Marti is a class act through and through. I wish her the best.

Gunn 2 N's | March 24, 01:15 CET

So sad for Marti. Hey, she's all freed up to do a few Spike movies. :)

April | March 24, 01:19 CET

Come back to Buffyverse, Marti! We love you!

Harmalicious | March 24, 01:21 CET

Marti is a class act through and through. I wish her the best.

I agree. Well, hopefully she'll move on to bigger and better things now. Emphasis on the "better". Not to be mean...I'm just sayin'. I'm sure she learned some things from Point Pleasant and I have high hopes for her.

VampiresSuckLOLOLGetIt | March 24, 01:23 CET

American Idol got cancelled?

charisma | March 24, 01:28 CET

I wish Marti every success and hope that she found the opportunity to bring PP to air to be a valuable, enlightening, and eye-opening journey, driving her to dust herself off and dive into her next project with that much more insight, focus, and experience. I'll keep my eye out for that next project and happily give it a try.

Angela | March 24, 01:32 CET

i truly dislike the idea of not airing the remaining episodes of a show once it's been cancelled. it's not like the network will find anything besides reruns to fill the slot.
anyways, best of luck marti.

rsfayez | March 24, 01:34 CET

Im sorry for Marti, and also Elizabeth Harnois, who was a self professed Buffy fan (so for just that she deserved success)

Good luck in the future for whatever you do in the future Marti!

Apocalypse | March 24, 01:50 CET

I wish they would show the remaining episodes, it would be interesting to see how it all ends. Good Luck Marti! Keep writing, we'll keep watching!

MandyMouse | March 24, 01:56 CET

I tried liking the show but it just wasn't for me but I really like Marti and think she's great! Hopefully her next project will be successful! Best Wishes Marti!

Firefly Flanatic | March 24, 02:10 CET

What FF said.

WWBD | March 24, 02:14 CET

I was watching the latest Point Pleasant episode here in the UK and my wife told me the news about the show getting cancelled. Thing is I was really enjoying the episode too and felt the show was finally getting into the swing of things. In case any US posters are wondering which episode it was, it was one where Boyd gets tied to the chair and gets doped up on a truth drug. It almost felt like I was watching a Buffy episode.

Anyway, kudos to Marti. She tried her best, it didn't work out and I hope she finds a new show very shortly.

Simon | March 24, 02:19 CET

Really not surprising news but it is a real shame for Marti, not to mention the rest of the cast and crew. Hope they all move on to bigger, better things soon.

Kaine | March 24, 02:25 CET

while it wasnt up to Marti's usual par, I still would've liked to see how it ends. You cant count on fox to keep anything they havent already been showing for at least three years--and let's face it, That 70s Show is bled dry. I'm willing to admit that PP didn't deserve a second season, but the least Fox could do is run the remaining episodes. They certainly wont be airing anything else worth watching, at least they could've counted on the viewership of the few but proud PP friends.

redtenko | March 24, 02:26 CET

WHAT? NOO! I need to see the next episodes.... DAMN you fox.

Rogue | March 24, 02:27 CET

Wow, I'd forgotten how ruthless Fox can be. The show has already disappeared from the network's website.

www.fox.com/pointpleasant? Nope not any more .

Simon | March 24, 02:29 CET

I wouldn't worry, Redtenko. This time next year when the next show they have in that slot has failed i'm sure they will air the last few Point Pleasant episodes to fill a few weeks. Nothing like a Tru Calling or Point Pleasant to make up the schedules for a while. ;)

Wow, the website has gone already, Simon? Fox really don't waste any time in distancing themselves from cancelled shows to they!

Kaine | March 24, 02:32 CET

Warlock, they did the same for Wonderfalls from what I can remember.

Simon | March 24, 02:33 CET

Well, i guess it shouldn't come as any surprise to us by now. We all know that unless you happen to like a cheaply made show that happens to please as many viewers as possible, regardless of quality, there is no way you can expect to get fair treatment from a network. It would be way too much to ask for Fox to at least have had the courtesy to let the fans of the show see the last few episodes. I didn't even particularly like the show and Fox still managed to piss me off yet again.

