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November 24 2004

Possibly the Ultimate Question in a Poll you could possibly ever have! Every week Slayerverse ask their readers a question e.g. "Is Sarah Michelle Gellar's hair nice". But this week's question will have us perplexed for hours as to which option we should select.

[ edited by Caroline on 2004-11-25 00:12 ]

It also opens up a nice topic for Whedonesquers who exude a calm but busy manner to discuss!

I am absoloutely shocked at the amount of votes Firefly has got. Currently it has 2.7% of the vote so I just had to vote for it because I love it so much
Gatta go with Buffy
I've got to say Buffy will always be my favorite because it was first, Angel was probably the best of the 3 shows, and Firefly had potential to be the best of the 3.

Nice vague, non-answer.
They are all #1 in my book!!!

Yeah! SO there! :P
No question, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
I love all 3 shows, obviously, but BtVS is and always will be number 1. BtVS just has something that the other 2 are missing (i think that Firefly had a good chance to get it had the time).
Definetely Buffy, but Firefly with that little that we got to see, already had the potential to surpass it.
Angel with it's 4th and 5th season was getting better, and could've been even greater if given the chance.

In order:
1st BtVS
2nd Firefly
3rd Angel
I think Firefly would have ended up the best if it lasted long enough to fulfill its promise; Angel was probably the best in fact; but Buffy was the most important thematically/culturally/whatever-ally.

So I'm pretty much with Ghost Spike. Nothing wrong with a little vagueness.
Buffy owns me - it had the best of everything, though they're all great. Still, given three wonderful stories, it's gotta come down to characters. That in mind, Buffy beats everything else, hands down. I liked the other guys, but I freakin' loved the Buffy crew.
That's very difficult. Buffy was the first show I got hooked on, so it has a special place in my heart, but I think of Buffy and Angel as the same universe, the same emotional obsession. I like Buffy and Angel the same, and each have touched me deeply. I don't think I can choose between the two.

However, the question is not which show you like best, but which show is the best, and I think Firefly was consistantly better in it's production, direction, and acting. It didn't affect me as emotionally as Buffy and Angel because it wasn't on long enough to get to that point, but I do think it was better made.

So, I'm going to have to choose Firefly.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2004-11-25 01:06 ]
Whenever this question comes up, I just have to stand back and really appreciate how we've been delivered three magnificent shows by the same man, each of which is individually excellent and yet still comparable to the other two. Take the meddlesome studios and executives out of the way and you've got King Midas. =)
Firefly, for pretty much the same reasons as ElectricSpaceGirl. Buffy Season 7 continues to leave a bad taste in my mouth. While that doesn't hurt my love for the first five seasons any (and the majority of Season 6), it does tarnish Buffy's reputation, IMO, as a complete quality series. Angel had some serious ups and downs during most of its seasons, and despite Joss' reassurance that he's okay with the ending they were forced into, the fact that Angel was canceled before it was ended by its creator(s) is still felt. ElectricSpaceGirl named the positives of the two series above, these are a rough overview of my grievances.

I have insane insane love for both Buffy & Angel, they were a huge part of my teenage years/early twenties, but Firefly was the only project that got out unscathed and that counts for a hell of a lot in my eyes.
Definitely Angel.
Angel was a more male dominent show and had a lot darker stories which is what I like so I'm going with Angel.
I loved every single epsiode of Buffy (Even Beer Bad), and I definately prefer it to Angel, although I think Season 5 of Angel was at least as good as the best of Buffy.

I've only seen two episodes of Firefly so far :(

So I can't really say too much about it. I do like it a LOT so far, but I can't really say how good I think it is compared to the others.

So Buffy wins with me as well.
I have insane insane love for both Buffy & Angel, they were a huge part of my teenage years/early twenties, but Firefly was the only project that got out unscathed and that counts for a hell of a lot in my eyes.

This is exactly how I feel. Firefly, although not perfect, was, and now always will be, almost uniformly consistent in quality and execution.

