November 22 2004
No Spike bounce for 'The Mountain'.
Despite The WB bringing James Marsters in as a guest star for last night's episode, the show "hit impressive new lows with a 1.0/1, doing only a 0.8/1 in its second half-hour" according to Zap2it.
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Wha? I've heard more people say they like Kennedy than talk about this being good.
Angela | November 22, 14:00 CET
Did anyone watch the episode? How was it?
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2004-11-22 21:04 ]
electricspacegirl | November 22, 14:00 CET
This is a crappy show, i watched about 3 minutes of it just to see who James was and what he was doing on this show.
I know that all of this Angel ranting has been done, but Angel was doing better ratings-wise in its 5th season than in its 4th, it was getting fantastic reviews (better than any other WB show), and it had a fanbase that would follow it to whatever timeslot. The Mountain is getting crappy reviews, truly awful ratings, and ZERO fanbase, yet the WB keeps trying with this thing. Smallville is also falling, so a big HA HA HA to the WB:)
Dhoffryn | November 22, 14:00 CET
I was especially happy to hear that Drew Carey's show (which was originally going to be given half of Angel's slot, as Jordan Levin's friends like Smallville and Drew Carey) was recently cancelled.
Is anything doing well this year, even Smallville (which is the network's only show that I watch), is doing terribly.
Hope the WB are regretting cancelling Angel as it did exactly what they asked it to ratings-wise.
[ edited by Ghost Spike on 2004-11-22 21:08 ]
Ghost Spike | November 22, 14:03 CET
SeanValen | November 22, 14:10 CET
The WB need to beg Joss for a show, and I mean really get down on the ground so low that it hurts, they need to assure him more than one year. I'm sure Joss could rustle up enough of his cast to make a worthwile spinoff, seeing as the majority of them appear to be keen to work with him again.
[ edited by Ghost Spike on 2004-11-22 21:15 ]
Ghost Spike | November 22, 14:14 CET
prufrock | November 22, 14:16 CET
wren | November 22, 14:23 CET
The WB need to beg Joss for a show, and I mean really get down on the ground so low that it hurts, they need to assure him more than one year. I'm sure Joss could rustle up enough of his cast to make a worthwile spinoff, seeing as the majority of them appear to be keen to work with him again.
Why would Joss want to do that?
PMMJ | November 22, 14:37 CET
Of course, he may not want to do it now...
ringworm | November 22, 14:42 CET
Having ranted vociferously and at great length regarding their stupidity in the past, I'll only echo prufrock's succinctly schadenfreude-y sentiments re: their precipitous ratings plummet. Ha! :)
Wiseblood | November 22, 14:56 CET
lycoming | November 22, 15:05 CET
I watched Desperate Housewives and taped The Mountain to watch afterwards, having planned to fast forward through all but James’ scenes. For some reason I watched the whole horrid thing. Thank goodness the show still doesn’t air in Angel’s old time slot or that would have just been too much. They cancelled Angel for that???
Not even James Marsters could rise above that material, folks, that’s how bad it was. He is an actor, not a miracle worker and given that he had about nine minutes of screen time, I guess he did the best he could. He tried. You could almost feel him trying, but as he was giving it his all (albeit unevenly, but I think that was the fault of the script, the directing and the show in general) those ‘pretty’ kids gave him nothing back. I don’t know if it was their inexperience or they were confused by his energy or if they were in a deep depression from being on such a terrible show, but they had no chemistry with him. And he has chemistry with everyone!
I’m glad he seems to be going for the flawed/character roles, but I hope to never again be witness to such a waste of a talented actor.
bloodflowers | November 22, 15:31 CET
MindPieces | November 22, 15:34 CET
Some people found the quoting of Shakespeare, the tats, the alcoholism, the nicknames all at odds with each other but I think it was an effort to show there was more to the character than meets the eye (and obviously more depth than any of the other characters).