Kaine | March 24, 02:39 CET

The last episode with the Boyd on a chair scene was really good, yeah, I definitely got a Buffy vibe from that. Tru Calling also found its feet in season 2.

Caroline | March 24, 02:42 CET

I agree that they at least should finish out the season. It's not fair for the fans who do like the show and want to know what's happening. I'm thrilled we are getting Serenity at the theaters but when Fox canceled Firefly I was so upset and dismayed! I felt like I was just getting to the best part of the best book I ever read and it and every copy of it was destroyed so I'd never know what was going to happen.

It should just be a policy that if a show is given the green light to air it should be allowed to finish out it's season and given time to wrap up the storyline if it isn't coming back for a second season.

Firefly Flanatic | March 24, 02:42 CET

Naturally, just as it was finally starting to get interesting, FOX pulls the plug. I'm SO annoyed!

Marti, I feel your pain.

Is it too late to move to Europe?

Maeve | March 24, 02:43 CET

Were all 13 episodes filmed?

Melisande | March 24, 02:44 CET

Charisma asked: "American Idol got cancelled?"

If this were a fair and just world, that would be so.

Fox is on some sort of pattern. Shows like Firefly, Point Pleasant. Wonderfalls and Tru Calling are obvious examples. There may be others. Fox shows a new series for awhile and if the ratings aren't what they like right out the gate, they cancel it without showing all the episodes, then come out later with a DVD set that includes those episodes not shown, thus giving people ample reason to buy said DVD sets. If I didn't know any better, and come to think of it I don't, I'd think they were doing this on purpose to insure a higher increase in said DVD sales. Is this shrewd business dealings, or are we all just saps for an elaborate corporate scam? Whether it's a scam or shrewdness, I think it's just flat stupid. Any successful tv series goes through a couple years where it tries to find its audience. Seinfeld went through name changes and a lot of creative turmoil before it became one of the most successful tv series of the 1990s. Star Trek Next Generation didn't get its sea legs until late in the first season with the re-introduction of the Romulans. The first year of Happy Days looks dramatically different from the more successful years of the series. The people running Fox have not studied the history of their own industry. You can't pull out of such an investment in less than one season without guaranteeing you lose your shirt. I can't imagine them doing this for any other reason than the belief that DVD sales will outdo any advertising profits they could get by keeping it on the air.

In short, the Fox network executives are a bunch of shee-niou chiang-BAO HOE-tze duh tah-shr SUO-yo DEE-yure duh biao-tze duh MAH! Huh choo-shung tza-jiao duh tzang-huo! Tyen-sah duh UH-muo! Lao TYEN yeh! Tai-kong suo-yo duh shing-chiou sai-jin wuh duh pee-goo! Dong-ma?! Tzao-gao! Tah mah duh hwoon dahn! HOE-tze duh PEE-goo!

Changing the subject deliberately (while staying on topic for the thread), Marti Noxon was responsible for producing season six of Buffy, easily my FAVORITE season of the seven year run of the series. She's a talented producer. I remember people dissing Noxon during season six because they didn't like how dark the series had become under her wing, but I thought it was great! Season six is the Empire Strikes Back of the Buffy series. Great work. Entertaining and enlightening. Thought-provoking fun. My favorite kinda entertainment - the kind that makes you think.

Marti Noxon should be proud of her accomplishments and I'm sure she'll be successful in whatever the future has in store for her, WhedonVerse or no.

ZachsMind | March 24, 03:04 CET

Frankly, I thought PP was just starting to get interesting. I look forward to stalking out Noxon's backyard for the sock puppet version of season 2.

GrrrAargh | March 24, 03:08 CET

I thought PP was getting better too. I want to see what happens. Oh, well. It wasn't the best show, but it was fun to watch when I had nothing else to do on Thursday nights.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-03-24 01:50 ]

electricspacegirl | March 24, 03:28 CET

"American Idol got cancelled?"