However, I picked Angel for the simple reason that it took everything about Buffy that made it so good and somehow managed to improve upon and surpass it (for the first three years at least). Before I'd seen a single episode of Angel I wouldn't have believed it was possible to improve on Buffy.
I never meant that I hate anything about Buffy and Angel, just that they both had a shaky start (Firefly didn't), they both had episodes that were ok, or not great, and sometimes the acting wasn't very good (I'm pretty much thinking of guest stars or reoccuring characters). I saw none of these problems with Firefly. Even Heart of Gold or Bushwhacked, or any of the episodes that some people think are sub-par, I loved. Especially Heart of Gold.

I am one of the few who never hated a single season of Buffy or Angel. I also am one who cannot decide which season I like the best. But although I loved the shows til the end, I did see flaws where in Firefly, I didn't see any. It's possible that there just wasn't enough time for it to stumble a little before it rose to it's potential. But I thought ever episode that was made was just stellar TV. It's really difficult to compare that to 12 years of Buffy and Angel.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2004-11-25 01:22 ]
Gotta go with girl power on this one. Buffy had it all. Angel came up a little sub-Buffy to me, but still an amazing show. Firefly is really hard to compare to the other two since it's a totally different genre, and it didn't have enough time to show us what it could do given 5-8 seasons. Would the concept have been sustainable that long? I'm confident in Joss, but now we'll never know, because I don't think anyone(except fans) has an interest in it returning to the small screen.
Star Wars Ė The Phantom Menace of course.

Oh damm, wrong board.

Sorry, couldnít resist. Angel for me, because it caught me at a time in my life where it made a real difference and because itís very grown up.
We have two was hideously abused, and we've had her (Nellie) since 1998. She has captivated our hearts in an unimaginable fashion, and the bond she and my wife share is positively spiritual.

The other dog, Macduff, is a remarkably gorgeous and magnificent former feral hound. He is an astounding addition to our family, and we love him immeasurably, my wife especially. She utterly adores him. He has made our lives tremendously better. That said, Nellie is somehow above him in our estimation.

One day, appropos of nothing, I said to my wife, "Nellie is Buffy, and Macduff is Angel." She mused on that a moment and said, "Yes...yes, that's right. Macduff is in my heart, but Nellie is in my soul."

[ edited by Lizard on 2004-11-25 02:43 ]
I was so tempted to vote in Firefly. It had such potential, and it literally broke my heart when it was cancelled. I loved it absolutely from the beginning and everything clicked and I loved all the crew (even River and Book after a while, especially River) -- and, best, it looks stellar on DVD. But the 14 episode never-completed arc and the never coming to fruition thing... I had to go with Buffy. The show that stole my soul and obsessed me for x amount of years... I originally watched it from the beginning and while it took a few years to utterly captivate me, it eventually got there. It's my, uh, obsession. (read: non-creepy)

Angel would have to be my third. It's never seemed as more than a shadow of BtVS to me, and I'm still ambivalent about it. Liked the last season, Puppet Angel and Dark-ish Wesley and Illyria are SO COOL, but it never had the same consistent quality of either of the above shows.
Letís see....

Buffy: over 100 hours of entertainment; a seven year story arc; episodes dealing with EVERYTHING including family, friends, trust, love, responsibility, abandonment, guilt, death, rebirth, rape, the price of power, sacrifice, redemption, loyalty, and grief; richly developed characters; a logical, satisfying ending.

Angel: over 77 hours of entertainment; a five year story arc; episodes focusing mainly on redemption, loyalty, family, friends, trust, grief, and the price of power; richly developed characters; a logical but - for me - unsatisfying ending.

Firefly: over 10 hours of entertainment; less than a year story arc; episodes dealing with loyalty, friends, sacrifice, trust, love, and the promise of much more; richly developed characters; an abrupt, completely unsatisfying ending.

Nope.... I still canít pick which Joss Whedon series was, for me, the best. Theyíre all in my heart.
ooh, first comment. Exciting!

I've gotta go with Angel. There are many reasons: the epic scope of the story, the awesome morality tale, the brilliant character development -- but it really comes down to one thing: hot men. The beautiful, glorious hot men.

[ edited by sistakaren on 2004-11-25 02:15 ]
Loved your story Lizard - it was beautiful!!

Okay, this is a tough one for me and it's between Buffy and Firefly. Angel will always be a continuation of BtVS to me, and although wonderful, never outshone BtVS. I feel this is a hard thing to judge because I've seen BtVS from beginning to end, I know where the story is going, I know most shows by heart and a little of the once bright burning light has dimmed because of all my viewing and familiarity with the show. Seeing BtVS through my unspoiled eyes during it's first runs was just so wonderful and exciting!

