The Conservative Voice reviews Keanu Reeves' "Constantine"
making some lovely references to Buffy. "Mostly, it feels like an episode-any episode-of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Actually, "Buffy" was like Shakespeare compared to this. It's as if they gathered up the dregs of the worst "Buffy" episodes and slung them together in a drunken stupor."
Rude!
March 13 2005
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And, actually, Buffy WAS like Shakespeare. Quite often.
Willowy | March 13, 09:12 CET
zz9 | March 13, 09:29 CET
Although I would imagine I'm in agreement with the reviewer about "Constantine" being worthless--though for different reasons no doubt. Appalling casting.
marmoset | March 13, 09:33 CET
alien lanes | March 13, 09:34 CET
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 10:19 CET
Well, apart from "that one" of course. Don't know what they were thinking about!
zz9 | March 13, 10:33 CET
[ edited by TheJoyofZeppo on 2005-03-13 18:02 ]
TheJoyofZeppo | March 13, 11:02 CET
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 11:45 CET
Rob | March 13, 12:11 CET
zz9 | March 13, 12:13 CET
SoddingNancyTribe | March 13, 12:37 CET
I'm banned aren't I?
zz9 | March 13, 13:00 CET
My bad episodes would be: Restless (no plot, characterizations completely thrown to the wind, totally confusing); Passion (for the cheesy Bladerunner rip-off voiceover); Fool for Love (because who cares about Spike enough to give him his own origin episode, really); and obviously Once More With Feeling. It might have been salvageable if Whedon had got Andrew Lloyd Webber in to Phantom-up the score but alas . . .
SoddingNancyTribe | March 13, 13:08 CET
Personally there are a few episodes that I almost never re-watch, but as others have said, it's pretty subjective. And I will agree with the ol' cliche that bad Buffy is better than almost anything on TV, or even some movies.
Big fat ppphhhttt to this review.
[ edited by dizzy on 2005-03-13 20:15 ]
[ edited by dizzy on 2005-03-13 20:15 ]
Dizzy | March 13, 13:13 CET
marmoset | March 13, 13:16 CET
[ edited by BufSlyAngel on 2005-03-13 20:22 ]
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 13:21 CET
I won't see Constantine simply because they cast Keanu Reeves in the lead role. That's like casting Kirsten Dunst as Miss Jane Marple or Chris Rock as Sherlock Holmes. Nicholas Cage as Superman made more sense than Keanu Reeves as John Constantine! What drugs are they on in Hollywood, anyway?
I'm trying to think of an episode of Buffy I didn't like. One I wouldn't be willing to watch again right now. It's not coming to me. I mean, there are episodes that could have been better perhaps, but when I try to dissect them, I find that even those have an unique charm that I wouldn't want "improved."
Were y'all kidding above? Cuz Hush, Once More With Feeling and Restless are by far some of my personal faves. Maybe it's sarcasm and dry wit you're doin' and it's a lazy Sunday afternoon for me. Not quite grasping the humor.
ZachsMind | March 13, 13:50 CET
I can truthfully say that there isn't a single episode of either Buffy or Angel that i dislike. There are one or two that i look forward to watching less than some others but that goes without saying. Even so, i always watch the two shows together in complete runs, Welcome to the Hellmouth through to Not Fade Away, and never once skip an episode.
The Arcane | March 13, 14:12 CET
englandlass789 | March 13, 14:14 CET
^^This was an emmy award-nominated episode. Personally, I've never heard of someone thinking this as to be a bad episode. I'm praying that was sarcasm...
I think Becoming pt2 was incredible and "and obviously Once More With Feeling"!?!??! Are you insane SNT? Not to be rude, but my mouth dropped when I read that. I hope it was a joke because if not...I'm still speechless...
MySerenity | March 13, 14:24 CET
I do. I think it's a wonderful episode, actually.
I agree with ZachsMind that even the episodes that could have been better have something to offer. There are only two episodes in the whole run of the show that I think slightly failed to achieve their aims, but even these have some tremendous moments and I wouldn't really want to change them.
alien lanes | March 13, 14:32 CET
Still though, like a few other season four episodes, like "Living Conditions" for example, there's a unique charm I wouldn't want 'improved.' Not every episode has to be crystal. Not all of Monet's work was perfect. Especially the stuff late in his life when his eyes were failing him. Still, all his work is beautiful despite its imperfections. You can't have diamonds in the rough without a little rough, y'know whut ah mean?