Note: no references to ex or aging rocker stuff that I could tell. Also, we were spared any cliched "drunken antics." Although the alcoholism was a backdrop to what happened. For what it was it was a nice little character for him to play. It could have been worse, they could have had him be the "beefcake" male version of the blond bimbo (one of the other guest stars) that seemed to only show up out of one character's past to show off her tight little hip huggered derriere. Of which we were graced with more than one close up shot of...He certainly added depth to his character, more than the entire rest of the show put together. The actor who played the son Sam did ok, and their scenes together were more than decent. The rest of the show, a cornucopia of whom has bedded whom, not my cuppa by a long shot.
Almost forgot, Media Week had slightly different numbers but still I don't think there's much that can help this show. Undoubtedly cancellation looms on the horizon I'm sure. I have no comment on The WB that hasn't been said before, so won't even go there.
[ edited by Gracie on 2004-11-22 22:52 ]
Grace | November 22, 15:42 CET
palehorse | November 22, 15:54 CET
Hubby and I were going to play a drinking game where you take a shot everytime blondie showed her caboose. Probably wouldn't have made it through the first half though without needing an ambulance.
James was good, but he was in it maybe 5-7 minutes. The rest made my brain bleed out of my ears. And made me kinda sad that James has gone from Angel to this. The one actor from the Buffyverse who deserves so much better because of his talent and hard work, and he's the one doing the crappiest gigs.
Rogue Slayer | November 22, 15:55 CET
Sounds like they're trying to kill TM. And good riddance too, but then don't bother bringing James in. This only makes him look bad. And dear lord the whole show was far worse then I ever thought! Who wrote this? Who read this and thought "this is a hit"? Bunch of bad relationships, some bit of jailbait shaking her shapely ass right in front of the camera about 5 times per 3 minutes, serveral people who don't like their dad and that's about it.
All of it extremely bad dialogue. And James did his best in the last scene, and he's good at that kind of emotional moments, but pretty much everything else about his role was so badly written, such a string of horrible cliches, that I suspect in between takes, he must have been in his trailer, weeping uncontrollably.
EdDantes | November 22, 16:24 CET
Truer words were never spoken. That's an hour of my time I'll never get back.
This is the worst show I've ever had the displeasure to watch. Luckily I only taped James's scenes, so I won't have to stare at the jailbait ass anymore. As Xander said, "Can I be blind too?"
ASassyKat | November 22, 16:35 CET
Yeah...he did his best...which was good..he found the center of the character which was slippy at best. An alcoholic who is so dizzy he doesn't think to read the instructions on a capital asset he's investing in?
As a actor, the script, the words written are sometimes your only clues as to what it's all about for your character and if you take the info given in The Mountain as the base line notes; you have to play him as this guy who listens late and who's vision is so dim he's walking very close to 'crazy.'
James had to do a radical emotional state change within a matter of ten secounds. He had to go from being as happy as a hound baying at the moon to reaching for a drink within about ten seconds,(It was in the script) Now he actually pulled this off. I believed it...but this element of radical emotional highs and lows played like a completely different vibe in the overall show.
He did a nice sorrow scene, nice choaky throaty emotional bit--but his fellow actors just stared at him like button eyed dolls.
One doll, actually had her own THEME music whenever she came on screen which would have been funny...except...I think they were trying to be seriously sexy.
All the while, I found myself thinking, as these characters pranced around faux sexual situations like an extraterrestial's version of a Doris Day/Rock Hudson flick done up in french farce to the tenth power--I--I found myself thinking--just go back to THAT story. Ted and son. It really did stand out as the only story in the thing...and that in itself is a testament to James. When an actor gets you interested in his story...he's doing his job.
James is capable of pulling his intelligences, charisma and soul in--for the truth of the character...and the bottom line was--because Ted was so dim...(as written) James was dim...BUT. And here's the test...I was interested in his storyline. It's especially importantant to know when you are playing a guy like Ted and you have to pull yourself back in from view of the camera to make the script believable. I wanted to hear more of the Ted's story and because of that, James can be proud of doing his job.