Sorry, wasn't clear. Apparently there was a graphical error on American Idol last night, basically they didn't put the correct phone numbers to vote on. So they are re-doing Tuesdays episode again (a new live episode but exactly the same as yesterdays, not technically a repeat but getting there). This then pushed the results show to Thursday, with TC already being scheduled on Thursday for the following 3 weeks (two eps a night), Fox decided to simply cancel PP (which previously may have seen out May sweeps) That's my interpretation anyway

Ocipital | March 24, 03:36 CET

I feel bad for the PP crew, a lot whom worked on Buffy and Angel. At least now they might have a chance landing jobs on pilots, since PP's cancellation was inevitable.

PP was getting better. I saw the episode about the dance written by Zack Estrin (Charmed,Miracles, and he also wrote the best episodes of Tru Calling) and that was much better than the sappy teen stories it start out with.

I'm hoping the fans do get sock puppet theater. Maybe if there is enough demand for the DVD, that could be a bonus feature.

FaithFan | March 24, 03:49 CET

I too thought it was just starting to get better. Oh well. I guess this is my last chance to point out that in an alternate universe that Jesse kid would have been a perfect choice looks-wise to play Angel's son.

melsta | March 24, 03:50 CET

FOX, meet kittens. Mew, mew, gurgle, gurgle.

Ocular | March 24, 03:56 CET

[Zach returned later to cuss out Fox some more in chinese very badly pronounced mandarin, but has been sacked by the censors. Those reponsible for sacking Zach have also been sacked. Thank you. Try vacationing in Sweden this year, ja? It's very nice.]

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2005-03-24 02:30 ]

ZachsMind | March 24, 04:28 CET

And they had just ordered episode 13. I do hope all of them got made. That way when the DVD comes out (we all know it will so Fox can cash in on it) it will have them all. I really wanted to see what was going to happen next.

norman | March 24, 05:09 CET

OMG, not ANOTHER American Idol results show. Does this crappy show have to get its claws into every single broadcast day?

eddy | March 24, 05:34 CET

Putting Tru Calling on in its place is rather grimly ironic. Oh well, it was getting to be fun while it lasted. Catch you next time, guys.

Craig Oxbrow | March 24, 05:35 CET

When Wonderfalls and Firefly and Angel were cancelled, I was pretty gutted. They were all excellent shows that I loved, the fact new episodes wouldn't continue to be made really hurt.

When Tru Calling and Point Pleasant were cancelled? Eh, not so much. I never got into either.

Regardless, it's sad simply because Noxon was involved, and I'm a fan. I feel bad for her, because, damnit, season 6 was the best.

Hopefully she goes on to greater things in TV land.

/me watches Wrecked.

Gonnas | March 24, 06:40 CET

Thanks ZachsMind, But the last time I was In sweeden my sister was bitten by a moose. She was carving her initials on the moose with the sharpened end of a interspace tooth brush....

adventures in spelling | March 24, 08:38 CET

"Season six is the Empire Strikes Back of the Buffy series."

What a great way to put it! Season 6 was my favorite season of Buffy, also.

Cancelling Point Pleasant was inevitable, but it was getting better. I also liked the last episode. It did almost feel like an episode of "Buffy."

Among the problems with the show were characters I couldn't care about, and a main character who was so out-of-focus, it was impossible to identify with her. In Buffy and Angel, essentially WE were Buffy, or WE were Angel as we watched these shows. We experienced what they experienced, and felt what they felt. They were the metaphoric representations of US. When we couldn't identify with them, there were other characters so richly developed, we became those characters. Who among us wasn't Willow or Xander or Spike or Wesley at some point as we watched? This was the case from the very first episode of Buffy. It didn't take several episodes to warm up to these characters. They grabbed us from the start.

THAT didn't happen in Point Pleasant.

Nebula1400 | March 24, 08:54 CET

Got to say that I have a lot of time for ZachsMind's conspiracy theory re Fox not showing the remaining episodes in order to boost DVD sales. I don't know if this has been raised before but do you think Wolfram & Hart might have been modelled on a TV network at all? Nah, W&H wasn't THAT ruthless....
I left Point Pleasant after a few episodes as it didn't quite do it for me, but as others have written I will be there with my pom-poms supporting Marti's next project, so good luck to her.

