it does the item.

Costs for producing the calendar were kept as low as possible so the money raised could go to fighting Pediatric AIDS, and I don't understand why that merits such nasty treatment here at Whedonesque.

wissxwe | October 25, 01:52 CET

What it says, wissxwe, is that I'm not prepared to tell the Emperor his new clothes are just spiffy just because it's a benefit gig he's at. And production costs were not the issue. But don't blame Whedonesque - we are just a couple of members out of many, and for all I know the vast majority will think it's great and buy it in droves.

roadrunner | October 25, 02:06 CET

I think the painting images are very nice. IF they're by whom I think they are, she does some very interesting work, including James as Harry Dresden and Macbeth. Very stylized, maybe not for everyone but I like her stuff. Jim Butcher even has a painting by her she did of Harry D (again, if it's who I think it is, can't remember her name right off hand though).
Added: It is who I thought: Erin Allen.

I've dealt with Cafepress quite a bit, for GOTR stuff as well as my own stuff and their calendars are put together very well. Also, having worked on the GOTR calendar there were images that weren't my personal favorites we used but someone else liked them, it's all subjective. Doesn't make either one right or wrong.

I think this is all for a very good cause, maybe they'll also do the calendar prints Cafepress offers so you could buy just one image you like with the entire year underneath it. I really like the cover painting and would pay the full price just for that image.

BTW, each calendar will be putting $5.00 towards the charity (the rest is the base price of the calendar that Cafepress charges.)

ETA: Simon, who was posting at the same time I was, is right, it's a very nice idea by fans. If it's a little "raw" that's ok. Simon is also right, fans have put A LOT of money into that charity in James' name (the "hair" situation springs to mind!). I, for one, think it's great how supportive folks are of the charity.

[ edited by T. on 2004-10-25 00:57 ]

Grace | October 25, 02:16 CET

I think it's a really nice idea by the fans. From what I've read James' fans have donated a lot of money for this charity.

And rory it's possibly not the best idea for some one new here to jump staight in and criticise the efforts of other fans who raise money for charity.

Simon | October 25, 02:18 CET

The calendar was put together by fans - not by James' management. They had to use photos that were not copyrighted, so many of them are photos that fans themselves got at convention appearances. There's a certain charm to something that is hand-made out of love versus being professionally put together. I think its sweet.

killinj | October 25, 03:14 CET

I think the calendar's great, a labor of love. And what's wrong with being "older" anyway????? James looking his age is still hot. (Said, of course, by someone older than him!)

[ edited by spikeangellover on 2004-10-25 03:42 ]

spikeangellover | October 25, 05:41 CET

... the kind of things you post about a charity item like this says a whole lot more about you than it does the item.--wissxwe

What does it say about you exactly? Because it seems to me that criticizing a charity, and an item that it's selling are two completely different things. I just feel that the calendar might sell a lot better if it was prettier, which would be a good thing for the sick kids, right? This just occured to me when I looked at it, and felt that it would be something I could say here. And if those were the best pictures they had of him, well, maybe James isn't as photogenic as I thought (IMO)(Which lessens his actual sexiness in no earthly manner, mind you).

And rory it's possibly not the best idea for some one new here to jump staight in and criticise the efforts of other fans who raise money for charity.--simon

I don't mean to sound critisisee of the fans (in fact, I'm not really familiar with the BAPS and I guess I assumed it was the charity organization itself that had put together the calendar--sorry!). I guess I was simply a wee bit disappointed by the non-eye-candyness of the calendar. Oh, and for the record, I jumped in about 3 messages ago. I know, not a lot--I'm just saying... technically.

rory | October 25, 06:43 CET

Maybe Tamara or an admin could edit the link to point to BAPS, as well? Sometimes we all forget that not everyone knows the acronyms and sites that we do :D If not, at least those who are curious can find it here.
BAPS = Bloody Awful Poet Society
http://www.bloodyawfulpoet.com
Started around the BtVS episode Fool For Love, they began as a group who wanted to discuss the character Spike and his redemption.

abbylee | October 25, 07:24 CET

Sister Spooky - The calendar was made from pictures people on the BAPS list have taken of James Marsters. You can't just use any picture. You have to have permission from the photographer and that is why they used pictures from members.

