Buffy Season One for $14.99 again on Amazon.
I know this has happened before, but this is such a great deal it seemed appropriate to post (tip of the hat to one of my DC Buffy Meetup pals for the heads-up.)
Also, I need some help: I usually (strongly) urge skeptics to watch Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Harvest at one sitting as a great introduction to the Buffyverse. However, I have one especially thick-headed (if otherwise brilliant) colleague who tells me she will commit to just *one* episode and then will either become a convert or I will never mention Buffy to her again.
Any suggestions? I am torn between about 50 or so episodes.
January 26 2005
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SoddingNancyTribe | January 26, 20:46 CET
Caroline | January 26, 20:53 CET
phlebotinin | January 26, 20:57 CET
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2005-01-26 19:00 ]
phlebotinin | January 26, 20:59 CET
bloodflowers | January 26, 21:58 CET
dcubed | January 26, 22:22 CET
Chris in Virginia, you're correct in posting this great price deal again. People, if you can afford to do so, please buy a DVD set and donated it towards your local library. Trust me, they will not set on the shelf long.
Madhatter | January 26, 22:29 CET
I dont think OMWF is a good starter episode. Unless the person is a fan of musicals. I think you need to understand the characters to really get that ep, but that's just my opinion. Does anyone disagree?
But yeah, Hush, definitely. If someone is that skeptical, you gotta bring in the big guns. Someday I plan on making a last ditch effort to recruit my friend, who thinks Buffy is kind of silly (although she does admit that she probably doesn't get it because she never watched it from the beginning), using Hush. Although, I might also use OMWF on her, since she is already familiar with some of the characters (her girlfriend is a fan).
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-01-26 21:30 ]
electricspacegirl | January 26, 23:13 CET
BlindHawkeyes | January 26, 23:20 CET
For me OMWF is a beautiful shiny treasure that is most rewarding and most wonderful to those who are already intimately familiar with our characters; not to say it would be absolutely wasted on novices - there's so much to admire, - but it should be a reward for those who have invested some time and thought in the show. Otherwise, I fear it would be too easy for someone to dismiss it as "fun" and "clever," without really getting what lurks beneath. Yes, I am somewhat compulsive, and I am seeing someone about it . . . ;)
and electricspacegirl seems to share my opinion, I'm happy to say.
(added) BlindHawkeyes: As far as Firefly goes, I've only ever recommended starting at the beginning, with Serenity. Just because it's such a beautifully-paced and luscious introduction to the characters and exposition of the world. The opening battle scenes are a bit off-putting to some, but give it 20 minutes, and most have been reeled in, flopping and gasping like [insert fish of choice here].
The other early episodes aren't quite as sharply written, IMO, and the later ones, such as Ariel, Out of Gas, The Message, Objects in Space, deserve a little introduction, just as OMWF does in BtVS. That's my take on it, anyway.
And I'm totally enjoying the fact that electricspacegirl and I are continuing to agree in leapfrogging posts . . . :)
SoddingNancyTribe | January 26, 23:24 CET
With Angel, either City of or To Shanshu in L.A.
SNT, thank you, but you said it much better than I. I agree, OMWF would be easily dismissable as cute but silly to the untrained eye.
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-01-26 21:29 ]
electricspacegirl | January 26, 23:28 CET
Djungelurban | January 26, 23:29 CET
And I will echo Madhatter's suggestion that you buy a DVD and donate it to your local library. We have hundreds of holds on our copies! (Thanks Madhatter!)
Lioness | January 26, 23:29 CET
BlindHawkeyes | January 26, 23:39 CET
This one surprised me. She doesn't watch any TV (except Six Feet Under) and she never has the patience for TV watching (except Six Feet Under). But I gave her my spiel ("Joss created Buffy as a feminist statement, he wanted the blond girl in the alley to fight back, Buffy's iconic, it's an epic story about female empowerment, etc.") and that's what really interested her. I loaned her season 1 and sent her on her merry way. 2 seasons later, now she compares Buffy to her love for the Harry Potter books, which she can't put down until she's finished with them.
And now it's so much fun to watch Buffy with her and talk about it. She's my best recruit, hands down. I'm quite proud.