Bill Door | March 24, 11:33 CET

Dammit. Had I known Marti posted 6 days ago on the official Point Pleasant board, I would have linked to her message about trying to get fans to save the show.

Here's her in message in full:

Simon | March 24, 13:18 CET

PP seems to be one of the shows that will never make it to Swedish tv and based on what I've read so far I dont think I'll bother to buy the DVD's, better luck next time Marti N.

From what I've seen for PP it seems clear that TV show's must hook their intended target audience within the first 4-5 episodes, if they dont they will be replaced. By the 5th episode the audience, the journalists and the tv networks have made up their mind whether a show is a keeper or not, saving the good stuff for later only ensures that your DVD's are remembered fondly.

No need to speak badly about Sweden, we are depressed enough as it is around here, even if things are starting to look up now that spring is arriving, the snow is melting away and there is hope of sunshine sometime soon.
For TV addicts being on a permanent six month delay for most series and missing out completely on others will make you even more depressed but DVD's can be lifesavers.

ZM, Your theory regarding saving episodes for the DVD's is probably spot on and yes in the summer Sweden definitely is a nice vacation spot.

ais, I believe the golden rule applies to moose as well. If you treat the moose nice they'll treat you nice, if not you get what you deserve.

I still prefer S3 to S6.
My reasons for thinking less about season 6 than previous seasons is based on the fact that by then I had invested a lot in the 'take charge' Buffy, Buffy as the super hero. The relentlessly downbeat season 6 where every character in one way or another proved to be less than they could be left me with the feeling that in the season where the big bad was described as 'life itself' they lost the fight or at best achieved a draw. Might be realistic but it left me feeling sorry for them and with no one I wanted to identify with.

I am actually a big fan of the darkness in Buffy and Angel, bad things happening to good people on a regular basis does make for good tv, but it requires a fine balance.
Much of the difference to me lies in who is in control of the situation, in most of S3 Buffy is in control, in S5 'Checkpoint' she is very much in control, in most of S6 she is not in control of events and neither are any of the rest of the gang.
In S7 Buffy is back in the drivers seat, to many speeches maybe but also a 'Showtime' and 'Chosen' to balance it out. My selective memory skips Buffy getting kicked out of her own home, I choose to read it as her needing to leave the useless hangers-on behind to recharge her batteries and go kick some Caleb butt. Not exactly what was shown on screen but I guess a(nother) speech by Buffy where she tells the potentials and her friends how useless they are and then leaves the house would have gone against the theme of the season. In the tradition of 'show not tell' writing they instead get the chance to show exactly how useless they are until Buffy comes back and saves them.

jpr | March 24, 14:06 CET

I am sure it hurts like hell at the moment (no lame pun intended) but best to put this down as a learning opportunity and lots of luck with the next project - I will be watching. I am also a very big fan of season 6, so we know the lady is more than capable of coming up with the goods.

In the meantime, picnic in Marti’s back garden it is then. I hope there will be an episode where puppet Angel fights sock puppet devil and, just to cheer Marti up, James and his sock gets thrown into the mix.

BTW, Sweden is a very nice place, well worth visiting. I used to work for a Swedish company and go to Stockholm all the time. Never got used to that funny pinky fishegg stuff you all go on about though. What’s up with that?

miranda | March 24, 16:50 CET

Can't believe Fox already yanked the official site!!! Jerks.

'Course, I hadn't gone there in several weeks, maybe no one else did either. *sigh*

April | March 24, 17:14 CET

In terms of quality, I'd say season 3 was the empire strikes back. Season 6 was more like the phantom menace.

It's a bit unfair to be complaining here. Point Pleasant was a show that was given everything. It even had a goddam American Idol lead-in. Yet despite this, it haemorraged viewers from episode 1. Can you imagine if it had lasted a whole season? Compared to Firefly's 15 eps? Considering just how much Point Pleasant sucked, it just wouldn't have been fair.

