Whedonesque : Comments on 6342 : Video Interview with Joss and Morena on Serenity and Wonder Woman.

It sounded more to me that if forced by the studio to include the Invisible Jet he "could make it work". I for one hope that it gets left out, because there are very few things lamer than an invisible jet...

ringworm | March 21, 13:12 CET

~~Am I missing something or is there no printed interview but just the video interview?~~

I've reworded your subject line, and I won't be able to watch the interview cause my sucky PC at work for some reason doesnt play online WMP material.

[ edited by Simon on 2005-03-21 11:28 ]

Simon | March 21, 13:17 CET

Thanks, Simon

NickSeng | March 21, 13:42 CET

Simon, you can download the video from here and then watch it from your harddisk.

Celebithil | March 21, 13:43 CET

Cheers for that Celebithil.

And what a great interview. Moreana stunning as ever and Joss being his usual witty self. Best thing to beat a Monday morning blues at work.

Simon | March 21, 13:47 CET

The invisible jet is workable if you give it a modern sensibility. I can't recall if Wonder Woman could always fly or if that was added to her powers somewhere around the silver age. If Whedon chooses to make Wonder Woman not able to fly, but that along the plot arc she gets hold of a small jet that has a cloaking device of some sort, like a stealth, then I think that could work. He could even say the jet isn't visible to the naked eye. The problem though is that in the silver age she had a jet which was invisible but she was still visible within it, sitting there as if she were at a cockpit that wasn't there. And that's where it gets silly and campy.

Whedon's smart enough to know not to just stick an invisible jet in there without it making sense. If a jet's needed to accomplish the plotline, he'll work it in, but he doesn't have to do a CGI scene where we see *insert actress name here* sitting on a box in green screen, with a partially visible cellophane plane surrounding her. It can be a real looking plane that we the audience see, but the enemies she's avoiding and anyone who happens to look up in the air as she flies by will react as if it's not there. That could work.

In other news: Morena Baccarin kept scratching at her nose. Hope she's not coming down with the sniffles. *smirk* Seeing that video, coupled with another thread elsewhere, I'm beginning to think that Whedon is pushing to have Morena Baccarin as WW behind the scenes but that he can't confirm or deny anything as of yet. She's most certainly on his unofficial short list, but the people he's working with to get this thing off the ground don't want him purposefully pushing anything this soon. He did seem to make a point to want Baccarin standing next to him AS he's asking questions about WW. That alone means he's trying to send a message to SOMEONE.

Whether it's you and me, Morgan Freeman, or the moneybags behind the curtain, that's up to debate.

ZachsMind | March 21, 15:20 CET

I could see Joss doing a gag with the invisible jet. Let's say Wonder Woman gets a new cloaking upgrade to her jet that's meant to make the jet and her invisible. While on a mission where she needs to be unseen by the enemy the cloaking field goes wonky and only cloaks the jet leaving her visible and giving away her position to the enemy. A call back to the old mixed in with the new.

Barry Woodward | March 21, 16:00 CET

The invisible jet is a bad idea no matter how Joss does it. You can't explain how an ancient island of Amazons invented a jet way more advanced than anything anyone else has come up with. The stealth jet idea would technically work but then why would she need it if she can fly on her own? She has been able to fly since pretty early in the Silver Age (so for around forty years now) and i really hope Joss doesn't take that away. the whole point of Wonder Woman is that she is every bit as powerful as Superman... she needs to be able to fly.

On another issue... i really love Morena to bits but she is most definately no Wonder Woman and i pray to god Joss is not pushing for that. I am a regular at several superhero websites where this has been discussed at length and i can tell you that this movie will bomb worse than Catwoman if Morena is cast... i've come across maybe three people tops that said MAYBE she would be OK... everyone else is dead against her.

Pimpernel | March 21, 16:04 CET

I am a regular at several superhero websites where this has been discussed at length and i can tell you that this movie will bomb worse than Catwoman if Morena is cast... i've come across maybe three people tops that said MAYBE she would be OK... everyone else is dead against her.

Comic book fans were saying the same sort of thing for Michael Keaton playing Batman. He ended up being superb in the role.

Simon | March 21, 16:06 CET

Thats a very tired argument and one that has been refuted many times... even by Keaton himself. The reason Keaton was able to pull off batman was cos the suit did all the work for him. You could stick anyone in a good Batman suit and so long as they got the attitude right they would be fine.
Thats not the case with WW... its all the actress. She can't hide behind a suit. She has to physically embody WW on her own and Morena (tho i love her) does not. Its the same thing as with Superman... thats why Donner in the seventies and Singer now both had such a hard time finding a star... they understood that without a mask the actor has to BE the character... you can't just go up to the first hot brunette you find and cast her. It doesn't work like that.
WW has always been pale... Morena is not. WW is tall and imposing... Morena seems short and in no way even slightly imposing... WW has blue eyes... with her complexion Morena will look stupid with blue eyes... WW is curvy and busty... Morena is slim and elfin... WW looks like she could kick your ass... Morena doesn't.

Pimpernel | March 21, 16:20 CET

I'm a comic book fan (just not Wonder Woman's), and I don't care who get's cast, as long as they can act beyond the pre-requisite hair-flipping.

I mean, come on, we're arguing who should be cast based on their looks? Shouldn't we (ie. fans of Whedon) be above this?

