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February 05 2005

(SPOILER) Jeff Mariotte to Write IDW's Angel: The Curse. "IDW Publishing returns Angel to comics in Angel: The Curse, the first five-issue Angel miniseries that sees him going it alone. Angel is on the run in a mysterious forest in Romania, searching for the Gypsy clan that cursed him so many years ago."

This sounds awesome! IDW seems to be very hit and miss, hopefully this will be a hit.
I like the plot.

But, this will be the continuation of NFA? Only flashbacks..?

Any news of Joss or another ME writer?

I donīt like different covers, with different styles each other.

[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2005-02-05 22:03 ]
So if this is set after season 5....I get a 'Zeppo' feeling--there's a really interesting story going on somewhere else.
"This sounds awesome"

Hm I wish I could share that enthusiasm but 'defending the villagers against local evil local warlord' sounds like 80% of all westerns/B-action movies of the last 40 years. It obviously depends on how it is worked out but as a basic plot structure, it feels very old.

And I'm wondering why Angel would try this now? Buffy has someone else and throughout the last 5 years he never thought of going to the gypsies for this. I hope that's explained and not just taken for granted because it's part of the character that he's cursed and therefore would want it removed. Please have it make sense.

And I have a feeling they're going to go out of their way to not mention what happened to the others, or how Angel survived. But couldn't they toss at least just one other character in there?

The whole thing with stories that take place AFTER the show ended is that you can finally do real stories that are important to the continuity, and not just the 'this takes place in between episodes and doesn't really affect a bloody thing' type stories they were forced to do in the earlier comics.

But this just sounds like the type of plot they could just as easily insert into any other point in Angel's timeline of the past 5-6 years. 'Yeah this is after Buffy S4 and Angel S1", or "Oh takes place before he went to that monestary", etc. etc.
I agree, EdDantes - I was hoping they'd follow the season 6 guidelines that have been mentioned before. Although Jeff did say in one post that there will be flashbacks to the other characters.
I thought they were going to do a continuation of NFA first?
I get the feeling that they are going to tell a story about Angel that is going on in the present and have flashbacks to what happened to the rest of the characters. Angel probably will not be the only character because he syas that he has free reign to use all the characters. He also says that Joss is giving him direct input so maybe after this mini-series we will get to know what happened in the alley because he speaks about how they have plans to use the other characters in other comics and one shots. An Illyria & Wes comic anyone?
How far apart are comic mini-series published? Will it be one issue a month or something like that? If it is that means that they have long term planns for the Angel comic franchise. I'm still holding on to those Angel TV movies, because David Boreanaz said that he would be willing to do voiceovers for the Buffy Animated series. So why not do live action TV movies?
"I'm still holding on to those Angel TV movies, because David Boreanaz said that he would be willing to do voiceovers for the Buffy Animated series. So why not do live action TV movies?

DB has said repeatedly that he would only be interested in an Angel theater movie. He had no interest in doing TV movies. He may change his mind in the future, who knows, but he's said this quite clearly.

And even if they do give some flashbacks and bits about the other characters in this upcoming comic, I still would like to see where Angel's sudden motivation for looking up the gypsies comes from. I'd say that Buffy season 3 would've made a lot more sense for that idea....
I know that he said repeatedly that he would only do theater movies, but isn't TV cartoons a step down from TV movies. My thoughts were maybe he changed his mind. You never know.
Well I have to admit after the big show down in the alley way, I wasn't expecting to see the first post series finale set in Romania. Well to tell the truth, I had no idea how they were going to write stories after the events in the alleyway. So I'm looking forward to seeing what Jeff will come up with.

And very grateful that's there no mention of Slayers descending from the rooftops to save Angel and co.
Simon, why not? You have something against slayers?;-) I agree it is the easiest way out but valid nonetheless.
I'm all for flashback comic stories, but I want NFA to be left as is in my mind.

Lioness, I agree with Simon about the lack of slayers. I don't have anything wrong with them, but I think its same same principle that Angel didn't help Buffy and the gang in Chosen. Its two different shows and I don't think other characters from a different show should be responsible for the end of the apoclypse. Yes, Angel gave Buffy the amulet, but in the end, the Buffy gang started and finished the fight. Btvs and AtS have two different ideas/themes that the show portrays. Although Buffy can't be summed up in one sentence, the premisis is that Buffy is all about a girl who was chosen to do sometime that others probably didn't believe she could do. The theme of Angel is both the process of redemption and fighting the good fight. that's why i liked the end of angel. The gang went out fighting, just like they always did. If all the sudden the slayers entered the alley and killed all the demons I think it would ruin the purpose of the finale and the entire show.
Slayers descending from roof tops is just too cheap a get-out to solve the problem the gang found themselves in in the closing moments of the series, the season 6 premiere would have done something much better than that.

