And I think she's right, the fight never ends, it was a great fight for a great show, thank you Joss and co.

SeanValen | December 21, 17:19 CET

She left out "Best Proof that the WB has lost its Mind" -- The cancellation of Angel and its replacement with The Mountain. But I guess that's too obvious.

Best Night of Television come January: Wednesday night's back-to-back combination of "Lost" and "Alias."

Can't wait.

Best Proof that not Everything Mark Burnett Touches Turns to Gold: The doomed and never aired "Commando Nanny."

Thank goodness the country was spared this one.

palehorse | December 21, 18:23 CET

Hmm...I might make an argument for the long-awaited showdown between Spike and Angel in Destiny as being the best fight. But that's just me.

[ edited by Rogue Slayer on 2004-12-21 20:58 ]

Rogue Slayer | December 21, 19:18 CET

Agree, palehorse...amazingly, "Commando Nanny" was baed on a true story.

I think the last fight got best fight props because, well, it was the last fight...and maybe because of the "slay the dragon" line, too.

Chris in Virginia | December 21, 20:45 CET

:) that scene kicked booty! way to go jeff and joss <3 because of that scene our show really went out with a bang instead of, yes, fading away.

MySerenity | December 21, 22:44 CET

“Hmm...I might make an argument for the long-awaited showdown between Spike and Angel in Destinyh as being the best fight. But that's just me.”

That came to my mind immediately when I saw best fight, so it’s not just you. It was brilliant all around.

It wasn’t Angel’s time to end, but “Not Fade Away” was certainly the way to go.

bloodflowers | December 21, 23:13 CET

I am still in awe over that episode...have watched again and again and again and it still amazes...too many favorite moments to begin to list...pretty much the entire thing is my favorite moment.

Chris in Virginia | December 22, 02:08 CET

Couldn't agree more with the NFA kudos. For an episode that had to prematurely tie up Angel's series-long arcs (possibly for good) and finish out the season with a satisfying climax that also left the door open for more in the future (hope springs eternal) in under 45 minutes, I don't know how a better balance could have been struck. I could take a little personal issue with certain things *cough*Wesley's death*cough*, but ultimately I remain amazed at how it managed to fulfill so many different criteria so successfully.

Now, about a post-NFA movie: Seriously, I'm patient as hell in general, and I know Joss has a thousand people pulling him in all directions to do amazing, marvelous things, but please, I pray he doesn't forget about Angel. Just one lil' ol' major motion picture penned by the master, with the cast I love and adore before they age out of the roles they made famous, that's all I ask.

Considering what was shown to be possible on TV with a limited budget (see "Apocalypse, Nowish" and "Waiting in the Wings"), can you imagine how visually stunning and powerful Angel could be on the big screen? Story with substance, and so very pretty! It makes me salivate just thinking about it, and it would be so incredibly gratifying to see Joss's vampires really show Hollywood how a modern take on the ancient mythology should be done.

Wiseblood | December 22, 03:33 CET

"it would be so incredibly gratifying to see Joss's vampires really show Hollywood how a modern take on the ancient mythology should be done. "

Exactly...I saw the TV previews of Van Helsing and knew immediately that I had precisely zero interest in it...

Chris inVirginia | December 22, 04:23 CET

Hmm...I might make an argument for the long-awaited showdown between Spike and Angel in Destiny as being the best fight. But that's just me.

I thought that was an excellent fight, but it did air in 2003, thus making it rather unsuitable for a "Best of 2004" list...

Gotta agree with all the kudos for "Not Fade Away". I was blown away by how well they managed to wrap it all up, bring every character full-circle and give them an amazing moment of connecting back to their roots, and make it thematically perfect. That ending was just about the most perfect ending I could imagine for the series, enough so that, much as I miss the Buffyverse, I actually found myself at peace with the ending of the series. I will never turn down a chance to see more from that universe and more from those characters, but that was such a perfect place to leave the characters, I refused to even read post-NFA fanfic for the longest time. Incredible finale.

teenes | December 22, 05:11 CET

Must give credit towards 'Not Fade Away' as well. Only Joss could wrap up so many loose threads in 41 minutes. Angel in knowing the fight for redemption never ends. Spike finally receiving credit for his poem. Illyria feeling the pain of human grief. Gunn returning to his roots by taking on a band of vampires. Conner finally appreciating his father's love. Wesley in......er......well, it's Joss' show. Somebody has to die. Great finale.

Madhatter | December 22, 15:26 CET

Count me in too! NFA is perfection. Actually I thought the whole of season 5 was excellent, so NFA was the icing on the cake. Can't wait for this to be out on dvd, although I am sad it will be my last season needed to have them all. I may have to start saving my pennies for Farscape, since I have read so many positive posts about that series and I have never seen it.