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-01-26 22:07 ]
electricspacegirl | January 26, 23:53 CET
I think it depends on the person, really. But after reading your posts, I'd agree that for many (if not most) OMWF perhaps may not be the way to go. And SNT, I like your emphasis on earning that episode. The same goes for The Body, in my opinion. And The Gift.
I agree wholeheartedly as well with the Angel/Firefly suggestions you both gave.
phlebotinin | January 27, 00:02 CET
This was also the time (2001) when Buffy began on FX. I can say that for me, getting hooked on Buffy started with OMWF. I taped it and ended up watching it a few times in only a week or so and my wife thought that I was obsessed with SMG or something. I wasn't -- she doesn't really do anything for me, but I just loved the show. After that, I read every episode guide from Ep 1 on to get myself up to date, mostly at Buffguide.com, and also taped and watched all the episodes on FX.
After a full year of growing with the show, and searching more and more for information and a place to read about and talk about the Whedonverse I landed here in September of 2002 (thankful to be away from the bile at TwOP), and fell for the format and people here as well.
Long story short, I would have to say that OMWF is a pretty f-ing good jumping off point, although when my wife watched it she wasn't hooked. Of course, she did eventually magically and surprisingly become an Angel fan down the stretch (surprise, turns out she's a Spike fan), which I found out when suddenly she bit my head off for erasing an ep only I had watched off the DVR.
"You erased it? I hadn't seen it yet!"
(thinking) When the hell did you become a fan?
"My bad, I'll save all of 'em next time."
And the rest is history.
brother_grady | January 27, 00:06 CET
Chris in Virginia | January 27, 00:58 CET
Regarding Firefly -- I sent my brother the series DVDs for Christmas. He had never heard of the series, and called me wondering why I would send it to him. I explained that I thought we had similar tastes and that he might enjoy it. He gave it a try -- started from the beginning -- and watched the entire set in a two-day period. He loved it. Another convert. And he immediately turned around and shared his set with friends. More converts. And, of course, more tickets for Serenity. So I would have to agree that people new to the series should start at the beginning.
palehorse | January 27, 00:59 CET
Pretty much the perfect stand-alone episode, and I often refer to it as the "perfect" Buffy episode. It's got all the hallmarks of the series. Humor, horror, character development (in the space of that hour, the roots of the Tara/Willow relationship are actually set, not to mention the Anya/Xander stuff, Buffy/Riley, etc), thematic resonance, the genre shifts, really, it's got it all.
And, ditto to the Angel/Firefly suggestions...
k8cre8 | January 27, 01:03 CET
Love, love, love the musical but as SNT said, that's too good a treat to show so early. It is much more fun to watch that if you know the backstory of the characters and what's going on in Buffy's life.
Firefly Flanatic | January 27, 01:41 CET
But that one thing always brought me up short. Nope! Got to finish season 5! You just cannot see OMWF without seeing The Gift first.
She's almost there... can't wait!
Willowy | January 27, 02:01 CET
Well, it sure doesn't hurt to try it. I just think that when first viewing the Buffy/Angel tragic lovestory, you need to get in earlier, for it to have the necessary impact. This is coming from someone who watched season 3 before seasons 1 and 2, and boy, I'm still kicking myself for that. I did, however already know the basic plot twists, as a late bloomer coming in to the show during season 7. But my journey through Buffy seasons 1-6 was retroactively spoiled, and I'll always wish I had been one of those people who got in on it in the very beginning.
electricspacegirl | January 27, 02:08 CET
For a funny episode to hook them, I always loved "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered". One of my all time favorite humorous (and Xander) episodes. And I'm still "Blwessels" cause it is my name!
Firefly Flanatic | January 27, 02:20 CET
If I were picking two episodes, Hush is definitely one of them, but I might just start first with Welcome to the Hellmouth. You get that first introduction, and then moving directly to Hush gives you a glimpse of how the show evolves and grows. Some people have said to me that they are a bit put off by the thought of the first two seasons because of the age of the characters. So, you start with that, contrast it with Hush, and that may well show the person the reward for watching these characters grow.
I've thought about Something Blue before as a starter episode, but decided against it, because I just don't think a new viewer would get the all the funny out of Buffy/Spike, and the reaction of the others, without seeing at least some of the progression to that point.
Angela | January 27, 02:24 CET
BufSlyAngel | January 27, 02:40 CET
Chris in Virginia | January 27, 02:51 CET
If yes, you could skip a character brief, watch all of WttH, and then start Hush. Pause it at that hour mark and say, "Hour's up!". (Or don't and see if she notices.)
