Getting two nominations is quite an honor, but perhaps a mixed blessing, as some votes for one may be siphoned off the other.

On the other hand, both "Smile Time" and "Not Fade Away" are phenomenal.

If I had to vote, though, I'd have to go with the latter. As in Buffy's "Graduation Day Part Two" and "Becoming Part Two" there is so much going on in NFA, so many delicately interwoven character and plot threads, so much visceral and intellectual impact that it's almost surreal. I have watched it maybe nine or more times, and it just gets better and better and better.

[ edited by Chris inVirginia on 2005-03-26 23:33 ]

Chris inVirginia | March 27, 01:32 CET

NFA has my vote between the two episodes of Angel.

However, as I have not seen the Stargate Episode, or the Battlestar Galactica Episode, I cannot make a judgement as to what should win based on merit.

Sentimental favorite: NFA then.

NealM | March 27, 02:07 CET

I hope NFA wins. It leaves me hollow and wanting more.

charisma | March 27, 02:23 CET

I think that Smile Time gets way more credit than it deserves. Then again, what other t.v. verse would take do something as daring? That's what I love about the Whedonverse. We have it ALL.

Christopher | March 27, 02:24 CET

Getting two nominations is quite an honor, but perhaps a mixed blessing, as some votes for one may be siphoned off the other.

Vote splitting is actually not a problem for the Hugo awards, since they use an instant runoff ballot, where you get to rank all the candidates; if your top choice gets eliminated, your vote is immediately transfered to your next favorite, and so on.

On another note, I always thought it was a pity that the separate categories for "short form" and "long form" dramatic presentations were only introduced quite recently. This meant that Buffy's OMWF was still competing directly against the first Lord of the Rings movie when it was nominated. Had it been in a separate "short form" category, like CWDP a year later, it would most likely have won.

[ edited by bovik on 2005-03-27 01:25 ]

bovik | March 27, 02:24 CET

Mmmmmm, if I were a betting man I would say the most votes would go to Not Fade Away and 33. Both very good episodes, both very shocking in their own way. Too close to call.

Simon | March 27, 02:27 CET

Thanks for the clarification, bovik...but nonetheless, suppose somebody's top choice is NFA, and the second is not Smile Time...see what I mean?...a dilution of support for Angel...but this does seem a better and more equitable vote distribution.

Chris inVirginia | March 27, 02:48 CET

I would go with NFA also. Although Smile Time is an excellent comedic episode, the dramatic ones resonate with me more. I like NFA much better than ST, becuase it tells so much about the characters (how'd they'd each choose to spend "the perfect day"), and the events have much more of an impact on the story than Smile Time.

And I always love the episodes that tear my heart out. Smile Time didn't do that, but it did make me laugh a lot, and made me squee at the end when Fred (finally!) kissed Wesley.

electricspacegirl | March 27, 02:51 CET

Yep, electricspacegirl, and then our hearts got ripped out almost immediately...are we all masochists??

[ edited by Chris inVirginia on 2005-03-27 01:01 ]

Chris inVirginia | March 27, 02:54 CET

Yep, elictricspacegirl, and then our hearts got ripped out almost immediately...are we all masochists??

Judging by some of my favorite episodes (Becoming, The Gift, A Hole in the World, Shells, NFA), I think I certainly am.

electricspacegirl | March 27, 03:04 CET

Wow, that's got to be a first for me, I watch all the shows in that category. It's a great selection of episodes too but I agree with ESG that Smile Time is an excellent comedic episode and that's hard to compete with the dramatic storylines the other four episodes are up for. I think I agree with Simon though that it will be between NFA and 33. I think the great thing about 33 was it was so early into the shows history and it had such an impact. I was amazed with how caught up I was with the characters and the storyline so soon into starting to watch the show. And on the opposite end of that, NFA was such a fantastic series finale when so many are so boring or cliched. Definitely going to be a close one.

Firefly Flanatic | March 27, 03:12 CET

No kidding...kind of like why my utterly favorite Shakespeare is Hamlet, King Lear, and Othello...and Racine's Phaedre...and Sophocles, too...jeez, what does this say about me/us/humanity?

Those are definitely among my absolute favorite episodes of Buffy, no question.

The Message, in Firefly...right up there, too. The full-circle nature of the story, from the episode's beginning to the end, to the time of Sgt. Reynolds to Capt. Reynolds...just gorgeous.

Chris inVirginia | March 27, 03:13 CET

People used to enjoy public executions. It's human nature. We're all deeply disturbed.

charisma | March 27, 05:06 CET

Very interesting choices. I haven't seen any of Battlestar Galactica or Lost yet. The former due to it not catching my eye when Sky One showed it and the latter due to it not being aired here until July, i believe. Either way i can't judge them fairly.

What's left are four excellent episodes of two of my favourite shows. The Stargate two parter was easily a highlight of season seven, and part one featured a face some of you might be a little familiar with, a certain Mr Adam Baldwin. As for the two Angel episodes ... well, i guess i don't really need to mention how fantastic they are around here.

Based purely on which episode has caused me to want to find the tape and rewatch it the most often, probably closing in on twenty or so times by now, it has to be Not Fade Away. There is just something unique about what they did with that 42 minutes of television that i think will be hard to beat.

