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February 16 2005

Alyson Hannigan was 'nervous' for her first day on Veronica Mars. She also thinks a Spike TV movie would be a great idea. "Forget Angel or Buffy! Do the James Marsters movie. That would be huge. He's bigger than anybody!".

Excellent! As I mentioned in the thread below, I was hoping this would become a recurring role for Aly. I think it will give her a chance to show off her acting chops.

I also can't believe no one as considered a Spike TV movie. With ME's doors now closed, perhaps FOX considers the matter 'off the table' so to speak and they aren't pursuing the idea with the networks. Guess the WB or UPN could do so if they still had the rights and were willing to foot the bill for production. Any other thoughts?
Has there been any news about VM airing in the UK? Waiting till it gets cancelled and released on DVD would be just too depressing...
Just to play Devil's Advocate...

I've turned into a pretty big "Veronica Mars" fan. It's a show that deserves a second season with or without Ms. Hannigan's participation. (I actually think "Veronica" is having a BETTER first season than "Buffy," although that may be because Rob Thomas has had more season one episodes to find the tone of his show.)

We all know Hannigan's a fantastic actress, and I want to see her find a great part. But the question is: Could her addition to the show actually be distracting? Will I be watching "Veronica Mars" and then all of a sudden have to think: "Hey, there's Willow! Neat!" That kind of thing can pull one right out of a show.

If the role is different enough for Alyson (and it sounds like it is), and she nailes it, it shouldn't be a problem. But I'm just thinking out loud here...
Don't mean to be the dog in the manger, but I tried Veronica and found her to be less than enchanting. The characters did not resonate, the situations seemed contrived (they are, of course, but the trick is to make them seem not so, as was so successfully done in Buffy and Angel), and the whole thing seemed leaden and tired....just one man's opinion, of course.
Ok, I love Mike Ausiello now, first he asks Janollari now Alyson. Of course they should do a James Marsters movie. That would be huge! *dances happily for a moment*

Okay, yes, *ahem* I'm looking forward to seeing Alyson. I haven't really checked out Veronica Mars yet, but I will.

[ edited by killinj on 2005-02-16 15:41 ]
YEAH! Right on! Forget Buffy and Angel, give Spike a chance! *makes a placard*

No argument from the moi camp, either. ;)

I miss seeing Aly and James on my TV screen more than just about anybody else, y'know. *wistfulness*
I'd so much rather watch a Giles movie than a Spike one.

Or a Wesley movie.

Or, really, most of the cast.

[Like Oz!]
Heck, Wesley, Spike, Mr.Pee-pee I do not care. Gimme more Jossverse TV :-)
"Clem's Poker Party--No Kittens Allowed"

I'd watch that!
bobtaylor- using that reasoning, we could never watch Aly in another TV role, for her Willow persona would get in the way. Or conversely, her Michelle Flaherty character. No, I am glad to see Aly get this role, since it will so obviously allow her to stretch her acting chops in a new direction. She brings class to everything she does, and of all the Buffy actors I got the sense Joss held her in highest esteem.

As for VM, I think it is an utterly marvelous show, and the acting is first rate.
I really liked how Alyson carried out the Vamp Willow and Dark Willow acting in BtVS. I suspect she will take to this 'bad girl' role in VM like a fish takes to water. Aly's really good when she's bad. I feel she will do much to compliment this show and, hopefully, it will have a tell-tale effect on this show's ratings.
Dana5140 said: ...using that reasoning, we could never watch Aly in another TV role, for her Willow persona would get in the way.

I certainly don't want that to be the case. I just think it can be debated here because "Veronica" and "Buffy" are so similar in tone. From what I've read, Alyson was initally a bit worried about the same thing.
Good luck to Aly ! I can't think that she will be anything other than wonderful. I hope her role becomes recurring.
That's a nice endorsement from her for a Spike Movie - she's a lady with great taste !
Aly is such a sweetheart. Most actresses would've been a little annoyed at the Spike movie mention, and turned it into a 'why not do a Willow movie' thing.