Angela | January 27, 02:57 CET
tnewebmaster | January 27, 05:09 CET
BufSlyAngel | January 27, 05:11 CET
Hey, I think Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest is a great introduction to the series. I love those episodes so much. I think the dialogue is really great and the energy is good. However, I will also say that a newbie may be put off by the bad special effects. The first season was a bit hokey with the SFX. I'd take that into consideration.
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-01-27 04:44 ]
electricspacegirl | January 27, 06:43 CET
However, when recruiting new fans, I like to put Welcome To The Hellmouth on, because it has all the exposition you need, the newbie doesn't feel out of the loop, and has usually watched a couple of episodes in the past and liked them, but now they might understand them even more.
I got my friend hooked on it on Monday, and we're now halfway through season 2. And she doesn't like anything! I honestly didn't expect her to like it, and just sort of put it on in the background, and mentioned "I'm just putting the first episode on in case your interested". It didn't take long. So maybe just tell them that it really gets much better after season 1 and they'll stay tuned.
Maybe if you find out the reason why the person your trying to introduce it to is not interested, you can judge by that. Do they feel like they don't understand anything? Put Welcome To The Hellmouth on. Do they think it's stupid? Put on Hush or The Body. I think if you can uncover the reason they don't want to see it, you can find something that will prove them wrong.
buffbuff | January 27, 07:09 CET
dottikin | January 27, 07:37 CET
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-01-27 06:44 ]
electricspacegirl | January 27, 08:40 CET
Hmm, I guess I missed that scene. I guess the FCC missed it too! ;^)
[ edited by Firefly Flanatic on 2005-01-27 06:49 ]
Firefly Flanatic | January 27, 08:48 CET
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-01-27 07:40 ]
electricspacegirl | January 27, 09:38 CET
There's so much Angel and Buffy, waking up (in Angel's bed), breaking up (in the sewers), and showing up (the prom, sporting a tux!). The accidental meet-up at the butcher shop couldn't be any cuter.
There's the Xander/Cordy stuff at April Fools, and the kind thing Xander does with the dress despite Cordy's venom. Rather than gloat, he understands her humiliation, and makes it better.
We get that great scene in Buffy's room with Willow, and when Buffy sobs into Willow's lap "Right now, I'm just trying to keep from dying..." , we feel her pain, and cry with her.
We get the focused, take charge Slayer, once she finds out what's going down. And the true essence of the girl, when she finally drags the last hellhound into the woods, pops open her valise, grabs her dress, and runs to fix her hair and join her friends. She's rewarded by the look of pride from Giles, the (highly unusual) recognition from all the Razorbacks in the form of her awesome Class Protector award (Jonathan!), and seeing her friends have a kick ass time.
There's my absolute favorite Giles line, and an incredibly bittersweet ending that speaks to the romantic in all of us. The use of Wild Horses by the Sundays is beautiful and appropriate.
I dare anyone with a beating heart to not come away from that episode touched, whether you know any backstory or not.
I'm going to go watch it now.
Willowy | January 27, 09:46 CET
I think a lot of the romantic and tragic highs in season 2 (and 3) had been much less soul wrenching to watch had I known that Buffy'd have a spanking new boyfriends in season 4 (not that I disapprove of Riley - I just wouldn't want to have met him before saying goodbye to Angel).
sasja | January 27, 12:44 CET
And while I like "The Prom", 3/4 of the impact is based on all the stuff B/A had to go through to reach a mature resolution. Joyce's speech to Angel precipitating his decision doesn't make sense without explanation, and then you'd be spoiling them for one of the most important and wrenching things in all the Buffyverse, when Buff had to send Angel to hell. And that would be wrong, to paraphrase Faith-in-Buffy.
dottikin | January 27, 13:20 CET
Madhatter | January 27, 15:44 CET
So if I started with "Hush" I would just continue with "Doomed". It picks up where "Hush" left off...exactly. It is a well written episode and it gives the newbie a chance to continue to learn about the characters hopefully peaking their interest to watch the season from the beginning.
