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"All Nancy-Boy Wolverine."
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March 02 2005

James Marsters still game for Spike telepic. "As long as I could do it within, say, the next four or five years; past that, I'm too old. Spike's a vampire, man, and I've got high standards".

I'm assuming there's been a press event for Cool Money. So expect to see in the next couple of weeks, a few websites running interviews with James. Kristen at E!Online is promising an interview with him on Friday/Saturday.

ohh thanks for that Simon,nothing different to what he's said in the past but it's always nice to hear it again!
Good to know!

I've always believed that James (and Spike) was the best bet for resurrecting the slayerverse sooner rather than later. He is, without a doubt, the most dedicated to his character at this point, not to mention argueably the most popular character outside of the big two.

Also, it's nice to know that he considers a four or five year window possible for returning to the role. It could easily take a few years to get this to happen so if James is currently okay with waiting that long then there is a much better chance of it going ahead when all the pieces fall into place. Looking forward to hearing more comments about this.
A ray of light from James, I too think he is 'most dedicated to his character'. I would love to see him (or any reg) in a tv movie.
Further down we have: "Question: Jessica Biel as Wonder Woman (Entertainment News 2/22)? Seriously? I guess Joss Whedon doesn't want it to be a good movie. Lauren Graham would have been perfect. Is it too late? — Lindsay

Ausiello: Actually, I'm told that Jessica is actually producer Joel Silver's first choice — not Joss's. I'm hearing Mr. Whedon's wish list looks a little different — which would explain why he has yet to officially sign on as the pic's writer/director"


Surely if they want Joss badly enough they'll just let him have who he wants. Otherwise just pick someone less creative who they can control and be done with it.
You gotta love Ausiello, and his persistence. I love how he throws the ball back in Janollari's court. Remember when this guy took over the reins at the WB how much he gushed on Angel and then gave 'lip service' to the promised movies? So much for getting more in tune with what the veiwers and fans really want.

Still I am so happy that James remains interested. He really loves the character of Spike, and he knows the fans would love to see a movie or spinoff. Honestly, I think James is a gorgeous man and he had aged far more gracefully than most guys his age in Hollywood. I prefer him over all the 'A' list hunks. Sorry...you can have Brad Pitt, Colin Farrel, Affleck....and all the others...I'll take James anytime.....
Ok we are a year out and the WB is in finanical trouble as it is - so I will not be holding my breath for them to make a Spike movie, period. But TNT on the other hand, has made a profit the last few years - they also made two Pretender movies after they went off the air on NBC a campaign aimed at them might get a Spike movie made - since they do have the budget for some TV movies. Not to mention moving it to a cable channel will for the time being keep the FCC off their back for any potential violations for language, sex, or violence.

[ edited by RavenU on 2005-03-02 15:47 ]
Well said, kathylovesspike, James does love the character and he also loves working with Joss. If he says he could realistically play the character of Spike for another for another four to five years, I for one, fully believe him. He was looking very fine when I saw him last at the Halloween Convention in October !
I'm in love! Even if this never happens, I will always love James for his willingness to reprise the role and make a lot of fans very happy.
Nicely said, RavenU.

Quite honestly, at the risk of cutting off my nose to spite my face, i really don't want the WB to benefit from a Spike movie at this point. I certainly wouldn't boycott it if they went ahead and made one but i really don't believe that they deserve it after the way they treated us last year. Besides, like you i don't believe they they really have the interest or the financial means right now regardless.

The TNT idea is very possible and, given the fact now that both Joss and James have recently stated an interest in doing more with Spike, now may be as good a time as idea to let TNT know that the interest is there. As you say, it worked for The Pretender.
James, I love you. Just wanted to say that. (also Ausellio isn't bad, either)
Maybe TNT or the other cable stations are a more viable solution. What about FX...is that the FOX cable station? Yes I agree that the WB probably wouldn't do this film anyway....maybe they won't be in business long enough to even think of doing it, with the way things are going for them now. If Joss would just have some time to work this out and we could sell the idea to the cable staions...maybe we'll have a chance.

And to all of those who love James....God I do too. He will always love Spike, and I know I'll always love them both.
Maybe if nothing else, the publicity and buzz this generates will get James noticed and hopefully we will see some more projects for him soon. I could look at that man all day......
Yes but TNT already owns Angel syndication rights and are more than likely to pick up something like this, that is the same thing they did with the Pretender. FX is more interested in doing orignal edgy programs, they are not big on the TV movie front.
I do not care if SPIKE is featured on the 700-club :-)
I want Spike or Faith..or, heck Mr. Pee-pee even, back on TV!!
Sounds good RavenU! Okay fans lets target TNT. Since they own the syndication rights to Angel, they may be open to Faith, Illyria and some other favorite characters as well. I may be a Spike fan, but I love all the characters and would love to see as many as possible return to our tv screens. The current attention to Spike is just a way to get our foot in the door.
"...and I've got high standards."

