March 15 2005
Marti Noxon "pretty much counting on not coming back" To Point Pleasant.
And the writers are making a season finale that can also serve as a series finale.
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Has there been any word on when The Inside is going to premiere? I hope they don't shove it to July.
[ edited by eddy on 2005-03-15 20:07 ]
eddy | March 15, 13:05 CET
Caroline | March 15, 13:06 CET
click here
eddy | March 15, 13:08 CET
I had high hopes for Point Pleasant, thought it would be the best of the post Whedon shows but it was not meant to be. It had some good points but the cliched soap opera aspects and lack lustre acting overweighed the supernatural elements that were struggling to get noticed.
Boyd was a great character though. He would have been a superb big bad in Angel. Marti and co deserve credit for creating him.
Simon | March 15, 13:08 CET
BufSlyAngel | March 15, 13:20 CET
I think the show would've been more successful if they hadn't gone over-board with the soap plotlines. Plus the casting was bad for the most part, I can barely tell the 2 brunette teens from each other. BTVS had great casting, buffy=blonde, willow=red head, cordy=brunette. No confusion.
eddy | March 15, 13:28 CET
Hmm. I know these things are hit and miss, but if you start a show surely you have to have a strong idea what it's going to become when you start out?
Grounded | March 15, 13:29 CET
I also had high hopes for this show. I really wanted Marti to have some success outside of the 'verse.
At least she has a sence of humor about it. The line about the sock puppets in her back yard made me chuckle.
Spikecam21 | March 15, 13:33 CET
eddy | March 15, 13:33 CET
It sounds like a cross between Buffy and The OC, but is not as good as either show.
Razor | March 15, 13:50 CET
Simon | March 15, 13:50 CET
The teen cast, with the exception of Aubrey Dollar, was the show's Achilles Heel. Dull as dishwater, and every time Paula came on screen, you could practically hear another Nielsen family switching to another channel. As executive producer (she had to be there for the casting decisions), Marti has no one to blame but herself.
cjl | March 15, 13:59 CET
The strange thing is that i can't really tell you why though. It had a lot of the elements that should have made it a great show for me. Marti Noxon, a supernatural theme, a really hot female lead, charismatic bad guy, all good you would think. So what went wrong? I honestly don't know. Something just didn't work for me, that's all i can say.
Hopefully Marti won't be too disappointed and she will try again with a new show very soon. I'd suggest being showrunner for Joss on a Spike series. What better job for her is there? ;)
The Arcane | March 15, 14:04 CET
...
TRY THE BUFFYVERSE, MARTI!
Christopher | March 15, 14:13 CET
Jet Wolf | March 15, 14:15 CET
Jet, I doubt the failure of this show will effect Marti's career. Most tv shows bomb, but the writers continue to get work.
[ edited by eddy on 2005-03-15 21:22 ]
eddy | March 15, 14:15 CET
It probably would have been better, had it been on a different timeslot, and day.
That's like when they put Angel on Sunday night. They wanted to kill the show.
Rogue | March 15, 14:25 CET
Krall the Conqueror | March 15, 14:31 CET
bloodflowers | March 15, 15:31 CET
In my world, Marti would end up running on a Faith/Spike show since Joss probably would be busy with movie projects.
Jonas | March 15, 16:03 CET
Passion | March 15, 16:40 CET
Jonas, I agree. We might have a pretty good chance now though. Marti is obviously going to be free, Eliza is free as far as I know, and James wants to do it. I think that would make a Kick @ss show!
BufSlyAngel | March 15, 16:42 CET
Jonas | March 15, 16:47 CET
Kris | March 15, 17:35 CET
It seems that posters want a Spike AND Faith series as opposed to a Spike or a Faith series. Which would, of course, be fine with me but maybe I'm misreading the vibe.
batmarlowe | March 15, 17:40 CET
killinj | March 15, 17:44 CET
The Arcane | March 15, 17:45 CET
Sister Spooky | March 15, 17:58 CET
I'm not sure about a Faith series. Was a little underwhelmed by what was done with her in the last season of Buffy (Eliza was great as always, I just didn't think the character was all that compelling and necessary to have around after her appearance on Angel), aside from when she basically got voted in as leader over bitchy self-righteous Buffy, that was kinda awesome and hilarious. But yeah, there's a hell of a lot of potential there still...I'm just not sure we need another series that follows a slayer though. Star Trek only needed three shows' worth of focusing on a ship name Enterprise to get stale, and that was with whole new casts too!