Man, I sure would love to see what he can do, when he's at the center of the story. (coming soon)
BforBeth | November 22, 16:37 CET
electricspacegirl | November 22, 16:37 CET
Anyway, I had watched TM last week, just to get an idea of what was going on and couldn't believe how terrible it was; this week didn't change my mind any. I feel sorry for JM that he had to be in the midst of such a mess. He gave it a try, but the material was beyond help. I just hope this doesn't reflect badly on him. Although a short role, his obvious energy and talent just made a huge contrast to the rest of the show that it really was kind of pathetic. I sure hope he gets some good rolls soon. Hate to say it but if he was to be on a WB show I would have rather seen him on "Charmed"; at least it's not as dull as TM.
spikeangellover | November 22, 16:38 CET
Seeing JM - especially with his Shakesperean quotes - and also seeing The Grudge for the first time this weekend just reminded me of how much I miss the Buffyverse and those amazing actors - and how those actors need good material to shine.
BTW am I the only one who thought 'blonde bombshell' on The Mountain was too big for those oh-so-tight jeans of hers? But then I like them skinny like SMG and AH.
WWBD | November 22, 16:40 CET
eddy | November 22, 16:43 CET
Passion | November 22, 16:49 CET
Don't know if I'm glad or not that I'm not the only one who noticed the caboose being waved in our faces! LOL. Yep, woulda been on the floor passed out if that had been a drinking game! A caboose with it's own theme song, gah.
I don't think playing a bit part like that will affect him adversely...I think he is actually being choosy in his roles...While DB has been decidely busier, we've yet to see all those "can't fail blockbusters" he's been doing since the end of Angel!
[ edited by Gracie on 2004-11-22 23:59 ]
Grace | November 22, 16:55 CET
killinj | November 22, 17:01 CET
And when we didn't have her caboose in the frame, we had her tossing or flipping her long hair. Really annoying. Either end, this poor "sexpot," IMO, had plenty of "pot" shoehorned into those jeans but limited "sex" appeal. Everything was too forced, too stereotyped. (I really don't mean this as a slam against the actor in the role -- she wasn't given anything to work with, either.) Again, what a mess. I really want to see JM in a good role. And is it possible that TM is hanging on in the schedule because the WB have nothing better in the works?
palehorse | November 22, 17:23 CET
MandyMouse | November 22, 17:53 CET
Ted is a very OTT character, you can just see it from the way he talks and makes his future plans. A little boy who never grows up and takes responsiblity. The last scene between Ted and his son was very touching.I've never seen an actor who cries better than James. He made me ache for Ted in 10 seconds. He's an amazingly good actor and he's being on that show - even only fot 8 minutes- is a shame. I hope he'll never goes back to it. :: shudders ::
The Pierre Heist will air in February. Until then I hope we'll get to see him in something better.
How do shows like this get on the air?
They repeat better(!) than Angel. (Jordan Levin mentality)
[ edited by pelinxf on 2004-11-23 00:58 ]
pelinxf | November 22, 17:57 CET
Simon | November 22, 18:00 CET
Sure, just by the sheer fact of advertising him as "Buffy's James Marsters" they were hoping to reel in some new viewers. And they actually did get many of us who would never watch it otherwise, but it backfired because it's actually worse than any of us thought. Or at least me.
I'm pretty much losing hope for tv movies, since it will be a few years at least, and vampires don't age, but actors do! And unless both Angel and Spike shanshu, not sure the aging would fly.
Rogue Slayer | November 22, 18:04 CET
"And when we didn't have her caboose in the frame, we had her tossing or flipping her long hair. Really annoying. Either end, this poor "sexpot," IMO, had plenty of "pot" shoehorned into those jeans but limited "sex" appeal. Everything was too forced, too stereotyped."
The hair, the white snowbunny outfit, plus she kept doing this pouty thing with her lips...ugh.
I didn't really realize til now that I also did the "kinda" mute thing as well, turned down the volume a little while watching all the other scenes and sort of went, "Blah, Blah, Blah" in my head...it backfired though because towards the end I was saying, "Butt, Butt, Butt..." in my head. See, more proof it would never have worked as a drinking game, alcohol poisoning anyone? I definitely WANTED a drink by the time those scenes were over though!
Not only do I think the individual part probably looked pretty decent on paper (Ted's, not the bimbo's) he may have landed it back before it was quite so obvious how bad the show really was.
