Well we know it's not gonna happen, but since I haven't read Astonishing X-Men yet I'd care more if he wrote and directed X-Men 3.

Kris | February 14, 17:24 CET

Joss on "X-Men 3" is the only way I can see that movie being saved. Fox is losing actors who are following Singer to "Superman." They're staying firm on a 2005 start date without a script or story that everyone's happy with just to prove that Singer didn't get the best of them by jumping over to Warner Bros. It's a silly feud that's gonna just kill the "X-Men" franchise.

Unless, that is, Fox/Marvel pushes their start date back a year and hires Joss to take on full writing and directing duties. I hear Hugh Jackman has director approval on the matter. Maybe he's the one we should be whispering to. (Personally, I'd much rather have Joss on "X3" than "Wonder Woman.")

Honestly, though, if Joss stays on "Astonishing X-Men" beyond the initial dozen, I'll be delighted. That book is absolutely killer.

rbt | February 14, 17:55 CET

As much as I enjoy "Astonishing X-Men" I rather have mr. Whedon return to TV with "The Spike & Faith show"..............I know chances are probably less then zero but.....

Jonas | February 14, 18:10 CET

But writing X-Men takes up far less of his time than running a TV show did. Right now he's got post-production of Serenity and the X-comic on his plate (plus a Serenity comic if he hasn't already written the script for that). Sounds like that's enough for him at the moment.

After Buffy, Angel, and Firefly were all finished, I imagine there was a lot less stress in his life. Considering he has a young child and his health would probably benefit from not getting into another TV series any time soon, I'd rather see Joss just do the films he likes and as many comics as he can handle (unless the TV show in question is the sixth and final season of Angel or a Firefly revival). Maybe write an episode or two freelance on a favorite show of his if he takes the notion to (Joss on Lost, SFU, or Desperate Housewives would be fun).

No more new kinds of Buffyverse for a while. The fans seem to want it more than the writers do, and that's not a suitable climate to birth a series in.

Kris | February 14, 18:30 CET

I'd definately prefer Joss doing X-Men 3 over Wonder Woman, plus I love the X-Men franchise. Wonder Woman would be like Buffy only not as interesting. I'm not sure either is really in the cards. I want to see my beloved Angelverse again and hope that the writers will have a spark of inspiration after they've had a break from it for awhile.

killinj | February 14, 18:52 CET

I imagine that even if Joss stops Astonishing X-Men after this run, he'll be back in comics again, and probably sooner than later. So while I will miss him on X-Men, I am sure, given his geek love of the medium and the smaller commitment, he will be back. I can't wait, because I love me my Jossy comics. :)

As for Buffyverse/Angelverse... I need a break from it. I always have and always will love the shows, but after Firefly, I felt Joss had moved on, and I did, too. I'm not ready for another story in that world. That's not to say I won't want to see it sometime in the future, but I think those 'verses need to sit and mellow a bit.

Now X-Men 3... can I just say that outside of 17 more Firefly movies and anything original he might think up, this is what I would love to see Joss do next. He understands the characters, and I know it would be an exciting and moving movie. Wonder Woman; eh, just not feeling it. However, I will follow Joss anywhere; he has yet to let me down. If he can surprise me with a great Wonder Woman, I'm grinning.

Dizzy | February 14, 19:26 CET

And, honestly, "X-Men 3" is a better business move for Joss. I know you've got to go with your heart and not your wallet, but a well-done "X-Men" sequel is a guaranteed hit that will give Joss some big-screen clout, which -- in turn -- will allow him to put his own visions on screen down the line (with the appropriate budgets and without studio interference).

"Wonder Woman," even if done correctly (no easy task), could wrongly be ignored by a public burnt by "Catwoman." "Serenity" will no doubt rule the known universe, but I just can't see it becoming a blockbuster for the masses.

Joss doing "X3" ensures that bigger, better, original projects will follow.

rbt | February 14, 19:34 CET

For me, it's not even close: X3. It's the Phoenix saga, for crying out loud! It's practically encoded into Joss' DNA! Joss would knock this one to the Blue Area of the Moon...

cjl | February 14, 20:48 CET

I would love to see Joss continue writing Astonishing, but would probably be much happier seeing him on X3.

He knows and loves the characters and has always been great at writing for ensemble casts. If nothing else, they should have him write the screenplay.

Mikie | February 14, 20:51 CET

Maybe this is because i spent my childhood submerged deep in the ongoing tales of the Marvel Universe but i really cannot understand how anyone can say that they have had enough slayerverse after only 8 years and twelve seasons of episodes.

The X-Men, and the Marvel Universe overall, has been churning out stories now for over 40 years (much longer if you count the Golden Age Marvel Universe comics) and they are still incredibly popular with people still wanting more series and more adventures featuring their heroes. At one time Marvel were releasing between fifty and eighty books a month and yet they still remained popular. Same goes for DC Comics for that matter, although i can't speak from personal experience as I was never a DC fan.

