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April 08 2005

Drew Goddard gives his thoughts on a possible Spike Spin-off in this issue of Buffy Magazine. Link leads to Titan Magazines Homepage. The Information can be seen by clicking on 'More' where you will find the relevant part of the interview.

Drew was talking about aspects of his Buffy life, Angel and writing episodes like "Selfless", "Dirty Girls" and more specifically, "Never Leave Me". This was when the conversation got onto Spike, his character and his journey through the shows. The interview then got onto whether Spike could carry his own spin-off. This is what Drew said:

"He is so great. As a person James is so great and as an actor there is no one I've ever met that is better. He can just do anything.

The tricky thing we were finding is how do you make that spin-off different from 'Angel'. They are very different characters but in terms of making a show.... 'Buffy' and 'Angel' are very different shows. You wouldn't want 'Angel' and 'Spike' to be the same show. I always like Spike better when he isnt the star. I like it when he is the guy making fun of the star.

That being said, if they said "Drew we are doing a Spike show", they would have to kill me not to be involved. I would be camping on Whedon's doorstep!"


And come on what a nice guy is Drew Goddard!

Credit must go to the Buffy Magazine, the author of the article Tara Di Lullo (TaraDi if you're on, maybe...Buffy Animated update pleeeeaaaaassssseeeee!) and of course Drew himself!

So, let me get this straight. Joss wants to do something with Spike, James wants to return to playing the role, now Drew Goddard wants in too?

How is this not happening yet? Is every network and cable channel in the States totally blind to the potential for reviving the Buffyverse? The media coverage it would bring alone would make a Spike telemovie or series worthwhile.

All i do know is that there will never be a better time to relight the spark of the Buffyverse. If nothing comes of this then i get the feeling that we may never see a new adventure from this little fictional reality. I really think it may be now or never.
I don't think "Spike" would be the same show as "Angel" - they are very different vampires. I'm fully confident that Joss and company could make a Spike show as different from Angel, as Angel was from Buffy.

I get the feeling from Joss's comments not long ago that he has some ideas to put a "new spin" on Spike. If Drew Goddard wants to be one of the writers for a telemovie or series I'd be very happy to have him onboard! :) Jane Espenson, Tim Minear, David Fury ... all good choices too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the articles published in Buffy Magazine weeks or months after the actual interview? I just want to get a sense of the timeline when all of this is being talked about.

It's nice to see it getting some more press! Someone send a copy to Joss ... unless of course he's reading this! I'd really love to see James again. It could be Spike or something totally new. I just miss seeing him on my TV every week.
Wasn't it Fury who always wrote Spike as being more evil than anyone else did? He wouldn't be my first choice as the writer for the Spike movie. Well, duh, Joss would be, but after him I mean, then maybe Drew. Or Jane.
Killinj - "It could be Spike or something totally new."

Well, i hate to be picky but for me it has to be Spike, mainly due to the fact that the Buffyverse is nearly all i watch on television, at least as far as non-music related shows go. I'm not the kind of person that watches a lot of television at all, other than MTV2, Kerrang and Scuzz anyway, and i'm not looking for anything new to get interested in. I barely have enough time to listen to my cd's as it is. However the Buffyverse totally sucked me in and i really want to see it continue and expand in new areas. Spike is easily one of my top three characters so i would love to see James return to the role as soon as possible.

Obviously it should go without saying that i wish the guy all the luck in the world in whatever other ventures he wants to try out but it's very doubtful that i'll see him play anything other than Spike.
It was David Fury who tried to convince Joss not to do the Spike/Harmony sex in Season Five of Angel. It is David Fury in the DVD commentary who said that Spike is a different kind of vampire, going so far as to suggest that perhaps he was better than Angel. I think he was even the one who was the deciding factor in having Spike win the fight in Destiny. Fury used to be Spike = Evil, but he changed his mind after seeing Fool For Love. So, I'm not worried about him writing for Spike. Granted, I still want someone like Jane Espenson on the writing team too because without a doubt she loves Spike.
I would be the author of that interview :) I talked to Drew in February, to clarify the timeline.

Rest assured, there are plenty of former ME writers that would absolutely love to be involved in anything Joss decides to do in continuing the Buffy/Angel universes. It's all going to depend on when and if Joss decides to pursue it and if there's a home to take it to. When that happens, he'll have to beat his former employees off with a stick in deciding whom to assign that peach of a project :)
Mosh Pit Demon - I don't watch much television either, but that's because there's not much worth watching. James is worth watching. Besides, if someone like Joss came up with a show with JM in it, you wouldn't even give it a chance? Come on!

Oh, and just as a tease, you lost me when you said you watched MTV2! *grin*
My top of the line wish list:

Angel and Spike hitch a ride on Serenity. This scenario involves lots of slashy Spangel action.

Spike meets Meleka Fray.

Oh, yeah... and a big screen Angel/Buffy movie, with everyone from the verse.
TaraDi, any idea of how big the chances are for a Spike movie?
Killinj, truthfully, i probably wouldn't. If you ask anyone who knows me they will tell you that it is a small miracle to even get me sat down in front of the television if there isn't a music channel on, and even then only if it is playing a rock track. I rarely, if ever, watch anything drama related at all. Buffy and Angel have been unique in that they are appointment television for me whenever they are on. There is very likely quite a few other tv shows on even now that i would enjoy, i just don't have the time or interest to find out.