Simon, I absolutely think it was a ploy by The WB. Or least they tried to use the advertising to their advantage. Which is a shocker in itself, since they barely advertised Angel when it was on...Not sure how it will affect future movies since TPTB at The WB have to know of the overwhelming, "I'm boycotting The WB!" that has been sang all over the net since the attempt to resurrect Angel failed. They have to know that many won't watch unless it IS something from the 'verse no matter which actor it is, even James.
[ edited by Gracie on 2004-11-23 01:28 ]
Grace | November 22, 18:22 CET
MandyMouse | November 22, 18:46 CET
killinj | November 22, 20:18 CET
I can't truthfully comment on "The Mountain" because i'm one of the lucky UK Whedonesque posters who didn't have the option to watch it. Not that i was likely to anyway despite being a massive fan of James, too big a fan to see the poor guy suffering that material anyway.
Just wanted to say something about Rogue Slayer's comments on the telemovies though. Admittedly nothing seems to be happening in the near future, almost definately not until next season now i would guess, but this idea that it will be years before anything happens doesn't hold water with me.
For one thing, things in the world of television change over night. We could hear tomorrow how Joss has been in talks with a network to produce a series of telemovies, hell even a whole new regular series, and it would not be all that surprising. Certainly there is absolutely no reason to believe that something could not happen in 2005. It doesn't make the slightest difference what has been said by Joss today, he could change his mind or get an offer he couldn't refuse at any time.
As far as this thing about how vamps don't age but actors do, i read this comment all the time and so i'll say what i always say. So what?
I suspend my disbelief on a daily basis to ignore the fact that vampires aren't real so as to enjoy my favourite tv shows, i think i'm capable of ignoring the fact that the vampires appear a little bit older then they perhaps really should do. Okay it may not be accurate but it's just a tv series.
Frankly i'd rather have a six or seven year Spike series and ignore that this immortal vamp looks to be getting a few extra wrinkles than not have any more Spike at all.
I don't want it to seem like i'm directing this at Rogue Slayer, i'm really not, but it does annoy me a little when i read how fans would rather put absolute accuracy in the physical look of the vampires before getting some new stories told.
The Watcher | November 22, 20:37 CET
[ edited by catalyst2 on 2004-11-23 03:51 ]
catalyst2 | November 22, 20:51 CET
There's a different spin on ratings at MediaWeek, but either way, the show is crap.
The kid said something about the dad's emotional mood swings, so no doubt, that's why James interpreted the character the way he did. That final scene just shows how talented he is, because James was incredibly moving with a script from hell. I am spoiled on the Whedon shows and LOST and over the years I really refuse to watch TV unless it's excellent.
Obviously, I love Da Marsters quite a bit. :)
twiggy | November 22, 20:53 CET
I find it funny that the WB cancelled Angel because it didn't repeat well with an average of 2.2 million viewers. The first airring of these TM episodes can't even get near those figures. Bet the WB really misses those 4.2 million viewers Angel used to pull in. Well, we tried to warn them they were making a mistake. Maybe they'll listen next time.
Madhatter | November 23, 03:26 CET
Guess-work on my part but you have to remember the beans - nothing but beans count - not inspiration, not genius, not anything but BEANS!
catalyst2 | November 23, 03:40 CET
Madhatter | November 23, 04:09 CET
No matter how ludicrous we believe the ratings system is the networks takes those figures very seriously so results like this can in no way be thought of as being acceptable the The WB.
Observe how little i care though! ;)
The Watcher | November 23, 05:04 CET
'The Mountain' is not a brilliant show....I know the WB had tremendious hopes for it but....
Does The WB have ANY hit/"brand" show right now??? Charmed?
As people allready have stated The WB needs to bet Joss for a show...
Jonas | November 23, 08:43 CET
catalyst2 | November 23, 09:13 CET
I think he packed up his office for a reason. I think he knows the relationship and time for what he can do in that way is over.
I'd prefer to see a host of indies or something on cable so he can cut loose. I say, forget about any kind of thing on the WB, everybody hates the WB now anyway...so why not say 'thanks for the birthing and time in between' and wave bye bye.