His post-Angel career so far has consisted of a guest spot on The Mountain and a made-for-TV movie on the USA network. His standards can't be *that* high. :}
What I wonder is, though most of the fans are very supportive of a Spike telemovie, is anything really going on with it? I mean, we hear Joss and James both saying they're up for it, but...is anything happening? Neither of those guys get the final word on if it happens, so I'm wondering if the people who would be responsible for putting it together are actually doing anything? I know there are fan campaigns and all that good stuff, but are the right people doing the right things to make it happen? Are the pitchers pitching, so to speak? I get the distinct feeling that on all sides it's kind of like, "Yeah, that would be great...Anyhoo..." Maybe more or less paying lip service to the fans.

I mean, they know there is fan support. They know the actor is willing. They know the creator is willing. And with as poorly as some of the writers are doing, I'd bet anything they are willing too. Does Joss need to start the process? And if he does, is he too busy right now?

I've always felt there was a time limit on this, and I'm not surprised to see James agrees. But in 2 years, will the enthusiasm wane for a Spike movie? Because, really, I don't think you can get fans more hyped for something than after the outrage of a premature cancellation. When there was desire and energy. And naturally, now the tide ebbs. A few groups are sending flowers and cards. In a year, that probably will trickle away. I just think the suits are waiting the fans out. If they really wanted to do this, something would be in the works. They don't. And not to be cynical, but maybe Joss and James aren't as enthusiastic as we'd like to think, but they say what they do because they know there isn't much of a chance. I don't think for a second either would back out if it were a go, but they're both moving on. James wants to get away from the typecasting, Joss is into comics and movies. I just wonder if this would be a step backwards in their careers(Not that James is doing that great, but still...)

I don't know. For all the 'good news' on this front, I still see nothing happening. Wishing doesn't make it so.
I get your point, Rogue Slayer, and i can appreciate your scepticism given all the empty gestures we have heard this last year. However i don't believe that either Joss or James would lead the fans on if they thought it could never happen.

As you say, it will take more than just Joss and James' willingness to continue to make anything happen however. But ultimately any news at this point is good news and having the two most important people onboard is definately a plus for when and if things do go ahead.

The way i see it, these days the fan community is key to making anything happen. If there is no interest shown then there will most certainly be no future Spike movie happening. That goes without saying. I would have to imagine that Joss is the guy who will have to get the ball rolling, it's his slayerverse afterall. Until he has time to dedicate to this i would imagine nothing will happen. However, if we can lay the groundwork by getting the likes of TNT interested, hopefully this would facilitate things later down the line.

As for fan interest waning, for most shows i would agree, however there is something unique about Buffy and Angel that i would honestly say hasn't occured since Star Trek in the sixties. There is a dedication here that, i believe at least, will last for a very long time to come.

There are a lot of factors to this happening, we just need to play our part i guess, at least that way we know we did all we could.
I love James. I love Spike. I just think however Spike as a TV Movie or Spin-Off, would be an Angel rehash. "Ensouled Vampire Seeking Redemption." I watched that for 5 seasons, I want something different. Spike can be in someone else's spin-off or movie, but on his own as a main character, his arc of redemption would be far too much like Angel's.

[ edited by BurkleFreak on 2005-03-02 17:59 ]
I don't think Spike would really be seeking Redemption. That's what made the Spike/Angel dynamic interesting.
See, that is exactly the opposite to what i believe BurkleFreak.

Spike is not Angel and he is not seeking redemption so much as now choosing to do the right thing. He is not racked with guilt over his passed evil deeds, he has just decided to be a hero for it's own sake. Because of that he is not going to be following the same path as Angel.

Even if he was though, who is to say he would make the same choices that Angel made and where the choices he does decide to make will lead him to.

Beyond them both being vampires and both having had their souls restored they are incredibly different people. To think otherwise is the same as suggesting that just because you and i are both humans with souls then we are both going to make the same choices and have the same life story, which clearly is not the case. Give Spike, or more to the point the writers, a chance to surprise you because i think there is still a lot to tell regarding Spike and his development.