Firefly seemed like it clicked right from the beginning. Joss Whedon seemed to have mastered his craft. BtVS and AtS seemed to be his college and training ground and Firefly seemed on the verge of becoming his masterpiece. He was no longer the green young writer/producer of a new show based on a movie that flopped (not his fault as we all know). He, himself, has said in some of his commentaries for BtVS that he didn't really quite know what he was doing in the beginning.

When Firefly aired, it was apparent to me that he had learned all he could and was giving us this wonderful, exciting new 'verse to obsess over and he managed to get us all wanting more in a handful of episodes. I truly adored the first season of BtVS but comparing the two it is obvious to me which show, at that time, had more substance.

I think, if Firefly had been given it's fair chance to shine, it would've gone down as Joss' best series of the three (and who knows what else he has in that wonderful, creative mind of his that could've been next for a series). But because we didn't get a fair amount of seasons to truly compare it to BtVS, I will say that BtVS is the best one because it was a completed series and Joss accomplished all he wanted to do with it.

I just wish we had had seven years of Firefly to truly have a great debate about it. And again, when I saw BtVS with virgin eyes, it blew me away and since then I've seen each episode so many times that it is no longer new and as exciting because I know every line (well almost) and every "surprise". Firefly will always be in that "honeymoon" stage for me, all shiny and new and left wanting more, more, more!!!

Edited to add that although I picked Buffy in my post here, I voted for Firefly because I felt it deserved the publicity more with the upcoming movie coming and all (and I honestly do feel if it had been given those seven seasons it would've been Joss' best series to date so far).

[ edited by blwessels on 2004-11-25 02:26 ]
Buffy was a bittersweet symphony, Angel was great but more like a single song and Firefly a short but exquiste bar of melody. Buffy wins hands down for me but I think that melody could have been expanded into something exquisite. That single song was pretty damn good too!

Nah, still Buffy!
I kinda hate these sorts of questions. It's like a Gordian knot that I just want to whack in half with a sword. ;)

That said ... Buffy is special. There's nothing like it and it's a cultural milestone. It defined the kick-ass chick heroine for TV like no one else ever before (props to Xena for paving the way, but Buffy is a teeny little blond thing -- the irony is so much more effective). I love so much about it -- the emotional depth and honesty, the warmth among the core characters, the amazing exploration of female empowerment -- but to be completely, totally honest, I never had my heart totally stolen by Joss until Angel came along.

I'd never really deeply identified with Buffy or anyone else on Buffy more than Angel, and when he moved to his own show my affections migrated with him. Angel was mature, its more ambiguous, shadowy shades of gray contrasting with Buffy' stark sunshine. It was dark and powerful like nothing else I've ever seen on TV, and the themes of feeling lost, searching for purpose and finding self-sufficiency hit me where I lived. From the opening scene of "City of...", that affection grew overnight into outright obsession with the whole redemption-seeking-screwed-up vampire package. (It didn't help that as time went on, the more self-righteously principled and uptight Buffy got, the less I found myself liking her.)

And then there's Firefly, incredible in its own right. It boasted a cast whose characters sprang to full-blown life from the first moments of the series without the stumbles of its predecessors. It didn't have the metaphorical and symbolic emphasis (so much) of the other two series, which I admit to missing a little, but it more than made up for that absence by regularly exhibiting a certain realistically visceral quality that Angel attained only occasionally and Buffy rarely.

It's impossible to definitively choose because they're all wonderful. I don't love them all exactly equally, though. I love each show for different and equally compelling personal reasons, and it varies by day and by my mood. I even love their failings, as much as I continue to be niggled by them, because they strove so hard for heights that other series would never dare aspire to. Like everyone else who thinks Firefly was technically overall the best-executed show, I'd have to agree: "Out of Gas" is a POV/character study masterwork that literally left me gasping, and "Objects in Space" ... god, you could write a thesis on that episode alone.

For the purposes of this question, I guess I could allow that Angel wins out by virtue of my mighty adoration for the titular tarnished vampire champion. Where some people go 'What would Buffy do?' in trying circumstances, I've been known to ask 'What would Angel do?' and arrive at a very satisfactory resolution (only without his latter-day reliance on busting heads first and asking questions later, 'cause that would be, you know, wrong).