I think BTVS blew wild and brilliant when it went to UPN. I liked Felicity quite a bit and of course BTVS and ATS but they are in a ratings war againest the insanity of 'reality' tv...or sexcoms like Desparate Housenags (sorry fans, NO desire to see people blessed with beauty and wealth and food on the table and needs met every which way but up the ying/yang; cry about their lonely vaginas. Don't like your life? LEAVE--don't bite the hand that married you.)
So the WB which created great shows in the past like Gilmore Girls, Felicity, and all things ME, in todays market, looks around and fabricates a sexcom to compete with other sexcoms or a 'reality show'--(if anyone could be really real with a camera in their face and the First AD telling them where to stand for better light.)
If you fault the WB, man, you GOTTA fault everybody. We should be grateful to them for what they have given us and realize the world has changed in the past four years. It IS a business. Would you want someone telling you how to run your bank account? Get mad if you want, but that won't change capitalism.
It seems all of network tv are now in the same artistic situation with the same massive overhead. And when there is fear, exec producers are afraid to take risks.
Indies, cable, and the internet seem to me to be the last realistic expression (in today's society)for balancing artistic aesethic with production overhead. The ceiling and budget is fixed on a single project and negligable compared to a long running tv show under contract.
I say, forget about the WB. Let w b be an acronym for 'way behind.' Or as the recent telecast of sunbunnies on The Mountain suggests:
(white behind)
uh...can I post that?
BforBeth | November 23, 09:53 CET
However given no other options i would rather see the bridges rebuilt with The WB than never see a new slayerverse show again. There would need to be some kind of understanding that the show would be given a fair chance of survival (although i think that Joss would want some assurances before he even considered going back to television at all, no matter what channel) but if that was the case then i'd be okay with The WB's involvement.
I'm certainly not going to spite the future of the slayerverse just for the sake of spiting The WB anyway.
The Watcher | November 23, 10:04 CET
catalyst2 | November 23, 10:11 CET
Hopefully he knows though that no matter where he goes with his next tv show we will gladly follow. Even if that is back into the belly of the WBeast! ;)
The Watcher | November 23, 10:16 CET
I rather have drama then reality TV.
There was some mention of a new "Kolchak: the Night Stalker" show, so MY guess is that there is a some what interest in concepts that dip into the teritory of the supernatural/SF due to "Lost".
How doe sthis relate to the world of all thing Whedon? Well he is quite brilliant at the latter or drama in general I would say...
[ edited by Jonas on 2004-11-23 17:48 ]
Jonas | November 23, 10:26 CET
Madhatter | November 23, 10:42 CET
Jonas | November 23, 10:48 CET
Madhatter | November 23, 11:06 CET
I don’t mean that in a patronising, pat on the head sort of way, but as a genuine comment. Like you, I would also spite away with the spite fairies all night long (ok, the fairies bit is just me). Civilisation just means wearing clothes (and as we know now, Mr J prefers the no pants route), so lets be thoroughly uncivilised about all things WB.
miranda | November 23, 11:20 CET
[ edited by kathylovesspike on 2004-11-23 22:21 ]
kathylovesspike | November 23, 15:21 CET
"Did anyone think that there was an underlying ploy by The WB to get Buffy and Angel fans to tune into this episode?"
Yes ...as RogueSlayer said their advertising proved it. Also, James said that the WB tried to get him to do some press for the show but his agent advised against it because it was such a small part. So he didn't do it.
I didn't watch it because I refuse to watch anything on the WB, even for James. And based on the reviews on this board and elsewhere, I'm glad I missed it.
[ edited by resa on 2004-11-24 02:45 ]
resa | November 23, 19:43 CET
"Part of our business is to get (a show) to last so you can syndicate it," Brillstein said. "You can't syndicate this dreck - just sweet music to my ears!
My anti-dreck crusade feels as if it has gained some momentum. Must now kick off the anti-dross crusade too!
catalyst2 | November 23, 20:28 CET
Koos | November 23, 23:28 CET
RavenPurgatory | November 28, 00:05 CET