Boy, i'm posting a lot in this thread. Anyone get the feeling i'm really wanting a Spike project to happen?
I'm confident that Joss has enough ideas in the genius head of his that the story he told about Spike wouldn't simply be a rehash of Angel - these are very different vampires.
Rogue Slayer, you hit the nail on the head and this is why I'm still steamed at the WB. Since David Janollari has taken over, he has been pouring out all of this positive talk on the possibility of an Angel/Spike movie,ect. I can recall one interview where he said he was in talks with Joss. Yet, both Joss and James have said that they've not heard from the WB since the Angel series ended. IMO, I think David is just paying lip service to the masses in hopes the heat will die down soon. And I smile everytime an interviewer, such as Ausiello, calls his bluff. No wonder the WB is folding over. Someone should tell the man that Joss flans have very good memories.

I've no doubt Joss and James would like to do a movie if a network would show interest and support for said project. What RavenU said earlier about TNT was a thought that didn't occur to me before. I think I would have more hope for that than the WB. But, in all honesty, I doubt a Spike movie will ever see the light of day.
"
His post-Angel career so far has consisted of a guest spot on The Mountain and a made-for-TV movie on the USA network. His standards can't be *that* high. :}
PMMJ | March 02, 17:23 CET "


Well I rather think his high standards are evidenced in the roles he's turning down rather than the roles he's accepting. He has said at cons that he's p*ssing off his management by turning down projects... we know he turned down "Point Pleasant" and he's said that he's not interested in playing vampires. rock stars or drug dealers . He's also said that he wants to take character roles for a couple of years to build a reputation outside the genre.

I presume that he saw something he liked in the roles he was offered on The Mountain and Cool Money and honestly , much as I want to see him on my screen I'd rather he was choosy and didn't just do stuff for the sake of working

but a Spike movie on whatever channel would be wonderful!
But ultimately any news at this point is good news and having the two most important people onboard is definately a plus for when and if things do go ahead.


Well, to my knowledge, they've been on board for a year now. And this is still where we're at. And just recently the big cheese was pretending he didn't know people were interested. Like I said, I think it's just not going to happen, as much as I wish it would.

I don't think Joss and James are leading fans on either. Leading us on would be saying, "It's probably going to happen soon." All they are saying is that they're up for it if it does happen. And I think they both know the odds of it happening are low, but they'd still do it. So they're not lying or anything, but I think it's really easy to pretend to be enthusiastic when you think something's not going to happen. BTW, enthusiastic may be the wrong word, all either one of them has said is that they'd like it to happen and they'd be involved.

But like I said, we're a full year away from the cancellation, and the suits are pretending the thought never occured to them. It's not a priority. And as far as it moving to TNT or something...I think that would have to be a big pitch undertaking by Joss(or someone on his behalf) and I don't see that happening. Joss is a busy man right now. A Spike movie doesn't seem like his priority, particularly if he has to invest even more time in it just finding an interested network. It would be one thing if a network was begging Joss for it, but it would be the other way around. I think maybe Joss is tired of begging networks to acknowlege his stuff. And I don't blame him.
Has the idea of doing telemovies on UPN been ruled out? Because the telemovies, if not directly centered around Angel could be on UPN by all means. They had Buffy for two years, and both Faith and Spike were on that show. I'm not sure about rights and what not, but it seems feasible. Wasn't UPN ready to go ahead with the Faith and Spike spinoff series before Eliza joined Tru Calling?
Spike is not Angel and I don't think that anything Spike would be like Angel. And if there's one critique I have on an otherwise flawless AS5 was that I thought there connection between the two was a bit lame. Funny at times, but a bit lame. It could have been better IMO.

Spike as a movie would work better than a Spin Off though. I always Spike as an 'on the road' type of character, instead of staying on one place. I can imagine that this would be too expensive for a Spin Off and therefore a movie would be better. And maybe his movie could be the start for another Spin-Off . . .

The only left is to have some interesting character to join his ride.
Again i get your points Rogue Slayer, and i can't really say anything you said is wrong. However i do get the feeling that you, not to mention a number of others, are letting the WB's lies and empty promises cloud your judgment as far as the bigger picture is concerned.

The thing that i liked most about James' comment, not to mention what Joss said recently, isn't that it suggests things are going to happen today, it's that they both still want to do more given the opportunity. I truly believe that if they, and Joss especially, thought that there was little or no chance of anything happening, they would make that abundently clear to us. The fact that they don't only tells me that they don't know either way yet, same as the rest of us.

Yes, we are a full year after the cancellation. What does that really mean though? Not much really. And yes, the WB execs are still talking their usual nonsense. Also not that big a deal as none of us want the WB involved anyway.