Oh, yeah, and what sistakaren said re: AtS: The beautiful, glorious hot men. Grrrr!

[Edited because I originally posted this from work between doing five other things, and for some reason I thought I'd be able to better explain my reasoning when I got home. Silly me! It gets longer, not more coherent.]

[ edited by Wiseblood on 2004-11-25 08:37 ]

I was fond of Buffy, I liked Angel, but I loved Firefly. :)
Gotta go with Buffy. I laughed....I cried....I shrieked at the TV....I got stomped on ....chewed up.... spat out.... I couldn't watch.... I couldn't not.... I babbled endlessly at anyone who would listen.... I joined fan forums.... I worked out how to program my VCR.... I bought DVD after DVD.... I sat in darkened rooms for days on end without eating or sleeping.... Never done that before.... Joss will probably make me do it again.
Duurrrr... ;)

On all emotional counts, for which show really, as people have said, captured my soul, kept me captivated, took me on emotional highs and lows, drew me into the characters utterly and completely and made me care deeply about them, and made me totally obsessed, it'd have to be Buffy. A year and a half after the show ends and I'm still dissecting the character development and storylines.

And b/c of that, I can't actually objectively assess overall quality of the shows. I suspect electricspacegirl might be right about the overall quality of Firefly (especially since they only had such a limited number of episodes, they had a lot less chance to screw up). But Firefly was on for such a limited amount of time I find it very hard to compare to the 7 seasons of Buffy. I suspect Angel was better than I gave it credit for for years, b/c for me it was always a continuation of Buffy and never had characters that drew me in like the Buffy characters did, so I always had an emotional distance from the show.

So objectively, I can't choose. Emotionally, it's Buffy all the way.
This is a tough one.

With Buffy I could relate on some level to everything that happened on the show, and interestingly enough at pretty much the same time it was airing, so I have a real connection with it that I don't think anything could ever surpass. Sometimes it is scary how much I over identify.

But that being said Season 5 of Angel was amazing. I'm not sure if it was because Buffy wasn't on the air anymore, or if it was because I genuinely liked it that much more than previous seasons, but I loved it.

I told a friend of mine once, not to long ago, that I think I have come to like Angel more than I ever thought I would, maybe even more than Buffy. To which he instantly said 'That is simply not possible, you will never like anything more than Buffy, you make me watch the damn show all the time!'

But how Angel ended, trying to fight for what is right not matter what, fighting from the inside and trying not to give in - going down in a blaze of glory. I just donít think anything can top that for me. Ever.

So I'm on the fence, but because of that my vote goes to Angel, cause I know between the two it will be the underdog and I think that is why I love it even more.

I can't really comment on Firefly because I haven't seen enough of the eppys, but I fully intend to rectify that situation in the not to distant future.
Buffy, I can't really even find the words to explain it. I think it comes down to the characters as Jet Wolf said.

[ edited by Linda on 2004-11-25 04:31 ]
This is a truly cruel question which I'm not going to answer; I love them all and would be equally crushed without any of them.
Well, in Slayerverse i`ve said that Angel can`t make me feel like Buffy does. So... Buffy. I like Angel too, but...

Another example. I love every season of Buffy, but i really dislike Angel S1. I watched it because it was part of the Buffyverse.
So, i can`t say i love the whole Angel`s run.

I haven`t seen Firefly yet ¨¨

[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2004-11-25 05:11 ]
Buffy will always be my first love.
"Firefly" had some great potential, but ultimately I can't, in good faith, name it the best of the three. "Angel" I love, but the downsides to it (some of the soap operaness of S4, and Charisma's performance in that season) really bring it down for me.

Also, I mentioned it in another thread - after watching S7 again, it gave me a whole new appreciation of Buffy, as show that not only influenced the Zeitgeist, but my entertainment life, personal life, and who knows - maybe my professional life.