Personally I really love season 4 - I find it it the season I go back to the most, I have heard all the arguments about season 4's arch not being very good but I love many of the episodes - Harsh Light of Day, Pangs, Something Blue, Hush, Doomed, A New Man, Faith cooming back, Superstar, Yoko Factor I loved the Initiative and the new relationships of Buffy/Riley and Willow/Tara. It's just a great season IMO
Passion | January 27, 16:07 CET
Same follows with Firefly. I bought the DVD boxset for my Buffy-loving nephew for Christmas (as I don't have a DVD player myself, I thought it the perfect gift!) And there we were on Boxing night, watching episode after episode, each one followed by one of us saying "Another one?" "Go on then!". Only strained eyeballs and the demolition of the turkey sandwiches forced us to stop. Wonderful.
SweetMarilyn | January 27, 17:48 CET
I've found, with few exceptions, if newbies (hate that word) don't understand something said (unless its a huge plot point, then I'm compelled to explain), they just gloss over it, then pick it up on repeated viewings.
OT: Love what Joyce is wearing in this episode. The first and only time. (Although that Juice Newton coat WAS kinda fly... ;))
Willowy | January 27, 18:22 CET
Dana5140 | January 27, 19:48 CET
It's true, newbies do gloss over things they don't understand. I certainly did. I watched random episodes from season 4 and 5 in syndication before I really started watching. If I was watching with someone (my brother) and had a question I'd just ask him, since he was more familiar with the show. I still fondly remember watching Hush for the first time with him, asking why The Gentlemen came to Sunnydale. "Because Sunnydale is on the Hellmouth." "What's a hell mouth?" Ah, those were the days...
electricspacegirl | January 27, 20:30 CET
If Chris in Virginia's friend is already resistant in some way to watching BtVS, it would clearly be helpful to find out why, then tailor the hour to that concern. So, as buffbuff said, if they've tried and failed to get into it midway through, start at the beginning. That's the approach I usually favor, although I can't help but feel that if the person in question has seen bits of early BtVS and been scornful, that just wouldn't work. I love Season One, but I know people who tried it and didn't watch any more. Hush is the one for people who *think* they know what it's all about, but don't really. It'll knock their cotton-whites off, plus they really don't need any background, and it doesn't spoil anything - OK, you see Riley, but that doesn't hint at the Buffy/Angel past, and the meeting of Willow and Tara couldn't possibly mar the Willow-Xander-Buffy-Angel or Oz-Willow-Xander-Cordelia couplings of the first 2 seasons.
sasja: it sounds funny, but I actually consider Prophecy Girl and Angel to be more spoilery than Hush. I think that's because Hush is not a "revelation" episode (except perhaps in hinting at Willow's future with Tara) but a "character" episode. Certainly themes arise that will be developed later, but there's no great shock. If you show Angel first, you lose that oomph moment when he turns around in vamp-face and Buff screams, which, to me, sets up the whole Buffy-Angel relationship dynamic right there. (And, yeah, I suppose most people by now know that Angel is a vampire; even so, I just loaned Season One to friends, friends who watch a fair amount of TV, and that part took them utterly by surprise . . . ) Prophecy Girl is better, but even so, you've given up the Angel is a vampire shock, you've weakened Buffy's torment of "doing her duty as the slayer v. wanting to go to the dance and be a normal girl", and you've taken away the wonderful denouement of the entire season, in which the tone of the show very palpably shifts to a deeper and darker place.
Willowy: I personally adore The Prom, and I don't find it quite so spoilery. Still, I think I'd rank it with OMWF as a reward episode. Buffy has spent much of the first 3 seasons feeling as though she is carrying the world on her shoulders, that she is totally unappreciated, and she just wants to do normal things. See her outburst to Jonathan in Earshot, for example. In this episode, for just once, as Giles says, she finds a tiny moment of happiness. I think you gotta feel her pain first so that her pleasure acquires importance and meaning. And makes me all tingly. (Now, does that make me a sadist? Don't answer that . . .)
Sorry to go on - just really enjoying the discussion. :)
SoddingNancyTribe | January 27, 20:38 CET
Also thought of 'Earshot'. Wonderful episode. So ironic it aired (or not) when it did. It held a positive message and I think it's a shame it didn't play in that time.
As for 'Angel', what about 'Waiting In The Wings'? There's a few moments such as the threesome love trilogy between Wes, Fred, and Gunn. But, there's some stand alone. OK, I'll hush now.
Madhatter | January 27, 21:29 CET