Not all photos used were from BAPS members, I for one am not a BAPS members but my photos were used, although I was not aware this is what it was for - I was under the impression it was something that was going to be given to him. So it was a little strange to look at the calender and see my photos.

[ edited by RavenU on 2004-10-25 05:42 ]

RavenU | October 25, 07:42 CET

It's the thought that counts. It's a fan effort, not a professional effort. So, no, it doesn't look all that great(in my opinion). No, I wouldn't want pics on my wall of people I don't know posing with James, but I'm sure a lot of the BAPS people will buy it, so they'll make some $ for charity. And if others buy it as well, even better.
I think it's more of a gesture to the idea of charity than a 'look at our awesome calendar' thing anyway. And it's a worthy cause. But if you want to give straight at the source, you can go here to find out how.

Rogue Slayer | October 25, 07:47 CET

Ravenu, thought I saw some of your work - hope they give you credit. Issues of photo ownership, and the commercial use does limit photo options, but some fans (digital) photos are not of a high enough resolution to look really good when printed as a high resolution, larger size image... Guess my question is why not just donate the money straight to the charity and do it as a James Marsters Fan?

Patpaws | October 25, 18:36 CET

Guess my question is why not just donate the money straight to the charity and do it as a James Marsters Fan?

JM fans have donated money straight to PedAids, in the amount of about $35,000 to date, I think. This was probably just a way to raise some additional money. At least, I don't think it's much different from buying a toilet paper holder or some such item from the BtVS or AtS set with the proceeds going to charity. You don't do it because you need a new toilet paper holder, you do it to contribute funds for a good cause.

I think it was a lovely idea.

(And hello to all. It's nice to be here.)

wrinkled time | October 25, 20:13 CET

You don't do it because you need a new toilet paper holder, you do it to contribute funds for a good cause.


Funnily enough, when we bought the paper towel holder from BtVS, we did need one. And sadly, our motives aren't that altruistic when we buy items like that. We just want to own them. If the money didn't go to charity, we'd still buy them. But we're geeks! :) That's why if I want to donate money, I'll donate money. If I buy something, it has to be something I want to own, regardless of where the money goes.

[ edited by Rogue Slayer on 2004-10-25 18:24 ]

Rogue Slayer | October 25, 20:23 CET

There was a paper towel holder from the BtVS set?? Cool.

I guess I'm a throwback to the PBS days, when I'd donate $100 and get a tote bag or umbrella or something. I could get a tote bag for a lot less; the point (for me) was simply to donate the money.

But I'm sure PedAids would be happy to get donations whether it was through purchasing a calendar or not. If the calendar campaign does nothing more than raise awareness of the charity, it will have been a worthwhile endeavor. I think it's wonderful when fandom puts its energies toward doing something for a good cause.

wrinkled time | October 25, 20:52 CET

No, I wouldn't want pics on my wall of people I don't know posing with James...

C'mon, RogueSlayer, aren't you planning a High Stakes '04 callendar (sp?)?

WWBD | October 25, 21:22 CET

I could not connect to the site to have a look at the calender,so i shouldn`t really comment but it is for charity.If you are not happy with the quality or content(not happy with James-never) of the calender then,as has been suggested aready, send a donation to the charity in James name,i'm shure it will be gratefully received.Bit cheeky though not making it clear what the pics were being used for.

rainbird | October 25, 22:31 CET

Yeah, I'm with Wrinkled Time and Rogue Slayer – donating to James's favorite charity in his name is great, but I'd much rather give the charity $20 (or is it $25? I can't tell from the site whether the $5 has already been added) than get a mediocre calendar and have the charity get $5.
I'd buy something because I want it, or donate because I want to give. In that context, I didn't see it as necessarily bashing the effort when people said this isn't probably something they'd buy. I think it's a sweet effort, and maybe it is something a few people really want to own, which is great. Even better, maybe it'll acquaint a few more people with the charity, which they'll give to regardless of whether they buy the calendar.
On a different note, a few of those pics made me wonder for a minute how bizarre (and a little creepy) it must be to be James - the fantasy obect of so many young girls (many less than half his age) who fawn all over him at cons. Maybe he's fine with it, but I would think it would lead to some strange interactions!
(and this coming from someone who considers spike very sexy indeed :-) )

acp | October 25, 23:15 CET

A Highstakes Calendar? Nonononono. I may put some of my piccies on my comp for a background, and hey, if I weren't totally lazy and poor, I might have a calendar made with our pics of us with celebs. But I certainly wouldn't expect anyone else to buy it!