And, Angel wouldn't want to reverse the curse, his curse is his soul. Or has something so completely horrible happened that he'd rather be Angelus rather than Angel.

I still don't think the fact that it's rumored David Boreanaz may do the Angel voiceover in Buffy Animated will have any effect on whether or not he does an Angel TV movie. It's easy to do a voiceover, doesn't take much time, doesn't have to learn lines, you just sit there and read (granted there's probably a bit more than that). I don't agree that an animated series is a step down from a TV movie either, if you think of celebrities that do voices on shows like The Simpsons and King of the Hill, some of them would never do a TV movie, but a cartoon is different.
Yeah no, Slayers saving the day would be a bit of an insult to the AtS characters. It's perfectly valid and plausible within the 'verse, but Angel was it's own show with it's own characters and themes, and to then just be saved by a bunch of

"And, Angel wouldn't want to reverse the curse, his curse is his soul. Or has something so completely horrible happened that he'd rather be Angelus rather than Angel."

I assume they mean he just wants the 'happiness-clause' removed. Which I still say he could've tried ages ago if he thought that was an option...
I always wondered why (surely she was powerful enough the second time) Willow never removed the happiness clause.
I'm dying to know what happened to Gunn, Spike and Illyria as well as Angel, after the events NFA. I thought that that would be the initial focus of the first story. This direction is a surprise. I guess I'm just being too impatient, and all will be revealed in time. With Joss having an input, it should be good !
I thought that curse was irremovable. Thatīs the reason why Willow didnīt do that with him. Iīm wrong?

This mini-series must explain us many things (iīm agree with the "no-potentials helping" idea).

I totally agree with you. Not to fade away was a great episode with a very fitting end. On the other hand, I really don't think they would survive the attack without outside help.
hmm... this sounds great - and i'm sure with Joss' involvement that this romanian storyline has direct links to NFA's climax - we just have to wait and see why and how it fits into the story

and can i ask why everyone is talking about Angel trying to remove the curse? It doesn't state that at all in the synopsis - it just says that he is searching for the clan - the last setence is "Angel is forced to take a stand, and the resulting conflict may well doom any hope Angel has of ever reversing the curse", but that doesn't mean that Angel's intial plans were to go to the gypsies and try and remove the curse

[ edited by aapac on 2005-02-06 02:26 ]
I don't think Buffy would have helped Angel, based on the message she sent him via Andrew; she made it clear all the Scoobies didn't trust him anymore because of his involvement with W&H. Her life had diverged from his, and I think it was Angel's path to figure out how to get out of that alley on his own.

I remain convinced that Illryria would have been able to recharge her power by accessing the pocket universe through the Mutari generator (which the boys had ample time to secret under or inside the Hyperion before they took on the Black Thorn), and that with her time travel ability she could have brought Wes back, saved Gunn, and then taken them all into an alternate dimension to escape and regroup. But that's just me. :)

Romania, looking for gypsies isn't exactly where I'd picture Angel post-NFA ... but then I'm not a vampire cursed with a soul, so what do I know from how a dead guy wants to spend his time?
NFA was a great ending, but who wants an ending?
The gypsy part could have to do with Angel threatened by Buffy's relationship with The Immortal and after coming near death death in the alley decides he wants to be with her before she dies (again).

[ edited by charisma on 2005-02-06 02:33 ]
What I wanna know is, did he slay the dragon?

Also, I don't agree that the Slayer's help would have been a bad thing. I think it could have been powerful and poetic in Joss' capable keyboard.
If the Slayers come in and save Angel and the gang I will be extremely pissed off. It wouldn't make sense. They wouldn't help save Fred in Shells, so why would they come and save everyone else. The Slayers can go screw themselves.
How did this turn into a Fang Gang vs. Slayers shoot-out? Gotta love the passion being brought to the table, but let's take a breath, people.