We have known for a while now that nothing would happen in the first year due to Joss' other commitments, among other obstacles. Don't let that dampen your spirits for the future though.
Sorry Mosh, dont want to dampen your optimism but JM and Joss are both very fan friendly ( and we love them for it). This means that they have understod the fundamental rule of never giving bad news to the fans unless they absolutely have to. Personally I wish they spelled out the facts of life a little bit clearer but that might be just me, a lot of fans probably want the possibility of something happening rather than a more definite 'not gonna happen in the next couple of years, enjoy the DVD's'.
Frankly, At the end of Angel, Joss had several thoughts of continuing the 'verse. He had the Faith show in his head and pitched it. Didn't happen because Eliza turned it down. (Not blaming her, that was her choice and I understand her reasons. Gotta wonder if she regrets it now though) He talked to James about doing a Spike movie, he talked in interviews about other character movies. It didn't happen. Networks played coy and tossed out vague 'maybes' or even the infamous 'huh didn't even know' nonsense later on. Couple that with Reality TV being king at the time, and TV land being a bit inhospitable to scripted shows (especially genre), it looks like Joss got fed up and gave up on TV for a while. (Shown by the dismantling of ME)

So now he does comics and movies and who knows what'll happen in a few years. Scripted TV is on the way back, and Reality shows are finally slipping, so....who knows. But right now I wouldn't hold my breath. Just not gonna happen in the near future.

Although I would concede that if a network called Joss now and said they'd want a Spike movie, he'd still do it. Maybe not completely a write-and-direct, but maybe just write, or plot and have a Jane E or David F write it out. Something like that is possible, but since it involves INITIATIVE on the part of a network, I'm not exactly putting it high on the possibilities list.

For the record I agree with James that after a point he shouldn't be Spike anymore. And also on the 'let's come up with a reason why Spike looks old' stuff. Don't want to see it really. There are basic points about vamps and their eternal youth is one of them. Sure you can make a final story about a shanshued and now mortal old-man Spike, which could be an interesting project, but it's not really what I'm thinking of when I say 'I'd like to see a Spike TV movie'.

In Angel S5, Spike finally found purpose in his newly souled life outside of pleasing Buffy or some other woman. I'd love to see how that affects him and where he'd go next. That's the movie I'd want to see.
I canīt imagine new adventures for him, and i canīt imagine new development for him too.
I loved Spike, donīt get me wrong. But i always will say, for me, Spike is done since Chosen.

I prefer something like "the Spike & Dru years".
well Joss had had ideas for a couple more seasons of Ats,
so I don't really thinks it matters if the rest of us can't imagine new adventures,
the point is that Joss can.
When he'll have the time to do another BtVS/Ats project,
and whether it will be on network TV, cable, and/or big screen,
doesn't matter to me.
It doesn't matter to me if Spike has Shanshued or not...
it only matters that Joss still has ideas in his head,
and I want to see them!
But no station wants another Jossverse tv show. That's why they were cancelled. So how do people except another spinoff? It's not like people decided to quit, they were fired and no other network stepped up.
And the movie has never been started either even though David Boreanaz said he would do one and Sarah probably would if it were B/A. The option has been on the table for a year. It's not going to happen.
The only thing I care is about is that Joss has ideas but he's not telling us and he probably never will.
Sarah is only willing to do a Buffy movie if it is B/A? I had not heard this. Too bad, because I definitely don't get the impression Joss would be ever do any such thing. Anybody (including Sarah)looking for more B/A (or B/S for that matter)is going to have to stick with their favorite fanfic writer.

I would love to see a movie. I'd be happy with a movie, whether David B and SMG were in it or not. I love the "secondary" characters, like Spike, Willow, Faith - every bit as much. James sounds sincere in his interest, but Joss! Will he get the time and level of interest needed?
What would be just as cool, would be if somehow Joss aquired the rights to take The Prisoner and turn it into a motion picture, then cast James Marsters in the lead role.

Of course, a Spike-centric telepic would be nice too. We'll take what we can get, I suppose.
What? A Buffyverse movie that doesn't focus on Buffy's love life?! Say it ain't so!

I would certainly hope that any Buffyverse movie would focus on the characters and a good plot rather than trying to resolve 'Who will she pick' because seriously, as much as I loved Bangel and Spuffy, our characters are bigger and richer than that the shipper wars. Here's hoping for a movie where Buffy has a mature relationship with both men, but doesn't end up with either one. Because our guys really need to find someone worthy of them. And someone who's fully baked.
Charisma said:

"But no station wants another Jossverse tv show. That's why they were cancelled. So how do people except another spinoff? It's not like people decided to quit, they were fired and no other network stepped up.
And the movie has never been started either even though David Boreanaz said he would do one and Sarah probably would if it were B/A. The option has been on the table for a year. It's not going to happen."


