I gave Veronica a shot, but was decidely underwhelmed. Just was not at all impressed or interested. Not appalled, as in the case of Charmed, but not interested at all.

Simpsons is the only thing we watch any more.

And Buffy and Angel and Firefly DVDs, of course.

Chris inVirginia | March 24, 20:05 CET

I have to say I love Veronica Mars and I think its writing is top notch. I glad the critic's agree too, which makes me worry about its future, but hopefully UPN will realise that this show can really help improve the network's image.

brob1 | March 24, 20:30 CET

I actually think Veronica Mars' first season blows both Buffy's and Angel's out of the water, so I really hope to see a second season to see if they'll improve even upon that.

Melisande | March 24, 20:32 CET

Does Veronica Mars have any sort of Whedonesque connection, aside from Aly guest starring on one episode? I tried watching the show but was quite underwhelmed. I might check it out when it hits DVD though.

MindPieces | March 24, 20:36 CET

She'll star in two. But yeah, the link is pretty tenuous.

[ edited by Dym on 2005-03-24 18:47 ]

Dym | March 24, 20:45 CET

MindPieces - basically, just the umbrella premise of an outcast teenage girl coming into her own in a world that is seemingly out to get her. Aside from that rather broad generalization, the shows aren't similar at all.

Not to say I don't love VM. I do. I saw one episode and I'm hooked.

Daromaius | March 24, 20:47 CET

I linked to this article because of the Firefly mention, the Veronica Mars bit's just a bonus. ;)

Storyteller | March 24, 21:01 CET

The pilot ep of VM was great and it hooked me within the first ten minutes but since then it has gone down hill. I am not sure why but the few eps I saw after that just didn't deliver what I wanted it to. I had to high of expectations after seeing the pilot, I guess. It is still a descent show but I will probably hold off on watching anymore until the DVD set comes out.

Spikecam21 | March 24, 21:07 CET

Does Veronica Mars have any sort of Whedonesque connection, aside from Aly guest starring on one episode?

Well, no... It doesn't really. But somehow it just feels appropiate with Veronica Mars topics here on Whedonesque, atleast to me. It's sort of an adopted child to the Whedonverse family.

Djungelurban | March 24, 21:30 CET

Sort of like Dawn you mean?

Storyteller | March 24, 21:39 CET

hmmm, but then the first show she quotes from is 'House' which is on opposite VM. I am hooked on Veronica Mars. It's not Buffy - it's more like Nancy Drew with insecurities and cool digital gadgets - but she does rely on help from a few oddball friends.

I was watching a VM re-run, and at 9:50 I thought "If I switch to 'House' right now, I will see his patient having seizures and then he'll accidentally pick the right treatment." So I switched it, and I was right. How's that for predictable?

I'm sticking with Veronica.

Revello | March 24, 22:20 CET

Yeah, but who watches House for the plots?

I watch for Hugh Laurie.

Melisande | March 24, 22:23 CET

Anybody think the Hugh Laurie character on House looks alarmingly like the increasingly haggard and desperate Wesley in Season 4?

And, he went from foppish Bertie Wooster to the hardened House character...a similar arc that Wes in Season 3 of Buffy underwent en route to sharing a bed with Lilah!

Other odd note: Wesley is an Englishman played by an American, and House is an American played by an Englishman...

Chris inVirginia | March 24, 22:40 CET

Yes, lately I've thought that House has that hardened, buff and hot appeal that I liked so much with Wesley. Yes, the plots are, well, silly. However, the acting of Hugh Laurie and the character of House are just too entertaining. I find myself watching every week.

killinj | March 24, 22:50 CET

hmm, maybe I didn't give VM a good enough shot, but I can't see it coming close to Firefly in my eyes. They could suffer the same fate, but I doubt VM will make it to the big sceen like the BDM will :)

MySerenity | March 24, 23:29 CET

MySerenity said:



That's true. But, inversely, "Veronica" made it through a whole first season (and will likely get a second season pick-up). If only Fox was as patient with "Firefly" as UPN is being with "Veronica."

(I look forward to "Serenity," but between the big damn movie or another year and a half of hour-long TV episodes, I would have gladly chosen the small-screen option.)

rbt | March 24, 23:54 CET

I watch VM but fall asleep by 9:30 so I've stopped watching because I don't know what's happened. If it came on earlier like at 8 I would watch it every week.

charisma | March 25, 00:54 CET

Does this show EVER air in Canada? I think it'd be more popular if it was actually known about here..

Christopher | March 25, 01:13 CET

I guess I never tuned in to VM coz of the Hugh Laurie fetish.

Haven't stuck with it every week, though, because I'm really getting sick of the same damn story every single time.
The Hugh factor overrides the plots just enough for me, of course. Hadn't noticed the Wesley similarity, but it sure is right on.

April | March 25, 01:25 CET

Yup, who watches House for the plots? In fact, last week's medical plot got so entangled and silly that at the end I worked it out that the patient had something like FOUR separate and distinct reasons for his illness. I've always been a fan of Hugh Laurie, since the halcyon days of Blackadder, and he's really hot as House--all rugged and sarcastic. It's also nice because so far the ratings have been good and even if it gets cancelled, my heart won't break into a million pieces or anything. It's a fun and silly show with a bravaura performance at center--what I think of as brain candy.

I would watch VM, but everything I've heard so far has underwhelmed me. If it gets a second season and does even better, critically (unlike Joan of Arcadia which had a much-lauded 1st season and then went creatively down for the second) and emotionally, I'll probably catch up. And in defense of both BtVS and AtS, I'll say that they were both "cold-starters" -- shows that had potential and interesting facets about them in the beginning, and only got better and more interesting when they grew up. A lot of TV shows are actually the opposite, having really good first seasons (like The Sopranos) only to go downhill creatively afterward.

dottikin | March 25, 01:26 CET

VM is a complex and arc-heavy show with continuity and interesting (but gradual) character development. It might not hook you after a couple of episodes, but I don't think it's supposed to. It is very involving if you give it enough of a chance. It's a very smart and satisfying show with several ongoing mysteries that evolve a bit with every episode.