[ edited by ZachsMind on 2005-03-13 21:38 ]
ZachsMind | March 13, 14:35 CET
charisma | March 13, 14:37 CET
Okay, now I'm just being mean. I know sarcasm is not always easy to pick up on in writing - but I think I'm on record here at Whedonesque as praising those episodes I mentioned to the skies and beyond. What, you mean you don't hang on my every word as chapter and verse? Huh. . . now my opinion of myself has just dropped massively too.
And here I thought the Andrew Lloyd Webber shout-out was a dead giveway.
SoddingNancyTribe | March 13, 14:39 CET
ZachsMind | March 13, 14:41 CET
Angela | March 13, 14:51 CET
zz9 | March 13, 14:53 CET
Reddygirl | March 13, 14:59 CET
Ilana | March 13, 15:34 CET
There were a couple of shows I didn't care for the first time through, but on repeated watchings they've grown on me. Plus, now I need to watch OMWF imagining Andrew Lloyd Webber's song (he only ever wrote one, right?) playing in the background. That probably would have had Buffy shaking in her stylish but affordable shoes.
Biff Turkle | March 13, 15:36 CET
And I thought that maybe the Buffy comparison was meant as a backhanded dig toward the show, which was completely inaccurate and uncalled for.
Mikie | March 13, 15:37 CET
What does everyone think of "Ted", "Bad Eggs", and "Killed by Death"? I personally found they were entertaining, but my friend said they were boring. Then again she said she hated Season Two all together, so.
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 15:40 CET
Ilana, at first i agreed with you on "WTWTA", but after rewatching it, i have come to really appreciate the charm of the episode, even though its not one of my favourites. Even though the storyline involved Buffy and Riley bonking and bonking and bonking...and oh yeah bonking, it was still an enjoyable piece of television
And for the record? I loved Beer Bad ;)
Apocalypse | March 13, 15:43 CET
I just rewatched season 3 to refresh my memory as I'm involved in an ongoing discussion group and again I was struck by the Scoob's (and Joyce's) selfishness.
Reddygirl | March 13, 15:45 CET
I was trying to avoid saying what they were, simply because I don't want to give the impression that I don't like them. I'll happily watch either episode at any time, but I just think they don't quite achieve what they set out to do. Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm talking about 'Where The Wild Things Are' and 'Gone'.
What does everyone think of "Ted", "Bad Eggs", and "Killed by Death"?
Personally, I like them all. In fact, 'Killed By Death' is a particular favourite of mine, although I gather it's not especially popular in general. On this subject, I am also extremely fond of 'Dead Man's Party'. Were I to be forced to pick a 'Top 5' this one would definitely be in there.
This is possibly quite a good illustration of the nature of reviews and why it isn't necessary to pay too much attention to them. One person's George Gershwin is another person's Andrew Lloyd Webber. Sorry SNT, I realise you are clearly a big fan of ALW.
(Where's that irony punctuation mark when I need it?!)
alien lanes | March 13, 16:02 CET
Ilana | March 13, 16:25 CET
LOL! ..That the one you meant, Ilana?
I didn't like "Ted" when it first came out, but after Mr. Ritter passed away I watched it again just for his performance. There's some quirkiness in the writing, but damn he was a good actor. Comedy, drama, horror, what a versatile man. He made the unbelievable believable. Anyone else in that role? "Ted" would definitely have been my least favorite episode. Ritter pulled it off though. Not an easy role for anyone to take.
I wish Joss Whedon had hired John Ritter on day one and made him Buffy's actual father, then incorporated Hank Summers more regularly with the cast. Yes, this would have dramatically changed the first three seasons in some ways, but it would have reinforced Buffy's misdirected guilt over her parents' separation. We could have seen first hand Hank's indiscretions, and seen how Joyce purposefully kept the truth from her, thinking she was helping when her daughter was quietly suffering a guilt that the marriage failed due to Buffy being a 'troublesome delinquent child.' Instead, it's only insinuated at points and not made the dramatic conflict that it could have been.