Technopagan | March 27, 05:24 CET

Best website was eFanzines. I did check it out and it's a nice site. Kinda' wish WHEDONesque was in the credits.

Madhatter | March 27, 05:43 CET

NFA most def gets my vote. I love the heart wrenching ones too, plus that ending just made me scream for 20 mins!

nixygirl | March 27, 07:40 CET

electricspacegirl, you named all my favorite episodes as well. All that vicarious pain is like a drug.

I don't think we're too disturbed though. It's just catharsis, that cleansing outpouring of emotion that happens when you witness the suffering of others (preferably in art). Part of what unites us, makes us human.

Back on the Hugos, I'm way too subjective to make an informed decision. I don't think Lost would have a chance, haven't seen the other non-Angel episodes, but I just can't imagine TV better than NFA.

Biff Turkle | March 27, 07:53 CET

I've seen all of the episodes nominated, and NFA still stands out in my mind as the best episode among them. I can watch that episode over and over again and not get tired of it, whereas I can't do that with the others (except for "Smile Time," and given a choice between spending eternity watching that or NFA, I would choose the latter.) I do acknowledge that the other shows are great, too, but some of them took "work" to watch, whereas NFA had me totally engrossed from beginning to end.

Nebula1400 | March 27, 08:30 CET

I loved "Smile Time" and "Not Fade Away" but i have to give some love for "You're Welcome" and "A Hole in the World" with the later being one of my favorite episodes in the 'verse. "Becoming part 2" still number one though.

rayne&ripper | March 27, 10:11 CET

I actually had an immense sense of closure after NFA, although that may be due to 1) I knew what was coming, and 2) virtually every character that made invest in the show had been eliminated. Powerfully eliminated, you understand, their deaths used to good effect to make a stellar season, but in the end I just didn't have much interest left in seeing another season without Cordelia, Fred, Wesley, Lorne and quite possibly Gunn. Maybe I lack the requisite masochism to want to keep watching after the ensemble has been so thoroughly butchered. Whatever the reason, I felt the show had really ended in NFA, and the rest was just loose ends that might have been spun out into a season.

Ijn terms of dramatic vs comic episodes: I love the comic stand-alones. Thinking back over BtVS and AtS, none of the finales make it into my top ten list. In Firefly I would pick Jaynestown and Our Mrs. Reynalds over The Message in a heartbeat. Best of course is a mixture of comedy and drama that reveals something about the characters, which Joss does so well. But I was never that enamored with the plots, and felt that the weakest seasons (Angel 4, anyone?) were those where the show focused too much on the plot, trying for elaborate soap-opera twists that in retrospect didn't make much sense. I could go on for quite a while about why I think plots in AtS and BtVS are best kept simple and workmanlike, but, well, that would require going on for quite a while.

Andarcel | March 27, 10:26 CET

Congratulations to Joss & Co. for the nomination of both episodes -- both are outstanding examples of Whedonverse TV at its best!

While I have crazy love for "Smile Time" (and just found out minutes ago my long-ago-ordered Puppet Angel has arrived and is being held in care by a friend), I would have to follow the general consensus by voting for NFA. It was a tremendously fitting, beautifully executed, intense and provocative finish to an extraordinary show that left me crying, laughing and contemplating its many intricate layers for days weeks afterward.

It's an honor just to be recognized, as they say.... Still, I hope for a Hugo win to help solidify Angel's status as a series worthy of honor (long overdue) outside Buffy's long shadow. This award matters more than most because our vampire heroes are being counted among a field of genre faves dear to geek hearts everywhere. Go, Angel, go! More than a year later and still not fading away!

Wiseblood | March 27, 12:31 CET

This is great news. I loved NOT FADE AWAY.

Gottarhyme | March 27, 15:07 CET

I'll be anxious to hear results. My vote would be for NFA of course, but honestly I haven't seen the other shows. Haven't watched Lost yet but want to, and I have enjoyed SG1 and BSG alot. However, the difference between those shows and Angel is I don't mind if I miss them.

WhoIsOmega? | March 27, 18:57 CET

I haven't seen all the nominees however as posted earlier in this thread I agree that I can't imagine any TV being better than Not Fade Away.

I love Smile Time because the episode was really a risk, turning Angel into a puppet could have been really dumb, and amazingly they pulled it off and the episode turned out great; Gunn slicing the puppet dog's head off, and puppet Angel vamping , all great stuff. But it misses the emotional impact of NFA.

NFA was a wonderful ending for the series, a great episode that like many of you here, I have watched many times. I hope Angel's NFA gets the recognition by receiving this award.

My personal favorite Firefly - Objects in Space

Passion | March 28, 03:36 CET

My personal favorite Firefly - Objects in Space

No way, gotta go with Out of Gas.

brownishcoat | March 28, 23:31 CET

On board there brownishcoat. Out of Gas was absolutely phenomenal television. I knew before that ep that Tim Minear was worthy of the same respect as Joss, but after that episode, I *knew* it, if that makes sense.

Angela | March 29, 00:40 CET

Yes, Angela, it really does. My daughter now uses it as currency. "If you say yes to this, we can watch 'Out of Gas'…"

brownishcoat | March 29, 00:50 CET