Still haven't seen Veronica Mars, but I have a feeling I will soon. I hope it lives up to the rather enormous hype that's generated. (Although I might be like Chris in Virginia. We'll see;-)
Maybe its just me, but I don't feel like VM and Buffy have that similar of a tone. I think they are both witty, but other than that I don't really compare the two at all. I think VM is got great writing, and wondeful acting (Kristin Bell rocks)and so far the stories have been pretty engaging.

Of course, I have to say that to me Buffy is and will always be far superior because of the emotional depth of the relationships on that show.

But of course, I can't wait to see Alyson play against type, I am sure she will do wonderful as usual.
Did anybody catch the dig at Elizabeth Rohm near the end? Ow-itch! L&O, supposedly her golden parachute, ruined her career. (Maybe Joss can bring back Kate for the ANGEL and/or SPIKE movie so she can prove she can still act.)

I get the feeling next week's episode is going to be the deciding moment for UPN as to whether Veronica Mars can build a following. I know I'm repeating myself, but please, PLEASE watch, Aly fans!
I just can't seen Spike working by himself. Maybe it's because I'm not a huge fan of his character (the Buffy/Spike romance really soured me), but I don't think he really has the depth to carry something on his own. He works best as the foil for the hero, whoever that may be.
Lost amidst all the Aly stuff:

Question: Is the talented but underused Daniel Dae Kim ever going to get his own Lost episode? — Ray

Ausiello: Not only is he going to get one, but it airs next Wednesday. And I hear we're going to be seeing a lot more of him in the future.

Nice to see Gavin getting work and appreciation.
From what I saw of Angel while he was on Buffy, I wouldn't have thought that he had the depth to carry a show by himself. If Joss can prove me wrong - he can prove you wrong. :)
Uhhh...unless I missed something ...Spike was and is a hero why does he have to be a foil for anybody?
I am sure that if there ever is a Spike movie...he won't be existing in a vacumn. I just think it would be nice to give his character the rightfull chance to shine. I mean , I never thought Angel was interesting enough to build a spin off on...and gosh...look what happened. Why can't the same be true of Spike, or even more interesting????
A Spike movie? Let me give you a possible plot right here:

Take the upcoming "Constantine" movie. Keep general subject matter (the war between heaven and hell). Subtract Keanu Reeves. Add Spike. Subtract overindulgent SFX, and substitute writer Garth Ennis' profane and profound snark. Broadcast on cable. We have a franchise. It's not that difficult, folks.
What about a Willow movie?
I'd love a Spike show or movie, but I fear that James looks far too old to be an ageless vampire now, and it's quite distracting.

He'd have to Shanshu or something.

I really want an Illyria/Wesley movie though.
Back to VM, try my trick: I ignored all the "new Buffy" hype and went into the show with an open mind. I'd never heard of Kristin Bell (no HBO), but I absolutely LOVE Enrico Colontoni. So, I watched the pilot, liked it (and KB), next episode was great, etc. and so on and now I'm hooked and DVRing every week. I'm not sure if the labeling helped or will ultimately hurt this show; jury's still out.

But great show and eagerly anticipating Aly.
I would love a Spike movie. Giles and Willow are my first choices as costars but I'd be fine with a movie with just him and a new cast of characters. My dream is that Joss will someday write and direct a feature film with Spike as the male lead.

VM is a terrific show. I really enjoy Lost but personally find VM more satisfying emotionally. Imo, VM is the best female character on television at the moment.
Would love any movie that was 'verse related. That said, I think the popularity of Spike would make this an instant hit. As for his age, I don't care if he really doesn't look like an ageless vampire. I can suspend belief enough to just enjoy great story telling and acting.