*sigh*

I'm with Joss, Morgan Freeman would be great as WW. :D

[ edited by NickSeng on 2005-03-21 14:22 ]

[ edited by NickSeng on 2005-03-21 14:22 ]

NickSeng | March 21, 16:20 CET

It has to be the full package tho NickSeng. Thats the point. On some boards they make really dumb suggestions such as Ali Landry or Catherine Bell or various italian lingerie models or whatever and i argue there that while some of them have the look in spades they can't act for toffee. On the other hand this is the type of role where you need to strike a balance between looks and talent. Its not like casting Buffy or something where nobody has ever seen Buffy before so you can make her look however you want. WW has been around for sixty years and there is a very definate look that she needs to have. There are actresses out there that have talent in PLUS look perfect... off the top of my head Jennifer Connelly, Monica Bellucci, and Jordan Bayne all look like WW stepped right off the page plus they are good actresses. Its not that hard to cast this movie right but Morena is NOT the way to go.

Pimpernel | March 21, 16:29 CET

Did anyone catch John Cassaday standing in the background behind Joss and the person Morena was talking to was Jewel. Also the fact that Morena was wearing the same outfit she had on at the last LA con in Dec. I guess she has come up with a convention wardrobe now as well, I would have just liked to have ask her what is up with the scarf thing has Nathan or Joss been giving her hickeys. :)

RavenU | March 21, 16:43 CET

Yep, and the first Batman film did great at the box office. I say, for the most part, ignore the fans when it comes to adapting a comic book property. Most are unreasonably opposed to change or a reinterpretation that makes sense. They can also occasionally be wrong about casting choices as well. From about age 12 to 16 I read X-Men comics (or X-Factor, or Wolverine, or any of the spin-offs, usually never more than one title at a time 'cause I couldn't afford it). Even after giving up on Marvel comics, I remained a fan of most of what I'd read and the original animated series. When I heard they weren't going for colorful costumes, I was a bit skeptical (I knew spandex wouldn't work, but I figured at least colored leather like what we would come to see on Ben Affleck in Daredevil might work). The designs (though many characters have gone through several changes over the years) were iconic and part of who these people were...changed my mind about that after I saw the leather in action in the film. All Cyclops (who isn't even close to my top 10 favorite superheros by long stretch) needs to be Cyclops is his red quartz visor (or those sunglasses), a tight-ass attitude, and to be somewhat boring to make everyone else look better (I thought James Marsden gave a decent crying scene at the end of X2, I'll give him that). All Wolverine needs is his fuzzy oddly chopped hair, to be reasonably well-built, his claws, and a tough guy attitude.

There's this one comic book magazine, Wizard, plus a whole bunch of message board threads all over the internet, where articles and polls are posted on who should play which character for upcoming or theoretical film adaptations. Nine times out of ten, fans seem to pick actors more for their likeness to the drawn character on the page than for talent. Certainly a smart move when it comes to people like Patrick Stewart, who is similar to Professer Xavier in both looks and demeanor, plus he can act...but then again, I see a lot of WWE wrestlers making these lists simply because they're almost as built as some of these characters and happen to have the same hair. I'm not saying that most comic book fans are stupid, but I am saying that I believe a great many superhero fanboys aren't in tune with what goes into smartly casting a movie.

So yeah, ideally? A producer/director/writer won't ignore the spirit of the source material and it'd be wonderful if they'd consult the writer(s) of the comics...just ignore the fans is all.

Kris | March 21, 16:44 CET

Want my honest opinion? Joss is spinning this very well. He's got his fan base talking about Wonder Woman and he's dropping hints that could be interpreted as casting news which leds to much further debate amongst Joss fans and comic book fans.

All in all, good solid ground work for getting a buzz built up for the movie.

Simon | March 21, 16:46 CET

ARGH!!! Damned those pre-set release dates!! I mean, I'm sure that the X-Men fans would have been ok with waiting another year or so for the thrid movie... Right, right???? *sigh*
Oh well, atleast he got Wonder Woman and I'm sure that he'll be able to make that movie shiny. And Morena as Wonder Woman, that would be so sweet. She definately has that amazonian vibe going for her and she's pretty as a picture.

Djungelurban | March 21, 16:58 CET

RavenU - I saw Jewel but have never seen a picture of John Cassady before - was he the tall slim guy with long hair in a blue/gray shirt or the shorter bearded guy with the black shirt?

Every time I see JW in an interview (especially one without prepared questions as this one is), I am reminded of just how damn funny he is. He was dropping heavy hints about Morena and WW though- or was that one of his infamous distractions so the interviewer would stop asking about WW?

catalyst2 | March 21, 17:04 CET

"On another issue... i really love Morena to bits but she is most definately no Wonder Woman and i pray to god Joss is not pushing for that. I am a regular at several superhero websites where this has been discussed at length and i can tell you that this movie will bomb worse than Catwoman if Morena is cast... i've come across maybe three people tops that said MAYBE she would be OK... everyone else is dead against her."

Why is that??

April | March 21, 17:13 CET

Pimpernel, didn't you see almost-naked Inara in Firefly? Hardly slim and elfin, nor short. In addition, at least in Firefly, her character is not one who acts very "imposing" so we really don't know if her range includes that.

i still contend she's the best choice, and have yet to hear an argument to change my mind.

April | March 21, 17:18 CET

"The reason Keaton was able to pull off batman was cos the suit did all the work for him."

Bollocks. I felt he was great in the suitless scenes too. Shifty, intense. And even in the suit, it's still his body language. Too bad he didn't continue with the franchise.

Caroline | March 21, 17:19 CET

April i already said. She doesn't look anything like the character. I'm not just talking about in terms of facial features here... i mean WW has to be very imposing... she has to look like she can beat up Superman or go toe-to-toe with Batman and out-intimidate him... Morena just doesn't have that. She seems very girly... a mature and sexy girl... but girl and slight nevertheless. Seriously its a shame i can't post pictures here cos when you compare Morena right next to at least a couple of dozen artistic versions of WW you see how wrong she looks for the part. She doesn't have the presence.

Pimpernel | March 21, 17:23 CET

Caroline... yes but he could have been anybody without the suit. I'll ask you this: would you accept Jude law as Superman?