And also, I guess I never really 'got' the whole thing of donating in James' honor or name or whatever. I mean, what does that mean, anyway? We random people are donating money, but we want James' name on it? Or does it seem to be from James? Or do you donate and say, "We are doing this in honor of our favorite actor, James Marsters"? I'm just not sure I get the point. Is it so James will get more recognition? Is it so the givers get recognition in James' eyes? Does James get something in the mail saying, "This group of gals has donated money in your name/honor"?

I'm really not trying to be a smart ass, I just don't get it. I could more understand someone giving in memory of someone who died of AIDS or something, but giving in the name of an actor...I just don't get why that is. Somewhere in that equation there is a point of recognition or glory, and to me that seems to go counter to the idea of charity. Or if not counter to it, it just doesn't really jive.

But hey, so long as the money goes where it's needed, I suppose the motivation doesn't matter to the people it's helping.

Rogue Slayer | October 26, 02:47 CET

Hmmmmmmmm. I wonder how it came to be that honoring the living is somehow considered not the normal thing to do in our culture. Just something to ponder. Not everything has to have a point.

killinj | October 26, 07:51 CET

Hmmmmmmmm. I wonder how it came to be that honoring the living is somehow considered not the normal thing to do in our culture.

Well, anything you do after someone is dead (regarding them) is for the living anyway. Honoring them or remembering them or cremating them according to their wishes or getting a tattoo of them on your back or visiting their grave...it's all for the living. The dead could care less. They're dead.

That's my philosophy, anyway.

Personally, what I've never understood is the whole "Don't speak ill of the dead" and people getting practically sanctified after they die. Hey, if someone was an ass in life, I'm not going to pretend they weren't when they're dead! For instance, Reagan. I didn't agree with Reagan's policies, I hate that he gets credit for ending the Cold War, etc. I'm not going to all of a sudden 'honor him' after he's dead. Just because he managed to be the corrupt bastard that beat out the other corrupt bastard to become president doesn't mean he deserves my respect. My respect is earned, not given out randomly if you happen to die.

Rogue Slayer | October 26, 08:36 CET

After listening to NPR this past month I have throw this out some people like getting something tangible in return for their donation no matter what it may be. It is a somethingt at shows others they gave enough to care. That's why charity auctions are such a big thing, it allows people to give money to something and feel as if they are making a difference but they want something to show for it other than a bank statement and a line on their tax return under charitible deductions. Either way it's going to help make everyone feel better, whether they hang it on their wall or not. It's not unlike the Kerry fundraiser held by Joss - give money and get something to show for it, not really that big of a deal in the overall as long as the money gets were it's going to help in the end. Just an observation after listening to NPR's fund drive all month. Not meant to offend anyone, just observing.

RavenU | October 26, 10:43 CET

RavenU

You asked what the point of giving to charity in an actor's name is?

Many actors, James included, have favourite charites and work hard to raise the profile of these causes.. donating in their name shows them and the charities that such work is efective.

We often don't know or need to know why those charities are dear to a celeb's heart but there is no doubt that most charities need a high profile supporter or several to keep the money coming in and thus the good work going.. a word at a con or in an interview can bring a substantial boost to the coffers


Then many boards choose a charity each year and concentrate effort on raising funds for it and are sure to let the charity know in whose name those funds were raised. in this way board members often develop their own links with good causes and carry on raising money long adter the official campaign has ended


I seem to remember James saying at one con when presented with a certificate stating how much one group of fans had raised for charity that the knowledge that fans would get together and work to raise money for others in this way was the best thing about any fame that he had acheived the only * real* thing about his celebrity , a way to make a difference.


Charity efforts unite fans in a good cause and the Buffy fans have raised quite staggering ammounts of money over the years whether by buying things or by donating directly. Whether people donate anonymously , in the name of a loved one, in their own name or in honour of an actor is kind of beside the point .. the point is that they donate .

It's all of the good

debw | October 26, 12:57 CET

The CaféPress site tells me "Product Not Found". Has it been removed for some reason?

Gill | October 30, 22:18 CET