Now, back on topic! I'm a newbie when it comes to watching Veronica Mars. I started watching about six weeks ago and have watched about five episodes including the pilot. A reason I was hesitant in the beginning was because of all the Buffy comparisons (and one not so nice reviewer tearing down Buffy/SMG to build up Veronica Mars/KB which really turned me off wanting to see the show). But after a lot of people who post here and on Flicker constantly raving about the show I gave it a chance and I'm glad I did.

I wish they'd stop comparing it to BtVS or at least distinguish that the comparisons are more about the excellent writing and acting and plots. I still love the Buffyverse better but this show is really good and has a nice mystery to it. I'd more compare it to a modern day Nancy Drew than BtVS.

I am so looking forward to seeing AH portraying a different role and I think she'll be a great addition to the cast.
I'm so happy to hear that Trina Echolls is a spoilt girl. Aly has such great range that it will be nice to see her in a role that is pretty far off from Willow and her character in American Pie.
i think DB was showing is age towards the end as well. not to say hes old or anything, but its just obvious that he was older but it still wasnt distracting.
It's more of a distraction for me when I go back and watch the earliest episodes, Norman!
never hear about make-up and filters? They could be the job! I really would see a movie on SPike, if WIllow is in would be so better, but I think that the project never will goes in port because WB don't want spend anymore money in something that they had think dead (no pun intended)
This column also mentions David Krumholtz, who is listed at IMDB as appearing in Serenity. And, crazy coincidence that it is, I noticed Shohreh Aghdashloo (who is garnering quite a bit of critical acclaim for her turn on this season's 24) is listed there as well. Maybe the recent press of these two fine actors will boost Serenity's box office as well!
I'd watch a 'Stinky Parker' movie if I thought any of the other slayerverse characters were going to appear, or get a mention.

Anything from Joss really, this wait for the movie is painful.
I agree with Ally. I want a Spike movie.
My point was, Angel was never expected to carry BtVS. Was he a main character? Yes, but no more than any of the other leads, save for that great little Angelus run. But the final two seasons of BtVS were essentially the Buffy & Spike Show, and they're generally considered the weakest of the lot.

Now, that's not Marsters' fault of course -- he's got a great role that he plays well, and he was probably hampered by writing that was trying too hard to arrive at certain plot points. But from what I've seen so far, Spike just works better as the comic relief foil (Buffy S4, Angel S5) than as the male lead (Buffy S6 and S7).

But hey, I'll watch and support a flick about Archduke Sebassis' early years if it gets made.
I´m not agree with Aly.
I love the Spike character, but for me, i would prefer him to stay dead in Chosen. A perfect ending for him, especially after the great evolution he had in the last two seasons, his resurrection was like, blah... forget that. I don´t know how to express this.

[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2005-02-16 23:37 ]
I'm telling everybody, Clem's got to get on those ESPN poker challenge shows (that I never watch.)
I loved Spike on ATS, but I do agree that backtracking him to season four Sidekick Spike was frustrating. He was a leading man on BTVS, not to mention a great actor and sexy, too.
My point was, Angel was never expected to carry BtVS. Was he a main character? Yes, but no more than any of the other leads, save for that great little Angelus run. But the final two seasons of BtVS were essentially the Buffy & Spike Show, and they're generally considered the weakest of the lot.

While I certainly appreciate the point made here, I have never viewed the final two seasons as the Buffy & Spike show. I don't think the other main characters were sidelined in favour of this pairing at all. For me, they all continued to be an essential and fascinating part of the fabric of the show. Mind you, I think S6 and S7 were both superb seasons and would never describe them as the "weakest of the lot."

In terms of ideas for a spin-off film, or whatever, I really don't have an opinion. If something were to come along I would watch it, but I don't feel I actually need it. There is always the danger that expectations would be so high that anything less than a full-blown reunion would be a disappointment, and, let's face it, realistically that is not going to happen.
I think Buffy S6 was a nifty idea led astray by an overall cruelty to its characters. I liked what they were trying to do with it, but it came off a little over-the-top for my tastes. And S7, while I enjoyed it, came off like "BtVS: Auto-Pilot," like the writing staff was too scared of repeating S6's mistakes and so they didn't really take any risks.