Illyria damn it, Illyria! Yeah, I know, not enough star power there, Marsters and Dushku are more likely household names (among the average Buffyverse fan at least).
I'm not holding out hope for anything to happen in the next year or two for the Buffyverse (aside from the comics of course. And possibly the animated series, if it ever gets off the ground and doesn't finally die a permanent death). But it's fun to speculate, even though I think we've almost done that to death at this point when it comes to spin-offs.
[ edited by Kris on 2005-03-16 01:14 ]
Kris | March 15, 18:11 CET
Simon | March 15, 18:14 CET
Kris | March 15, 18:19 CET
I'd actually like to see Illyria in her own show too. I'm biased towards Spike (hero worship does that to ya!) but if that couldn't happen and the more likely Faith show never saw the light of day, then Illyria is definately a good choice also.
In fact, now that Wes is gone, Spike is the closest thing she has to a friend (or pet at least) so if he was to get his own show having Illyria in the cast would not be unwelcome at all.
The Arcane | March 15, 18:24 CET
Okay, back on topic then, by all means. ;)
The Arcane | March 15, 18:27 CET
We do on occasion chat about shows that are run by former Mutant Enemy head honchos. This is one of those times when we chat about Point Pleasant and the implications of its cancellation could mean.
For instance, will The Inside be put in as a subsititute? Is Point Pleasant's soon to be cancellation more evidence that Fox doesn't nurture genre shows (i.e. Firefly, Wonderfalls etc)? Would the show have worked on cable? How much constraints did Fox execs place on Marti in terms of casting and plot. Would a different slot have made a difference? And why greenlight a show when there was such glaring problems with it?
Simon | March 15, 18:32 CET
Then, what could Noxon do next? Perhaps, she could be a writer in a continuation of the Angelverse. If so, I hope the new series is given a more general name rather than being named after a title character - that way it wouldn't rest so heavily on a single actor's shoulders and if at any point they wanted to leave, they could without the show having to end.
I wish Noxon and all former ME writers the best.
killinj | March 15, 18:33 CET
A new Buffyverse Spin Off! Hence the discussion about it ;)
Koos | March 15, 18:35 CET
I love the premise but something was just off. Exposition can be a good thing and PP often felt disjointed and unconnected, plotwise.
But, it was improving and I wish it had a shot at staying on the air.
Reddygirl | March 15, 18:46 CET
And maybe just maybe there will be some interesting Marti Noxon commentary on it. Maybe something akin to the JMS commentary for the Babylon 5 spinoff series 'Crusade' DVD release. I seem to remember reading that Warner Brothers asked for that to be removed for future pressings of the DVD.
Simon | March 15, 18:53 CET
I found it much more interesting than preceding episodes (excluding the 'dance marathon' one...that was pretty good). But a 'must see' series? No. I don't really care if I miss it.
Who knows what FOX will decide? They canceled Firefly!! What do they know?!
creepy6 | March 15, 20:24 CET
Tossing it in that slot as is, with no buzz? Waste of the millions and millions they've spent on this series so far.
As much as I want everyone to see it RIGHT NOW, I want the show to live, and so, a Fall launch would be a better thing.
Allyson | March 15, 20:27 CET
Maybe Marti can start something different now.
charisma | March 15, 21:27 CET
Although I'd agree Fox doesn't nurture genre shows, this is more a case of Fox not nurturing bad shows.
Would the show have worked on cable?
If it had been aired in the form it aired on Fox, then no.
How much constraints did Fox execs place on Marti in terms of casting and plot
Don't know. Are a lot of other Fox shows cast and written this badly? There might be something there. Then we can blame Fox.
Would a different slot have made a difference?
Possibly. What slot did you have in mind?
And why greenlight a show when there was such glaring problems with it?
Best summed up by what creepy said. "Who knows what FOX will decide? They canceled Firefly!! What do they know?! "
Quit | March 15, 22:40 CET
Gio | March 15, 23:34 CET
I never saw one episode of Tru Calling, so I can't speak to that show specifically, but expecting anyone to watch an entire season of mediocre television for a good finale seems a bit much.