So why is it that after only 144 episodes of Buffy and 110 of Angel so many people are saying to let it end, that they have seen enough and that to do any more stories from the slayerverse would be stretching things too thinly? Is it really that difficult to imagine the entire slayerverse mythology having enough untapped potential to fill a new series concept?

Personally i would like to see a new show happen as soon as possible because i believe the longer the wait, the less likely anything will occur at all. A big screen movie would maybe still happen in a few years but if the slayerverse is ever to have a third series on television it needs to be now, or at least within the next season or two. As much as i respect the slayerverse fandom it is already becoming apathetic to anything occuring again and if the fandom quietens down then there is no chance that a network will decide to take a chance on a Faith, Spike or Giles show.

Personally i'd like to see Joss stay with Astonishing X-Men for at least another twelve issue run but if it was a choice between that and another slayerverse series, well, there is no competition really. Many people can write the X-Men (maybe not quite as well but you can't have everything) but only one will be able to make the slayerverse live on the small screen again.

Disciple of Spike | February 14, 20:58 CET

"And, honestly, "X-Men 3" is a better business move for Joss. I know you've got to go with your heart and not your wallet, but a well-done "X-Men" sequel is a guaranteed hit that will give Joss some big-screen clout, which -- in turn -- will allow him to put his own visions on screen down the line (with the appropriate budgets and without studio interference)."

For Joss's career, Wonderwoman is the better move. X-Men 3 is not necessarily going to be a huge blockbuster hit, especially with actors falling by the wayside. There is nothing to be gained doing a sequel, success will be credited to the first films, whilst failure will be blaimed on the current administration.

Wonderwoman is more of an unknown, it is a franchise and that will have some impact. But people don't know how strong that franchise really is, and therefore there will be credit for success where there isn't for the X-Men, and at the same time failure can be blamed on the weakness of the franchise. X-Men 3 might be the bigger hit, but Wonderwoman offers better opportunities.

(edited for spelling etc.)

[ edited by SoddingNancyTribe on 2005-02-14 19:53 ]

Ocipital | February 14, 21:35 CET

"Maybe this is because i spent my childhood submerged deep in the ongoing tales of the Marvel Universe but i really cannot understand how anyone can say that they have had enough slayerverse after only 8 years and twelve seasons of episodes."

I do get what you are saying. A answer from me would be that I think I have grown up and away from that 'verse. Not that it is an immature world; far from it, of course. I'm just, I don't know... fatigued? The idea of the whole slayer 'verse no longer is as relevant to me. Many people read X-Men for years, and then dropped out as they found other comics they enjoyed, or because they didn't like where the stories were going, or whatever. I think people who stop reading a comic don't stop enjoying it, but it doesn't mean as much to them for whatever reason. But a good story line can usually bring back those fans. I think that's where I'm at. I would love to see more of the slayer 'verse, but I want to see other parts of the 'verse, and not nessasarily follow a character we have seen a lot of before. And that means, yes, I am just not that into a Spike or Faith story. Spike or Faith could be involved, but I want to see a new spin. My exception to this is anything to do with Giles. 7 seasons (give or take), and I am not tired of that character, and I could watch ASH file his nails, and it would be riveting entertainment as far as I'm concerned. :)

But as I said, I trust Joss, and I'd follow him anywhere.

[ edited by dizzy on 2005-02-14 20:30 ]

Dizzy | February 14, 22:24 CET

"For Joss's career, Wonderwoman is the better move. X-Men 3 is not necessarily going to be a huge blockbuster hit, especially with actors falling by the wayside. There is nothing to be gained doing a sequel, success will be credited to the first films, whilst failure will be blaimed on the current administration. Wonderwoman is more of an unknown, it is a franchise and that will have some impact. But people don't know how strong that franchise really is..."

Ah, the flip side of the coin. Good points, but I'll still disagree. Primarily, because, for many of the reasons others have stated before, I just don't think "Wonder Woman" can work ... no matter who's making it. The entire concept is just too camp.

As far as your argument that any success Joss might have with an "X-Men" sequel would be credited to the first films -- tell that to Renny Harlin ("Die Hard 2"), Paul Greengrass ("The Bourne Supremacy"), James Cameron ("Aliens") or Jonathan Mostow ("Teminator 3"). All those guys earned Hollywood cred for delivering financially successful and warmly received sequels to movies made by others.

I do agree that even Joss would have problems making "X3" work if they're going to lose Marsden and Famke ... but that's really an issue where Fox needs to swallow some of its pride and deal with those actors' loyalty to Singer. Pushing back the start date would allow the pair to do "Superman" and "X3." (As well as allow the "X3" writers and director, whoever they may be, to get the story tip-top.)

rbt | February 14, 22:48 CET

Is Marsden really that important? I never read the X-Men comics but I own the two movies and wouldn't be bothered in the least if someone else took that role.