We can't go back. Still, scenes with John Ritter and Anthony Stewart Head acting together, in a conflict where Hank Summers and Rupert Giles were going toe for toe arguing over Buffy's place in the world and her future, and who knows better what's good for her - that woulda been a sight to see. I love both actors' works, they come from dramatically different schools of thought when it comes to acting. Ritter and ASH in a heated dialogue over Buffy's well-being. I just wish we could bring Mr. Ritter back for an encore, y'know?
Of course, I also would like to someday see a complete reboot of Buffy, in modern day, with Dawn there from the start as well.
No irony punctuation needed. =)
[ edited by ZachsMind on 2005-03-13 23:37 ]
ZachsMind | March 13, 16:31 CET
Ilana | March 13, 16:44 CET
The Pack - It just has never worked for me. Although it does have its good moments, the episode just didnt quite come together the way it should have
DoubleMeat Palace - What! An Espensode I do not like! What trickery is going on here! I just found this episode to be too depressing with a really unsatisfactory demon. I mean we know that all men are evil, but did they really need to put a penis on top of the old woman's head
The Killer in Me - It just didnt work for me, and i left the episode feeling dissapointed and unsatisfied. I have only ever watched this episode three times which for me is scarily low!
However, it does of couse go without saying that every episode of Buffy and Angel is WAY better than Charmed. (Ooh! Ooh! Bitchy comment! Somebody slap me!)
Apocalypse | March 13, 17:12 CET
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 17:37 CET
nixygirl | March 13, 18:15 CET
Gill | March 13, 18:34 CET
Season 1- I Robot, You Jane (which is my least fave of the series) and Teacher's Pet.
Season 2- Inca Mummy Girl and Go Fish
Season 3- None I feel especially negative towards.
Season 4- Beer Bad (Ugh) and Where The Wild Things are.
Season 5- Buffy vs. Dracula
Season 6- As You Were (And I liked Riley) and Wrecked (another ugh) (Still probably my fave season)
Season 7- Showtime and The Killer in Me.
Otherwise all the other episodes fall between above-average television and exceptional, thankfully more under the latter.
Each of those episodes has SOMETHING brilliant in them, it's just as a whole I didn't praticularly enjoy them.
rabid | March 13, 18:42 CET
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 19:38 CET
^^This was an emmy award-nominated episode. Personally, I've never heard of someone thinking this as to be a bad episode. I'm praying that was sarcasm...
I've always assumed Whedon fans had automatic internal sarcasm detectors. Yes, for the record, that was sincerely facetious.
Once upon a time there was discussion on the board of making sarcastic comments purple but it never took it seems.
marmoset | March 13, 19:55 CET
On the other topic, I can't say there are every any episodes I would even consider skipping, though there are certainly episodes I like a lot less than others. The only thing in the entire run of Buffy, Angel and Firefly that annoyed me enough to not look forward to seeing again was the end of Empty Places but I wouldn't skip it as I understand the reason for it. Just don't like the execusion.
Paul_Rocks | March 13, 20:16 CET
Lioness | March 13, 20:25 CET
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 20:50 CET
Inanis | March 13, 21:05 CET
One of the great season 6 stand-alones imo :)
rabid | March 13, 21:10 CET
Oh I would totally use purple for sarcasm, but a little bit of ambiguity is soo much more fun. :)
SoddingNancyTribe | March 13, 21:39 CET
Still can't stop, though. Ambiguity, irony, sarcasm, all up there with chocolate as far as I'm concerned.
Of course now I can't say what I thought of Normal Again, as anything I might say would deconstruct itself.
Biff Turkle | March 13, 22:04 CET
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 22:46 CET
The way I've been doing it is to write font color=purple within the < > brackets, then write the text you want empurpled, then /font within the < > brackets.
And then, by extension, one can write in a multitude of other colors! Actually, to be serious for a moment, that's not recommended - we should probably reserve those colors for the PTBs.