No station wants another Jossverse show? I must have missed that press release because i don't remember there ever being a statement where every station dismissed Joss' shows for all time.

All we know is that they didn't want Angel, and given the fact that it had two seasons at best left to run, it is hardly surprising that they weren't all that interested. None of them (except the WB of course) have been asked about a new show or telemovie series though, at least as far as i'm aware.

What isn't in dispute is that the big four networks all demand ratings from their shows that a slayerverse show may not be able to muster. Having said that, seeing as how a slayerverse show has never had chance to prove itself on a network that has the kind of nationwide coverage that the big four can offer, who is to say how a show set in the slayerverse would do if given that kind of potential audience?

That is beside the point though because Fox, ABC, NBC and CBS aren't going to give Joss the chance, we all know this, and neither the WB nor UPN have the finance or desire to do so either.

However, as i've said before, and as RavenU stated earlier, there are other, much better options available. TNT, Sci Fi or HBO are all prospective homes for a new show, and none of them have turned Joss down so far. Who is to say what they would say if asked.
Personally any future BuffyVerse story that focuses on Buffy will probably not interest me much. I was always more fascinated by the people around her, and I've never been a great fan of SMG as an actress. She's okay in terms of acting but nothing fantastic. What made her look as great as she appeared for seven years were the powerful talents both in front of the camera and behind the scenes supporting her. She was a very lucky actor. I hope she appreciated that every day, and still remembers it fondly now.

Whedon mentions her briefly in the commentary on one of the Firefly discs, when he explains that one day he was watching the monitor during a take for Buffy, and found himself almost impulsively waving at the monitor in reaction to something Gellar had done in the performane. It was in that moment he realized Gellar was quite literally 'star quality' because she engenders that sort of reaction from the viewer. He had a similar moment with Nathan Fillion during the filming of the Firefly pilot.

However, there's a difference in performance 'muscles' between Star Quality and actual acting chops. Fillion's got both in spades. Gellar's a remarkable performer but not as convincing an actor. Granted, my theory doesn't hold up to close scrutiny. Gellar had seven years of moderate, favorable success taking point in a television series. Fillion couldn't take the same position for a whole season. In my defense, I say there were political issues with Firefly that even BtVS couldn't have survived.
Joss has said multiple times that after the cancellation of Angel he was given the opportunity to develop a new series, and found that he couldn't create something that would interest both the networks and himself.

It was a different time then (like 10 months ago?). This was before scripted television started making a comeback. I expect that it may be possible the networks would be interested in something Joss would create now. I imagine that if Serenity does well in the box office (critically or monetarily) the general feeling will be the FOX screwed up, not Joss, and that will put him in very high demand.

Of course there's also the fact that he's busy with other projects.
Well I profoundly disagree with your appraisal of SMG's acting abilities, ZachsMind. Definitely, the people around her made her shine. I believe that she made them look good too. I'm not sure what "lucky actor" means, or how to parse the difference between "performer" and "actor"; I will say that some of her appearances, whether she was "performing" or "acting," just reached in and pulled my heart out. Others made me truly believe in the character and what she was going through. That's all I personally ask for in an actor.
Are the naysayers suggesting that nothing should be done at all? Joss shouldn't bother publically saying that he wants a Spike movie. James shouldn't bother saying he'd like to reprise the role. Fans shouldn't waste their time wishing that it will happen. To me, listing the reasons why it won't happen is the least productive thing to do. Surely letting it be known that the project is wanted makes it more likely to happen than doing nothing. Personally, I'll take a slim chance over no chance.
Well, I personally just think nothing will happen. I've never said people shouldn't do whatever they want to encourage the projects. I interpret the signs a certain way, differently than some, and say what it looks like to me. I think there is probably as much chance of getting a Spike telemovie as there was of saving Angel. Doesn't mean I think people should stop trying. I fought for Angel, against the odds. People should fight for what they believe in. I just personally don't see this happening, for the various reasons I've talked about above. But no, I still say wishing doesn't make something happen. I mean, I still wish myself...I just don't fight anymore.
I like your jaundiced eye, Rogue Slayer. You are just being pragmatic, and as most of us know, there isn't a bigger fan of the 'verse around than yourself. I agree with your posts.