Famke I liked alot and would miss her but her character died in X-Men 2, couldn't they get away with her looking a bit different when she returns? Isn't that a way of getting over the differences in look of her replacement.

Also I wouldn't mind at all if someone else played Storm.

But it would be a shame to replace actors like Patrick Stewart, Hugh J., Ian M. and Rebecca R.

Passion | February 15, 00:17 CET

Vampire With a Gun said:

i really cannot understand how anyone can say that they have had enough slayerverse after only 8 years and twelve seasons of episodes.

Firefly lasted 14 episodes. I hadn't had enough of it yet, not by a long shot. The characters had barely begun their journeys (or in Mal and Zoe's cases, they'd been through a hell of a lot in their lives already and were about to go through more), storylines were left unresolved, I felt very little closure on any of the plotlines (River's acceptance into the crew [minus Jayne, heh], the probability that Simon and Kaylee would work out by that point. That's all though). Now imagine me thinking the opposite about Buffy. It felt like the time to end it, I don't feel the need to visit the characters every Tuesday for 22 weeks a year anymore, they've explored most of the themes I can think of related to the central character and the show's main focus...Buffy felt tired, a whole lotta the audience felt tired. I would've liked to have seen more of Xander and Giles and a few other supporting players in that last season, but it's too late to go back and fix it now and a similarly styled spin-off for those characters specifically would feel like too-little, too-late (if they'd like to do the "ghost stories" Ripper mini-series or TV movie Joss had in mind way back when though, I'd be up for that).

I can't say much about sticking with a comic book for most of your life, as I never have. Most of what I read are indie-comics, and those usually have a solid beginning, middle, and conclusion, often planned out far in advance by the creator. The only title I read that's currently above 100 issues is maybe Strangers in Paradise, and even that's showing its age and should probably be concluded in the near future (I should point out that I haven't been reading it since its debut in `93, I started with the trade paperback collections when they were up to Volume 6). I started out reading superhero books, sure, but I grew tired of them after a while. Crossovers that required a 13 year old kid with no income to be reading a dozen titles just to fully understand and appreciate a story arc really turned me off. Marvel lost me during Onslaught. Yes, I realize they've gotten better writers than Scott Lobdell and the like since then, and aren't as crossover-crazy as they used to be. No, I still won't go back. I don't trust Marvel. They're a business first and foremost, their mandate is to sell. Let's say for example, Joss wrote the next X-Men arc in such a way that it felt like a proper time to conclude the story, or at least let a very popular character pass away or walk away from the team for good and have a very good reason for never coming back. Let's say it's Wolverine for example. Even though it would be the best thing for the story, even though it would probably feel right for the majority of the readers, Marvel would never let Joss do it (unless the character became incredibly unpopular all of a sudden). Or, even if they did, when Joss moved on they'd have another writer bring him back. Joss may've been allowed to do a lot of creative things in Astonishing X-Men, but he still has to work within certain confines of Marvel.

Sometimes you just feel like moving on, like you need to close a chapter in your life. Think of it like ending a relationship. Meh, I dunno if that's a great comparison, but it sorta works.

why is it that...so many people are saying to let it end, that they have seen enough and that to do any more stories from the slayerverse would be stretching things too thinly?

I don't think most people are saying that, exactly. A vast majority of viewers would like to see Angel given its proper conclusion. Illyria alone is proof to many that they still had great ideas and fresh characters to explore. I would be all for a continuation of Angel, though I'd probably begin to worry if it continued into a seventh season or so (Joss has said that Season 6 probably would've been the intended end, so I would've supported whenever he felt ready). I like the idea of a Giles solo mini-series or movie. Overall though, I'm perfectly happy with what we got out of the Buffyverse. I'm not very hungry for it anymore, I feel full. I have a few other TV shows (even had them while Buffy was still going), movies, books, comics, and once in a while video games to fill my entertainment needs.

Is it really that difficult to imagine the entire slayerverse mythology having enough untapped potential to fill a new series concept?

Of course not. But then again, it's more interesting to me to see someone else take on those themes. Alan Ball (Six Feet Under), David Chase (The Sopranos), Daniel Knauf (Carnivale), Shawn Ryan (The Shield and former Angel writer)--etc etc etc--they've all got a creative vision as strong as Joss Whedon's, though they work in different genres at the moment. They've also all got varied outlooks on life, on the human condition. As far as television goes, I'm happy to let them take up a lot of my attention for a change.

i would like to see a new show happen as soon as possible because i believe the longer the wait, the less likely anything will occur at all. A big screen movie would maybe still happen in a few years but if the slayerverse is ever to have a third series on television it needs to be now, or at least within the next season or two. As much as i respect the slayerverse fandom it is already becoming apathetic to anything occuring again and if the fandom quietens down then there is no chance that a network will decide to take a chance on a Faith, Spike or Giles show.