SoddingNancyTribe | March 13, 23:03 CET
BufSlyAngel | March 13, 23:26 CET
My own are pretty standard. I'm not one who thinks BtVS never had a bad episode – it was on for seven seasons, after all, and while it was brilliant, I don't think it was always consistent. Pretty much any episode is rescued by at least one or two great lines or scenes for me, and there aren't any I'll shut out completely, but there are definitely some I have a deep and abiding dislike for.
Among them: Dead Man's Party (I agree with Reddygirl above – the gang's anger and public excoriation of Buffy just seemed really out-of-character and inappropriate to me. Plus, I just didn't like the main mummy plot - although Giles's mask line is one of my all-time faves).
Beer Bad – Not much explanation needed. Zero subtlety, terrible acting, preachy sermonizing against drinking, and buffy-as-cave-girl - didn't need to go there. The rescue scene: Willow pretending to fall for Parker.
Wrecked – Again, my main problem is with the hit-you-over-the-head metaphor. Willow's attraction to the power of magic becomes a full-blown addiction (oooh... drugs...) complete with withdrawal symptoms and a bad approximation of a crack den. So much for the nuanced, subtle metaphors and plotlines.
Killer in Me: Just had a really hard time watching Willow-as-Warren
Bad Eggs: Again with the metaphor that didn't work. Plus, the hatching egg-things were creepy.
Doublemeat Palace: Fast food was way too easy a target. Lame plot, lame dialogue, lame evil. And gross grease. Part of a string of bad episodes that included As you Were and Wrecked.
Gingerbread: I liked "M.O.O." but that's about it. The witch-hunt seemed over-the-top and not in Joyce's character, and the dialogue/acting were clunky.
A few narrow misses: Doomed was saved entirely for me by Spike's speech at the very end, which is priceless, and one of my favorites ("Come on! Vampires...nasty...Let's annhilate them, for justice, and puppies, and.. and Christmas. Let's kill something!"). Where the Wild Things Are: Saved by Giles singing in the Espresso Pump.
And some of the early ones – Inca Mummy Girl, Reptile Boy, I Robot, You Jane, Some Assembly Required, Teachers Pet – I just chalk up to the show struggling to find its footing early, and cut them more slack. Inca Mummy Girl also has Willow dressed as an eskimo at the end, and Oz noticing her :-).
On the other hand, I enjoy Hell's Bells and Go Fish more than most... But my top 20-30 are all pretty much the usual suspects.
acp | March 14, 00:17 CET
The frat guys, acting on impulse, set fires, abduct people etc. Buffy overcomes her impulse driven behaviour and stiil acts in a way that shows some degree of ego-driven, indeed if not superego-driven, behaviour. I see it as foreshadowing the First Slayer - even at that "origin"-al level, the slayer was drievn by other bigger forces.
"Beer Bad" remains one of my favourites because of all the above. I have never seen the drinking as the message or subtext, rather that it is the effect of purely impulse-driven behaviour (and the Slayer's ability to step outside of that).
Besides - Foamy!
catalyst2 | March 14, 00:39 CET
BUFFY: (watching MTV) TV is a good thing. Bright colours. Music. Tiny little people.
WILLOW: What did you do with Buffy
BUFFY: I'm suffering the afterness of a bad night of badness
WILLOW: You didn't. Not with Parker again.
BUFFY: No, with four really smart guys.
WILLOW: Four? Oh. Ow. Oh Buffy, are you okay? Do you wanna talk about it?
BUFFY: I went to see Xander. Then I saw Parker. Then came beer.
WILLOW: And then group sex?
Is worth watching!
zz9 | March 14, 06:00 CET
"It's Nazi Germany, and I have Playboys in my locker!"
Ilana | March 14, 07:11 CET
I agree that every episode has worthwhile snippets, and sometimes some of the most hilarious exchanges are hidden in otherwise clunky episodes. It's why i'll never write off an episode completely, and I'm always up for rewatching, but I still think there are episodes that are sub-par, compared to the rest.
As for Beer Bad... To me, the whole Id, Freud, psych babble at the beginning and in other parts of the episode was just a way for the writers to try and elevate their material beyond what it was There are some good scenes (like the segment you quoted zz9), but once the beer starts taking its effect, it's painful for me to watch. It's one of the few times I really don't like SMG's acting, but then again – I'm not sure what she could have done differently, given the material.