Pimpernel | March 21, 17:24 CET

You're basing that on only having seen her in one very soft and restrained role, in very luxurious clothing, and maybe one or two shots of her nude back. I don't think we really know what kind of looks she can pull off. Who knows, if she was hired maybe she'd be asked to work out. As others have said, they could film her with shorter actors around her or just have her stand on apple boxes or use CGI trickery to make her look taller. Making people look bigger, stronger, and more intimidating than they are in real life has been going on since the invention of film.

I'm not thinking of Morena as my #1 choice just yet, but I think she's definitely up there.

Kris | March 21, 17:29 CET

I mean this in the nicest way possible: you guys are kinda biased towards Morena you gotta admit.

Pimpernel | March 21, 17:32 CET

In my mind, Hilary Swank is no boxer but she sure convinced me she was in Million Dollar Baby.

April | March 21, 17:33 CET

Again... a random boxer... not someone who has previously been defined as having a very definite look for sixty years... any good actress could have played Swank's role.

She can tone up she can act opposite midgets she can wear contacts... she still won't look like Wonder Woman.

I'm sorry guys genuinely i love her and i've been a huge fan of Joss and everything he has done for the longest time... but on this one i'm an equall big WW fan and i want whats best for the character whereas you guys are mostly Joss fans rather than WW fans so its not such an issue for you to get this stuff right it seems.

Pimpernel | March 21, 17:38 CET

Pimpernel, George Clooney played Batman, too, remember that? No? Understandable. I saw it, but have little recollection of his performance. But he's a great physical type for it, so he must have been better than Keaton, whose Batman is indelibly memorable. Right?

Frankly, I think you're making a case for Kris' comment that comics fans (or some comics fans, anyway) shouldn't try to cast movies.

dreamlogic | March 21, 17:44 CET

Dreamlogic: Clooney didn't have a good physical type for Batman either really... besides it wasn't his fault he sucked... he wuld have been realy good with a better script... the script and the director sank that movie not him.

And i'm making Kris's case by rejecting one really bad casting choice? Yet how is it OK for Whedon fans to root for an actress that is very obviously not appropriate for the role just cos they like her in something else? It goes both ways.

Pimpernel | March 21, 17:53 CET

Thing is, Michael Keaton didn't embody Batman. He embodied Tim Burton's Batman, who was vague and appeared mentally wandering as Bruce Wayne and wholly dependent on gadgets as Batman. Me, I started laughing as soon as I saw one of the world's foremost martial artists appear onscreen in a costume that didn't allow him to turn his head. I had fun watching the movie, but it wasn't Batman to me.

I believe Morena can carry off the presence and the attitude, and the darker skin is fitting (Diana is Greek, after all, shouldn't she look Mediterranean?), but one of the qualities I have always associated with WW is imposing height. I trust Joss to make the right choice and make it wortk, but if it's someone who doesn't immediately sell WW to me then she'll have to earn it.

[ edited by Chris Bridges on 2005-03-21 16:03 ]

[ edited by Chris Bridges on 2005-03-21 16:04 ]

C. A. Bridges | March 21, 18:02 CET

Slightly OT, but I just thought of another candidate for WW: Liv Tyler - or has someone already suggested her. Also with those who are a little sceptical about MB, but we're only assuming that JW is pushing for her. They could be having a little laugh for all we know; or they could have just been standing together.

cmbackshane | March 21, 18:07 CET

catalyst2 - The tall nice looking guy with the long hair in the background was John, he is a real hottie.

Ok am I the only one that takes anything that may be spoilery like casting WW or even the invo jet comment with a grain of salt from the master of plot twist and mis-direction. Classic Joss to stir up fandom in only the way he can. We are truely his puppets and he loves to pull those strings, we are his ultimate toys. :)

RavenU | March 21, 18:13 CET

Chris Bridges: thanks... you hit it spot on.

WW shouldn't really have olive skin tho... she is always shown as being very pale and blue-eyed. Technically she is made from clay anyways so she should be a blank slate in terms of ethnicity... she shouldn't look like she comes from any specific place.

Cmbackshane: I hope you are right.

I go back and forth on Liv. Sometimes she looks like she could do it but a lot of times she just looks kinda soft.

Do a Google search for Jordan Bayne... it was reported about a month ago that WB contacted her agent to request head-shots cos she was being considered for the role of WW. She looks EXACTLY like WW does most times in the comics. The only person i've seen with a closer look than her is Jennifer Connelly who is the personification of Adam Hughes' Wonder Woman.

Pimpernel | March 21, 18:21 CET

i just googled JB and JC. i don't know that i've ever seen them in anything. i suppose they have the "look" but can they act well enough to lead a hollywood feature film?

April | March 21, 18:32 CET

Connelly won an oscar for A Beatiful Mind. She is a great actress and has been in a ton of good films... Requiem For a Dream, House of Sand and Fog, Dark City, The Hulk... plus she was a former gymnast so she can definately do the physical stuff.

Jennifer Connelly as Wonder Woman.

Bayne i'm not so sure about... i've been told she is a good actress tho. So far other than the Biel/Basinger rumour she is the only solid casting rumour to have appeared recently.

[ edited by Pimpernel on 2005-03-21 16:46 ]

Pimpernel | March 21, 18:44 CET

I should probably note that on several sites Connelly also tops polls as the favourite candidate for the role and has done for a long time.

Pimpernel | March 21, 18:48 CET

I actually think the best scenes in Burton's "Batman" are the ones with Keaton as Bruce Wayne. Great stuff, and there wasn't a batsuit even involved.

rbt | March 21, 19:03 CET

According to her IMDb biography, Jennifer Connelly is 5'7 1/2. No height listed for Morena Baccarin, but doing a little math...