Passion | December 22, 17:37 CET

Much as I loved the final scene in 'Not Fade Away', the Angel/Lindsay sword fight in 'You're Welcome' is on a epic par with the best lightsaber battles in any of the Star Wars films.

Simon | December 22, 18:43 CET

Angel did fight scenes very VERY well. I think of great Angel fights I think of Angel vs. Faith in season 1. Everyone vs. Conner in A New World. Everyone vs. The BEast in Apocalypse Nowish. Angelus vs. Faith in release. Angel vs. Conner in Home (I know not a great fight but I loved the stinging dialogue. Angel vs. Lindsey in You're Welcome. Angel vs. Hamilton in Not Fade Away and finally Spike vs. Angel in Destiny.

Not to mention a dozen other little battles during the series.

I definately don't watch the show for cool fights, but it definately helps.

This topic just brought back a whole lot of wondeful Angel memories though, not just the fights but the whole series.

rabid | December 22, 19:19 CET

Loved your trip down memory lane Rabid, but would love to add the "flash forward" scene with Illyria when, in the future, she kills them all! All of the fight scenes with Illyria were fantastic! It would be hard to pick a "best" fight scene for Angel in it's final year but I'm leaning towards the final battle just because it was the last one (for now hopefully) and it ended the series in such a brilliant manner.

Firefly Flanatic | December 22, 22:24 CET

One of the very best fights ever was in Buffy, aeons ago, soon after she broke up with Parker. Spike had the ring of Amarra, and fought with her in daylight, taunting her every step of the way. Fabulously choreographed, and containing the shocking line about "what it takes to part the Slayer's dimpled knees". I tell you, I gasped.

SweetMarilyn | December 23, 02:38 CET

BEst Buffy fight for me handsdown was Angel vs. Buffy in Becoming part 2. That and possibly Faith vs. Buffy in Graduation day part 1.

rabid | December 23, 02:48 CET

Our shows had the best violence, didn't they? *happy sigh*

Agree with all the others mentioned previously, but I'll toss out a couple more. Angel vs. Lindsey in "To Shanshu in L.A." is still one of my absolute favorite fight scenes in a Joss show, evah -- plus bonus Angel vs. maggoty Vocah carnage! With Angel's signature long, billowy black coat a'flarin', the clever use of scythes (culminating in a pivotal hand dismem- berment complete with snappy sendoff -- "Don't believe everything you're foretold") and the backdrop of evil-Latin-ritual- with-Darla-reveal to come all make it a classic.

And then there's the subway train fight between Angel and James in "Heartthrob", which is also pretty memorable, if brief. Even though James folded quickly there near the end (getting in a good shot or two with a steel bench along with some choice jabs about Angel's love life), Angel gets major badass points for the creative use of crutches as deadly weapons. Watch that bit in slo-mo and ask yourself how many times they must have practiced that maneuver to make it look so smooth!

Wiseblood | December 23, 09:11 CET

Interesting how you diffentiate between "Angel" and "James" in this description. Does this mean you feel you know "James" more than "David"? I certainly do. It's interesting how proprietary one feels about the characters one feels closest to, such as how "Oz" becomes "Seth" in my mind automatically, whenever someone talks about him. Someone should write a paper! :)

aver | December 23, 11:11 CET

James was the name of a *character* in the episode "Heartthrob". James Marsters had nothing to do with it. ;)

lalaa | December 23, 11:38 CET

Wiseblood: I am so totally with you on everything you have said. Please, please lets have a movie. DB is up for it. We are up for it. What are we waiting for?

Joss should be a woman – he’d be better at multitasking :-)

miranda | December 23, 16:47 CET

Wiseblood: Not to mention the complex storylines that brought such violence to be. I love how Joss (and his writers) weaves an area of gray behind each character's motives. They're each justified in their actions, but only taken from their point of view. A perfect example was 'Selfless' when Buffy, Xander, and Willow are discussing Anya. Buffy is sadden, but she must slay this human killing demon. Xander loves said demon and thinks there's hope. And poor Willow's trapped in the middle with understanding Anya's anger, yet knowing it was wrong and powerless to stop it. Classic triangle. We saw much the same in both series. Buffy confronting Angel and Faith in 'Sanctuary'. 'Lies My Parents Told Me' with Giles, Buffy, and Spike. The list runs on. If I may speculate a bit, I think the same was building within 'Firefly'. I believe sparks were in the works for Mal, River, and Simon. OK, I'll stop running off my thoughts. Seems 'Lost' scored well on her best list as well.

Madhatter | December 23, 19:00 CET

Joss should be a woman – he’d be better at multitasking :-)

Well, you know ... he is pretty cool, for a guy. ;) Maybe we could grant him honorary chick status?

Wiseblood | January 06, 11:38 CET