The ep is definitely at the very bottom of my list – but obviously, from the discussion above, quite a few people feel differently about it. And that's what I love about both BtVS and its fan base.
acp | March 14, 08:53 CET
Almost...
See, GO FISH really, really bugs me. It's the scenes involving the boy in the car who asks Buffy if she is wearing a bra, then locks the door, and moves towards her in a threatening manner, asking her if she likes it rough. Buffy, having superpowers, throws down, and good for her. Then, in Snyder's office, it's said she was asking for it because she wears short skirts. OK, the girl is threatened with rape, no one believes her, then she is told she was asking for it. If I were her, I'd be fairly upset. But when telling the whole story to the gang, they are rolling of eyes and acting as though she is being self-involved for talking about her almost-rape-except-she-has-superpowers. It is so out of character for all of them to brush her off like that, but the killer for me is Giles' snarky little reply to Buffy asking if anything is going on: "Thank you for taking an interest..." Because of all the times Buffy is self-absorbed, this is the time her good friends and mentor call her on it? That does it every time. I switch it off. I haven't made it all the way through GO FISH since it first aired, and it's the only episode I cannot watch.
Yeah, really bugs me.
Dizzy | March 14, 11:19 CET
I always watch Buffy and Angel by season and I never skip episodes, as the shows are so complex that almost every episode is laden with many plot and character developments, either minor arcs over a few episodes, to season arcs, and even those that can affect the entire series. Even an episode such as 'Restless' which seems to break from the regular format is a fantastic, interesting examination of the characters, their relationships, history and foreshadowing for later episodes.
As for specific episodes I'm not as fond of as my favourites, there aren't a huge amount. I can watch even a weaker episode and I find them immensely more enjoyable than a good episode of many TV series.
There are a few episodes which are generally considered kind of poor by most fans, including 'Beer Bad', 'Where The Wild Things Are' and 'Doublemeat Palace'. I thought 'Beer Bad' was definately a more comedy oriented episode, I found it less interesting thematically than other episodes but it was still funny and had some really winning lines.
'Where The Wild Things Are' was a good episode in my opinion, the idea of the children being repressed was quite serious and the heavy sexual undertones (well, it was more explicit than that) seemed to be similar to some of the content we would see later in season six. 'Doublemeat Palace' was kind of poor, the story was very clichéd but I think a lot of that was intentional, although I detested the very idea of the wig lady.
I think season six was my least favourite season initally, but on repeat viewings it has grown on me. Definately darker than other seasons, but more because of the consistantly heavy tone and subject matter, whereas in previous seasons we would see equally dark themes dealt with among episodes with less intense ideas. I thought it was slightly lacking the balance of humor and action that makes Buffy good, more leaning towards the dark humor and depressing storylines. But I think it was very strong in retrospect, like the harsh truth that needs to be expressed.
One thing I dislike in Buffy is when I notice quite large mistakes. I don't mind small mistakes, like when there are coincidences or people seem to know where someone else is with no explanation, but there are other gaping mistakes which can detract from the experience as I love the continuity that Mutant Enemy has developed. 'Selfless', for example, is one of my favourite episodes, but it really annoys me that no one thinks of the simple solution of destroying Anya's amulet instead of killing her. I also hate very occasional character changes, or when I feel they do something out of character, such as Buffy claiming she would have sacrificed Dawn in the battle against The First, despite refusing to do so two years earlier.
I think my favourite all round episode, if I had to choose one, would be 'The Gift'. It was very well rounded, with action, humor, drama, mythology and fantastic acting. The production values were high and it was written Joss. Of course Buffy's sacrifice was incredibly beautiful and I feel it would have been a fitting ending for the series had there not been any further seasons. And of course, Tara and Anya were still alive.
What about bad/good Angel/Firefly episodes? I would comment now but I'm running short on time, so I'll do it later.
Razor | March 14, 12:39 CET
I agree completely with you about Buffy's claim that she would have sacrificed Dawn in the battle against the First - it did feel out of character for me too. I am still thinking that she said that just because that what Giles wanted to hear, to show him that she is becoming a tough general he wanted her to become.