Although I love to wax rhapsodic about all Whedonhood, including any possible future incarnations, the realist in me sees the truth in what you say.
It didn't become news because of fans wishing, it came from fans doing something about it. After all, it was fans who asked Ausiello to mention the idea to Janollari. Will anything come of it? I don't know. I share the belief that its unlikely, but that's not enough to make me stop pushing in any small way that I can.
After all, it was fans who asked Ausiello to mention the idea to Janollari.

Yeah, but now you're operating under the idea that Janollari *actually* had never thought about it, which I think is ridiculous. But you keep pushing, I'll keep wishing, and maybe something will come! If there were more indication that fan effort might make something more likely, I'd be right up there, sending postcards and whatnot. I guess I got burned by the whole Angel thing.

I like your jaundiced eye, Rogue Slayer

God, I hope jaundice of the eye isn't contagious! ; P


and as most of us know, there isn't a bigger fan of the 'verse around than yourself.

Well, I don't know how one measures 'fannyness', but if it's ranked on actual size of the fanny...yeah, I'm up there! :)
Hey now, to hear your renowned husband tell it, you are perfect, including your - er- fannyness... And don't you know that no self-deprecating remarks are allowed here? Its all about the braggadocio and the presumed intellect! ;)
For any UK-based people this thread has suddenly become most disturbing :)
Yeah, but now you're operating under the idea that Janollari *actually* had never thought about it

Not really, I know better than that. I think the fans in question know better too. It was just a way to make him address the issue and give the idea some attention, if not by the WB then maybe having it in the press would catch the eye of someone else who could do something about it. Unlikely, I know. Worth a shot? Sure.

I understand though. The efforts to save Angel were extraordinary and I'm still a bit shellshocked a year later that we didn't get the result we wanted. It was one of our finest hours though wasn't it? I'm so proud to be a part of this fandom. I'm glad we were able to lift the spirits of all those great people who brought the show to us each week. We did good. We can do good still.
Paul_Rocks - Australians are right there with your disturbance.

Willowy & Rogue Slayer - you need to know that 'size of fannyness' is definitely an adult topic in Australia!
Is he kidding...?

Cuz if not? Oh. My. Goddess. *rolls eyes*
Willowy - no joke really.
It is one of the sources of amusement here when American tourists refer to their fanny packs - "What, you Americans get everything to go , now you pack your ..... to go? I mean, doesn't it sort of go with you anyway?"
Ok, but um...you are aware that this isn't exactly a children's weblog, right? That grownups come here to discourse?

Please don't try to tell me that this is all of a sudden a G-rated board? We throw out a cuss here and there, and talk about very adult themes. Catalyst2, you know this. What are you doing?
RavenU said:
Not to mention moving it to a cable channel will for the time being keep the FCC off their back for any potential violations for language, sex, or violence.


Not for long. Check out this article. They want to put the chains on Cable too.
SoddingNancyTribe, I'm not saying she's a horrible actress. There are moments, particularly in season six, when SMG really affected me on a visceral level and was quite believable. It's just that those moments, for me, are fewer and further apart than say with Amber Benson, or James Marsters. Anthony Stewart Head was perhaps the best actor of the lot, because he combined external and internal acting talents superbly. His business with the glasses for example; genius.

For me, Gellar's style of acting is more of a star quality thing. She generally needs more outside help to get her where other actors can go without. That's all. Marlon Brando had the same problem. Star Quality most definitely, but his actual 'acting' was more external and pretentious, i.e., 'performing' rather than acting. Nothing to be ashamed of, certainly.

As for this fanny pack argument? You guys lost me awhile back. No profanity? What? Not sure what your gorram problem is.
Willowy - Adult themes, of course - I too throw in the occasional "Fuck" when I am lost for words, frustrated etc. It is just that the context becomes very warped by this type of potential linguistic/cultural misunderstanding. I would contribute to the discussion - if we are talking about how big a fan someone is, I can contribute to that but if we are discussing the size of someone's vagina, I need to bow out for a few moments until we get to a topic that I can contribute to.

[ edited by catalyst2 on 2005-03-03 06:15 ]
*sigh*

I'd love to see Spike again. I really miss him. In fact, I think I miss him more than any of the other Jossverse characters. I don't much care when or how it happens (this alleged movie), so long as Spike is played by James Marsters and written by Joss Whedon (or, possibly, Jane Espenson.)

If it doesn't happen.. well, I'll just have to fanfic my fandom away. Forever. For the rest of my life. Until I die. (Note to Whedon: I am tripping the guilt. Can you tell?)