I've met Joss. I'd say he's 5'10 and change, maybe 5'11. So, Morena standing next to him, depending on her heels, somewhere in the 5'3 to 5'6 range.

Why do you think Connelly towers over Baccarin? How tall do you think Russell Crowe is? Because you're judging from her movies, whether you realize it or not, which means you're judging by costuming, camera angles, and co-stars.

Nathan Fillion, who I've seen in person, is at least 6'2. Adam Baldwin is taller. Everybody looks short next to them.

My point, which I've been trying to make on another thread too, is that this shouldn't be a big casting criterion. You don't know how tall any of these people are anyway, and movie magic can change appearance dramatically.

dreamlogic | March 21, 19:12 CET

Regardless of who gets cast as Wonder Woman... Will Debra Winger be available to play her sister again? Just kidding. Actually, I would love to see Lynda Carter cast in some sort of cameo role. She still looks amazing if you watch the DVD interviews she gave on the box sets of Season 1 & 2 of the 1970's TV series. She's got to be in her 50's, right?

toontimer | March 21, 19:12 CET

George Clooney was a horrible Batman. I hated his smug look through the movie.

Moreana is ok but not my first choice, I'm not sure she can play "tough" but like others have said thats only because Inara never got the chance to act imposing on Firefly.

eddy | March 21, 19:13 CET

I finally saw the video (I had to find a computer in my house that was not a Mac), and didn't get the impression from it that Morena is a done deal.

I'm a big fan of WW - and have been since the 1960's (which tells you something about my age). I can accept WW not being a lily white, blue-eyed giant. You have to remember that when WW and Superman and other mainstream comic book characters came out, ALL the characters in comics were white. It was part of the racism of the time - where people of color simply didn't exist in fantasy world. Times have changed, and while racism is by no means gone, I think we should be ready to accept that our superheroes don't all have to be lily white. Wonder Woman with an olive complexion makes more sense considering her origins.

Catwoman didn't fail because Hallie Berry is black (after all, Eartha Kitt was a very cool Catwoman in the 1960's). It failed because the story sucked, and Hallie's acting is not always reliably good.

I don't expect Joss to write a sucky story for WW, and he tends to get great performances out of his actors. If Morena does turn out to be his choice for WW, he may have good reason other than her outward appearance.

One after-thought about the height issue - James Marsters isn't all tall, yet he came off as very imposing as Spike. There are ways of making little actors seem larger than life.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2005-03-21 17:30 ]

Nebula1400 | March 21, 19:27 CET

Keaton did embody Batman. I think the point that you could put anybody behind the suit is so bogus. I mean if you get a bad actor on screen, isn't he still a bad actor behind a suit? Not to mention that Keaton was a good Bruce as well. It worked because of Keatons acting ability behind the suit or not. The mere fact the franchise started a downward spiral after he left is no coincidence.

Back on topic though, I think Morena is the best choice. You just look at her and say that's Wonder Woman. As much as I like CC, she doesn't have the acting range IMO to pull this off. Plus Morena is still relatively unknown. Because of the complexity to even get this movie to succeed I think that is important that people don't go in with any preconceived notions about the character. Casting CC would bring that into the movie.

DarenG | March 21, 19:28 CET

Bobtaylor: yes but nobody cares how the alter ego looks... what counts is how the actor looks in the suit as the superhero... thats what folks pay to see... and without some pretty extensive wardrobe trickery Keaton would have looked ridiculous in the suit.
Morena will not have the luxury of hiding behind a foam body-suit... she will be considerably more exposed and has to embody the character on her own merits... which she very much does not do.

Pimpernel | March 21, 19:33 CET

For me, what makes a great comic book movie isn't ideal or perfect casting. Like most Americans who go to see the movies in the theater, I'm not uber familiar with the source material. Re: Batman, I'm more familiar with the secondary material, the cartoons and movies, than the comics. What I want more than ideal casting (physically and talent-wise) is a good movie, and a lead actor who can embody the role in strange and compelling ways. Which is why I was never bothered with Michael Keaton as Batman; I think he's a great actor, and his scenes as Bruce Wayne are fascinating when compared to his Batman scenes. His Bruce Wayne is slightly distracted, as though disconnected from the reality of his "real" life, while his Batman is ultra-intense and aware, like a live wire. It's why Batman Returns is my favorite comic book movie -- that plus Michelle Pfeiffer's interpretation of Catwoman.

Have any of you seen Hellboy? I'm not familiar with the comic, but I've read in interviews with the director that he considered Ron Perlman the perfect actor to be Hellboy--really, the only choice, and del Toro fought long and hard to make the movie with Perlman as the lead even though he wasn't a "name" actor. The movie is perfectly charming and Perlman is great as Hellboy, and this is the perfect solution, but I fear that there is no actor as perfect for WW as Perlman was for Hellboy. He had the looks, the experience with acting through the prosthetics and the acting chops.

Connelly is a good choice but for 2 problems: she's gotten really, really thin in the past few years. There's no way I would describe her as statuesque. And while she's a good actor, she's somewhat of a dour actor. There's always something of a deep & still sadness to her, especially in her eyes, and I can't see her cheerfully leading a comic adaptation as the heroine.

I like Morena (as Joss might!) because while physically she's not ideal, she's not totally wrong and she has many interesting qualities as an actress. She has beauty, an unusual lightness to her presence and can convey emotions beautifully with her eyes and voice. I think she has the acting chops (say the Keaton factor), if not the vote from the dedicated-to-comics contigent. I also think most of this is immaterial because we're discussing whether or not Joss might possibly be leaning toward her, never mind that many other people and entities are going to have says in this decision.

dottikin | March 21, 19:35 CET

Navi Rawat. :)

Maeve | March 21, 19:35 CET

DarenG: Obviously when i said you can stick anyone in the Batsuit i meant any GOOD ACTOR... the point is the actor's look is less important cos of the mask.