/soapbox

keysersoze | March 25, 07:58 CET

Veronica Mars is debatably the best written show on TV right now and I think UPN would be stupid not to give it a second season. It will no doubt have very good DVD sales which should translate into improved rating next season.

Veronica Mars needs our support, so I'm happy that whedoesque has articles on the show from time to time and it is my Buffy substitute show and that is enough of connection for me.

Zoic_Fan | March 25, 09:49 CET

VM is good stuff for broadcast primetime here in the States, and I sincerely hope there's enough faith in it at UPN for it to stick around. For a first season, it's been remarkably strong, and that Kristen Bell is as cute as she is smart.

(I've also been thinking she'd make a wonderful Melaka Fray, come the day such a project gets put on the ME table for consideration. Consider before you scoff -- she's got the sassy 'tude, the killer strength/vulnerability combo, the crackerjack timing to deliver those snappy lines, the trim little bod, the wide blue eyes, and the blue/pink/purple hair ... well, that's nothing a day in some punk salon couldn't fix. I can see her heisting some fabulous loot already!)

Wiseblood | March 25, 10:02 CET

Kristen Bell as Fray in a Fray movie is my idea as heaven. I am so their.

Zoic_Fan | March 25, 12:29 CET

I like the way you think, Wiseblood. Kristen Bell would make an excellent Fray. I hope we get the movie someday.

electricspacegirl | March 25, 13:33 CET

"I've also been thinking she'd make a wonderful Melaka Fray, come the day such a project gets put on the ME table for consideration."

Now you're talking, Wiseblood. Big or little screen adaption of Fray is my first choice on my Whedon Wish List. It's the Buffyverse we love, but so far removed from Buffy it really is Fray's own story. That one scene got me, and I got teary. You know which one. Any graphic novel that can do that, well, I say no more. Soooooo typical of Joss. He made me care.

April | March 25, 17:17 CET

Actually, now that you have suggested the idea, i can really picture Kristen in the role of Melaka Fray. Very good call, Wiseblood.

Kaine | March 25, 18:43 CET

I posted how Veronica Mars links to the Whedonverse in November of last year, but the mods on the site didn't agree with me.

I am loving Veronica Mars, but it is in the absolutely worst time slot for the week. Even with a 2-tuner DVR, I have to skip watching something I want every Tuesday because of everything on at 9 p.m. Scrubs (my favorite show on TV, definitely the best comedy), Amazing Race, House (which I finally saw a few weeks ago and love) and the aforementioned VM are all on then.

The links to the Whedonverse for the show are as follows -- three guys who have directed a number of episodes of Buffy and Angel, and the guy who did sound for each of them also does it for VM:

John T. Kretchmer - Director of Buffy and VM episodes
Nick Marck - Director of Buffy, VM and Angel episodes
Scott Remick - Assistant Director of Buffy and VM
Kurt Kassulke - Sound for Buffy, VM, Angel, and Firefly

brother_grady | March 25, 19:36 CET

Clearly there are links, brother_grady, however you have to admit that they are bordering on extremely tenuous. I would imagine that if you look hard enough there will be a way to link pretty much any show to Buffy, Angel or Firefly, for one reason or another.

Personally i would say that unless the article specifically relates to an ex cast or crew member from one of Joss's shows then it doesn't belong at Whedonesque.

For example, if there is an article about Lost that features a specific interview with David Fury, then i would post it here. However, just because David Fury happens to work on Lost now doesn't mean that all Lost articles are fair play. Same goes for Veronica Mars. Articles that relate specifically to the people you mentioned might just be worthwhile to post here (although they are a stretch at best) but that doesn't make every Veronica Mars article Whedonesque material. That's how i see it anyway.

Kaine | March 25, 19:51 CET

Warlock, appearently you're a minority cause everyone seems happy with it and in the SOS post atleast 85% of all Whedonesque posters said that they supported Veronica Mars. It might not have a factual connection to Jossverse, but there's definately a spiritual connection.

Djungelurban | March 25, 20:04 CET

So directing episodes of both Angel and Buffy AND directing episodes of Veronica Mars is a tenuous connection?

I don't get it. You all take those who are writers on multiple shows (Marti Noxon, etc.) and say there are direct links but directing, which I'm assuming means that one must stay one set for a full week for every moment, only merits a tenuous connection? Weird.

brother_grady | March 25, 20:13 CET

Warlock and everybody else you can safely leave moderating and what belongs on this site to the moderators.

Caroline | March 25, 20:18 CET

I agree with Warlock. VM is a good show, but it's not Whedon. And as he said, we shouldn't post EVERY Mars article here, just the ones that pertain to Whedon people.

Willowy | March 25, 20:29 CET

Sorry if you took that the wrong way, Caroline, i wasn't trying to step on any mod toes. I was just explaining how i decide which articles i personally choose to post here is all.

Kaine | March 25, 20:30 CET

So the connection for this specific article
is that Firefly was mentioned as a comparison(?);
I get that.
I do think though, that Veronica Mars has the kind of smart/funny writing
that makes reviewers remember how much they always loved Joss Whedon's work.

embers | March 25, 21:07 CET

OK, Warlock, no problem. Also, it's absolutely fine to discuss this kind of stuff at the Library - there's no restrictions there and no moderation (though hopefully youse will all be nice to eachother!).

Caroline | March 25, 22:17 CET