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"I think my bad guys are better than her bad guys."
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February 28 2005

SOS Poll: Bring Back the Whedonverse. Couldn't find anything to vote for in Kristin's annual SOS poll? has an answer.

Already sent my "Save Angel" email.

C'mon everyone, get voting! We all know it won't bring Angel back as a series but it will be another tribute to Joss if his show, cancelled last season, still tops the SOS Poll a whole year later.

Not sure if it will be officially included in the actual poll itself but if there are thousands of emails sent it will at least get a mention.
Been there, done that It certainly can't hurt! lets hope that the Emails keep rolling in.
I sent in my Faith spinoff email.
Mine is sent. :)
Kewl! I didn't realize the idea would make it here at all let alone so quickly. Anyway, if there is another show on Kristen's list that you really want to support, by all means vote for that show. This is merely intended as a means of paying tribute to the 'Verse.
I sent in saying how much I missed Angel and how I want to see the Buffy cartoon.
I wrote Kristin suggesting Angel AND Firefly, giving (in my patented vociferous way) a caveat to the reasons why I'm rather pessimistic about the chances. The entire creative team of both series have pretty much moved on to greener pastures. That's understandable. I don't think television could afford to put SMG, Boreanaz, Marsters, Dushku, Whedon, Minear, Espenson, - hell, ANY THREE of the MANY names that made the Whedonverse so special on the same soundstage. I mentioned "Faith the Series" as a waning possibility, but my personal preference at this point would be "Spike the Series." The character's more versatile and more fun. Though Dushku is easier on my eyes, Marsters is just hands down more talented, and has a better chance of carrying the lion's share of a tv series' weight on his shoulders.

I don't know if they could get Whedon to come back to the boob toob now. His talent's too big for the little screen. I just hope the moviegoers welcome him with open arms come September, but the idea of waiting two or three years between Serenity sequels? Huh choo-shung tza-jiao duh tzang-huo! And ah MEAN it!
ZachsMind, the way i see it between Spike and Faith is that i dont see the character (Spike) being able to develop that much more, he's gone through so many different changes and metamorphises throughout the years, we know so much about his past already, and over the years he's had a lot of screentime. No disrespect for James Marsters though, he's a terrific actor, and has shown great skill in his craft over and over again

The character of Faith is a different matter. She's only appeared in about twenty six episodes of both shows put together, there is so much more of her character to explore particuarly her past, growing up in Boston, "the little firecracker" her mother used to call her. To me, she just resonates so much, and any episode she is in I can't look away. Dushku may be easy on the eye, but she is also completely mesmirising as Faith, tragic, sad and flawed to the centre, and you never want her to go away.

But what i want most (at the moment) is Ripper. It would be great, and in Joss's hands become the only brightspark on British TV (Except of course Shameless). A ten episode series a year would be great and with the fanbase that Buffy has in the UK, the series would be guaranteed immediate fans (with the proper marketing by the BBC). Like Faith , his past while hinted at and explored a little, has never been put under the microsope in detail (except maybe in "The Dark Age"), and with the "ghost story" setting that Joss had visaged, the combanation of these two things would be an absoloutely fantastic show to watch, and (hopefully) unlike anything anyone of us has ever seen in the Buffyverse

Also, still holding out for Buffy:Animated. I love you little toons!
Apocalypse: agree with the wanting Ripper. Giles has always been my favorite character. However, I want it on US tv! Don't get me wrong, I have never been upset with Tony for wanting to be home with his family. But I sure miss Giles when he's not around!
ZachsMind said:

"... but the idea of waiting two or three years between Serenity sequels?"

That is exactly my fear as far as Joss staying away from television is concerned. A year between Joss projects is a hell of a long time to wait. With television we got a solid dose of quality every week, three times when Buffy, Angel and Firefly were all on the air together. However one, perhaps two movies per year is hardly the same thing, no matter how good they are.

Of course there is his comic work to fall back on but it's just not the same for me as looking forward to the next episode of Angel.

No, somehow we need to convince Joss back to the small screen sooner or later. Movies just aren't enough Whedony goodness for me.
Pardon my cynicism, but if Angel swamped all others last year and still got the axe, what good will this do? I mean, there (tragically) aren't even any Whedon shows to ask to save this time around...

I know, I know, the solidarity and never-say-die (not fade away) loyalty may magically spark an idea in a network suit's feeble brain and prompt a call to Joss...but really, does anybod think that's going to happen?

Not saying I wish it wouldn't happen, just that I don't think it will.
Chris inVirginia - this is a symbolic gesture, I don't expect anything to come from it except perhaps some free press showing that the fanbase is still out there and still cares.