I watched 4 or 5 eps of PP. I wanted to like it. I didn't. I wish Marti all the best. Should she be correct about not having a second season, and I think she is, I wish her all the best in her next endeavor.
Angela | March 16, 00:33 CET
On paper the concept was appealing to me -- lots of classic-inferring, oogy horror elements that should have sucked all us monster lovers right in -- but execution-wise, not so much with the suckage (except in the, unfortunately, literal sense). Christina was adequate, and often genuinely good, yet I never really came to feel deeply for her, even after giving the show five opportunities to get its hooks in.
What was even more disappointing: With the incredible historical richness of material to draw from, it never sunk its teeth into the occult/mystical/religious subject matter it toyed with; scary places that Buffy didn't often go, with serious "black magick" and conjurations of demons and such (I'm talking Chthulu/Necronomicon-type stuff here, which I was seriously hoping Boyd would be into) never materialized.
The church (which must be the most understated, un-Catholic-feeling Catholic sanctuary I've ever seen -- no prayer candles? No kneelers? No Jesuses everywhere you look?) functioned primarily as pseudo-atmospheric window dressing for character set pieces often having little to do with anything but the most superficial questions of faith and belief. Then, outside of that setting, the storyline spent too much time setting up the boring interactions among dull people of the small town, instead of really dazzling us with Christina's nascent power and potential. Less soap, more scope, that's what I was hoping for.
Too many cliches ran rampant. Explosions have been done a million times on TV and in movies to express repressed anger, and I wanted to see far more creative manifestations of Christina's darker impulses. Instead of having a very believable teenage curiosity driving her to investigate her abilities in private, tempting her, compelling her to play with it, I saw her run away from the only power she knew she had among all those strangers. It did nothing to convince me she actually was at least half the Devil's spawn, anymore than a lighthouse beam shining on her at an opportune moment convinced me otherwise. (It seems like all I can do is complain, doesn't it, but the degree of detail I've put into my kvetching shows how much I wanted it to be good.)
Why PP didn't gel might be explained by FOX tinkering with the grand scheme. Or it might be equal parts faulty TV mechanics and mystery ... some things just don't get to live. Or maybe the idea just couldn't make that leap across the great divide between Marti's brain and the rest of the world. Whatever the case, I hope she gets back up on that horse, dusts herself off, and rides again soon.
Wiseblood | March 16, 03:31 CET
Simon, I recall that the show opened with five million viewers which is well below the radar of FOX. The premier of 'Tru Calling' was 12 million. Sorry, I'm not sure about the opening ratings of 'Firefly'.
I'm at a loss on why Marti failed at this show. She certainly has the talent to write and direct an entertaining tale, she has proven herself time and again. Could it be just a bad storyline? Bad acting from the cast? No plot? Or replaying the same "I can see how this will end from 3 miles away" show.
Whatever the case, I hope Marti finds her vehicle soon.
Madhatter | March 16, 04:41 CET
It's absolutely fine to be weird and unfocused if you are also being interesting at the same time.
The Arcane | March 16, 04:56 CET
Koos | March 16, 06:56 CET
I think your recall is your way off :) Point Pleasant opened with an above the radar 7.0 (over 11 million), TC got less than half, with only a 3.3(4.9 million viewers). The difference is of course that TC premiered against Freinds, whilst PP premiered post American Idol. The second episode of PP was the first to premier in the thursday slot, that got a 3.6, losing nearly half the ratings, third episode garnered a 2.9, fourth a 2.2, it has since recovered slightly to a 2.5. TC's first 4 episodes went 3.3, 2.8, 2.7, 2.9, TC went on to increase its ratings throughout the year hitting a series high of 3.9 on March 25th 2004, when Jason Proestly joined the cast. In the end though the ratings fell from there back down to a 2.9 for what ended up being the series finale
Firefly first 4 faired better at 4.0, 3.6, 3.3, 2.7. It stabalised somewhat at 2.7. Despite this it was Fox's lowest rated show of the year, at 127th out 155 prime time network shows (average 4.48 million viewers). The next worst, The Pulse, did 10% better with an average 4.92 million viewers. Despite this, no show has done better than Firefly in its slot.
edited to add, just realised my ratings data only goes up to May 2nd 2003, for the 2002/3 season, its therefore possible that another Fox show did worse than firefly.
[ edited by Ocipital on 2005-03-16 22:23 ]
Ocipital | March 16, 15:03 CET