Being in a rush like that makes it less likely that a quality show will be produced. Or at least, a show as good as Buffy, Angel, or Firefly, etc. 'Cause that's what the spin-off would have to be. It'd have to be really damn good. You can't just throw a bunch of leftover Buffyverse characters on the screen, get maybe a couple of the original writers back, and hope that it sticks. A lot of people on the creative side of things have to want this to happen and a lot of executives need to be willing to back it. But none of the writers seem interested in starting a new series anytime soon, they're all enjoying other jobs, some of them are trying their hands at their own series. I think a lot of the actors are happy to pursue other challenges as well, much as they all obviously loved their characters.

And heh, no Spike series? Personal preference here, but I say thank god to that. I think James Marsters is amazing, but should be freed up so we can see him in a lot of other roles hopefully. I'm so sick of Spike. His character was given a nice send-off in Buffy's finale, but they had to bring him back for Angel as part of the renewal deal with The WB. He worked a few times during the season, but for the most part he annoyed me and felt like he didn't belong one bit (yeah, I realize that was kind of the point, the not belonging). He's overexposed, and I can't help but feel a lot of that is due to how much hype he got and continues to get from a large, very vocal number of fans. I used to really like the character, am still able to look back at the earlier years, maybe until around the last quarter of Season 6, and still enjoy the character. But after that his track record for entertaining me is spotty at best. Better to not bring the character back so as to keep me from hating him more.

Many people can write the X-Men, but only one will be able to make the slayerverse live on the small screen again.

I agree with ya there.

My "no-Buffyverse-without-Joss" obsession may be fueled by a fear of what another writer may do to it without guidance and being reigned in when necessary. Though I think I'd fully trust maybe Tim Minear, Steven DeKnight, and/or Drew Goddard with it though. Maybe. (I say "and/or" 'cause I'd rather have a few of my top favorite Buffyverse writers running the show in Joss' absence, rather than just one).

Kris | February 15, 01:25 CET

Personally, I'd like to see Joss do a movie or tv series based on Fray. It takes place in the Slayerverse but, because it's set in the future with a new set of characters, it's a clean slate creatively.

[ edited by Barry Woodward on 2005-02-15 01:16 ]

Barry Woodward | February 15, 03:16 CET

See, I can live without more Buffy-verse because for me it was obvious that after "Chosen" and all of season 7, Joss seemed tired of the concept. Sometimes I think the end of season five was the natural and right ending place for Buffy, because going out on not only a high note but the right note is important to me. On the other hand, we would never have had the musical or crazy Spuffy sex, all good things, but I have to admit: the last 2 and a half seasons of the show, I watched out of faithfulness and duty, not enjoyment.

The Buffyverse isn't a comic book franchise -- for one thing, it's far more expensive enterprise. It's a lot more like the Star Trek franchise, which is a perfect example of a good thing run into the ground. Voyager and Enterprise have no real point in existing besides the fact that loyal fans can be crooked into watching a show because it carries the tag of the franchise. I'm not quite that loyal.

Hate to say it -- it sounds cheesy, but I'll be happy whatever Joss decides to do next. I'd prefer visual media, that's all. Nothing against comics -- I'm getting into them in a way -- but I'd adore a Joss movie or TV show any time soon, and anything that's engaged his honest passion. If that happens to be the Buffyverse, I'll be happy. And if not, I'll be happy as well.

dottikin | February 15, 04:46 CET

dottikin,

You just said exactly what I meant to say in my rambling, incoherent post. Thank you. :)

Dizzy | February 15, 05:09 CET

I like the long story of a television series so I'd like Joss to get back to that. That said, I think Buffy had run its course and while Angel had another year or two in it, that ship has sailed. The only Buffyverse I would really like is Ripper or the animated series.

Barring that, I think that Joss should come up with a brand spanking new series. He said when he shut down Mutant Enemy that he believed that the television execs were looking for material that he couldn't give them... but a lot has changed in a few short months. The success of Lost has them scrambling to find smart genre television shows and nobody does smart genre better than Mr. Whedon. Come back to the small screen please, they want you and need you again.

If he wants to stay with features, can he please save Iron Man from Cassavetes? Tom Cruise could have been a decent Tony Stark but he has walked away from it stating that he wasn't happy with where it was going. They have decided to completely change the origin story and who Tony Stark is. Joss, could you get in there and save it?

X-3 and Wonderwoman.... meh. They can take care of themselves or not get done. Iron Man is in need of rescuing.

writer | February 15, 08:34 CET