Buffy where it all started, the characters, the imagined world. Angel never did get out of the shadow of Buffy, Firefly didn't get enough time to develop.
Buffy all the way. Angel, sadly, didn't really get its ensemble properly assembled until season 5. And Firefly sometimes lacked an emotional core or focus. It felt like we were just observing the characters, not experiencing their feelings.
Buffy, without any doubt. No characters of any other show have made me feel for them so much.
Definately Buffy







I can not answer this question. If I think about it anymore, something in my brain will certainly pop.
"Angel" I love, but the downsides to it (some of the soap operaness of S4, and Charisma's performance in that season) really bring it down for me

You don't think Buffy S6 had the same soap operaness? Buffy sleeps with Spike (repeatedly). Willow gets addicted. Xander leaves Anya at altar. Spike sleeps with Anya. Xander finds out Spike slept with Buffy and Anya and gets really pissed. Need I say more?

Another example. I love every season of Buffy, but i really dislike Angel S1.

Wha? Angel S1 had Doyle and the best doubler of either show: Five By Five/Sanctuary. Pure classic Buffyverse material.

And Wiseblood: totally agree on Out of Gas being a masterwork :)
S6 may have had some degree of soap opera to it, but it felt right. Season 4 to me, while I still like it (especially after DVD viewings), feels odd and seregated, like the writers were decided what to do as they came about it. Personally, I love S6 - wonderfully dark. I like S4 - I just don't love it. I'm the same way with Buffy S4.
Hmm. I've read every comment so far re Buffy and Angel (we haven't yet had the chance to see Firefly in England, alas) and each comment has me agreeing. (I too loved Lizard's story, by the way.) I adore Buffy and every character in it - even the minor ones (I still mourn the Mayor to this day) and was originally a bit reluctant to watch Angel, fearing that it couldn't possibly match up to the Vampire Slayer. But "City of..." blew me away - the darkness, the sophistication, that zapping sunset/skyscraper scene edit that still makes my pulse race. Perhaps, as has been said before, Buffy is in my heart, but Angel inhabits my cool detached adult consciousness. So, no, I still can't decide. Both are glorious.
Damn this is tough. Buffy is my all time favourite show so I guess I should vote for it, as others have said I just consider Angel to be an extension of Buffy, but even if I manage to think of it separately, I still prefer Buffy. Firefly had such potential and was cut do so early I, like others before me, wish that we'd gotten a full run to be able to truely judge it's genius. So in theory I would have to go with Buffy simpley because of it's over all effect on me, hell without Buffy I would never have watched the others, Firefly because it was cancelled before it aired over here and so I wouldn't have want to get invested in something I knew was going to be unfinished. After all that though I voted for Firefly because it was lagging so far behind and I don't think it deserves to be overlooked like that.
we haven't yet had the chance to see Firefly in England

The entire run has been shown on the UK Sci-Fi channel multiple times - I believe it's currently showing for the fourth time, twice a day (Shindig and Safe today). I wouldn't expect it to ever appear on terrestrial TV though so go out and buy the boxset instead, or get it at
7 years of shows that I love - Buffy wins.

I love Angel and Firefly - Angel season 5 was excellent, it amazes me how great it was, Firefly was only around a short time (loved Out of Gas and Objects in Space!!!!) but for amount of quality that each show gives Buffy ran the longest and produced the largest number of quality hours of programing so it wins on that count.
I've got to go with Buffy.

Buffy was the first of the shows I saw, and I still have a lot of memories of watching it week in week out on BBC2 as they worked their way through the episodes from start to finish. It's the show that got me a bit obsessed with Joss, and it's the show that I used to talk about with friends at school every day. Seven years of just fantastic television as far as I'm concerned, and that's hard to beat.

So bare in mind that Angel and Firefly are close behind :). I loved Angel from start to finish as well and there's still loads of things I love about the show (Amy Acker springs to mind...) but, for me, it just felt a little too uneven in places. The first two seasons have a fantastic noir feel to them and handled Angel's inner struggle really well, but I kind of feel seasons three and four slipped up in places. I mean, I love both those seasons, they might actually be my favourites (largely due to Wesley), but there was just too much stuff in there which didn't seem to work. Cordelia going evil, the thing with Connor and the end of season four? Blergh. Kind of felt like they wrote themselves into a hole and quickly had to buy some things back.