A lot of people are getting hung up on the height like thats the only thing wrong. Its not. Apart from having dark hair Morena has NOTHING about her that says Wonder Woman. She is just all wrong for this.

Pimpernel | March 21, 19:40 CET

Dottikin: Perlman was absolutely perfect for Hellboy. His look and manner and bearing and everything just screamed Hellboy.

You say there is no perfect actress out there but there is: Connelly. Many WW artists openly acknoledge that their interpretations of the character are based on Jennifer Connelly. Look at any Adam hughes cover and the resemblance is there. She isn't too thin these days either. She got pretty skinny when she turned vegan a few years back but if you watch her most recent movie House Of Sand and Fog she is back to a normal weight and is pretty curvy. Also Wonder Woman most likely will not be light and cheerful like Spider-Man and co... she is a pretty earnest and character these days... Connely's manner is perfect for the role.

Pimpernel | March 21, 19:47 CET

Pimpernel, I think you need to cool down a little. Nobody's been cast yet and there will be plenty time to completely freak out over who has been cast as a comic book character once that's happened. (Though not on this site, thanks.) Please give people some space to think and post instead of posting twice in a row all over the thread.

Would I accept Jude Law as Superman? Absolutely. He's an actor, he can probably inhabit the character. Should we wait until humans can fly before we let someone put Superman's suit on again?

Caroline | March 21, 20:19 CET

She's brunette. So if nothing else, not "all wrong".

This argument is too heated, and kinda dumb. I think we should go back to talking about how stupid invisible jets are. :)

ringworm | March 21, 20:22 CET

Hesitate to get involved in this, but I have to respond to one comment.

you guys are kinda biased towards Morena you gotta admit

Well, no. I, like pretty much everyone in the world, am biased towards what I know and what I'm familiar with. I know that Morena is a great actress and physically is not completely wrong for the part. (I know that Jennifer Connelly would seem to be a good choice too.) pimpernel, you are speaking, rather vehemently, from your knowledge of the comic-book. But if the movie is a success, most of the people seeing it won't be comic-book fans, and their only knowledge of WW will probably be Lynda Carter.

Personally, I'd prefer Joss to surprise us with a complete unknown - he has such a gift for finding great talent. And I hope he does not feel at all constrained by whatever or whoever the hardcore fans insist is the *only* choice: that way leads to surefire movie purgatory. IMHO.

SoddingNancyTribe | March 21, 20:26 CET

lol I like the invisible jet, only because JW could pull off something so corny. but I don't think even he could pull off the spangles, so I'm kinda happy about that. When I first heard of Buffy I thought it was the most ridiculous concept. Same for Firefly. And Firefly was better quality for a first season, than Buffy, imho of course. If JW's WW is ultra modern/sorta futuristic, I hope they have the jet. But I'm a goof.

April | March 21, 20:27 CET

I'm hoping Joss will find a clever way to poke fun at the idea of an invisible jet . Even when I was reading the comics as a kid, I thought it was kind of lame.

Nebula1400 | March 21, 20:32 CET

Ringworm: What! How can you say invisible jets are stupid?
Don't you have any respect for tradition?
LOL
Sorry, I'm trying to get worked up here. I'm actually hoping Joss does include the invisible jet
(he kind of promised he would in that video interview)
just to see how he handles it.

I am always excited about any project that Joss Whedon thinks is worth his time and energy,
but I hope he does get it made quickly
(did he say it might not come out until 2007?!),
because I am very impatient.

If we were taking a poll here I would still vote for Gina Torres for WW
but I have to say that I would love to see Morena get the role too.
They cast fairly big name stars for Spider Man and Cat Woman, and I don't think it really made much difference pro or con.

embers | March 21, 20:32 CET

I could quite happily lose the invisible jet, The Lasso of Truth on the other hand has to stay in.

I'll be very interested to see what elements of Greek mythology Joss incorporates into the movie.

Simon | March 21, 20:33 CET

I am totally cool thanks although i don't appreciate your tone. I wasn't aware that addressing points raised was "completely freaking out" as you put it. No offence but there aren't many Wonder Woman fans at this site so as a fan of both Wonder Woman and Joss i thought maybe it would be a good idea to take this opportunity to correct a few misconceptions set forth by people who have little or no familiarity with the character. I've been mostly polite and well-mannered and reasonable... apparenty this kind of behaviour is wrong somehow. Bascially you are saying don't discuss Joss Whedon related things on a Joss Whedon discussion forum? What exactly is the point of your site then?

Pimpernel | March 21, 20:38 CET

Well the point of the site is definitely not to freak out over a casting that hasn't been casted with no idea on who is Whedon's choice to be casted.

Everyone take a breath and count to 3.

eddy | March 21, 20:46 CET

Pimpernel said:

...and without some pretty extensive wardrobe trickery Keaton would have looked ridiculous in the suit.

Ummm ... yeah. If the suit is poorly designed, ANY ACTOR will look ridiculous in it. And besides, in the best superhero movies ("Superman," "Spider-Man 2." etc.), the alter ego is created to be just as vivid and interesting as the heroic half of the character. Burton dropped the ball with some of the Batman/Joker stuff ... but his and Keaton's Bruce Wayne was dead on.

"It's Japanese."

"How do you know that?"

"Because I bought it in Japan."

rbt | March 21, 20:47 CET

Pimpernel said:
nobody cares how the alter ego looks... what counts is how the actor looks in the suit as the superhero... thats what folks pay to see...