I wonder how much I'd have to pay JM to come to my house and just stalk around my living room in the coat, swearing in an English accent? He wouldn't have to do it for long.. just until the batteries ran out. (In my CAMCORDER, you pervert.)
rolling eyes...seriously, catalyst2...give me a break.

SMG never fails to give me a moving and flawless performance.

If Joss wants a show on the networks, he'll do it. Getting a show on the network is one thing, keeping it on is another.
Bad Kitty: "I wonder how much I'd have to pay JM to come to my house and just stalk around my living room in the coat, swearing in an English accent?"

ROTFLMAO! Oh that's priceless. Loved that!

Personally I wish I had gazillions of dollars and a time machine, so I could hire James Marsters to go back in time, beat the ever lovin' crap out of Keanu Reeves, and take his place in the movie Constantine! Then I'd offer Amber Benson gazillions of dollars to wear a corset and float over my bed.
Well, I think the "fanny" discussion started out as a light-hearted cultural-misunderstanding sorta joke, and now threatens to rile everyone. For the record, I don't believe catalyst2 was really expressing annoyance or antagonism with his initial posts about, um, fanny packs. Not sure about that last post though . . .

However, it is worth us statesiders bearing in mind that "fanny" in the UK and Australia is pretty much analogous to a certain 4-letter C word, so it is a bit disconcerting for Brits and Aussies to hear the term thrown about with such abandon. 'Course, our Brit and Aussie members need to bear in mind that it is a perfectly normal everyday word for the Americanos, and that taking offense is a little bit OTT.

So that's all clear then.

(Added) Ah, ZM, I think I see what you're saying with the acting/performing thing. I don't think I have the vocabulary, or perhaps the perception, necessary to really tease out the difference between the two. For me, I guess it just comes down to how an actor makes me *feel.* On that score, I rate SMG as highly as ASH or JM. But you may well be right about internal v. external acting chops . . .
Well...whenever I hear Fat Bottomed Girls I'll have a whole new meaning for that line "Left alone with big fat Fanny..."

Sorry guys. It just means tooshie over here. Didn't mean to start an international conflict. : P
Thanks for the bail SNT - it was never intended to rile or offend - just comment....

Rogue Slayer - I think it was more me than you - apologies all around!

*slinks off to the corner to lick wounds*
Yeah fanny is slang for a certain organ of women that is private. Its ok, even us americans can get chuckle at something the east-worlders say like whenever I hear someone say "I need to smoke a fag". Definitely head turner when I first heard it.
Sizes of bodyparts aside.... Although always interesting to learn other countries' idom and slang....I thought the british and american difference of the word 'fag' was protentially explosive, but now this 'fanny' thing... Oh Eddy already mentioned that I see. Anyway, my personal categories for acting talent are a little different than the ones mentioned. (Btw, as soon as something is outwardly visible, isn't it automatically 'external'?)

To me most actors fall in two basic categories (Just talking about GOOD ones btw. Bad actors are just a category apart):

1- The ones that can convincingly act the *emotion* of the character in the story.

2- The ones that can do that, but can also convincingly be a completely different type of person.

Now most decent to good actors fall into the first category. The latter is the rarest. It takes acting down to the smallest details of your body language and voice. Take Sean Connery. I enjoy seeing him in movies, but he's more about charisma than acting. He can do emotions when pressed, but he's always pretty much the same type of person to me. Same goes for a George Clooney, Bruce Willis, etc.

(And again, these are all actors I like. Not dissing anyone)

Then there's guys who *can* do it, like Brando, Pacino or DeNiro, Olivier, but who are so charismatic and become so big, that they don't always have to. They get away with being on autopilot. All of these guys have made stinkers where they just phoned it in. (And were sometimes still great fun to watch) But they can do it. Compare Brando's Streetcar to his Godfather to his Last Tango. Or Pacino's Dog Day, Godfather and Scent of a Woman. (And please ignore Missouri Breaks, Island of Dr Moreau, Simone and the Recruit.....really.) Jack Nicholson can do it (look at Hoffa) but hardly EVER does because he's fun enough for most movies as just good 'ole Jack. (Hey, I'd do it)

Others that can do it are Kevin Spacey, Ed Norton, Meryl Streep, Tony Hopkins, Kathy Bates...With the Buffy actors I have to say I don't really know yet because with most of them I've never seen them do anything else. I have to give it to James, who's had to act very different personalities just in the show, and seeing him in real life, as well as in Chance, I'd have to say he might be a contenda there (pun intended). Tony Head, yeah quite possibly. He is excellent with the use of body language. Alexis, maybe... David, don't think so...