Lince | March 14, 14:10 CET
A lot of people criticise Buffy when they haven't even seen it, dismissing it because it doesn't fit the expectations of mainstream TV, or the fact that it has vampires or even the title. People just assume it is a silly fantasy show with ludicrous stories and a lot of attractive female characters. While it does have attractive actors, the stories are all interesting and (for the most part) intellectually and philosophically challenging.
This is even more hypocritical coming from people who enjoy a lot of mainstream TV which is incredibly bad quality, even when not compared to Buffy. Soaps, for example, have even more ridiculous, and ratings grabbing storylines than Buffy ever had, yet they can get more praise. Surely if you can belive most of that stuff, you can suspend belief enough to accept the Buffy-verse?
Very conservative or religious people often dismiss Buffy based on their moral ideas, but fail to realise that Buffy explores important issues which often highlight that humans do make mistakes but that most of them are just trying to do the best they can, a lesson that Jesus himself would be proud of.
I don't mind if someone generally dislikes Buffy and can offer logical reasoning behind their criticisms, but in these kind of digs there is no justification and one recieves the impression that the reviewer hasn't even given the show a chance. I could expect that from the average person on the street, but not from reviewers, who are meant to judge their opinions on what they see. I cannot actually remember ever reading any negative articles or reviews of Buffy or Angel, because although reviewers have offered criticisms, which is fair enough, both shows have generally been critically acclaimed and appreciated.
My opinion of Buffy and Angel is that both are contemporary Shakespeare. They both deal with similar important and age old themes such as love, betrayal, friendship, courage and faith, although B/A express their ideas in a different format and through more modern language, but are still intelligent and captivating forms of art.
Razor | March 14, 14:20 CET
Razor | March 14, 14:23 CET
Agree, by the way, about Buffy and Angel as contemporary Shakespeare, right down to adding new words to the English language, just as Bill did. And my standard pitch is similar to what you wrote above--that Buffy tackles all the great themes of humanity--love, death, honor, betrayal, duty, sacrifice, heartbreak and sorrow, and does it in a way that is not only unconventional, it's radically different from anything I've ever seen before.
Chris inVirginia | March 14, 15:11 CET
I really hope that people at least admire the passion and effort that has gone into all of Joss's shows, because everyone involved worked really hard and deserves the success they have won.
As to my least favourite Angel/Firefly episodes...
Again, it is hard to find fault, but I didn't find season one of Angel as strong as later seasons. Obviously this is due to the show setting up and finding its feet, but it was structurally more focused on stand alone episodes, which is in stark contrast to seasons three and four for example, which are very hard to follow because of the continuous development. I have yet to see season five and I hear it is slightly more focused on stand alone episodes, but that isn't strictly a bad thing. Just that I felt season one as a whole was slightly less satisifying than later seasons.
It's hard to pick out a single episode, but one thing that really annoyed me was the Oracle Wesley consulted in season three (I think it was'Loyalty'), it was kind of something I expected to see in 'Doublemeat Palace', cheesy and annoying.
As to Firefly, I have yet to view the whole season, I am taking my time on the DVD and I last watched 'Ariel'. I was impressed by the season but I didn't think "Wow!" until I reached 'Out Of Gas', which was completely outstanding. Hilarious, dramatic, sad, action-packed, the story not developed in chronological order... I was very, very impressed. My least favourite episode so far was 'Our Mrs. Reynolds', which wasn't really bad but there were just certain elements I didn't like. Still had plenty of redeeming moments though.
Razor | March 14, 17:09 CET
batmarlowe | March 14, 17:52 CET
In other words, the worst Buffy is still splendid TV.
My favorite episodes are pretty standard..."OMWF", "Hush", "The Gift", "The Body", "Becoming", "Innocence", "The Prom", "CWDP", "Tabula Rasa", and so on...but I loved, just *loved* "Beer Bad"..."foamy" as an expression of approval and delight entered our household lexicon for all time! (So did "shiny", after we watched "Firefly".
Loved "Our Mrs. Reynolds", too, by the way. But "Out of Gas", "Objects in Space" and "The Message" are my favorite "Firefly" episodes.