The only thing you can blame Fox for here is that they approved Noxon's script in the first place.

As for Noxon's next show, I wouldn't hold my breath.

She's not like the other buffy writers. If you look at the other writers, you'll find that they had writing careers before buffy, and from what I've seen, they wrote well.

Look at Noxon's imdb page. She began at Buffy. Her only writing acheivements of note were in the first three seasons of Buffy, by her own admission years heavily guided by Joss. Since then, what has she done? One movie, by all accounts unremarkable to be kind. One rejected pilot. And of course Point Pleasant.

She is not capable of running a show on her own, and never has been.

Her only talent so far has been drawing material from a very screwed up relationships. But while that's good for writing the odd episode of angstiness, it can't sustain a whole season. Or even half of one.

Dym | March 24, 17:17 CET

My goodness, that's a damning assessment of Marti Noxon's abilities.

Oh well, we all see these things differently. Personally, I find Noxon quite inspirational. It saddens me that 'Point Pleasant' didn't work out and I hope it won't be too long before something new comes along.

alien lanes | March 24, 18:02 CET

miranda, I suspect you refer to the (in)famous Kalles Kaviar, the cheap version of caviar usually served on sandwiches, frequently offered to foreigners when they ask about specific Swedish food, the packaging looks like a toothpaste tube.

*Start commercial* Can ususally be found together with Swedish meatballs at your local IKEA store. *end commercial*

jpr | March 24, 18:48 CET

Can someone fill me in on the Tru Calling airing again confusion?

MySerenity | March 24, 19:16 CET

dashboardprophet:

Inspirational?

Could you explain?

Dym | March 24, 20:58 CET

"...it left me feeling sorry for them and with no one I wanted to identify with." Seems kinda contradictory to feel sorry for people you can't identify with...

I love Season Six. How much credit goes to Marti I don't know. Most people here talk as though Joss simply dropped off the planet for that season, but, busy as he was, everything I've read suggests he was setting all the themes and major developments of the season and reviewing all the scripts. So I think we really haven't seen Marti on her own before. Not to say PP was indicative of her talent, just that she hasn't had the practice martialing a talented group of people to achieve her vision.

Edit: Dym, if he's talking about S6, I'd say it was an amazingly inspirational arc. Doing away with the Big Bad was incredibly courageous move, and it showed us what real, believable human evil looks like in Warren: small, petty, contemptible even in its capacity for horrifying destructiveness. And removing the pressure of saving the world allowed the flaws we all knew the characters had to finally emerge unrestrained. They almost ate the characters alive, in fact. But at the end of the day, the characters triumphed. They faced the very worst of themselves and each other, and survived it all. That, too me, is endlessly more inspirational than killing a giant snake.

[ edited by Andarcel on 2005-03-24 19:21 ]

[ edited by Andarcel on 2005-03-24 19:22 ]

Andarcel | March 24, 21:13 CET

Oh. I thought he meant Marti Noxon herself was inspirational.

In my opinion, the ideas for s6 were good. I don't believe in the "too dark" school of thought. However, it was just so shoddily executed. My greatest disappointment about season 6 was that with the themes they were trying to introduce, it could have been brilliant. Yet someone managed to take those ideas and create such utter crap.

It's much the same with Point Pleasant. The ideas weren't that bad. This show could have been great. But it was just so shoddily executed from day 1.

See the pattern?

Dym | March 24, 22:00 CET

Well, no, I don't see the "pattern," because I don't agree that Season 6 was shoddily executed (and I haven't seen Point Pleasant). I continue to believe that Marti Noxon was one of the finest BtVS writers, that some of her best episodes came after Season 3, and that many fans' apparently personal dislike of her is a fall-out of their (totally legitimate, if wrong ;) distaste for Season 6. But, hey, I've written defending MN at length on several previous occasions. All we can do right now is agree that opinions will differ.

SoddingNancyTribe | March 24, 22:11 CET

"utter crap" ?

Sorry, Dym, have to disagree. Nothing I've seen from Joss, especially anything on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, has ever qualified as "crap".

