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March 30 2005

"Spike would be different as a subject" says Joss Whedon. He tells TV Guide's Mike Ausiello "I don't want to try to recapture the essence of something that I've already done. I want to put a new spin on it."

Whatever Joss does, I will be happy with it! You da man Joss!
I agree that Spike's next story should be new and fresh. Reading that from Joss really excites me. It sounds like he knows exactly where Spike is headed. I want to see this. I never thought it would happen, but Spike is my new obsession. Yes, I've even found a little bit of the Spuffy in me. Just a little bit. Ok, maybe quite a lot. Hell, I just want Buffy and Spike to meet in Rome, for him to Shanshu so they can settle down with their pet dragon and eat marshmallows while watching reruns of Knight Rider on cable. That would be sweet.

I'm curious about what angle they are going to approach him from. I got the impression that Joss didn't want to dwell on Spike's backstory, but I do want to know when we get to learn more about "that one time" with Angel. I am guessing my wish for a soft-core Spangel movie will never become a reality.

Spike is one of the richest characters in the verse, in terms of growth and development. I want to see him change and grow even more. I don't want the same Spike that we saw in Btvs 7, or in Ats 5. IMO, this is good news.

Joss is being more vocal about bringing back a Buffyverse character. Which means he's interested in this. We all need to start a campaign, like right now. Who are the most important people to contact to make this happen?

I need more Joss. It's been way too long and I miss him.


Out of curiosity, when was the last time Joss talked about having ideas about post-NFA movies. When was the last time he showed specific interest with hints of plot and everything? Am I just imagining that this is promising?

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-03-30 11:10 ]
"I am guessing my wish for a soft-core Spangel movie will never become a reality"

Never give up hope! One day it may happen!
Okay, now all we need is for some Exec to type of some ridiculous script for Spike movie/series to Joss, so that he'll take it back and rewrite the whole thing and inevitably get drawn into the whole project!

What? It worked for Wonder Woman, it could work for Spike. :)
I'd like to see Giles in a Raiders of the Lost Ark type scenario, complete with 'Young Rupert'. Unfortunately, River Phoenix is no longer with us to play the younger Giles. But I'm sure Orlando Bloom would please the young 'uns among us.
Do I dare get my hopes up after all the disappointments of the last year? We seem to have all the major players at least considering the possibilities for a Spike-centered return to the 'verse. Now can we get beyond the dropping of hints in TV Guide and get on to some signatures on contracts? Pleeeeeez?
During season six and also part of season seven I always thought he had a vision about where Spike should go as a character. Of course buffyverse continuation, actors, ratings and all that kind of stuff are such a big intereference that Joss can't think far enough into the future, but I still hope he indeed had that vision.
See, what have i been saying for just this side of forever? Well, since Angel was cancelled last year anyway!

Spike is the future! He has always been the one character that was destined for the third lead role. Even those that don't particularly like him can't deny he has a presence, and hopefully even they will give this a chance if it happens. To be fair i'm way too biased here as he was always my number one character from the slayerverse. I should add that this is unusual because my favourite characters from television shows are normal chosen by my hormones and therefore are usually female and incredibly hot so the fact that Spike came out ahead in series that starred Sarah, Alyson, Emma, Charisma, Amy, Mercedes, Amber and Michelle should say a lot about how much i think of Spike. The guy is pure excellence!

So, having now made by bias all the more evident, i can go on to say that, all that aside, i do think this is the right way to go. Spike is easily the third most popular character to come out of Buffy or Angel. You only need look at the merchandising to see that. How many Willow, Giles, Gunn or Wesley calendars or life size cardboard stand up figures do you see on sale? If there is going to be a project done that could revive the slayerverse and lead on to a regular show, and if Sarah and David aren't available, it needs to be Spike.

This comment from Joss has really made my day. Whilst it still doesn't guarantee that this will happen it makes it all the more evident that Joss really wants it to and that he has ideas about how it should go ahead. With James already onboard we have half the battle done. Now the clearly more difficult part of getting a network or cable channel involved begins, and that is where we need to focus attentions ourselves, because Joss can only do so much on his own.
electricspacegirl, I would recommend e-mailing The WB network about getting a Spike movie in the works.

According to Ausiello's last column, David Janollari has been kicking the idea around though no decision has been made. I would imagination a flood of e-mails on this topic could sway him to our favor. I also hope that this project is showing signs of life.
I don't think a man in the 'verse could challenge Wesley's place in my heart. But you know, my heart has room for more than one sexy man.

Spike has this intense, theatrical way about him. ("What the bleeding hell is wrong with you bloody women!") His emotions are so palpable. I love the scenes where he breaks down, and when he feels passion, I can feel it too (basically, his sex scenes turn me on, ahem). Also, he's probably one of my favorites with the comedy.

So what now? Hey, Joss, if you're reading this, is there anything the fans can do to get this going? Let us know, please.


ETA: Ok, WB Email campaign. Check. I'll write my email and encourage others to do the same (in other words, it's spamming time).

Oh, another thing. The reason why Joss' statements excite me so much is because this is the first time since the cancellation of Angel that he's talked about wanting to go back to the Buffyverse. I was under the impression that he was done. I'm glad I was wrong.
"Spike is the future! He has always been the one character that was destined for the third lead role"

Warlock, i believe we must have a big ass bitch fight over this! Claws out! The third lead character should be my Faith! Or what about Giles! Spike is great, but i would prefer one of these two.....well mostly the first one but...

That said, i would SO watch a Spike TV series or movie, buy the posters and merchandising and go on mini Spike rally's round my hometown. I agree it would be fantastic especially with Amy Acker as Illyria

So Im gonna get emailing!
Ooooh. Illyria. Hey, Joss, please include Illyria! And flashbacks to Wesley. Or Illyria could have dreams about him. Sexy dreams. I can't be the only one who wanted Wesley and Blue Thunder to get it on.
electricspacegirl, i think it would have totally destroyed the remembrance of the relationship that him and Fred had....so yeah i think it would have been great if they'd gotten it on! It would have been a great arc for Wesely in Season Six

Except, damn you WB! There is no Wesley/Illyria sex because you cancelled the show!
Hold me, people. I'm starting to believe this might actually happen.
Apocalypse, i have to admit that a Faith series/telemovie comes a very close second for me, maybe equal with Illyria and with Willow just behind. In fact i'm ashamed of myself for missing Eliza out of the above list of girls that, by all rights, should be ahead of my Spike obsession.

The perfect way to go would be to feature all four of the above characters as far as i'm concerned. Spike and Willow had a very cool relationship dating right back to The Iniative which continued to shine through in episodes like Bargaining. She was one of the only Scoobies that you honestly felt had accepted Spike as a member of the gang and not just someone that they couldn't get rid of. It would be good to see them develop further as friends.

The Illyria and Faith relationships with Spike are equally interesting and worthy of further development. Not to mention the fact that any one of these four could hold a regular show of their own and this Spike telemovie (or better yet, series of telemovies to be collected in a DVD boxset) could be a great stepping stone to having one of them branch off into a proper show.

Gotta keep pushing for that, now more than ever.
It's good to hear from the man himself that he is actually interested in doing a Spike movie. Hope springs eternal.
I'm holding ya twiggy!!!! I'm getting me some mighty huge ripples of excitment!
Spike is the future! He has always been the one character that was destined for the third lead role.

I totally agree with this Warlock. It's not that I don't like Faith, Giles or any of the other characters mentioned, but to me it seems Spike is the clear choice for a lead role, in this case a movie.