Ack! Topic hijacking. I'll stop.
The Adventures of April The Robot! That's what I want to see! The series practially writes itself!
I honestly don't feel there was a bad season of BtVS and really enjoyed both season 6 & 7 especially after I received them on DVD and got to watch them uninterrupted. And, frankly, their dvd sales were just as successful as the earlier seasons so I think those who didn't like them are more a very vocal minority. If you check out the review ratings on Amazon, they are pretty much consistent season after season.
Oh, I liked them. Don't get me wrong. They're just lower on my "Best Seasons" list, though I have to say Season 4 comes off the weakest to me.
I agree with The Dark Shape. Whether or not you viewed 6&7 as the Buffy and Spike show, it was and it didn't work. Spike has a lot of fans but the reason the ratings were low is because he didn't work as the lead and he was a foil to Buffy. It changed the premise of Buffy which was Buffy, Willow, Xander, and the romance with Angel. All of what we went through for the first 5 years felt cheapened when the character's relationships with each other fell apart and Spike got pushed to center stage.
A Spike show could work though because it would be different and we wouldn't expect it to be the exact same as BtVS, just like A:tS was different and worked.
i liked season 7 up to the arrival of the potentials. they ruined it for me, and the fact that everybody kinda betrayed buffy when the left her for faith (this is still unbelievable to me). as for spikes development, im glad he got pushed more to the center stage. his development was one of the best in the verse (at least to me), but were all not going to agree :)
I agree with The Dark Shape and Charisma, I loved Spike as a character but he really started to lose it for me once he got the soul. Angel had already well and truly blazed that trail and Spike’s reaction to getting his soul and his love for/obsession with Buffy was just too much Angel-lite for me. Plus I just felt so sorry for Buffy for most of season six it plum tuckered me out. Hopefully if there is more Spike, Joss takes it a whole different way.
We know that both SMG and Boreanaz have publically been fickle about the idea of a movie. Boreanaz' tune has changed somewhat recently. They're both probably going to hold out for "just the right script" which I interpret to mean "more money."

Hannigan may have an inside scoop on this. She'd like there to be a Whedon film in the BuffyVerse because no matter who gets put in the driver's seat, she's almost guaranteed a seat in the back, if not riding shotgun. The role of Willow is integral to the whole of the Buffy series, and if not for her character, Angel wouldn't have gotten his soul back. Of all actors in the series, only Hannigan and SMG appeared in EVERY SINGLE BtVS episode.

Marsters has made it clear in the past he'd be up for a Spike film, and the way he conveyed this it didn't sound like he'd try to milk the producers for all they're worth before he'd sign on the dotted line. He sincerely loves the character, loves working with the people who made Mutant Enemy work both behind the scenes and in front of the camera, and he likes giving the crowd what they want. So of all the variable permutations I've heard people throw around since our favorite television series were cancelled, The Spike Movie is the best possible gamble we got going right now. A year ago before Tru Calling came and went, maybe Faith The Series looked distantly possible, but no more.

It's Spike or Bust, people, and I'd say we need Willow riding shotgun. A plot that puts Spike on the run with both good guys and bad guys trying to destroy him, and for some reason the only person he can trust is Willow. I tell you, if Universal or whoever Whedon's got the best deal with right now could just get those three names on the same contract, we'd be set. Hannigan, Marsters and Whedon. If they'd shake hands on something, everything would fall into place.

We DON'T need SMG or Boreanaz. The Buffy/Angel story has been told. It's over. However, Marsters & Hannigan? There's a lot of potential there. ...and I ain't talkin' slash. No romance, but a hellova lotta action and fun.
The Buffy/Angel story isn't over. *slams fist on the table*
They all betrayed Buffy in S7 not for Buffy or any kind of plot or characterdevelopement for Buffy. No, it was *only* done for to make Spike look better. If they trash other characters and the show into the ground to make Spike look better again in the movie, than I really hope that there is no Spike movie coming.