Also, it won't effect the outcome for the shows that are actually on the ballot this year.

[ edited by killinj on 2005-03-01 00:58 ]
To be honest Chris, as much as i would love this to lead to somebody deciding to give a new slayerverse show a go, that isn't why i sent the email.

For me it's about making a point that the WB really screwed up last year, as well as showing how loyal a fanbase Joss still has. If Angel gets a high amount of votes again this year, despite us all knowing there is absolutely no chance of it being revived, what do you think that will say to those at the WB. Something like "look at the loyal audience we could have held on to for another year or two if only we had taken our collective heads out of our collective asses and kept the one quality show we still had!".

It may be cold comfort but if all we can do is continue to prove our loyality, regardless of whether it gets us anything new, plus continue to rub a little salt into the WB's wounds, then that is good enough for me.
Here's my thought:

If Joss wants to come back to TV, I don't think he's going to have much of a problem doing so. Honest-to-god storytelling is now back in vogue (thanks to Lost and Desperate Housewives), and I'd think a new Joss project would be much desired. Heck, even the WB admits cancelling Angel was a mistake.

Meanwhile, some shows on Kristin's list are currently on the air and need the support for a shot at returning next year. I voted for "Veronica Mars," but I was tempted to write in "Carnivale," which is having a stunningly-good second season (after a so-so first), but HBO has yet to renew it.
I agree with Mosh Pit Demon. The WB needs to be shown how big of a mistake they've made. They thought they could replace Angel with new dramas, made by Warner Bros, and they've failed miserably. The WB's ratings are down this year considerably. Canceling Angel's hurt them.

If we all just fade away and stop clamoring for an Angel tv movie, mini-series, spinoff, etc, then they win, and the WB can keep talking up Jack & Bobby and forget about Angel. If we keep the pressure up, eventually maybe something comes of it.

I hope more people email in for the Whedonverse than vote for J&B. That would show the WB!
Amen, Mosh Pit Demon. It will definitely show them that we will not fade away. I'm still all Pollyanna about it...we WILL have a spin off. I'm still a newby when it comes to the whedonverse, so it's pretty much all denial. As far as spin offs go....I love the idea of one featruring Spike, Faith, and Illyria. Not really having a key main person, but more of an ensemble cast. Oh, and you gotta throw in Andrew. While the denial is bubbling let's just decide the location....hey, how about Europe? That's where Faith and Andrew should be, right? OK, I'm out of my dreamland now. A far better chance is the Angel feature. Fingers still crossed......yep just did.
I posted this elsewhere but sorry, my heart of hearts says:
buffyverse 0% chance of happening as TV series or movie
angelverse 0%
Slayerverse 1%
fireflyverse 0% chance of happening as TV series (obviously movie is coming in this 'verse)
Whedonverse (new) 100% (just don't know when but soon damn it!)

I wish otherwise (God I wish otherwise but I really feel that everything is done but Serenity (and, hopefully any sequels) and the new 'verse, whatever that may be.

I still voted For BtVS though - I don't have to be completely rational do I?

I know I should remain optimistic but nothing gives me any hint to be so. Sorry.
ZachsMind said:

"His talent's too big for the little screen."

I hate when people say that, usually they're implying that film is a more legitimate storytelling medium than television. Or that everyone who works in television is simply waiting to graduate to film for the respectability (not necessarily), better pay, more recognition...I don't think that's what you're saying though, right? It's that TV has been unkind to Joss this last little while, that for the most part, TV is an inhospitable business in which to tell the sorts of stories Joss and those like him intend to, right? I agree there. Except I think HBO and maybe another cable network would do right by him. Personally, if I were going to tell a story through live action or animation, I've got a hell of a lot more ideas floating around in my head that'd be well suited to HBO, to the long form of TV (telling huge arcs, getting to know and care for the characters really well if they're well-written and well-acted, etc) as opposed to just a film with a sequel or two.

Just the wording of it though...makes it sound like you think he's outgrown television. I realize movie-making is where his heart's set right now, and that like many english major/film students, movies were what he originally dove into Hollywood for (I believe he's stated as much)...but also by the sounds of it, the current climate of network TV has discouraged him almost completely from making any more shows in the near future, plus he's tired and needed a bit of a break, or at least a change from the hectic nature of both writing for, directing, and more importantly running a TV series or three. So who knows if he'd wanna make a new series if network tv wasn't a problem or if he could easily get an HBO deal. Obviously he hadn't outgrown TV if he still had many more seasons of Firefly to show us.
Somewhere around the middle of Buffy season 7, Joss said that once Buffy and Angel came to their natural ends, he would move to the big screen. So he's had this personal goal to leave television for a fair number of years.