IMO, the best resolution to Not Fade Away is the one that you imagine for yourself. I'd prefer never to hear anything canonical on the subject at all.
ShotgunWes, that's too harsh. Its because of the Slayer (in Joss Whedon's vision) that we even have this board. Chill.
I agree, SoddingNancyTribe! I fanwanked myself a terrific resolution to NFA, and am quite content with it. I expect that any explanation of how-he/they-got-out-of-that-alley is going to disappoint or annoy a significant percentage of the fans, so why not just leave it up to us to wank our own outcome?
It wasn't the slayers that refused to help Angel and Fred in "Shells", it was Giles, who from the side of the conversation that we heard, was'nt interested in anything Angel had to say.
Okay, this is the way i see it.

Giles, Buffy and the Scoobies had every right to be worried about what Angel was doing running Wolfram & Hart. Just because we, as fans, were well aware that that he had only the best motivations at heart doesn't mean that it was so clear to anyone who didn't have the inside information on what was going down. Basically nobody should have been surprised that Buffy was being very cautious when it came to Angel's choice. It's not as if he went out of his way to explain everything to her, at least not as far as we saw anyway.

All that said, things changed towards the end of the series. The fact is that even we, the viewers, were kept in the dark about why Angel was doing what he was doing. From the moment he received the vision from Cordy he was making plans that nobody, us included, were aware of until the end of Power Play.

My point being that, given everything he arranged and put into action secretly, who is to say that he hadn't been in touch with Buffy prior to Not Fade Away. It is reasonable to assume that he would have wanted a second front, should things with the Senior Partners get out of control. He obviously assumed that all of the SP's hordes would be sent after them once they killed the Circle, maybe this was what he wanted. Maybe by waiting in that alley that night he was intentionally drawing all the demonic army of the SP's together into one place in order to ambush them with an awaiting army of hidden slayers that he and Buffy had arranged together.

To me that isn't about taking something away from what Angel was accomplishing. He wouldn't have been begging on his knees for Buffy to save his ass. He would have been working together with a trusted ally to bring down as many of the agents of the Senior Partners as possible. Why would he sacrifice himself and his friends in a lost cause when he was well aware that he had an army of demon killers at his disposal if he just picked up the phone and called Buffy?

Asking Buffy for help wouldn't diminish Angel as a hero but ignoring an asset like the slayer army when taking on some of the most powerful demons the world has ever faced kinda would. ;)
On board with the "leave it to your own imagination". Far more fun. I do have my "what happened to them" moments and occasionally think I wanted a more clear cut ending, but they are few and far between. The ending was fantastic - and I can now dream up any number of outcomes, depending on my mood.

Not thrilled with the concept of the comic, but not sure I have any interest in offshoots such as these at all. It's a shadow of the real thing to me, which is probably a bit unfair, I know.
"I really don't think they would survive the attack without outside help. "

I always did figure they could've escaped somehow. Via the sewers maybe. But the whole point of the scene seemed to be they weren't even going to try so,I don't know. What was Joss' original plan? He was planning on S6 so....what did he have in mind? Will that be used?

Still, I never expected the new comics to start right there in the alley, but, like I said, this seems like a bit of a throwaway plot that they could have done at any time.

I hope they pick a good artist.
Why would you want to leave it to your imagination when there is an option of hearing more of the story? If you don't want to watch the show anymore (or read) then don't, but don't make it a fan consensis that we don't support more of the 'verse playing out. A lot of the fans (the ones who still matter) are going to be reading these and if the writers look at this site and see people don't want more then they won't make more.
I for one am looking forward to these comics if they are canon.

[ edited by charisma on 2005-02-06 05:23 ]
Well, i think Angelīs ending was perfect. Better alone.
But if Joss really want to continue, itīs because he has more to tell, so i will trust in him.

I hope that Joss is really interested, and he will be really involved with these comics.
charisma: I prefer to leave it to my imagination because I (and perhaps I'm in the minority here) believe that the ending of NFA was beautiful. Joss knew it was the final episode, and that ending is how he chose to leave it. That's all.

As far as any "fan consensus" goes, - if the opinions of 3 or 4 people on one site can be called a consensus, - I'd love to believe that my opinion could carry such weight with writers (not mention with those who possibly matter more, i.e. the folks with money). But I don't and it doesn't.