At one time around season 6 or 7 of Buffy I saw a poll for favorite Buffy character - I remember Spike receiving as many votes as (and possibly a bit more than) Buffy.
"In fact i'm ashamed of myself for missing Eliza out of the above list of girls"

And so you should be! :)
Caroline, I would have NO problem with Orlando Bloom playing the younger Rupert. Umm Salty goodness! Even if I am much closer to Tony Head's age than Bloom's!
But a Spike movie. sigh.
I have to remember however that this is not Joss continually bringing up the subject or the WB, others are, particulally Ausiello. This doesn't mean it is close to a reality. Just a lot of wishful thinking.
Ha, sometimes I am not a stupid as I think. I allways figured that a Spike project (if ever done) would be different in the way that Angel and Buffy are significantly different.

It sounds great that Joss is up for it. For a while there it sounded as if that was not the case.

So, I guess all the world needs is that Janollari wakes up, righ?
(.....or maybe he is busy watching Blue Collar TV and The Mountain?)
Lioness, the one thing i have come to realise about Joss is he doesn't say anything unless he has a very good idea that it could happen. He didn't lead us on about the chances of Angel coming back for a sixth season, as grateful as i'm sure he was for what we tried i don't ever remember him saying he thought it was likely to happen. He knew the score and didn't make any misleading comments to the contrary. I feel that he wouldn't be any different with this Spike project. Every comment he makes leads me to believe that, whilst not certain, it is a strong possibility

Admittedly there is still a little uncertainty and hedging of bets going on here but at the end of the day i think we can be optimistic that this is going a little beyond wishful thinking.

And as for Janollari and the WB, my opinion there hasn't changed. I don't trust them, to be quite honest. That network is just shortsighted enough to miss this golden opportunity to get a large audience back, not just for this telemovie, but for other shows they broadcast as well. Hit them with e-mails by all means, it certainly can't hurt, but don't put all your Ghora eggs in one basket. HBO, Sci Fi and other channels might be convinced to give this a go if there is enough interest shown so they need to be contacted as well.
It's good talk, lets hope it's actually greenlit, so we can celebrate!
A few emails? I can handle that. Haven't done much since the Angel cancellation but those pages are still bookmarked. And I agree Warlock, contact a few others too. Can't hurt. I for one, would be very pleased to see anything Joss on Sci Fi. His works would breathe fresh life into the network (of course it has some great shows already) but technically his work is in the scifi genre, as it includes horror and comedy and fantasy. It's also not so far from the type of programming that makes Sci Fi great! As in Taken, heavy on the drama. A lot of hardcore Sci Fi fans were so turned off by MadMadHouse and maybe GhostHunters, because they feel those shows strayed too far into the reality thing. Can't disagree too much, at least about MadMadHouse. Don't see how they could complain about Whedon's work. Which includes spaceships as well as vamps. Hey, Fray would go over GREAT on SciFi!!!!!!
I was just thinking earlier today it'd be interesting to see a Spike show featuring Illyria and Wesley's ghost as supporting characters. I know it might smack a bit of Spike's reintroduction on Angel, but that was only a temporary status and ultimately part of Wolfram & Heart's "big plan." Wesley could be dead-dead-DEAD and play into all of the grim tidings that come with his new status.

Of course, in my PERFECT series they'd be joined by a sarcastic, cynically bitter Xander, who's left the Buffy force and is just trying to make a normal life for himself, only to get pulled back into the craziness yet again. He'd be the Han Solo/Bruce Campbell character who's just comedically miserable about everything going on around him.
Farscape fans managed to get an entire mini-series on Sci Fi due to their persistance. Surely the Buffyverse has as many fans if not more, we just need to mobilize and start working toward a goal. I know for some, Spike isn't the one they want to see. We all have our favorites. However, keep in mind, that getting a Spike movie could put us one step closer to getting a new series or at least a series of telemovies based around several different characters. I would love to see Giles, Willow, Faith, Illyria/Fred, Wesley ... just to name a few. Don't think that just because fans are rallying around Spike right now that he's the only one we want to see. He just seems to be the one at the moment that has the best chance of opening the door to more of the 'verse.
Totally agree that all fans, no matter what their ship or who their favourite character is should seize the chance of *any* Jossverse movies , if one is a success there will be more, and conceivably enough interest could be raised to get the big screen movie that DB seems to have set his heart on. ( Although it sort of sounds as if that's not where Joss' heart lies right now)

Of course Spike has always been my first choice for a film but I'd love to see the Giles, Faith , Xander , Illyria movies and if a way can be found to ressurect Wes I'd be over the moon . In fact, at this point I'd even support a ressurection of Slayerette Molly... excruciating accent and all .

But Joss is sounding more and more as if this Spike film is a possibility and I'm finally allowing myself to hope.

[ edited by debw on 2005-03-30 19:00 ]
In my ideal world,
1.)not only does this happen - remember Joss said not so long ago that he had enough directors, writers, actors etc that he wouldn't have to be the showrunner - after all, Marti Noxon's free now (potential showrunner?). Writers - where's Doug Petrie, Ben Edlund, Sarah Craft and Elizabeth Fain and all those many other great talents? Actors - JM is definitely in, AD, AH, ED all seem to be available. It is just possible!

2.) but also that WB get nothing out of this. There has to be at least one othe channel that sees the value of this!
Hmm, I am actually wondering if Angel is that popular. He got a lot of screentime and plotlines and therefore a lot of attention. A strong arcline doesn't equate an interesting character by definition. It just means that the character was lucky enough to get the arcline. I always thought that the sidekicks were more interesting.

I really hope Xander would join Spike in the movie. He might not be the star on his own right, but he's still the best supporting character of the series. Especially for Spike.
God...am I starting to feel the vibes from all this talk? Can I actually start to hope again? I am trying to remain calm , but my heart is pounding. I think I am going to tell Ausiello I love him again. Please...lets all tell him we love him.
Cards, emails, first born sons, I'll do whatever it takes....
Good Lord...is my Spike obsession showing or what?????
I think Angel's kinda cool :-)
It sounds awesome! - but in the meantime, the site has crashed (too many hopeful fans?). Does anyone have the text for us unlucky late comers?
It certainly seems like the talk is getting more positive, which makes me happy.
Even if it is mostly Ausiello raising the subject with all and sundry it keeps the idea alive and anyway, let us not underestimate the power of one man *cough with a widely read and increasingly influential column *cough. We know that Joss has not been the blockage on this so Ausiello's harrassing of the TV execs on his and our behalf has, as has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread, been very valuable.
I would like to see a Giles-series though, so am keeping my fingers crossed for something to happen with Ripper...
I can get to the site just fine, although I wouldn't be surprised if the column is being inundated with hits!
Actually, I would not contact the WB, they cannot afford to support a Spike tv movie, heck look at the shows on their network they can barely afford real actors anymore.

If you want this movie made go to a place where 1) it has been done before for another canceled series and 2) where Angel is a strong ratings contender.

Yep I'm talking about TNT, they brought back 'The Pretender', after it was cancelled from NBC for 2 tv movies. Angel currently airs on the network and seems to be strong in the ratings that TNT is happy with it. It is the ideal place for a Spike movie, what with all the new anti-this and that on the networks now, no one wants a white washed verse piece on the television networks. Best to take it to cable where they still have some freedom (for now) to push the limits of SVL and then let Spike loose. So any campaign should be directed at them, they have the money to spend and they have a budget for tv movies and mini-series already set. They are the perfect choice to take the idea of a Spike movie or even mini-series to the next level.
Joss still has to speak to people at Fox though, his contract is still with them.
Even if it's mainly Ausiello-generated, the "chatter" on a Spike movie is definitely increasing. Any PR folks out there who'd like to comment on this? (Chris in Virginia, perhaps?) It all spells hope to me but it'd be nice to hear a professional's take.

Either way, I think Ausiello should get a medal. Of all the Buffyverse entertainment media supporters (Roush, Kristin, etc.), Ausiello stands out as the most continuingly vocal. I think Joss fans should continue to bombard Ausiello with emailed Spike movie questions to keep the fires a-cookin'. It wouldn't hurt to do the same with Kristin and Roush.
I think Fox will do it if there's a network willing to air it, after all, its Fox who stands to gain the most money. The Buffyverse has been very profitable for them.