Whether Angel is #2 or #3 though, I'm just not sure. With Firefly, Joss managed to put together a tightly woven arc which never slips up and is consistently excellent. I loved the characters, I loved the premise, I loved how we gradually learnt more about the world Joss created. I look forward to the film, but I'm still heartbroken we're never going to see these characters develop as much as we would have. You just can't do that kind of depth in films, especially not across nine characters. I'm tempted to say Firefly is #2 because of the consistency of it, but that doesn't seem fair considering they only did 13 episodes and Angel did 110.

Oh bollocks. I don't think it matters which order they come in, they're all in my Top Five Shows Of All Time anyway :)
I don't think it matters which order they come in, they're all in my Top Five Shows Of All Time anyway :)

Good point :)
I think Joss himself said it best: I designed Buffy to be an icon, to be an emotional experience, to be loved in a way that other shows canít be loved. Angel and Firefly are both terrific, but to me, Buffy will always be in a class of its own.
Its interesting to see the difference between the English language site and the Spanish Slayerverse site. At the moment Buffy is in the same 1% on both, while "Firefly" has only 1.6 of the vote in Spanish but 8.4 in the US/UK

Ooh and just wondering Caroline, without bein narky or anything, why my post was edited because it didnt seem to change unless i linked it after i had voted, therefore not allowing anybody else to vote?
I don't know from "best", I can only say about most loved. Buffy.
I don't think it matters which order they come in, they're all in my Top Five Shows Of All Time anyway.

For me, Top Three.

And four and five and beyond are waaaay down the road.

Just sayin'.
There were seven spelling and grammar mistakes in the post, Apocalypse.
Wow,thats a real pass the coffee and ciggies type question and i'm a tea drinking non smoker,which makes me think of Spikes gag about, cup of tea, cup of tea.....,and i think thats the answer to the question for me.
Buffy is still in my heart,not only for the big story,but for all those little things that i don't think will ever leave me.
So,the heart has it Buffy is No1
There are great parts of all 3, and it's very hard to choose among them. If I had to choose my favorite, it owuld probably be Buffy, entirely because Buffy felt the most complete.

It's 7 year run told one long, well-thought out story. Angel however ended early and left too many loose ends, not anyone but The WB's fault mind you, but it's complete run doesn't work quite as well for me. I would however say that Angel's quality was the most consistant. Although it's high points were never as good as Buffy, I could pick up almost any episode (with few exception) and have a wonderful time.

Firefly could have easily been the best, it's first year was way better than the first of both Angel and Buffy. It's characters and world were compelling and writing was consistantly strong. However, it did end a bit too early in it's run for me to say that it was the best.
I would add that there are, for my money, *no* truly bad Buffy episodes...some that are olympian in grandeur, others that were merely nice (and always with something wonderful) and all the others in between, in that "damn, this show is incredible" realm...Buffy, I mean.

Oh, and Angel, too.

Damn, Firefly, as well.

I give the nod to Buffy for longevity and for all the amazing characters.

I give the nod to Angel for the astonishing character development and daring plot development.

I give the nod to Firefly because it was, right out of the chute, better than the others.

I give the nod to...Joss, and his astounding band of writers and creative producers...TV is, as Newt Minow said 40 years ago, a vast wasteland, and much more so now than then, but my God, what a treasure of a wasteland that can contain these shows...
Angel. Characters, stories, the philosophy of the show ... everything.
I'm not sure what shows I would be watching 40 years ago, or 30 years ago, or even 20 or 15. The amount of television I've seen from before the 80s isn't exactly huge, but was it really better then? Was it really better in the 80s when the best programmes appear to be things like The A-Team and Knight Rider? (which I love, admittedly).

I guess I just don't agree with the notion that things are worse now than they've ever been. Because although we now have reality television spreading its hooks across the screen, we also have a plethora of intelligent shows that didn't and couldn't exist twenty years ago, and no there was no equivalent that I can see.
Oh Penis! Sorry but Spelling and Grammer not really my best of talents. And something I found out today (in a study of Room 101) that Seven is apparantly the best number to have. Well if i'm gonna have mistakes i might as well have get the best number

