I'd hope "A Hole in the World" is on there, as I think that's the best episode in Angel Season 5, and maybe the best Angel episode ever.

ringworm | January 20, 00:12 CET

Ringworm, I absolutely agree.

Melisande | January 20, 00:32 CET

It was the best as far as drama. I would have loved it had the whole Fred thing not happened :(

ShotgunWes | January 20, 00:49 CET

I actually liked the succeeding episode, "Shells," just a teensy bit better than "A Hole in the World" for some reason.

narky | January 20, 01:05 CET

Yeah, Illyria could've just as well taken possession of Harm or Cordy's body.

Storyteller | January 20, 01:09 CET

Eek, the thought of Charisma even attempting to act like Illyria made me throw up in my mouth a little. The part needed an actress with skill.

Melisande | January 20, 01:16 CET

Has any writer/producer/director/genius been listed more on thefutoncritic’s Top 50 Episodes than our man Joss? Since 2000, I count 17 (so far), including a Firefly episode that never aired on TV! Joss is just amazing. The most insanely brilliant person in the entertainment industry.

2000
#1 Buffy, Restless
#10 Angel, Five by Five
#20 Angel, Reunion

2001
#1 Buffy, The Body
#3 Buffy, Once More With Feeling
#14 Angel, That Vision Thing
#15 Buffy, Life Serial
#36 Angel, Billy

2002
#23 Firefly, Ariel
#33 Angel, Spin the Bottle
#35 Buffy, Normal Again
#42 Buffy, Conversations With Dead People

2003
#25 Angel, Peace Out
#32 Angel, Lineage
#36 Firefly, The Message (listed from the DVD release that year)
#50 Buffy, Chosen

2004 (so far)
#21 Angel, Smile Time

showgirl | January 20, 01:20 CET

Showgirl, thank you, I was just wondering where they had ranked other Whedon eps. Chosen barely squeaked in... yah, i guess that's right.

gingeriffic | January 20, 01:32 CET

Melisande, although I loved Amy’s portrayal of Illyria, I disagree with your appraisal of Charisma’s talent. Check out the Angel episodes listed by thefutoncritic: 3/2 - That Vision Thing and 4/6 - Spin the Bottle. She was wonderful in both. Although the character she played in Buffy and Angel wasn’t - by definition - terribly deep, I think Charisma did a terrific job with self-centered Cordy, trying to grow up Cordy, possessed by evil Cordy, and mature, selfless Cordy.

showgirl | January 20, 02:02 CET

I think Amy was a good choice...it allowed her to go outside of the mousy Fred. And as an actress...it's always fun.

Charisma got to play the evil nasty Cordy, and then the not so horrible version...then to the possessed baby-carring Cordy.

Rogue | January 20, 02:19 CET

Rogue, You’re perfectly right. Charisma is a fine actress, and Amy was the perfect choice for Illyria.

Storyteller, How could Illyria take over Cordy's body if she was already dead? And could you seriously imagine Harmony being Illyria. That thought just makes me laugh. I mean, Mercedes is also a good actress, but the only Angel female character who could pull of Illyria was Fred, but that’s just me!

BufSlyAngel | January 20, 02:30 CET

It couldn't have been Harmony storywise. Illyria was to be a character that wasn't strictly an enemy, but she only existed because she'd killed one of the people the gang cared about the most. Taking over Cordy's body would have had a similar effect, but we never found out what happened to Cordy's body after she pulled the curtain around it in the hospital.

I thought Charisma was a great actress, but I'm not sure if it was the character, or the writing or Charisma that made posessed Cordelia just seem well, crap to me. It's probably the character I didn't like, as I didn't like Jasmine either, but Gina was great in Firefly.

Ghost Spike | January 20, 02:43 CET

I love Charisma, i think she is a talented actress, who played the "bitch" better then most anybody i seen on tv. The early years you hated but liked her on Buffy. She didnt play evil Cordy too well IMO cause she was almost 9 months pregnant. I just don't like when people bash her. I just dont know if Amy could have pulled off being 8 months pregnant and being evil Fred.

Anyways is it me or Harmony looked hotter then herself as Illyria in that pic.

Gunn 2 N's | January 20, 02:55 CET

I thought the point of Knox's plan as Illryia's priest was to see that she had a perfect vessel to inhabit, and because of his feelings for Fred, or maybe more objectively based on other criteria we don't know about, he decided Fred was that vessel. (Did anyone else ever get the impression that Illyria was once a male in her previous physical incarnation? If I'm not wrong in remembering, 'she' at least once referred to herself as having been a "king".)

Under the assumption that "perfect" meant a living body, I never considered that a vampire body could have been the vessel. The strength and invulner-ability to ordinary trauma would have been useful to her, no doubt, but then there's the whole issue of being both soulessly, inherently evil and saddled with an immense craving for blood. Not being able to go into the sun might have also cramped her style just a little bit. ;)

I thoroughly enjoyed CC as S1-early S3 Cordy -- even loved, at times -- but Cord-evil? I couldn't get past her line readings in almost every scene, the almost Snidely-Whiplashesque "oooh, I'm ba-a-ad" delivery and smirking lack of subtlety. But maybe that's just me?

[Note: I should note that the fault of the line readings may have been with the direction the actors were being given, or something else I can't imagine. But I still didn't feel Cord-evil's delivery was a good fit with the 'vibe', for lack of a better term, of that arc. It always felt too overplayed to me, and that's something I wasn't used to from Angel. DB's S4 Angelus also bothered me, and it may be the same kind of direction issue.]

[Edited again to add that I forgot to praise the puppety wondrousness that is "Smile Time". If Ben Edlund never picks up another pen in his life, he's still a god for creating this episode. So amazing. I would never have thought in a million years that a little felt guy could make me cry.]

[ edited by Wiseblood on 2005-01-21 03:11 ]

Wiseblood | January 20, 03:08 CET

Just reading all this brings it back so hard....I miss Joss....I miss his shows....I miss the debates and the excitement. I know that Serenity is coming and that will be SO great but really, Joss - I miss you.

Poster Boy | January 20, 12:20 CET

Actually, I think much more needs be said...when I first heard that there was going to be an Angel episode where he turns into a puppet I was horrified...well, worried, at least. Boy, was I wrong...the whole thing was brilliant, start to finish...especially the closing scene with Fred and Wes and "Self Esteem is for Everybody"...they took an already hysterically funny moment and morphed it into something inexpressibly touching and moving...how the hell do they do that?

And, agree that if you put Smile Time on the list you have to include Hole in the World. The scene where Wesley reads to Fred is one of the most heartrending moments in the entire Jossverse.

Chris in Virginia | January 20, 20:26 CET

Smile Time I can handle. But AHiTW - please don't make me heave. A terrible main-plot with Wesley and Fred. Where the hell did that spring from? I was completely and utterly unmoved with the death-bed scene and at times almost embarrassed for AA/AD - Feinbaum, AA's relentless writhing, AD's flat delivery, atrocious dialogue. Spike and Angel's scenes at the "deeper well" was the only redeeming mention.

Thierry | January 21, 03:14 CET

Well, tell us how you really feel Thierry. I completely disagree with your opinion of that episode, and had the exact opposite reactions to those you described, but that's entirely okay.

No one need start heaving - unless the heaving involves a totally different, more pleasant scenario of course. :)

Angela | January 21, 03:27 CET