BTW, does anyone else here realize that TV Guide is owned by News Corp, which owns FOX? That's right, TV Guide and Fox are both under the same parent company, which I guess makes them family. I'm not saying Fox themselves are pushing this via Ausiello, but it is an interesting coincidence.
RavenU, I like the idea of TNT. Shoot, I'll take PBS, but the WB seems to be the most likely choice.

DarqueGuy, I like the idea of Xander finally given a normal, healthy life...then he runs into Spike and says,"Sweet moogali, boogali...not you!". Not sure if Xander ever said that, but it sounds like him.

Throw in some Xander, Faith, Illyria, and ghost? Wesley and I will personally hunt Ausiello down and kiss his feet (just for you, Kathy). On a side note I bet Faith and Illyria could have some really great chemestry. Faith would constantly be jealous of Illyria's power. I can see it now...Faith rolls her eyes after Illyria single handedly slays a demon and she says, "that didn't seem so hard, blah, blah, blah", or something way better written by Doug Petrie himself (he really enjoyed writing for Faith).

OK, Joss...what do we do? Email WB? SciFi? HBO? TNT?
I'd have to agree with RavenU in that TNT would be an excellent place to focus our efforts. At this point however i wouldn't suggest that we choose not to email anywhere, the WB included. The truth is that we can't afford to be picky. They may not be able to afford a Spike movie but it doesn't hurt to keep reminding them what it was that helped create their current circumstances. :)

Given a perfect world i would obviously choose to keep the WB away from anything Joss related but if i had to choose between seeing Spike return on the WB or not seeing anything happen at all, well, i think we all would choose the former, given no other options.

And i do think it would be a good thing to let Ausiello know how grateful we are for his efforts. Even if this comes to nothing, at least the guy tried.
I know the e-mail campaigns to the WB had no effect with 'Angel' in the past, but please try to keep a positive note if you decide to e-mail about this topic. I completely understand the bitterness, trust me, you're preaching to the choir here. Many in this room know how vocal I've been on that very subject. But, with the news as of late, I'm sensing an air of change on how the WB is looking at this matter and we should take advantage of that. Let's look at some facts:

The WB would be the most logical network to market this movie. First, they said they were interested in producing AtS movies from the beginning and people are holding them to that statement. Since the cancellation of Angel, has anyone read a single Janollari interview where this subject didn't come up? I didn't think so. It's not going away.

Second, the WB is in last place in ratings among the networks and that isn't pretty for the stockholders. I would like to contribute this to the cancellation of Angel, but I'm thinking the poor choice of new shows this past season was the main reason. To the point, AtS had a solid 4 million viewers and those kind of numbers would make Janollari smile at this point.

OK, enough..... Hold it! Did I just defend the WB?! Guess the head-on collision with that tractor-trailer this morning did some drain bramage. Give me a few hours, I'll be OK ;)
Well before y'all go emailing networks, it might be worth actually reaching out to the Buffyverse fandom as a whole. Cause I lurk on a lot of Buffyverse sites/forums/posting boards (ones that were a bedrock of support for the Keep Angel on the air campaign) and there's not a great deal of talk about a Spike spin off if at all.

Maybe because they don't know about what Joss has been saying or more likely I reckon it's because they're not actually that bothered about a Spike spinoff. You're going to have to reach out to the non Spike fans if you want a strong response to what Joss has said.
Thanks Harmalicious....you kiss Mike's feet and I'll have his love child....maybe that will get us more brownie points. At any rate...all the press this Spike movie generates could pay off big time. If the WB DOES decide to do this they could certainly be redeemed in a lot of viewers eyes, and yeah....4 million Happy Viewers is something they haven't seen in a long time. TNT could stand to profit too. If FOX wakes up and realizes all the DVD revenue to be had...they might get on the bandwagon as well...so it's all good.
As for the Spike haters...I just wish they would see that this could be just the beginning, and that other shows or movies could spring from this. But facts is facts folks....Spike does indeed have the stuff it takes to keep us interested....at least I think he does.
I couldn't agree more with what Simon just said. Debw summed it up very nicely in her post further up. It would be very shortsighted of anyone to not get behind this just because they don't like Spike especially. Whether you do or you don't it doesn't change the fact that if the slayerverse is going to continue it needs a kick start and this might be the best chance of that happening. If a Spike movie does well then there is immediately a lot more chance of an Illyria project going ahead, or a Willow, or Faith, and so on.

It won't do any of us any good to turn this into a contest for who's favourite character should be the focus of the telemovie. The only one currently being discussed is Spike and therefore if you really want your particular favourite to return then making this a success is going to be essential.

I just joined up at Support Spike but i'm not currently a member of any of the other big Buffy forums. If anyone else here is then maybe you could start spreading the news and generating a little momentum at those sites too?
Please include Illyria! Amy Acker is so cute I want her to go on talk shows to promote the movie.
Well, I can kind of see how people who dislike Spike wouldn't support a project just focusing on him. But then again, it's a good thing just to get ANYthing Joss related back on tv. I mean, I might not watch a telemovie just about Dawn or Xander, but I'd certainly support it coming about, because it means something bigger than just the single project. It'd be a huge shot in the arm for the 'verse as a whole.

But unfortunately, I'd say that most of the people who dislike Spike actually HATE him. I know some are just indifferent about him, but there is a small group of haters who might actually work against something like this. I hope people wouldn't be so petty, but you never know.

I love the fact that there is more chatter, but I'm to scared to get hopeful.
Why would the WB not afford a Spike movie?? Sure most of their current shows are not too swift and most Angel/Byffy-verse fans have very bad feelings towards them...but does anything indicate that they have a bad financial situation??
Seems to me that the obvious solution to Marsters's concerns about growing older and no longer appearing immortal is this: he Shanshued after winning the battle at the end of Not Fade Away. Next appearance, he's mortal, human, and grown a bit ragged from spending his time since then in the Powers That Be Witness/Champion Protection Program, on the run from the Senior Partners of Wolfram & Hart. Problem solved. The comedown would give his massive ego a big challenge to deal with as he tries to learn how to deal with being Just Another Guy who can't rely on vamp powers in his Endless, Fruitless Quest to Impress Buffy. Angel would hate and be jealous of Spike for having gotten the Shanshu, and Spike would hate and be jealous of Angel for still having his vamp powers. Sounds like plenty of character conflict material to work with...

Not that this isn't anything that Joss hasn't already thought of and dismissed in favor of something less obvious, of course.
I can kind of see how people who dislike Spike wouldn't support a project just focusing on him.

The thing is, I can't imagine a Spike movie being just about Spike. Buffy wasn't just about Buffy. Angel wasn't just about Angel. Why do people suddenly seem to think Joss would make something that was only about the title character when he hasn't done that in the past? When I say I want a Spike movie, I fully expect there to be other interesting characters hopefully including some from the Buffy and Angel shows.

Simon, I certainly agree that we need to reach out to the fandom. Apparently we frequent different Buffyverse sites because the ones I frequent (either as a regular poster or a lurker) are talking about telemovies and spin-offs - either Spike specifically or in general. So Simon, bring it up on those boards will ya? :)
Big agreement with Simon, Madhatter, Rogue Slayer, DebW, Warlock, etc. Now is not the time for character wars. Spike is obviously the best bet for a BuffyAngelverse reboot. The chatter is about Spike, period. I'd love other characters to get their own movies and/or be involved with a Spike movie but if wishes were horses....

Based on many excellent posts above, I'd say that now is the time for a concerted campaign on three fronts: (1) spreading the word amongst the fans and convincing more Whedonversers to actively support a Spike project, (2) bombarding Fox and the WB, etc. with requests, and (3) continuing (very) active fan engagement with online tv gurus like Ausiello, Roush and Kristin.