Not true. Peter Parker is a geek. While many artists have drawn him as vaguely handsome, or at least strikingly average, especially as he's gotten older, he is a geek through and through and is often portrayed that way. I thought it was awesome that they cast Toby Maguire. Even if you don't like his acting, if only for his looks you gotta admit they created a really good, convincing live-action Peter. Personally I don't think Maguire is a pretty-boy (though he sure did a nice job on toning that body for the films), he pulled off being nicely average and awkward perfectly IMO. Exactly as it should've been. If they had cast someone like Colin Farrell as Spider-Man, it most likely would've been a mistake. Hugh Jackman makes a convincing Wolverine out-of-costume (forgetting for a second that the leather movie costume is different from all the variations in the comics), especially in tank tops. I could list more...So it's just your personal opinion that you and a number of others only care about what the actor looks like in the costume, don't word it like you're speaking for everyone. It's easy to stick a buff guy in a suit though and call him that superhero, especially if said character has a full mask to go along with the outfit...it'd be terrible if they cast movies that way though.

Jennifer Connelly seems like a strong potential for the role as well. Thought she was excellent in Requiem For a Dream and all right in Hulk and Dark City. I have my childhood memories of her in Labyrinth as well, though they're vague so I can't recall how well she did. I don't see anything that makes her a stronger candidate than Morena Baccarin though. They seem as equally likely to get the role (Connelly if they're going for a bit more of a name actor, Morena if they want someone unknown outside of Firefly fans).

[ edited by Kris on 2005-03-21 18:57 ]

Kris | March 21, 20:52 CET

Great interview! Seeing Morena in real life makes me also think she'd be a good candidate. But I still think Claudia Black would be great in the role too. I have faith that Joss will pick someone perfect for the role. I didn't get from the interview, though, that it was going to be Morena or that he is hinting it would be. They both seemed to be having fun with the idea of teasing the public though.

I was more excited about his comments about Firefly and that there were things he couldn't do in a movie but only would've been able to be done in a series. I'm hoping that if the movie(s) is a big hit that there will be interest in bringing back the series to TV. Now, I know Sci-fi turned it down originally but that was then and if the movie is a hit that will make a big difference in it's appeal. Doesn't Universal own the Sc-fi network?

Anyway, as always, enjoyed watching Joss in an interview and I hope he gets to make the rounds on late night tv when Serenity gets close to airing. He's so funny and quick it would be fun to see him with Leno and Letterman.

Firefly Flanatic | March 21, 20:53 CET

Eddy: see i'm totally calm so i don't understand why everyone else is freaking out. Its starting to seem like you gotta say what everyone wants you to say or you get jumped on. I wasn't freaking out over anything... i thought we were all having a civilised discussion about what type of actress could play WW... suddenly i'm being told i'm in the middle of an argument. Its bizarre.

bobtaylor: aye i see what you are saying but its not really true. Have you seen the suit from Batman: Dead End? Its a fan film and the suit is really low-tech and cheap but the actor makes it totally work cos he is buff and tall and fills it out right. You are right about the alter egos of course but what i meant was that the lok of them is not so important. It actually hlps if an alter ego looks LESS heroic than the hero. Seriously i'm not disputing that Keaton is a god cos i love those movies... all i'm saying is that as BATMAN the suit did the work... i mean he could barely move much less emote... it was the suit all the way.

Pimpernel | March 21, 20:59 CET

I thought NBC owned Sci-Fi, but I don't know who owns NBC.

April | March 21, 21:02 CET

Pimpernel, I'm grateful that you've shared many insightful comments about Wonder Woman. But there comes a time to step back and let a few other folk chime in. Whedonesque is not a debating club or the Oxford Union, or a boxing match, where we're trying to score as many points as possible. "Calm down" was a signal that you don't have to respond to every single other post on this subject. One or two thoughtful posts will do - we all got the picture that you think Morena Baccarin is not right for the part. You don't have to repeat that over and over. It's got nothing to do with "saying what everyone wants you to say" (have you seen the differences of opinion on this site?), but about respect for others, and allowing a discussion, rather than a confrontation, to develop.

And if you're not sure of "the point of the site," you might want to spend a little more time lurking and reading other members' posts. You could also read the About section. What this site is emphatically *not* about is ding-dong disputes and speculation over casting.

Oh, and if you want to respond to this post, please e-mail me or one of the admins. I think any further discussion about site policies should be taken off-board.

SoddingNancyTribe | March 21, 21:02 CET

April, I believe that Universal and NBC are a partnership.

Firefly Flanatic | March 21, 21:04 CET

Kris: i see what you are saying but they could "geek" covers a multitude of sins... they could have cast anyone from Adam Brody to Topher Grace in that role and they would technically have ticked all the boxes just as well as Tobey.

As for Connelly over Morena... Connelly has the look whereas all Morena has is dark hair. Its like saying Clive Owen should be Superman cos he has the right colour hair. Google some WW covers... better yet Google Adam Hughes and Wonder Woman and see how she is supposed to look.

Don't get me wrong i'm not saying Connelly is the be-all-and-end-all for WW. She is just a good example and by far the fan favourite on numerous sites.

Personally i'd prefer if Joss went out and found an uknown that looked the part... it can't be too hard.

Pimpernel | March 21, 21:08 CET

Bye bye, Pimpernel.

(Sorry SNT, this one's beyond help, I think.)

Caroline | March 21, 21:24 CET

Speaking as a WW fan before I was a Joss fan, I just want to say I trust his judgement - it the casting director's I would be concerned with. :)

I wouldn't care if he slapped a wig on Marsters and put him in the spangles and boots if he felt he could pull it off. It's all about creating a sense of disblief and if the actor, director, and writer have done their job right you will be entertained by it and you wouldn't even notice it.