With SMG, I don't know. She sure can act the emotion (and specializes in heartbreak and sadness which must've been really helpful in this particular show...) but from what I've seen of her in other things, she usually appears as to me the same old Sarah in many ways of 'type'. The Grudge wasn't a good way to tell because there wasn't much to do for her but be worried and scared, but...I don't know.

Hard to say because most of these guys don't get the opportunity and even then they often are just typecast.
I like your categories, Ed, and I concur that most of the verse actors haven't been given, or haven't chosen, varying enough roles. But I'd maintain that the SMG of Cruel Intentions v. Harvard Man v. Simply Irresistible v. the several quite distinct roles she played in BtVS (regular Buffy, Buffybot, Faith-in-Buffy etc.) demonstrate that she has range. As much as Pacino or De Niro or Streep? We haven't seen that yet, for sure. Few actors are completely chameleonic. But I think of Sarah as potentially on a par with Jodie Foster - to me, JF doesn't *disappear* into a role so much that you forget who the actress is, but she does take it over and deliver an absolutely convincing performance. That's why I'm hoping that SMG - and the other great verse actors - will dare to take on more challenging out-there roles to give us both the emotion and the character details.
Oops, clearly didn't mean to start such a debate about the use of the word fanny. As SNT said, it was just meant to be a joke. I obviously take no offense in it's use (either side of the atlantic). In fact there's no word in existance that could give me offense as they're just words.

On the SMG acting debate, I have to agree with SNT, the difference in SMG as the Buffybot and Faith-in-Buffy was a sign of the 2nd of Ed's catagories. I thought she mimicked Eliza perfectly, which is maybe not quite the same as out and out acting as different charcaters, but throw in Cruel Intentions and Harvard Man and I'm convinced.
Have to agree with Paul_Rocks. Having just read through the last twenty or so posts in this topic i was very surprised to see where the conversation had gone to. Admittedly i probably know a little more about the U.S. than the average Brit, due to the fact that i love the United States a great deal, it gave birth to pretty much all my heroes after all, but i was really amazed that the whole dual meaning to the word "fanny" wasn't common knowledge to everyone these days.

Again, like Paul_Rocks, words don't offend me in the least but i like to at least try consider other peoples feelings on the matter. I don't think i swear a great deal but when neccessary i am known to use whatever bad language seems appropriate for the given situation. There are times when you REALLY need to swear, let's be honest. Having said that, personally i don't see the need to swear on a posting board. To me it's acceptable in the heat of the moment or between friends who share your "language limitations" but there is little or no need when you are typing something on to a computer screen that anyone of any age has access to.

There again, the word "fanny" is hardly the most offensive word in the world so i don't see that it was ever such a big deal, but again, that is just about individual opinions on swearing i guess.
I have to agree with SNT here. I think SMG is a wonderful actress and just with the "roles" she's had to play on BtVS show what a fantastic range she has.
Actually meant to include that myself in my previous post and forgot all about it with the whole swearing debacle.

I agree that Sarah is a fantastic actress. Okay, maybe not the best the world has ever seen yet but she is still young, give her time! ;)
You say the characters around SMG made the show shine yet you're anti shippy. I don't understand that at all. And yes. SMG wouldn't if it weren't B/A because she said she felt the Spike stuff was out of character and even in Chosen she didn't understand why she was supposed to say "I love you" to Spike.

Ok I guess everyone wanted to pick up Joss's show. They just forgot to call. And UPN wouldn't want a show with 2 years left. No way.
Joss Whedon said he thought about his next series and couldn't think of an idea. I don't remember reading anyone volunteered to pick it up though.
Charisma, current UPN execs have made it clear in the past that they don't neccessarily consider taking Buffy for it's final two seasons the wisest decision that the network ever made. As i understand it, with the price they paid per episode, they barely broke even on the show. In fact they may have even made a loss. With that in mind they were hardly likely to want to risk the same again with Angel, especially considering the show had never had the hype that surrounded Buffy. Basically, after what had happened with Buffy, and Roswell for that matter, they were not interested in taking on other networks castoffs for their final seasons.

However, at the time Buffy was coming to an end, UPN did give Joss the opportunity to create a new show for them, at the time it was to be a Faith spinoff. As you no doubt know though Eliza turned down the opportunity for Tru Calling. Since that time Joss has indeed said that he has not come up with a decent idea for a new show. That being the case it is hardly surprising that no network has offered to pick it up, there is nothing to pick up yet.

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