It is indeed potentially auspicious that Marti is now free (although sad for Marti). All the other writers mentioned above would be fantastic, too. I wonder if any contribution would be possible from Espenson, Fury, Goddard, DeKnight and the others who've been snapped up by JJ Abrams and in Jane's case, Tim Minear. I'm assuming Minear is so busy with The Inside that this wouldn't interest him. But boy would Minear be fabulous. He was a crucial part of why AtS was so great. Ditto Greenwalt. What's Greenwalt up to these days?

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Must reign in the soaring hope.
Serapion - Your senario is very interesting!

killinj - I agree I am sure that a Spike project would involve other characters from Buffy/Ange-verse. Just think of the Angel Season 5 episode "Harm's Way". Angel and even the regular "Team Angel" guys & gals were pretty much reduced to supporting cast.

phlebotinin Simon, Madhatter, Rogue Slayer, DebW, Warlock, etc, etc. This is no time for dissagreement.
Of the various people we contact...what about James Masters agent or who ever represents him. Shouldn't they be encouraged to try and land a Spike deal???? Heck, we are in one way doing their job, right?? (Not that I mind... :-) )
James Marsters has already said he's willing to reprise the role of Spike. It's generally up to the producer to land the deal, not the people who might star in the project. So, JM has already done his part by letting the powers that be know he's willing. We need to get a network open to talking to Joss about the project.

Just think of the Angel Season 5 episode "Harm's Way". Angel and even the regular "Team Angel" guys & gals were pretty much reduced to supporting cast.

So? A supporting character in one episode of a tv series got an hour focusing on her out of 22 hours of programming. Over the course of the series, everyone got their time in the spotlight. Picking out an episode from out of an series like that doesn't seem to be a fair comparison to me. It seems to me a telemovie would be more similar to the series with a condensed story arc, such that the title character gets the most screen time, but there are good and interesting subplots for the supporting cast.

Edited to add: I suspect fans will talk to James about the telemovie in Houston this weekend.

[ edited by killinj on 2005-03-30 21:13 ]
It would be a real shame if the chance to get anything more of the 'verse on the airwaves were spoiled by character wars among fans. That would be so shortsighted.

And since Joss prefers ensemble casts, and, as he brought Cordy, Wesley, Harmony, and Spike over to Angel, he undoubtedly would bring in some of the characters from the other series if the actors were available. These would undoubtedly be supplemented by new faces. The Spike character depends so much on his relationships with other characters, it would be ludicrous to try to have him somehow go it alone. It would no longer be Spike. But, since Buffy and Angel, the characters with which he has most defined himself, out of the picture, the next logical choice would be Illyria (or Dru). And since we know that Joss had more plans for Fred/Illyria for s6, some of those plans may still be adaptable to a Spike-centered project. (Of course, my mind tends to wander to a series as opposed to a TV-movie, so their relationship -- or any relationship -- might be developed, but I'll accept any tidbit.)
Rogue Slayer, glad you're back. Missed your comments.
I'm just excited that Joss seems to truly be enthused about a Spike movie, and we know that James is up for it.

I naturally assumed that any movie would include Buffy and/or Angel alum. I say bring back Clem as Spike's sidekick or even Andrew. Illyria and Faith are also possibilities for the ensemble.
Well, for me a Spike show wont be something fresh. For me, hes done since Chosen, hes been developed a lot, give another character this chance (like Illyria).

Anyways, if Joss wants a Spike show, i will support because i trust in him, i know hes got something to tell.

[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2005-03-30 21:45 ]
The thing is, I can't imagine a Spike movie being just about Spike.

Hopefully, it wouldn't. But I just wonder how hard(or easy) it would be to get a great cast together for a Spike-centric telemovie. (Because even the comments from Joss seem to imply this would be a 'Spike' project) I mean, I'd love to have Amy Acker, Tony Head, Alyson Hannigan, for the project(I say them, because obviously SMG and DB are not going to do it). But I wonder if all their schedules would work out nicely for such a project. I'd rather wait a bit for a good 'supporting' cast than just throw in Clem and a potential or something(not that I have anything against Clem, he'd just not be my first choice).

Although on the topic of potentials, I wouldn't mind seeing Dana again. I know Joss had plans for her in season 6, but alas...

Ah well, I'm sure if it comes to be, Joss will surprise and amaze us all.

Rogue Slayer, glad you're back. Missed your comments.

Thanks! Good to be back. And almost in one piece! :~)
killinj _ I was only using one episode to illustrate that we Mutan Enemy projects does not only focus on one single character. Sure a TV movie is not a show with 22 episodes but I am confident that if we got to see a Spike movie other characters from angel or Buffy would most likely get some screen time.
...or maybe I am just wrong.
This is great news. Any program produced by Whedon would be met with the dance of joy.

Personally I love the character of Spike, but would be just as happy to see any of the other regulars/supporting cast. To not support the project on the grounds that 'spuffy annoyed you' or whatever is just plain stupid.

I just want to see some Joss Whedon TV. It has been too long.
Ok, I guess I didn't understand what you were trying to say.
I would love to see another Joss Whedon project on the T.V again and the "new spin" part of the quote thrills me no end. I adore the rich character of Spike - Top of my wish list for other cast members would be : Illyria, Dana, Gunn, Xander and Drogyn, if he weren't dead !
Ok, I don't have time to read the entire thread right now, but I wanted to ask if anyone can provide me email addresses. TV/Cable networks, Producers, tv journalists, etc. I'm going to start my own little campaign.

Thanks.
If you're reading Joss, please post and give us some advice on the most effective tactic we fans can do.
This is really starting to look solid around the edges. Shiny! effulgent even.
There's a list in the files section of Support Spike's yahoo group and on Whedonverse Multimedia Project's site in the Gallery. I'm sure other sites have targets posted as well. There's also this great resource that can provide you with all the information you could possibly want called the Internet. It's really kewl! More people who want information should try it! ;)
Thanks killinj. I also wanted to ask, in an off topic sort of way, if I wanted to send Joss a thank you note for all his hard work, where would i send it? I'm talking a written letter and not email. He probably gets tons of that and will never read it, but you never know.
Oh god I do hope that all this comes to pass.

The way to go in my eyes is to pick up from 'Not Fade Away' and see a fed up Shanshued Spike having to come to terms with being forced to 'live Angels dream' so to speak. Finding himself human and with all the frailties that come with it.

Spike would just hate not being a vampire anymore, and Joss did always delight in giving his creations what they want the least. This would also help the whole 'aging thing' when it come sto James.

All in all, yeah I think it could really work.
Spike would probably be among my last choices for a lead, but a Spike movie would be awesome nonetheless.
Why is the WB out of the running, because their parent company Time-Warner is tightening the belt since the WB has cost them a profit in the last few years. The WB has reported earnings losses in the double-digits the last 2 years, which takes away from the profit created by sister companies like TNT which has shown a profit for the past couple of years. Do you ever wonder why all the high concept series slated for this year (ie Dark Shadows, Lost In Space, Global Frequency) were dropped and how come the WB seem to have no backups for it's failed series like the Mountain. It's because they have no money in the budget, so if they cannot afford to be able to fill their current line-up, how do you expect them to be able to afford to pay for a tv movie of a tv show they canceled. That's why the WB is not really a viable option for a Spike movie, however, TNT is primed for it. How do you think the Pretender got a movie on the air there, the fans wrote them.
Rogue Slayer, that's the point. I am not a huge Spike fan, but I would *love* to see a Spike movie, because I would love to see anything Buffyverse related. And with the reality bull these days, every support is welcome.
After reading what Simon wrote earlier in the thread about how certain other forums have not been jumping on the Spike telemovie bandwagon i decided to have a quick look around some of them myself. Whilst i found some that were spreading the word there are quite a few others that don't seem to have heard anything about this, or if they have then nothing has been reported on their boards.