RavenU | March 21, 21:36 CET

I wouldn't care if he slapped a wig on Marsters and put him in the spangles and boots if he felt he could pull it off.

Okay, now that is just uncalled for. I had a perfectly good image of Claudia Black in the Wonder Woman costume in my head and now all i can picture is James! Really not the same thing! :)

Kaine | March 21, 21:42 CET

Aha there we have it, this is really the Spike movie in disguise, Spike in drag fighting vampires and demons should really surprise the WW fans and comic book readers but they will get used to it, finally we get the movie we wanted all along :)
( or how about Illyria wouldn't she be the perfect WonderWoman ?)

Seriously I hope that Joss finds a previously unknown face for this, someone that starts with a clean slate and can really make the role her own, like what they have chosen to do for Superman.

jpr | March 21, 22:05 CET

There are also budget concerns. An unknown will cost a lot less than a known. If they cast a few well-known people in supporting or ensemble roles (as was done with X-Men) to draw in the non-fanboys and girls, and Serenity becomes a big hit, who needs a famous star playing WW?

Then again, I could go for James in the outfit... and the invisible plane!

Nebula1400 | March 21, 22:11 CET

Amen, RavenU. I have no strong feelings one way or another about who should play WW *except* that (a) she should be Joss's choice (not imposed from above), and (b) that she be a very, very good actress. Morena Baccarin, whatever her physicality, went to Julliard. That's a pretty good seal of acting approval in my book. Should she be WW? I don't know. Slap her in a WW costume and I suspect she'd be up to the task. (Again, amen, RavenU.) But whatever Morena does next, it'll be interesting to see the range she has in her. There's more than Inara in that girl.

A perhaps useful comparison: wasn't Amy Acker's Illyria a delightful surprise? I thought Amy was great as Fred but didn't suspect that she had Illyria in her. She seemed so fragile and birdlike and jittery as Fred. But wow did she exude the power - physical and mental - that Illyria was meant to have. Morena Baccarin might very well be able to pull a similarly affective transformation.

That said, I love the idea of an unknown actress.

phlebotinin | March 21, 22:21 CET

As far as having an 'unknown actress' play WW, how unknown do you have to be to be an 'unknown', if anyone can follow that? Most people would have no idea who Morena is unless they've seen Firefly, and so would consider her relatively unknown. Her imdb page lists only 6 roles, and all in the last 4 years. So would she qualify as an unknown, or can that only apply if the actress has had no roles at all?

Serefina716 | March 21, 23:41 CET

Invisible jet: To me you can't even begin to speculate until you know what era the movie takes place. Is it set in present day or 1940s? If it's present day, an invisible jet could very well be a stealth like plane.

Casting: I don't think height is so much an issue. Many top actors are short. They just hire people around them who are short or shorter. The key I feel is when Joss commented on hiring an "olive skinned beauty."

Costume: Again, I think this is more of an era influenced decision. If it's present day he may go with a less rah-rah USA type look. If you notice the insignia on her chest has evolved from an American eagle to a "W." I think it may be more along the lines of what they've done with Wondergirl. I think so long as they don't mess with the colors they'll get it right.

IMMORTAL | March 21, 23:51 CET

I don't understand what's so cheesy about an invisible jet. Because I'm ignorant of Wonder Woman comic books, I guess I can't really be a good judge, but it seems that the Lasso of truth would have a higher cheese potential than an invisible jet.

Meh, what do I know, I like the over-the-top camp of the original Batman series (and movie).

PS. Cast someone who can act the part first, and look the part second.

Caleb | March 21, 23:57 CET

General Electric owns NBC, and NBC/Universal are a partnership like AOL-Time Warner.

eddy | March 22, 00:00 CET

Serefina716, I think many are also asking for unknown as far as "hasn't worked with Joss before". I'm finding myself in this camp as well.

brownishcoat | March 22, 00:29 CET

I don't have to believe Morena or anyone else as WW until she's up on screen in the gold bustier. If they wanted WW to look exactly like the WW from the comics, they'd make an animated feature film.

I prefer an unknown as WW (unknown to the publilc and to the Joss fans) since the man has a talent for giving us new people to love and adore. And I can always use more of them.

If Joss can pull off the invisible jet, good for him. I'm not dubious because I have faith in Joss. But the jet has always been some serious silliness. I'm almost afraid of the lasso. Primarily because I'm from Calgary, and the lassos I've seen are less mystical and more cowboy-lame.

pixxelpuss | March 22, 02:34 CET

Regarding the argument that Morena shouldn't be WW because she's not imposing: Witness Amy Acker, who is so cute, wispy and la-la-la as Fred. Never would I have believed she could carry an imposing butt-kicking role like Illyria. But Joss knew. I'm going with my usual In Joss I Trust.

looking | March 22, 03:46 CET

looking, now there's a t-shirt I want!

Willowy | March 22, 03:52 CET

Yes, finally someone mentioned Navi Rawat. I think she would be an interesting WW. Either she or James... hehe. Though honestly I'd be interested in seeing what Amy Acker could do in the role.

lekiare | March 22, 03:53 CET

A perhaps useful comparison: wasn't Amy Acker's Illyria a delightful surprise? I thought Amy was great as Fred but didn't suspect that she had Illyria in her. She seemed so fragile and birdlike and jittery as Fred. But wow did she exude the power - physical and mental - that Illyria was meant to have. Morena Baccarin might very well be able to pull a similarly affective transformation.

Thank you, phlebotinin! As I'm reading through this massive thread of posts, the entire time I'm thinking "why hasn't anyone mentioned Illyria?" It's the perfect comparison, and just shows that one's physical stature is hardly the only means to, as you put it, exude power. And if Joss has (or had) Morena in mind while writing the script, I'm sure he'd tailor it to her strengths.