Actually there are seven spelling and grammar mistakes in the bit above. For all keeneyed readers who are bored and would like to play a game, please try and spot these. I may soon copyright this
Loving everyone's comments. The funny thing is this, whatever show I happen to be watchiing at the time, I'm thinking it's brilliant and it's the best. That's why it is so hard to pick because depending on whatever you're viewing you can see the greatness in it and totally be enthralled. I still say Buffy over the other two because Angel is it's spin-off with most of it's main characters extensions of BtVS and Firefly never had a chance to fly but it's really a fine line between them all for me. Firefly seemed to have a ton of potential and hooked me immediately and I'm still disappointed we didn't get many seasons of it. So it's really hard to say if it would've continued to be as good as it was. But from my past experiences with Joss' shows are that they get better and better. I know some think the last couple of seasons of BtVS weren't as good but I truly enjoyed them all. I think five is my favorite because of the introduction of Dawn and the wonderful storyline between her and Buffy, and Buffy's sacrifice in the end continues to leave me sobbing my eyes out (and I'm tearing up right now thinking of it). No show has ever brought me so much joy and sorrow, anger and esctasy, made me laugh out loud so many times and gasp and scream out. Two big moments that made me gasp and sit there stunned was Buffy having to stab Angel and send him to Hell and Caleb brutally gouging out Xander's eye!

These three shows are my top three shows ever and anything else I like is a distance fourth and below that. I take great joy out of rewatching each and every episode over and over again and hope and pray that we will someday have another chance at a Joss Whedon television creation.
Excellent comments all. I always hate trying to rate one of Joss' shows against another because they each take me to a different place. They each carry their own vibe and meaning to be taken as such by the viewer. And everyone's different with their views on the world and that's what makes Joss' stories so special. How do you feel?

My favorite is the one currently playing in the DVD player at the time. Today, that spanned all three series. I was feeling a bit down with the 'Serenity' delay so I decided to watch my favorites. And, as is always the case, I sat back and repeated,"What a wonderful show. Wow!". First up was 'Orpheus'. That moment when Angel falters and drinks from the shot coffee shop clerk....that scream of despair is haunting. Next up was 'Conversations with Dead People'. So many here. Guess the scene that rips me up the most is when Willow pleads for Tara not to cry as she herself is breaking down. Alyson and those huge eyes. I seem to recall Joss once said he always looked forward to Aly's crying scenes because she would always take the entire stage crew down in tears with her. Last was 'Objects in Space'. The "wow" moment is towards the end when River floats down to Mal and he catches her. She gives Mal that "Didn't I pull a neat trick" smile. Then Mal draws her close and gives her his true smile. For an instant, River's face changes as she realizes Mal had finally accepted her and what she was within his fold. When they begin to laugh together.....classic Joss moment. OK, I'll quit pulling on everyone's ear and crawl back under my rock.
Buffy. And that's gonna be the shortest response anyone will ever get outa me.
Honestly, this isn't close for me. AtS never really got to me -and I've never felt that it was the *best* (whatever that means) of the two Buffyverse shows - and FF just didn't have the opp to surpass it, much as I love it.

Buffy all the way.
Firefly. No question. I enjoyed Buffy, and really liked Angel, but Firefly did something neither of the others managed to.

(story time!)

I never saw Firefly on TV, due to my work schedule. But, my mother bought it for me for my birthday. I was pretty sick, and was going to put the first disc in to watch while I fell asleep. I watched the opening scene, figuring I'd take my glasses off during the credits and doze off. By the time you hear the guitar, as Mal watches the ships landing and laying waste to the fortifications, I was so hooked. No matter how many times I watch it, that shot breaks my heart. I watched the first two discs that night, took a night off so my girlfriend could catch up (though I watched the second disc with her) and finished the series on the third night. Then I began my quest to make more people watch Firefly.

I like the other two, but neither won me over as quickly and solidly as Firefly did.
BforBeth - rofl. :)
Many thanks, Grounded, for the tip on where to find Firefly. I hotfooted it to, and the DVD is winging its way to me as I speak. Since I'm not a nerdy techy-type (far from it!) I only have VHS still (I know, I know) so hit upon the killing-two-birds-with-one stone idea of buying Firefly for my nephew for Christmas. Quite apt, really, as a great Christmas memory a few years back is one of the nephew and I hiding out from a visit from the relatives (his relatives; not mine - I'm not that rude), both of us bundled in blankets with a plateful of meringues, watching Buffy videos, one after the other. Since then, I've rather associated Buffy with soft blankety goodness (not to mention the sweet-tooth aspect).

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