Worst still, there are a number of forums (i won't name names out of respect for the webmasters who may or may not be responsible for the comments) who have indeed turned this into a "i can't stand Spike" issue and have done nothing but moan that they would dare to continue things from the end of Not Fade Away, because in their opinion that was the perfect end and the gang died heroic deaths in the alley. Newsflash, only Joss decides when the end comes and what happened in that alley that night and he clearly doesn't think Spike died. If Joss had ever clearly stated that he wished for the story to end there then fine, i would have been sad but accepted that it was his decision. Why do some people think that their personal fanfics are more accurate and superior to the storyline chosen by the creator of the damn shows!

Rant over!

Sorry about that but i have to admit some of what i've been reading has annoyed me a little. All i know is that, regardless of who was to be the focus of this telemovie, even if the focus was to be a whole new set of characters in fact, i would be there to support it. I was never the biggest fan of Gunn, i mean i liked the character and all but he is far from being my favourite, still i would back a Gunn telemovie one hundred percent if that was what was on offer. People really need to stop being so selfish and shortsighted and get behind this Spike project because if this doesn't happen then we really will be seeing the end of the slayerverse, in my opinion at least. Possibly for good.

I'm just glad that everyone around here is much more open minded and level headed with this, looking at the bigger picture rather than limiting their thoughts to "Spike sucks, i want Angel back!". Whedonesque is one of the few really respected Joss fan sites and so it is places like this that will be focused upon, rather than some of the less known (and frankly less mature) forums i have had the dubious pleasure of checking out tonight.
Amen Warlock. The Spike haters just refuse to see the big picture. SMG and DB have expressed very little desire to reprise these roles...so get over it people. Make the movies and continue the Verse with the characters and actors who are willing to do so. Spike will be different. HE IS NOTHING LIKE ANGEL. Squabbling like spoiled children will get us nowhere. If there is a chance of continuing these stories, it looks like they go through Spike, and I for one am happy to see where it goes....
Joss' work is important to our culture. I don't care what he wants to put on screen, what size screen he wants to put it on, or if he wants to produce a sockpuppet play about cheese. I believe Joss' work will always make a statement about the world we live in, challenge our ideas, and change the way we view society, men and women, and even ourselves. He will inspire us and make us laugh and tantalize us with new wonderful stories with endless layers of subtext. So it's all freakin good in my book.

He knows what to do. I trust in Joss, because Joss rules us all.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-03-31 02:51 ]
There are always going to be naysayers and negative comments no matter what Joss came up with for a project about the 'verse. So just let them sit and stew. Place your focus on recruiting fans who are more open-minded and that may not be as aware of what's going on to join the campaign.
I know there a a few sites where those who are anit-Spike are almost regretably vocal. However, I think, somehow, if everyone were counted those anti folk would not turn out to be that many, even under 100. One name per person please. I say that because on one fairly sad little site there is, fairly obviously, one person pretending to be at least five people. (oh the humanity) I could be wrong, but no one should be ashamed to stand up and be counted: My name is Horace VanDerGelder and I hate Spike enough to send e.mails to Warner Bros. On second thought...
Thing is, though, that whatever energy Joss puts into a Spike movie is energy he won't be spending on other projects. I'm not sure I'd rather have the Spike movie than whatever else might bubble out of his brain. If he does take up the Spike project, I'm all for rallying support for it, but I'm not starting a campaign before then. Frankly, I still cherish the hope of his return to the small screen. One outstanding Whedon movie every two years seems a poor substitute for a very good Whedon movie every three weeks or so.
Andarcel. I just think it should be Joss' decision. If he wants to do Spike, I mean, ahem, make a film about him, we should support him. But then again, I don't hate Spike. I don't hate any Buffyverse character. I dislike a few minor ones *cough*Glory*cough* but if Joss thought a Glory movie would be interesting and have something to say, I'd back him up. I'd just hope the acting style was just a little bit different.
Joss said he would assign the Spike movie to other writers and let them have the reigns, so I don't think it will take much time away from other things. He's going to be busy with Serenity publicity and doing Wonder Woman for quite some time.
This is my 1st post so please be gentle. I love the character "Spike" and JM is a remarkable actor. While my personal favorite would be to see a "Ripper", I would support anything Joss (the Evil Genius as he is affectionately referred to in my household)puts out there. I haven't seen Firefly yet, because of the emotional pain of watching Buffy and Angel, and I'm afraid of being hurt by the Evil Genius again (my therapist says I should be strong enough by September, and besides, I love Nathan Fillion). I'm not a Marti Noxon fan (because of comments she made about some of us who are more fanatical about Buffy/Angel and the "Spike/Buffy show" aspect of Season 6 &7) and chose not to watch anything she writes/directs/produces (yep...boycotted PP), so I hope she would not oversee this project. I would still support it.

My favorite character is Angel. Sure it has something to do with the fact that I think DB is the sexiest man on the planet, but also because his story was so painful. Just let him Shanshu and I will be happy. Joss and I share the same birthday, so I'm sure he is thinking as I am!
My brother shares Joss' birthday too. So I feel kind of connected to Joss. And very envious of my bro...although I'd rather be an Aquarius than a Cancer, no offense.

Welcome, AngelGroupie. I recommend Firefly. Give yourself a month or two to watch it a few times right before the movie comes out. It's shiny!

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-03-31 07:41 ]
Howdy, Angelgroupie :)

Don't be afraid of being hurt by watching Firefly. I mean, it's inevitable that you *will* be hurt if you do watch it, but that's just because it's Joss and you should know by now to expect nothing less. The most excruciating part is really understanding, after your first full viewing of the entire show, that it was killed way, way before its natural time, and that if FOX had bothered to show it in the right order and less than sporadically, we might be sitting here debating the last few episodes of its third (!) season right now. But pain is good for you, you know. And you won't be alone. You can watch it and hurt and then come here, and we'll comfort you and commiserate with you because we all know EXACTLY what you're going through.

And you seriously don't want to miss out on Nathan Fillion in all his extreme hotness. Really!

My favorite character is Angel, too (with Wesley coming in a very close second). In one way or another, I cherish everyone on all of Joss's shows (and Spike is right there behind Wesley. Along with Illyria...) but something in Angel's story touched parts of my soul that no other Whedonverse character ever has. Some day I hope we get a glimpse of what he's been up to since NFA. Until then, a Spike movie showcasing JM's talents would please me hugely and do a lot -- well, something -- to fill the ginormous hole left by a dearth of Jossiosity.

I don't really have a feel yet for the chances this could happen, though I do think it's pretty clear Joss is interested and that Ausiello fellow is doing his darnedest to help goose things along. A Spike movie on the WB is about the only thing, short of AtS S6, that could ever entice me to watch that network again, so if others feel as I do and they're looking to reclaim some lost viewers I'd say this might be a valid strategy. Otherwise, a cable channel backing the venture seems the most feasible option from a creative, strategic, financial and actual-level-of-programming-intelligence standpoint.

Basically, however, whatever Joss wants is what I want. If he's motivated to get a Spike thing happening, I'm there. If he isn't because he wants to do something else, I'm still there. My thereness is not dependent on Spike, or Angel, or Wesley. It's dependent on Joss.
Wiseblood, Wesley is also my 2nd favorite in the verse. I would also love to explore Ripper/Young Giles. I know those stories would be fascinating. Hopefully, that means Whedon stories for years to come!

Electricspacegirl, Jason Mraz also has a birthday on June 23. I think this balances the cosmic order, because he is such a safe sweet songwriter who, unlike Joss, would never, ever hurt us.
Andarcel, the thing is that there may not be a Spike project if the networks don't see enough support for it. The campaign to save Angel from cancellation was the biggest and most unique of it's kind and even that didn't sway the very blind WB into rethinking. Basically if we don't do something now there may be no Spike telemovie to support when it happens, because it simply will never happen. We are dealing with television execs here, remember? You either make it glaringly obvious or they miss the point entirely.