I personally enjoyed season 6 tremendously. Three is my favorite, but that's neither here nor there. And I don't think PP ever came close to even the least of BtVS's episodes.

Willowy | March 24, 22:13 CET

And how many of us were hooked by Season 6? I know I was. I tried with PP, but ultimately, I still have 3 or 4 eps on the DVR I haven't even seen yet.

I wonder what the ratings for the unaired episodes of Tru Calling will be? To me, it was a much more entertaining show.

brownishcoat | March 24, 23:02 CET

I couldn't agree more Willowy.

MySerenity | March 24, 23:27 CET

Back to topic. Strike two!! Come on, Marti, what's the deal here? I suspect you maybe getting hamstrung by the producers and such. Time to say no and do your own thing? Just a thought from a person whom cares. Good luck.

Madhatter | March 24, 23:47 CET

So the episode previewed last week won’t be shown? Sort of like “Next week on Wonderfalls… eh, never mind”. Must make a show’s creator feel pretty special when Fox treats them like dog poop it’s trying to wipe off its shoe.

Simon said:
“Thing is I was really enjoying the episode too and felt the show was finally getting into the swing of things. In case any US posters are wondering which episode it was, it was one where Boyd gets tied to the chair and gets doped up on a truth drug. It almost felt like I was watching a Buffy episode.”

Almost. It *was* the first episode where I felt a real sense of suspense and a desire to know more about some of the characters and their moral and mental dilemmas. Still couldn’t bear most of the acting, but I think the directing was exceptional. The director of that episode, James Contner, had directed episodes of Firefly, Angel and Buffy, if I’m not mistaken. If PP was “designed to be more of an adult show”, I wish it had given that impression in the beginning instead of starting out like Satan does the OC. Oh, well, too late now.
I’m sure everyone involved in making the show is feeling pretty crappy right now, but I know Marti will succeed at something else and I wish her all the best.

bloodflowers | March 24, 23:51 CET

dashboardprophet: Inspirational? Could you explain?

Probably not, to be honest, without boring the pants off everyone with details of my background, both persoanl and professional. I do find Marti Noxon an inspiration and I have a huge amount of admiration for her. I find the criticism she receives for her handling of S6 utterly mystifying... on the subject of which, Adarcel, I thought your explanation was excellent (thanks for that).

In my opinion, the ideas for s6 were good. I don't believe in the "too dark" school of thought. However, it was just so shoddily executed. My greatest disappointment about season 6 was that with the themes they were trying to introduce, it could have been brilliant. Yet someone managed to take those ideas and create such utter crap.

I couldn't disagree more, but everyone has there own opinions about these things.

alien lanes | March 24, 23:51 CET

I hated S6 and 7. Well, hated is a strong word. It didn't do anything for me, it went places I wasn't interested in, made choices I wouldn't have and focused on characters that weren't my darlings and I fully admit that last one being the biggest reason.

I did think there was a difference in execution and coherence, as opposed tot the grandeur that was S2 and 3 (and parts of S1), but I rather blamed it on budget and some kind of seven year itch. No show is perfect from start to finish, the stars don't always align that way. Firefly was great, but had it continued, inevitably there would have come a point where it wouldn't have been great anymore.

Point Pleasant needed more time. Perhaps a lot more time. Perhaps a different cast. Perhaps fewer characters. But there is no time anymore. In the same way that young bands don't get to make a dodgy second album anymore, it's one strike you're out in TV these days.

Here's a crazy idea to cheat and give yourself more time. Perhaps TV makers could take a different approach... take their story to the stage first. Work the cast in front of an audience until they have their parts down pat and the ensemble has gelled. Recast if necessary. Then start filming TV episodes. Gives the show a head start. (Probably unfeasible, too expensive. What do I know about TV making. Nothing.)

Caroline | March 25, 00:16 CET

"Can you imagine if it had lasted a whole season? Compared to Firefly's 15 eps? Considering just how much Point Pleasant sucked, it just wouldn't have been fair."