In my opinion, Angel getting cancelled merely reinforced his views that he was better off out of TV and that he should be make movies instead.

We will not see a new Joss tv series for at least 5 years. His heart is now in movies and comic books.
Sent my e-mail and requested a Spike, Faith, and Illyria show. Just a small attempt to not fade away.
Again though guys, don't miss the point of this and not send an email because you don't think a new series is likely, that isn't what this should be about.

Send your emails to prove a point, that the WB made a massive error in judgment last year by cancelling Angel. That we are still dedicated to a series that ended a year ago whilst the fans of their currently running shows are losing interest. That is what is really important here. Whether a new show happens any time soon is neither here nor there.
"We will not see a new Joss tv series for at least 5 years. His heart is now in movies and comic books"

I will never be able to believe that. I'm in denial

brownishcoat: im sure that if Ripper was made in the UK, at least one of the television networks will pick it up!

So Joss that leaves you no excuse! You must begin writing Ripper!

[ edited by Apocalypse on 2005-03-01 20:29 ]
I sent her a long and heartfelt email (just as I did last year) to save Firefly and Angel (well, not save them, but give them an "honorable mention").
Kris said: "usually they're implying that film is a more legitimate storytelling medium than television" Okay y'know what? It's not a matter of it being more or less legitimate. It's a matter of censorship and lucrative financial boundaries. Television suffers more from the FCC and other interests that are schizophrenic and hypocritical in deciding what's suitable entertainment. Whedon doesn't need that kind of compromising headache crap. In a film he's got more leeway to be creative, and there's a lot more money involved for a lot less overall effort. He can spend months or years if necessary to get one installment of a story right, as opposed to weeks or more often days in television, to rush something through a painful gauntlet of censors and accountants and executive know-it-alls and other suits. Like I said: Whedon's Too Big For TV. He always has been.

Apocalypse, Dushku had her chance. She blew it. It's Marsters turn at the helm. I agree that RIPPER would be the ultimate best option of all options, but unless the production was filmed practically in ASH's backyard, I doubt he'd be interested.

Actually I know precisely how Spike can be changed again to make him very interesting. Give him what Angel was seeking all those years. In the pilot episode, Spike goes from being a vampire to being a human. The Pinocchio Syndrome. All those silly prophecies Angel was chasing all those years come true: but not to Angel. Spike gets to be a real live boy!

Only there's a problem. He can't let anybody know. All the people on both sides of good and evil can't know that he's now powerless. If the bad guys that are after him knew he couldn't vamp out, they'd kill him, and if the good guys knew, they'd kill him too. Well, except for Willow. She uses her powers to help support the illusion that Spike's still powerful, only she doesn't do it quite right and hilarious antics ensue.

If we couldn't get Alyson Hannigan, we could introduce a new character vaguely like Willow who'd operate basically as Spike's mystical foil and stand at his side when the rest of the world remains against him. ...Emma Caulfield maybe? We'd have to retrofit Anyanka though, cuz she's sorta dead. All kindsa possibilities there. I explained one of many possibilities, but then deleted it. Suffice to say, there's ways to write Anya back from the dead. Or we could invent an entirely new character that any new actress can play.

However, I always liked the chemistry between Marsters and Hannigan, those few times when they did scenes opposite one another? Wondrous. Season four for example when he tried to bite her but coudn't because of the implant? Or season seven when nobody could see Willow but crazed Spike was able to sort of communicate with her? Those two are just magic together.

I don't mean there'd EVER be a romantic thing between them. D'Hoffryn forbid! Willow's still gay now and tho human, Spike's still a hound dog who Willow wouldn't find interesting romantically even if she were still straight. Regardless, the actors make for great dramatic and comedic talents and would light up the little screen together quite beautifully. Besides, both characters would be open with romantic interests separate from one another, making for a greater variety of interactions. Kennedy would still be in the mix, but only peripherally. Willow and Kennedy would be on again off again. Personally I liked Kennedy, but most fans apparently don't so Willow would need to be open to other relationships. And heck, Bloody William would still be after anything in a skirt, and some things not in a skirt.

There's still a wealth of possibilities with Spike. His rich history only reinforces that.
ZachsMind, regarding the wealth of possibilities for Spike. I could not agree more. Any half decent writer could take the character in a number of new directions, all it takes is a little talent and imagination.

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