Also, as Killinj previously said, Joss probably will not be running this project himself on a day to day basis, therefore he will be free to carry on with whatever other plans he currently has. This is also why i'm hoping that this goes ahead. If a new showrunner, whoever it ends up being, does well with the movie then Joss may consider letting them take over the slayerverse for a regular series, with him staying in a supervisory role. That would work for me.
Basically, however, whatever Joss wants is what I want. If he's motivated to get a Spike thing happening, I'm there. If he isn't because he wants to do something else, I'm still there. My thereness is not dependent on Spike, or Angel, or Wesley. It's dependent on Joss.

Amen, Wiseblood.
AngelGroupie and Wiseblood: I am also full of the Angel love and often think he doesn't get the appreciation I feel he deserves as the hero of his show and the responsibilities thereof, as say Buffy gets as the hero of hers (although I also love the Mighty Buffster, don't get me wrong). While I really enjoyed the rest of the Fang Gang, the couple of episodes where Angel wasn't around ('cause he was at the bottom of the ocean or fighting demon monks at a monastery or some other minor inconvenience) I felt like there was a big hole somewhere.

I have ultimate faith in Joss and whatever he chooses to do with Spike - and I'll be there with bells on - but I also know that to see more of the Slayerverse without Buffy or Angel will be bittersweet indeed to me and - well - hole-like.
I think what it is with me, and the reason that i really want the slayerverse to endure, is that i don't see it as being just about Buffy and Angel. When i think of the slayerverse i see huge tapestry of supernatural heroes and stories that has so far been largely untapped.

It is similar to how i view the Marvel Universe. There are obviously the big names, such as Spidey, Hulk, the X-Men, Doc Strange, Daredevil, Captain America, etc, but what really enriches the story is the fact that even the lesser known characters play important, individual roles. Most people won't ever hear of Atlas, Ms Marvel, Luke Cage, Sentry and other current players in Marvel's books however they all number among the ones i most enjoy reading about.

With Buffy and Angel the same applies. They will always be the big two names in the 'verse but it is filled with a great number of people who can be the focus of equally thrilling stories. It would seem like a great shame, to me at least, to not have those stories told and the 'verse developed further just because a few fans couldn't see beyond two individual characters.
Warlock, I agree. My only "but" is that I can live w/Buffy's current place in the verse, but I want to see Angel resolve the major questions about his destiny so that he gets to a next level. I don't feel like the story I've totally bought into has been resolved. To know that each character in the verse has the potential to have stories and layers like that is awesome. Although, as I stated b4, I don't know if my heart can take Joss' telling of those tales. Still just hearing the music from "the most painful 30 secs of tv history - Last Look {Angel & Buffy's last look from Graduation II} puts me in a funk for days. Joss Whedon and Christophe Beck, Kleenex's favorite one - two punch. So you can imagine my anticipation & fear!

So my rambling means, I'll support anything...I just hope he gets around to completing Angel. And most of TV sucks, so anything w/ME or ME folk (except Marti) gets watched at my house.
Oh, don't get me wrong, AngelGroupie. I'm like you in that i absolutely want to see Angel's story resolved sooner or later, most likely in big screen movie form if David has anything to do with it. If that happens then i am (almost) certain it will be in the form of a Buffy/Angel movie, due to the fact that this will ensure the best possible audience for a cinematic release. At that time i'm really hoping that both Sarah and David will return to give some final closure to their roles in the 'verse. My greatest hope is that in the movie they will work together to finally defeat the Senior Partners and stop the ultimate Apocalypse that they have been planning for all this time. Angel shanshus after fulfilling his destiny and Buffy and Angel retire from the hero business to try and have a normal life together. That is the only way i think the majority of the fanbase will be happy and allow others to take the spotlight once and for all.

Until then i'm just hoping that the 'verse will get to expand without them though.
But, Warlock, Joss would never give the fans the happy ending tied up with bows that you hope for. And he has repeatedly said (or it is endlessly repeated online) that he wants to give the fans what they need, not what they want. I rather think that this means that, for him, the message will always be that life is never "normal," that it is never resolved the way we want it to be, and that we must always keep moving on, fighting the forces that try to oppress us. The only ending to that battle is of the dust-to-dust variety.
Usually i would agree with that absolutely, Palehorse, but sooner or later there will need to be an end to the Buffy/Angel story, one way or another. I absolutely believe that it will be Angel who gets to Shanshu, just for the practical reason that David is not likely to want to continue in the part of Angel beyond one more movie and i would assume that Sarah will not want to do anymore beyond that either. Angel becoming human and wanting to be with Buffy will give a good reason why they leave the fight against evil behind finally.

Maybe, because of that and because the movie will hopefully be viewed by many people who are not all that aware of Joss's series style and who will want some kind of solid conclusion, Joss will decide to give the whole Buffy/Angel situation final closure. Now, whether that will leave them happily together or whether Angel will draw his first human breath in years whilst holding Buffy as she dies in his arms, who can say? Whatever the end though, i feel there will be an end.

Of course all that is based upon there ever actually being a big screen movie, which will be made all the more likely if the profile of the slayerverse is kept high with these telemovies about Spike ... i'm just saying ... ;)
Basically, however, whatever Joss wants is what I want. If he's motivated to get a Spike thing happening, I'm there. If he isn't because he wants to do something else, I'm still there. My thereness is not dependent on Spike, or Angel, or Wesley. It's dependent on Joss.


Yup, Wiseblood took the words right out of my mouth.

[ edited by Spikecam21 on 2005-03-31 14:31 ]
Agree, palehorse. We might see some resolution to some things, but it will never be a "Bangel" or "Spuffy" type of resolution. It might be about our main characters coming to terms with the past, but not about revisiting that past in any permanent way. You don't take our heroine through a seven year journey toward adulthood to return her to her protective high school sweetheart, or to her wild and crazy college-age steamy sex partner. Just ain't gonna happen. Or if it does, I'll have to turn in my Joss-card. Why? Because, to quote "Faith in Buffy's body": "It's wrong!!"

On a Spike movie: Yes, please. He's not the 3rd most popular character in the Buffy-Angel verse, I think he's maybe the first most popular. So I think there would be a viewing audience, and I so want a taste of the slayerverse again. I love that Joss said it would be "fresh." Spike as character was always so reactive. I mean, he was all about fashioning himself to fit into what Dru or Angel or Buffy, and then Angel again, wanted or expected him to be. It would be great to see what Joss did with him in terms of character growth, if he was on his own.

And James Marsters. I trust that guy to bring it gloriously to life or unlife, as the case may be.

On the Spike-hater stuff, it just slays me, to hate a particular character more than you love the slayerverse and want another glimpse of it. To each his own, but I don't get this at all.
I have mentoined this before, but not recently, but one thing I'm dying to see is a Tales of the Slayers movie. I want it to feature either the slayers in the PTB or new Slayers we've never met. The Buffyverse mythology fascinates me. The old slayers, the new ones, the future ones.

There are so many fascinating minor characters that I'd love to see focused on: Holden, Clem, the Chaos Demon, D'Hoffryn, Whistler, Archduke Sebassis' Demon Slave, The Cheese Man, Mistress Meerna, the Three Sisters, and so many others. Wouldn't you just love for Joss to change it up and pick out someone we saw a long time ago just once, but they were so memorable we will never forget them. Mistress Meerna is one that I thought would be fun to see in a Joss show/film.

How about the Lorne show? It could have his backstory, have him come to the realization that his gift is a calling, and his journey would be about coming to terms with accepting that calling. Mistress Meerna and the Three Sisters ("Mmmm...Angel") could be his side-kicks. And his cousin from Pylea will come back from time to time, or for good.

I could go on with other spin-off ideas, but the ideas I have are eneless. For now, Spike is an excellent call. I'm so eager to see a new Spike, perhaps a kinder, gentler, more compassionate one. Who knows? If you don't like Spike now, maybe after seeing the movie you will.