Dym, its already unfair that PP and TC both outlasted Wondefalls!

eddy | March 25, 00:31 CET

I like Marti. She really does seem like a good person, but PP just didn't do it for me either. I tend to agree with a lot of what Dym has said, though I do believe that she can take something on if she doesn't make the mistake of having a cast of people who lack interest, writers that won't write for what they'd like to see, and I think she should have taken a different approach to PP. I just didn't like the plot at all. Evil? Sure. But, Satan? No, ty. And what was up with that teenage-looking priest?

Christopher | March 25, 01:10 CET

ZachsMind you are SO right! S6 was the Empire Strikes Back of Buffy.

I for one am a fan of Marti. I do understand what you mean, Dym. Having the slayer as a less than "ass kicker" so far along in the series was quite a risk. But, Marti and Joss had to balance out the hugeness of her death. It wasn't an easy fix, Willow brings her back...all is good...let's stake some vamps...yum cookies. Doesn't work that way. All the characters dealt with some heavy stuff that year and Marti and Joss did a superb job at grounding the season putting life at the center of evil.

Marti, grab Jane, Doug, and/or Drew and get this Spike movie going! We are behind you every step of the way!!

Harmalicious | March 25, 01:27 CET

Personally i love season six, but if i'm honest i really disliked it the first time around, watching it in weekly episodes on Sky One. There was a definate change in the atmosphere and feel of the show that really did not entertain me in the way i was used to when watching Buffy. In fact that was the first year that on some weeks i actually found myself looking forward to Buffy ending so that Angel would be on.

The second time through was when it came on BBC 2 and again i found that it wasn't working for me. It wasn't until i got the DVD set that season six really kicked into gear for me. Not being limited to waiting whole weeks between episodes it didn't feel so disjointed and the character development seemed a lot more fluid. I won't pretend it is my favourite season of the series but i still very much enjoy watching it now.

Well, except Doublemeat Palace, but i have a detest of all McDonalds/Burger King type places and so watching Buffy working in one really didn't work for me. Is it just me or would anyone else have chosen working in the Magic Box to working in that grease pit any day of the week?

Kaine | March 25, 02:54 CET

Season 6 is where I came in. How can I not be inceredibly still in love with it. It's what got me into Joss and Buffy. I always was a little freaked by Buff before, wasn't into the horror. After season 6 I went out and bought all the earlier DVD's and Angel also. Now I'm lovin the horror ;)

nixygirl | March 25, 03:16 CET

Warlock, I never really understood Buffy's decision to not work at the Magix Box. Sure, the hours were going by slowly, so she claimed, but I work at a fast food place now and it's even worse than what I imagine it'd be to work at the Magic Box. Plus, she could help research and train during slow hours. And what better job to have than one that saves time, tackles 2 problems at once, and is so great you get to work with the people you care about most?

The Doublemeat Palace thing really didn't work for me because I felt there was no reason at all to be there. I'm sure Marti's excuse would be something along the lines of "well, season 6 was about pain and suffering," though, right?

Christopher | March 25, 04:01 CET

Yeah, i actually do get what they were trying to do with the whole Doublemeat Palace thing. Basically season six was about making Buffy's life about as miserable as they could manage and working in that place would go a long way to making me wish i was actually a patient in an asylum, hehe.

Like you say though, Christopher, there was the option of working at the Magic Box that Buffy most likely could have gone back to at any time. Giles certainly would have left the position open, regardless of whether he was there himself or not. Okay, Anya may not have been the easiest person to have had as your boss but between working for her in a nice clean shop, with all the training and research benefits on hand as you mentioned, and the other option of flipping burgers and coming home stinking of greasy food? Well, for me the choice would be very easy indeed.

Kaine | March 25, 04:22 CET

Having Buffy work at the Doublemeat Palace was exploring the opposite of the American dream, the American nightmare. It is a pervasive and important part of American society that made sense to explore in the context of the season. The punchline of the joke "What did the English major say to the engineering major after graduation?" is "Do you want fries with that?" not "Have you checked our specials on potions and incantations?" They also have Spike ask her if she took the job to prove something, "A normal job for a normal girl?" which she may have. She did, after all, have social services looking over her shoulder so "normal" would be key. Also if I recall correctly Giles was gone by then so if she worked at the Magic Box Anna would have been her boss...Yikes...Not a dream come true by any stretch of the imagination. Not to mention that for many of us, working in a place makes it a much less desirable place to hang out after hours.