[ edited by Chris inVirginia on 2005-03-15 04:12 ]
Chris inVirginia | March 14, 19:19 CET
I guess that really hit my sense of humor in whatever scary place it lives...
Ilana | March 14, 20:22 CET
Although Anna told them to get Hallie's pendant in "Older and Far Away" that would not tell them that smashing it would take away her powers. Beyond that, D'Hoffrin obviously has ultimate control over who has powers. Annya went to him after it was smashed and asked him to restore her. The amulet was just a tool. She lost her powers because her boss was punishing her. If they did smash the amulet, D'Hoffrin could restore her powers if he wished to and it does seem like he would wish to. The vengence demon gig seems like one you only get out of if the boss decides he wants you out, pendent or no pendent.
I hope that helps you enjoy "Selfless" more fully. :-)
newcj | March 14, 22:05 CET
EDIT to add: Like batmarlowe I wasn't totally in love with Firefly until Our Mrs Reynolds (which granted was the 3rd episode to air) and I think because of that it's probably my favourite episode. My least favourite episode is Safe, though I think that has a lot to do with it being aired so far out of order that the characters seemed to be behaving as though a lot of their development hadn't happened, which in the original (and dvd) order it hadn't.
As for Angel, my least favourite episode is probably I Fall To Pieces and my favourite is Apocalypse, Nowish.
[ edited by Paul_Rocks on 2005-03-15 16:09 ]
Paul_Rocks | March 15, 09:04 CET
The plot is good - there is a significant twist that turns the story back to front in terms of good and bad. I loved the portrayal of the Devil - suitably unpredictable but still menacing!
In short, I though it was a little like BtVS but in a good way! Of course, I have no knowldge of Constantine's source material so it may have been altered beyond recognition but I don't know that. As a movie, it was good!
catalyst2 | March 23, 01:56 CET
Even though Giles worked out how to destroy her powers in the alternate reality, the amulet was still the source of her power and the reason why she lost her powers in the normal Buffy reality. In "Older and Far Away" Anya was going to try and get Halfrek's amulet, presumably to smash it, reversing the wish Halfrek granted and forcing her to lose her powers.
So it stands to reason that Anya could have told one of the gang more about the amulet being the source of a vengeance demon's powers, especially when Halfrek came to Sunnydale. It is also likely that Giles or Xander would have researched ways of returning Anya to her human form after her second period of being a demon.
Ultimately it is D'Hoffryn's decision to make someone a vengeance demon or take away their powers, but after "The Wish" it appears that if a demon is careless or stupid enough to have it broken then he feels that they don't deserve to be a demon.
He probably only changed his mind with Anya because she had a long and successful history of venegeance and after being abandoned by Xander was particularly bitter. Had the gang found and smashed her amulet, it is unlikely that D'Hoffryn would have restored her powers for a second time, if she had it broken twice, and apart from two violent wishes she granted (the frat boys and the worm, but she reversed it), was performing very poorly in the vengeance stakes. So as long as the gang were aware of the amulet's power breaking it should have rendered Anya human again.
Personally I think it was just a case of the writer being slightly careless and wanting to go with a dramatic plot where Buffy and Xander argue about killing Anya, regardless of the logic involved. Even if they were unaware of the amulet at this point, it seems strange that they wouldn't do any research on the matter].
You could argue that Buffy wanted to stop Anya granting any more wishes, but she had attempted to redeem Angelus and Willow in the past when they were evil. You could again argue that Buffy has changed by this point and is thinking more of the big picture, but she later ignores the fact that Spike is under control of The First to attempt to help him.
So why was Anya not given an attempt to redeem herself? Had Buffy actually went to talk to her rather than fight she might have realised how upset Anya was about what she had done. Or waited for Giles to research vengeance demons just as she got the gang to research how to restore Angel's soul or how Spike was being controlled.
I think it was more than likely due to the writer's mistake. But if you wanted to come up with theories as to why they didn't think of the amulet, the only possibilities are that for some reason the gang didn't bother researching the matter or Buffy was eager to kill Anya.
Razor | April 07, 11:21 CET