Go, Joss! And go, James! I'm going to start a campaign within a week to let the PTB know Spike has our support. I'll post a thread in the flickr forum about it then.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-03-31 14:13 ]
Electricspacegirl, i'm absolutely useless when it comes to the website building stuff, assuming that is what you are going for, but if you need anyone to help out with content or other details then my email is on my profile. Whatever you need, feel free to ask, okay?
I have no idea how to build a website either, Warlock. That's the problem.

My ideas are simple. Send postcards and emails to the networks, the Fox studio, the suits, the journalist, everyone. I would suggest TNT and some other cable channels, along with rest. And I would say send them to every network. It can't hurt, right?

And I'd also suggest sending postcards to Joss, thanking him for his hard work, and letting him know he has our support. Is there anything I missed?

I have no idea if I can get a site running, but I know people. I need to rally up the troops and see if we can pool our resources.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-03-31 15:31 ]
I'm in a similar position there. I really want to get this organised and help to do as much as possible but i'm very limited in what i know how to do online. I'm like Giles, books i understand, computers ... not so much! :)

It would be great to be able to find somebody who could do the actual website building side of things so that the rest of us could provide all the neccessary information and ideas. I'm sure Caroline and the other mods would be grateful of that too. It would stop us from taking over Whedonesque threads with this kind of thing, which i realise is not being very fair.

In fact i think i'll go over to Flickr now and see if anyone has posted anything about this there. If not i'll start a thread and see if anyone can help out.
Who put the word "softcore" and "Spangel" in the same sentence? :o Blaspheme!!

Hardcore or nuthin', baby, come on! *evil cackle*


(Less of the OT: I'd love a Spike movie. I'm all over that idea. I'm onboard and saluting the captain. As long as Joss and (my personal writerly heroine) Jane Espenson are both involved. Fetch me a fork, I'll eat it up.
Moving to Flickr would probably be a good idea and would it not be worthwhile getting a hold of the people who ran Saving Angel and Support Spike to see what they were doing?

Because if some of that lot are thinking about running a campaign, the last thing you would want is several campaigns running at the same time if you see what I mean.
If the optimists posting in this thread really wanted to the campaign to be all inclusive why not run it as a 'Bring back the Buffyverse' campaign, that would be a slogan we could all get behind and leave it to Joss and the writers to figure out the characters and story that makes the most sense.

While we all really really want a new TV show with excellent writing based on the Buffyverse, a campaign focused on one or more characters are doomed to leave some of us cold and less enthusiastic, we all have our favorites after all.

esg, the only kinder and gentler and more compassionate Spike that would interest me would be if he really was kept as a pet by Illyria, all similarities to his and Buffy's relationship aside that pairing could bring the comedy. I dont think making Spike nicer would do the character any favors, nice people dont last long in the Buffyverse after all, that would be boring.
Simon, already got a thread up at Flickr so hopefully all talk of anything campaign like can now move to there and not overwhelm these discussions.

You may be right about getting in touch with the people who ran the previous campaigns. I've already joined up at Support Spike and checked out Saving Angel, the latter of which doesn't seem to have updated in a while. Emailing them might not be a bad idea though. What makes you think i've got a couple of weeks off and a little extra time on my hands at the moment? :)

Jpr, i do understand what you mean but right now it is the Spike telemovie that needs to be the centre of attention as that is the only project that is being discussed. If we start spreading the focus to all the other potential characters then there is the danger that we will spread ourselves way too thin.

Maybe once a Spike movie is accomplished it will be a good idea to expand to giving exposure to the wider slayerverse but for now i really feel that effort should be directed into getting the one telemovie that is currently possible.
Angel becoming human and wanting to be with Buffy will give a good reason why they leave the fight against evil behind finally.


I'd like to think they wouldn't abandon the fight for good just because Angel became human. I think it would be hard to have seen all you've seen and then just ignore it. And Buffy would still have her powers. Maybe I'd feel that whole 'Spiderman' thing of 'With great power comes great responsibility', but I'd probably keep fighting until I couldn't. And I don't think Buffy and Angel would be able to just go off into the sunset and leave it all to others. I could be wrong, I suppose, but I think they'd both still fight for good, in whatever capacity they could.

And of course, we're assuming Buffy's cookies are done and she chooses Angel instead of new guy JoeBlow or whoever! ;~p
Wouldn't poor Angel have to give the same response as in IWRY everytime he is offered humanity ?
- Sorry can't accept, I'm a hero and heroes dont get to retire and start a family cause the fight against evil are neverending. ETA,( After enjoying his day with B. of course)

Or ...
Buffy found a loophole in her deal though, maybe he can vamp/curse a bunch of junior heroes and send them off to fight the big evil while he goes off to Mexico with the Wolf-chick.

[ edited by jpr on 2005-03-31 20:13 ]
Doing a Faith show, while having lots of potential... it's another show about a slayer, and we've already had Buffy.

Doing a Spike show, while having lots of potential... it's another show about an ensouled vampire, and we've already had Angel.

Doing a Giles show? Jesus, yes please. If I've said it once I've said it a million times, but I'm far more interested in Ripper, who we know such tantalising little about, than I am about any other character. And it would be so different, and there's so much potential, and it could be set in my homeland of the UK. It would be glorious.

But, if I had to settle for a Spike show, I wouldn't say no.

The one thing I'm thinking here is, when did Joss say the quote in the Ausilleo column? I just worry everyone is getting their hopes up on a quote that is a year old, or was said before Joss got involved with Wonder Woman, or maybe is just taken out of context. For all we know, he was talking entirely hypothetically, and there is still slim to no chance of anything happening.

Hate to be a negative nancy, but I guess I'm just waiting till something more official is said. Plus, I kind of feel that if Joss wants it to happen, it'll happen. Networks would be easily convinced.

(Or really, he could just do the four TV movies he talked about in the past, that would cover all the bases as far as characters are concerned.)

Oh, and Angel was already turned human and hooked up with Buffy, but he decided to go back to being a vampire so he could continue the fight.
I read all the comments, and i think we had the closure to Buffy (and other characters) as a character, in Chosen.
A perfect end, so why do you say they need a final closure in a film?
After this film, people will say again that they need another closure.
I want a film version, but i think at this moment is no needed, a few years back, yes, but now...

In the other hand is Angel. I think the show ended in a very good way, but the were ready to tell more stories.
David B. not being interested in doing more than perhaps one big screen version actually speaks more in favor of Joss Shanshuing Spike rather than Angel. James Marsters may be saying that he doesn't want to do an aging vampire, (Which is a smart thing to be saying right now, since it adds some urgency to getting the thing done.) but he is a self-professed Joss-fan of the highest order. If Joss came to him and said "I have got the coolest idea for Spike." and it involved making him human and letting him age, I have no doubt JM would go for it, just because he knows how good Joss is. (What kind of a Watcher do you think a human Spike would make? Sorry, couldn't resist.)

As far as infighting goes, campaigning for a "Buffyverse" project just makes execs think you want Buffy back. We must think in terms of very little imagination here. "Slayerverse" is better, but the fact is that if there is a more narrow focus that the PTB may be interested in, that is what it is best to get behind so as not to dilute the message.

I went to some Buffyverse boards the other day, because my friend that I am introducing to BTVS just got near the end of Season 6 and "has some ideas about Spike" she wants to discuss. (She also wants to borrow the earlier ones she just watched in order to check out some things. I think she's hooked. Mwa ha ha ha ha!) She asked about others opinions, so since I'm pretty new to all this myself, I did a little lurking. I was appalled at the narrow, negative and vitriolic things I was reading about the characters and writers from people who were also saying they were fans of the show. Yikes! (...and yes, most was about Spike and whoever they blamed for Spike.)