Season 6 hooked me on Buffy in reruns because I appreciated the serious exploration of something I had not really seen on TV before. I do not consider it a mess by a long shot. Even so, I find it strange that people make judgements and lay blame for what they did not like about the season without having been part of the process to see what actually happened. Marti Noxon is obviously talented. What she is or is not capable in the future is totally conjecture. What exactly happened during Season 6, like each person's opinion of it, is also opinion, with rumor, and conjecture thrown in for good measure.

I wish MN well, I'm sure she will find the place that is right for her.

newcj | March 25, 04:53 CET

I also was one who had issues with season six when it initially aired. It seemed to drag too much in the middle of the season. But after I got the dvds it has become one of my favorite seasons. Shows like Buffy, Firefly, Angel, Lost, Alias etc aren't meant to have two - three week breaks between episodes because it really messes up what the writers are trying to express and lead us to.

Once I got to see it uninterrupted I could appreciate how great it was.

And Buffy not wanting to work at the Magic Box made a lot of sense. She felt alone and isolated from the group and she really didn't want to remedy that. Working at the DoubleMeat palace gave her the opportunity to get away from everyone. Remember she not only saw them there all the time but she saw most of them at home too.

[ edited by Firefly Flanatic on 2005-03-25 04:59 ]

Firefly Flanatic | March 25, 06:58 CET

I find S6 good. It has some strange things, but overall I found it good. I use to find it really good, but S7 did not sufficiently reflected back on S6, which was necessary.

Koos | March 25, 13:08 CET

Don't get me wrong, like i said before, i do get what they were doing with having Buffy work at the Doublemeat Palace. I just don't see how anyone could put themselves through working in a job like that when they did have another option, no matter how much they hated themselves and their lives.

Send yourself to a hell dimension, fine! Walk weaponless into a nest of fifty extremely powerful vampire, sure! But work in a burger joint? Wow, Buffy REALLY must have hated herself! :)

Kaine | March 25, 13:59 CET

I was finally starting to look forward to "next week on Point Pleasant..."! The previews for this week's episode of PP were intriguing, as was last week's episode. I turned on FOX at 9pm last night, and there's American Idol. Dammit.

I can't believe the networks cancel a show and don't follow through with airing the remaining episodes. What about all those major cliffhangers?? They have no respect for their viewers!
I really hate investing time in a show to have it yanked off the air. Granted, the show was pretty awful for a while, but it was just starting to become really good.
Well, why would I expect anything more from FOX? It's there M.O.

Do you think a DVD will be released? (I really don't want to buy a DVD of the entire season. I do want to see the final episodes since I invested time in watching every episode of PP since it's inception, good or bad, hoping it would improve.) Gosh darn it!

creepy6 | March 25, 21:16 CET

I´m sorry for Marti :(
I haven´t seen the series so... i can´t comment.

I hope she will get a job as soon as possible.

Angel TheVampire | March 26, 00:31 CET

Since the cancellation of ATS, it's hard for me to jump into a new show, (Like Veronica Mars) which has huge critical acclaim and people love but not the audience that automatically gets you renewed. Honestly, I thought ATS would make it, and I am still not over it.

I think the WB gave me a complex.

twiggy | March 27, 05:22 CET

I'd have to agree with that, Twiggy. One of the benefits of living in the UK is that by the time you get to see most US shows you have a fair idea if they are going to make it to a second season. Things have been changing in recent years due to us getting shows a lot sooner than we used to, sometimes earlier than the US by the end of the season, but you can usually still get a good idea.

The downside of that, of course, is that you end up not really watching anything at all. Knowing that a show will most likely be cancelled in the near future doesn't give you any incentive to try it out when it finally starts airing.

Kaine | March 27, 05:30 CET