WindTheFrog | March 22, 04:17 CET

I can only get it to play a little over half way through, and there does not seem to be a way to download it, including from that link that someone was nice enough to provide to Simon.

Is the rest worth my going crazy trying to find a way to view?

From what I saw, I have to come down on the side of no one having a lock on the role and MB being an actress who has let Joss know she is interested. That is the end of my contemplation of this, I think. :-)

newcj | March 22, 04:18 CET

I couldn't disagree more with you pimpernal. I am of the opposite. Nothing about Jennifer says WW at all. Though I think she is a good actress she has no shot at this part IMO. The character needs to have some physical presence and JC does not. JC is a great actress but not with this type of part. It doesn't fit her talents.

I don't think an actress has to look exactly like the comic. TM as Peter Parker, MK as Bruce etc. are few examples. However, each one of them had that look that just made you think that's him. Jennifer doesn't have that. Morena does. You take one look at her and I have no doubt she could play Diana Prince or WW. If she doesn't get the part then I also agree it should be an unknown.

[ edited by DarenG on 2005-03-22 02:44 ]

DarenG | March 22, 04:43 CET

Invisible jet: To me you can't even begin to speculate until you know what era the movie takes place. Is it set in present day or 1940s? If it's present day, an invisible jet could very well be a stealth like plane.

The Nazi's were designing stealth jets near the end of WW2 (That's World War Two, not the Wonder Woman sequel...)

I'd love a throw away line From Wonder Woman that she has an invisible jet but just can't remember where she parked it.

zz9 | March 22, 05:06 CET

cj: I was able to download it and I put it here:
http://s22.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1W2SK7GBPAX9N1I9CAJDCMZGGD
I thought that Joss seemed to indicate that there was only one person he wanted,
"I have my one position...I don't have a number two"
or did I misunderstand him?

zz9: too funny, yes you would think there would be a problem with misplacing the invisible jet.

embers | March 22, 05:49 CET

For all the mac users of the forum:

Mac OS X users can usually use VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-macosx.html) to play windows media files.

If that doesn't work you can download WMP for OS X (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherproducts/otherproducts.aspx?pid=windowsmedia)

Caleb | March 22, 06:10 CET

zz9 - That's beautiful.

Everyone else - After reading that one comment, I'm all about the Marsters in the spangles.

Daromaius | March 22, 06:12 CET

I'd love to see Morena do it: as Inara she perfected a combination of soft femininity and steely presence. I admit I don't know anything about the Wonder Woman comic, but guess what: neither does 80% of the target audience (i.e., everybody). I'm not saying to rip off the fans completely, but who cares if she has blue eyes or not? There are always color contacts if it makes any difference.

Ilana | March 22, 06:15 CET

Actually, I think there are many women from the Whedon's Wonderful World of Actresses who could do it. Morena of course, CC, Jewel Staite, Amy Acker (Actually, I just want to see ANYTHING else from her, I'm in LOVE), Gina Torres, a certain Summer Glau, Yeesh, what about the girl who played Amy the ratgirl? What about Amber Benson (I bet she could TOTALLY play superheroine)? What about Kennedy (or rather the actress)? What about Michelle Trachtenberg as a young amazonian? What about YoSafBridge? BEJESUS, what about ELIZA FRICKIN DUSHKU? I don't care what they look like (although I do get the naughties over picturing a few of them in the bustier and boots). Joss is the magic director and he makes even some actresses that I haven't cared for into brilliantly believable characters (even when playing what they weren't cast as). The real question we should be asking is Who will Jonathan Woodward be playing?

pixxelpuss | March 22, 06:48 CET

Christopher Reeve's eyes were not as blue as they appeared in the Superman movies. Eye color can be digitally altered and there's always contacts.

Then again, Dean Cain played an olive-skinned, brown-eyed Superman and we lived.

Nebula1400 | March 22, 06:49 CET

Does the video end as Joss is talking about "invisable jet I can work with?" It does not seem to be the end but it always stops there, going through ember's link or however. Thanks, BTW to ember and Caleb and Celebithil for trying to help the rest of us out.

newcj | March 22, 07:16 CET

To all you guys having problems with downloading the video. Right-Click the link here, and select "Save Target As" or "Save Link As" (depending on which browser you use. Then select a location in your computer, and the download should begin.

NickSeng | March 22, 07:40 CET

If you have dialup, it indeed may slow down the viewing process. I opted for the "Save Target AS" thing and it quickly downloaded, and I viewed it all. Pretty cool. Now I can look at Joss or Morena whenever I want!

ps Was very surprised to read that Morena is only 25. She really can portray the "worldly" woman well.

April | March 22, 08:28 CET

www.wonderwoman-themovie.com : this is not the official website, right?
'Cause it has "Jordan Bayne" in the keywords...

Zamm | March 22, 19:49 CET

Zamm I'm reckon that's just a fansite. If you type in www.wonderwomanmovie.com , you'll see it goes straight to the Warner Bros movie site.

Simon | March 22, 20:01 CET

WW can lose the invisible jet, as long as I'm allowed to have it.

looking | March 22, 21:12 CET

A quick question, please. I couldn't get the link to work on my goofball system and was hoping someone could be a little more specific with what Whedon said about X-3? Was he offered the film? Was it just dicussions? Was his reasons for not doing it all based on a pre-set release date? thanks for any answers.

Unitas | March 23, 00:33 CET

Jordan Bayne is the best contender I've seen for the role of WW. I adore Morena, but it's hard for me to see her as WW.

zencat | March 23, 04:41 CET

Unitas, Joss more or less said they had discussed it but because the schedule was so tight and definate they stopped talking about it early on.

newcj | March 23, 09:37 CET

Thanks, cjl. I appreciate it.

Unitas | March 24, 09:12 CET

March 21 2005