I tried to relate by remembering how I felt at the end of Northern Exposure, when they destroyed a show and characters I adored, but I still could not get to the point these people were. I quietly left. I certainly hope that no one is so short sighted as to try to undermine support for any slayerverse project just because they do not like what they have seen of one character. (Sigh, I'm so naive.)
Gonnas, if you follow the links in Ausiello's column(s) back a bit (see the first questioner's post in this thread's latest Ausiello's column for the first link; then follow back from there), you will see that this is a very recent Joss statement. Ausiello first started making waves in January, at some tv industry press tour. That's when he made a point of speaking with Janollari of the WB about Angel/Spike movies. Then more recently Ausiello spoke with Joss by phone on one or more occasions. I'm not sure exactly when, but I believe these calls were sometime in the last two months. (See the links.) Ausiello's discussion(s) with Joss were certainly *after* he spoke with Janollari in January because he gets Joss's reaction to Janollari's statements.

As for Wonder Woman, the official Wonder Woman announcement was made on March 17th. I would imagine that the final negotiations were going on well before that. It seems likely that Joss's recent comments were made taking Wonder Woman into consideration.

Of course, this still doesn't mean this will go anywhere.

I'm dumbfounded by all this apparent vitriol out there about Spike. Huh. I don't go to any other sites besides Whedonesque so I've been somewhat in the dark about this. Wow. It seems very strange and unfortunate to me to inject so much vitriol into fan discussions but it's certainly every fan's prerogative to hate with a passion any character they want. Fair enough. I guess because ME shows are so stirring and connect with so many deep feelings in people, it's not surprising that disagreement can get passionate. I'm just glad these kinds of discussions don't get out of hand here on my beloved Whedonesque. What happened to agreeing to disagree? And what happened to having faith in the guy who *created* the characters you *do* like??? Thank goodness Joss Whedon remains in charge of his own brain. Sheesh. In Joss I trust.
I don't think they would go with the former demon adjusting to human life storyline again, they already went full circle with that with Anya (and quite beautifully and fullfillingly, too).
Well I think that sort of seals the deal and any TV/Movie stuff with Buffy or Angel. Unless SMG ran to Joss about a project I doubt it would happen.

So hopefully the save angel sites adjust there focus on getting a Spikecentric project done. They should probably still try a Faith spinoff as well since that would meet Joss's requirement of being new.
I was appalled at the narrow, negative and vitriolic things I was reading about the characters and writers from people who were also saying they were fans of the show.

I feel exactly the same way. I frequent Livejournal, where I have tons of Buffy fans on my friends list, and I occasionally check out the the Serenity board. But Whedonesque is my home page and my first stop when I get online every day.

I never felt comfortable at the other boards I've visited. I never understood the short-sightedness, and I always dislike the layout. I'm sure there are some nice ones, but haven't been to them.

"I want the Buffyverse, but I want it my way." I find that kind of short-sightedness pretty selfish. Do people read novels and complain that someone they loved died at the end, or so-and-so didn't end up with so-and-so, or that someone wasn't written in character?

It's Joss' universe, and we are just lucky to have the opportunity to experience it. He owes us nothing, where I owe him all the gratitude I can muster.

/end rant.
Rant all you like, Electricspacegirl, i think it is deserved. I'm glad to see that it wasn't just me taking those anti-Spike comments too seriously and that others agree that certain "fans" take the hate a little too far. Not every character is going to be a favourite of yours but that doesn't mean you need go over the top, they are only fictional characters after all.

Gonnas, as Phlebotinin said, these comments from Joss and James are very current and have been made since Joss was linked to Wonder Woman. Trust me, i wouldn't be anywhere near as optimistic about this or willing to dedicate my time to helping it go ahead if i didn't actually have evidence that things might happen.
Whether anything comes of it or not it certainly keeps things exciting! I'd love to see a spike-centric something, I'm sure Joss (and James) would do it justice.

As for the SPIKE naysayers, people do like to bitch don't they? I haven't actually gone and read any of that, nor will I. Like some of you THIS is where I hang my hat these days, and mostly for that very reason. Not just because of the few that currently are playing Kick the Spike but because there always seem to be something people are unhappy about. Some people are just never happy! S'what I like about here, we discuss things, even disagree but don't get angry!

I'm amazed just how popular this site still is, almost a year from the last new Whedonesque ep! Hopefully all this particular talk isn't just a tease and actually leads to something!

@simon, what thread has the most comments on it to date? I see this one is pretty darn long!

[ edited by Grace on 2005-04-01 01:17 ]
Joss made us all very passionate about Buffy/Spike vs. Buffy/Angel. You couldn't get a more strongly debated triangle. We love our ships deeply. In fact, I've never seen such passion for three characters in all my years.

I support the Whedonverse, and I would HOPE that these few (Yes there's not that many that I've seen, they are just really vocal) know that Spike is only a character. Trying to stop more Whedonverse movies happening because you are angry about the turn of events in latter seasons is rather silly.

[ edited by twiggy on 2005-04-01 01:15 ]
You're totally right Twiggy, people are passionate about this 'verse, from love to hate and back again. Also, I'm sure you're correct about the most vocal being the minority.
newcj, I hope that Angel's story doesn't get short-changed just because Marsters is seemingly the most enthusiastic. And Joss has said that a Buffy/Angel hook-up could happen because that's what fans have been wanting to see. And, that he and the writers did not see Spike/Buffy because of the similarities between Luke/Laura from GH. Therefore, do I (a pitiful hopeless romantic) dare leave my poor heart out there still for Joss to trample...sure!

I don't see them leaving the evil fighting behind so much...maybe becoming a sort of "Hart to Hart" (I know that's an awful analogy, but you know what I mean). I'm not hearing that fans will not support any project that gets the nod. Hopefully, getting at least something done ensures that it does not end. At this point, I'm anxiously awaiting "Cursed".
I guess I stand corrected then.

Whatever Joss wants to do is fine by me, since I'm pretty much locked in at this point to watch whatever he produces. I'm not saying he's infallible or that he couldn't make something I won't like, I'm just saying that by this point he's earned the benefit of the doubt. If he committed to doing a Spike movie, or anything Buffy related at all, I'd be pretty damn ecstatic.

As for the vitrolic responses from some of the community. Well, that's to be expected, really. I think if I had created a show I'd be okay with the extremes of love and hate people felt for the characters. Better polar extremes, than simply everyone shrugging their shoulders and thinking "Meh" about all of them. If you're inspiring strong emotions you're doing something right.

Of course, having said that, and speaking of benefit of the doubt, I guess an anology could be made to season seven of Buffy. You know, she's saved everyones life countless times, led them through countless different battles, even gone so far as to die for them, and yet still they turn on her and kick her out the house, not trusting her, and acting like everything that had gone before never happened. This really bugged me in the show, and it's the only thing that ever did.

But what I'm saying is, Joss has produced 13 seasons of excellent television, much of which transcends the form.

So why would anyone want to kick him out their house?

I really need to go to sleep.
Gonnas, Right there with you.

AngelGroupie, I understand loving a particular character, and wanting to see them continue. The thing is, if the actor who played that character is not interested in continuing in the available formats, we all might have to make do with written stories of some kind or simple hear-say from other characters. That does not mean forever, but at least for now...and...well...unfortunately DB has the age problem in spades. So maybe Shanshu someday, who knows?

Luckily for me, I'm not a shipper. I love the complexity of most of the relationships and issues that were explored, the more complex the better. (Though I could have done without the whole Cordy/Connor thing. I'm not that far gone.) So as long as the writing stays good and the relationships, of whatever kind, are interesting and reality based, I'm a happy camper. ("Camper" as in children at camp, not writing camp. You know, on the other thread?)

So for all who love Angel/Buffy I hope you get some resolution and for the Spike/Buffy camp (again not..."camp" ;-) ) I hope you get some resolution too. For me, Buffy's story has enough resolution, I'm perfectly ready for a Spike TV movie with any supporting characters of the slayerverse who are available and any new ones Joss and friends want to throw at us. Bring it on.

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