(Not sure what "the ones who still matter" means, but I'm hoping one thing it doesn't mean is that my enjoyment of the ending of NFA and my satisfaction in leaving Angel's story there somehow relegates me to a lesser status of fan.)
I say better to have the comics out there, for people who want to read them, if you want to keep the ending in your head, you don't need to pick up the comics, but many others might, some people don't consider comics as official as a live action show, some people love a read, so either way, it's best to have the comics out ,as the option to read more angel stories is there, and that's the sensible thing.
I totally agreed with Giles for not helping. It was damn hard, and part of me was pissed about it as well. Giles became more and more that what he despised so much: a Watcher of the old Council. But, let's face it, Angel was *extremely* lucky that their venture only killed Fred; it could easily have been hundred of thousands - if not the world. Illyria was like a lethal virus and her army was gone.

Angel and his gang took the risk and outside help on that moment could be devastating in unforseen ways. It wouldn't surprise me that W&H would love to get their hands on Willow for example.

This is why their final fight was so fitting: taking out as many as you can without endangering anybody else.

And oh, why killing off Lindsey and let Harmony go?
Harmony was supposed to be comic relief. And Lindsey upped the body count.
Well, I can understand that he let Harmony live, with him being a vampire himself and all.
But, Lindsey? Really, the scene where Lorne shoots him cold blooded in the chest was shocking to me. More than Wesley's death. I can never watch Lorne in the wame way ever again. And wasn't he suppose to be comic relief too?
And on the written front for Angel, has anyone noticed that the section for Angel books has nothing at all due for print after the Casefiles v.2 (which came out in December 2004) whilst the Buffy section is already up to August 2005 with a book roughly every two months? No more Angel novels but Angel comics instead maybe?
I think there are different levels of canon here... considering this looks to have an official seal with it, it can be said to be what "really happens" for now... but the official story comes through a visual medium - if Joss and the actors were to come back to the story and negate these comics, than that's fine by me
What about Cordy and the Powers That Be intervening and saving Angel. It may be a possibility since it was them that put Angel back on the right path.... just a thought.
Silver Bullet Comicbooks have picked up the story. Nothing new really, just nice to see word getting out.
I consider anything Joss is connected to (as in 'actually aware of/has some input in/gives stamp of approval') canon, no matter what the medium is. Since he's not been invovled in (or apparently, is even knowledgeable about) the stories of the novels as far as I know, I consider them all expensive fan fiction. (Which incidentally is also the quality a lot of them are at)

I can also consider stuff from other Buffy writers as canon in the same way. Jane Espenson's comic about the Mayor's spirit is an example, as well as the TotS / TotV books. If Joss is in on this as a consultant, or whatever, I can consider it canon, but I hope it will be good!

What about Cordy and the Powers That Be intervening and saving Angel. It may be a possibility since it was them that put Angel back on the right path.... just a thought

I don't see it. Higher powers just swooping in and saving the day goes against the entire history of the PTB in AtS, and the notion goes against every point Joss has made with those stories and characters.

[ edited by EdDantes on 2005-02-06 21:52 ]
I think that using PTB would be a very easy solution.
I donīt like it.

I agree with you in what you consider canon.
Well that was an interesting read!
I love all the speculation, and maybe Joss knew what he was doing by leaving NFA so open like that.
He knew it would drive us crazy and leave the door open for any pick ups.
I am disappointed that comics is the way, however, it isn't the final way either.
I can still dream about movies, and mini series, and tv movies, and spin offs.
Or the animated series.

Can't I?
Ummmm I also noted this story.

You guys probably know this but Angel has returned already in Tales of the Vampire #5.

(Edited: link fixed)

[ edited by SoddingNancyTribe on 2005-02-07 04:45 ]
What do you mean he already returned? returned to the gypsies?
nixygirl, first of all your link doesn't work, maybe you should try the 'How to' tips that now appear above the Add a comment box (a nice touch by the way Caroline or whoever is responsible). Secondly, Tales of the Vampire 5 came out before Not Fade Away aired.

Edited to add: that came off sounding much more condescending than I intended, I was just trying to be helpful/informative :)
Thanks for the heads up, Paul_Rocks. nixygirl, as PR says, you can look at the How To for instructions - I find opening it in a new window so that I can switch back and forth to make sure I've got the HTML right works wonders. :)
Link works for me now but yeah, this story has been out for a while. And I never got the impression it was set after S5 either.
the ones who still matter means the ones who are gonna spend the money

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