Otherwise I welcome it.
Whether or not you viewed 6&7 as the Buffy and Spike show, it was and it didn't work.

If, as this suggests, my viewing of S6 and S7 is entirely wrong I am quite happy for it to remain that way. I have no overwhelming interest in the Buffy and Spike storyline in these two seasons. I found it interesting, but I also found lots of other themes equally interesting, if not more so. Personally, I don't think I am wrong. I simply view and interpret the show my own way.

We know that both SMG and Boreanaz have publically been fickle about the idea of a movie. Boreanaz' tune has changed somewhat recently. They're both probably going to hold out for "just the right script" which I interpret to mean "more money."

I can't comment about David Boreanaz, but there seems to be a point of view that SMG is only interested in money and this is what motivates her decisions to sign-up to a role or not. I've never been clear where this comes from. It certainly isn't immediately apparent from some of the roles she has taken over the years. Personally, I would be more inclined to suspect she has expressed no particular interest in a 'Buffy' film simply because she doesn't want to do it.

They all betrayed Buffy in S7 not for Buffy or any kind of plot or character developement for Buffy. No, it was *only* done for to make Spike look better.

I'm not entirely clear what is meant by "they all". If, as I read it, this means the people who made the show, it indicates a low opinion of the artistic and creative integrity of Joss Whedon and his writing team. I'm not sure I would be able to agree with that view.
Those in Empty Spaces of course and I was protraying the view of the fans who think this is.

And yes, I'm criticizing ME and Joss for their lack of artistic and creative energy. I *very* much do. The second half of S7 was simply crap with a few exceptions and after Empty Spaces even became a joke. If you watch Chosen alone, then I think Joss was somewhere else during the rest of the season. And I'm criticizing Joss extra, because I know he can do a lot better than that. And I'm simply pissed about how he has dealt with Xander's emotions regarding his loss with Anya. Or how he has decided that inflicting every Potential with demonic powers without any choice doesn't need any decent consideration by the Scoobies and must be done in less than a minute, but at the same time vampire/Buffy can have neverending scenes.
Forcibly expressed. It might not come as a surprise to learn that I don't see it this way, but I respect the opinion. I adore S6 and S7. I genuinely believe the final season is the best the show ever offered us. I count myself as being lucky I think this way because I would hate to come away from it feeling that in the end I'd been let down. I appreciate that a lot of people feel this.

Mind you, one of my daughters did recently tell me that my taste is in my arse!
I loved season 6 and 7 , even more so when I got the DVDs and was able to watch it without lengthy breaks . In fact I've loved almost all seasons of both BTVS and AtS . My least favourite is probably Angel season 4 but that's not to say that it didn't produce some amazing hours of TV just that the Connor/ Cordelia arc squicked the hell out of me.

In my opinion Season 5 and 6 emphatically did *not* become The Spike show. They were the same masterly ensemble pieces that Joss has always given us . Could have done with more Giles but , since Tony wasn't available ,I can hardly blame Joss for that. Season 7 could possibly have done with a few less potentials, especially the cringeworthy Molly but that's really my only criticism... oh hang on, one more , Angel's arrival in Sunnydale , whilst amusing was , as Wesley would say ," a bit odd" when taken in context with what had just happened in L.A.

However I stand by my opinion that Joss is a Godlike genius and that a even a *substandard* hour of Jossverse is still streets ahead of the best of the rest on the box.

Personally I'm nore than ready to see 'The Spike Show'. James is a hugely talented, amazingly popular actor and I'd love to see Spike's story continue. I'm not wildly optimistic that we will get any type of continuation of the verse but if we do I'd vote for Spike any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

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