Nope, i'll make time for anything new from the Buffyverse but other than that i seriously doubt my interest in television overall will ever change.
Mosh Pit Demon, I didn't "make time" for "Firefly" when it first came out...because I watch so little TV and couldn't add an hour to my week. Because, well, it's TV, you know.

We all know how that turned out.

I'd love to see as Spike show, more than I could possibly tell you. But, if Joss comes up with any kind of new show at all, regardless of the premise/plot/cast/medium, I am there. I screwed up once before, and will not make the same mistake again.
To be honest, i have seen Firefly. With being such a big fan of his first two series i thought i had better at least give it a look so i borrowed a friend's DVD set. It is a very enjoyable television series, easily of equal quality to Buffy and Angel, however it's just not my cup of tea.

I'm fascinated by all things supernatural. Anything to do with ghosts, vampires, werewolves, that kind of thing, so the Buffyverse goes along very nicely with that. Science fiction however doesn't hold the same interest to me, no matter how high the quality is. I'm really glad that i watched Firefly once, it was well worth the time. I very much doubt i'll ever see it again though.

Serenity, on the other hand, i do intend to go see at least once, even if only to see where Mal and the crew end up after the show ended. I'm not exactly biting my nails in anticipation in the same way i would be for a Buffy movie but i do think i'll enjoy Serenity well enough.
Let's see Joss is no doubt on post production for Serenity (gut instinct says the trailer will be online in about two weeks) and probably doing preliminary work for Wonder Woman at the moment as well. Busy man. I'd even go as far as to say a very busy man. So I wouldnt be looking for a Spike TV movie in the immediate future. Next year? Autumn 2006? Spring 2007?
Simon has it right. While the Spike TV Movie might be an intriguing idea to Joss, he would still have to 1.) make time to develop it, 2.) make time to sell it to a network, 3.) secure one of his non-employed ex-staffers to write/direct it and then 4.) actually get it made.

Joss is a little busy right now too :)
I wouldn't be looking for a Spike TV movie in the immediate future either, since we have yet to see network interest or actual business movement forward on this, but didn't Joss say he didn't necessarily have to write or direct this? So it's not necessarily predicated on his schedule, as far as his other commitments go, as long as he has enough time to oversee things and set it in motion.

It'd be awesome if Ultimate Drew were involved in this, should this occur (and I'm actually inclined to agree with him - I think Spike is a better reactive character than a proactive character, but if they were to make a Spike TV movie, I'm there). Another good candidate that comes to mind is Steve DeKnight. And am I really delusional in remembering that his was a name that was actually banded about (by JM at a con back when the idea of 4 telemovies each on different characters was being bandied about, I *think*) as someone who might write/direct a Spike TV movie? I could be delusional..

As for David Fury, I haven't been particularly fond of either his "people who like Spike and think he should be with Buffy also like to write serial killers in prison" or his "Spike was a special vampire who retained some of his humanity and maybe some of his soul" (if that's true, doesn't that mean his killings as soulless vamp are actually worse?) verbal stances. He does write good Spike, though, and that's ultimately what matters, IMO.
Am I the only one who cannot find the (link to the) interview on the page Apocalypse has linked to? The only "more" leads to a competition ....
Since when did being busy ever really stop Joss? I do think he's decided to take more time for his family, which probably bares more weight on how he sets up his schedule than his actual work commitments.
Well I could see Joss taking great delight in giving Spike the Shanshu after all. He has a reputation for giving his characters the thing that they want the least, and Spike would hate to be human.

Also it wouldn't then matter If James appeared to have aged in it. We as an audience could be picking up on Spike a year or so after NFA and see him having to come to terms with his 'rebirth' and all the new problems that brings, especially in his desire to 'fight the good fight' so to speak.
I agree with Mosh Pit Demon. How is this not happening?

Unlike other new shows, a Spike series would come with a built-in audience from the get go.

How sad is the state of television today since 'Not Fade Away' aired?

For all that is good in the land of television, somebody please greenlight this series!
With all due respect to Joss, and i have a hell of a lot of respect for the guy, quite honestly i'm not too concerned whether or not he is greatly involved in the Spike telemovie. Whilst there is no doubt that if he wrote and directed the project it would be awesome i also believe that there are a number of other people who could do justice to it as well. Several already mentioned above in this thread.

Hopefully, if Joss is really too busy with Wonder Woman and finishing things off on Serenity, he will simply allow somebody else to take over on Spike. I'm sure he will wish to watch over what happens but i can't see that taking too much of his time.

To be perfectly frank, it would be in Joss' best interest to keep all of his franchises going if possible, especially the Buffyverse. The fact of the matter is that Firefly/Serenity is never going to be as popular as Buffy is and it certainly will never be a household name in the same way either. Wonder Woman may or may not be a success but i very much doubt that the majority of the people who see it will be there because Joss is involved anyway. Buffy and Angel are what Joss will always be remembered for and so it makes sense to keep that fire burning.

Spring 2007, as Simon suggested, is a very long time from now and i would imagine that a lot of fans will have lost interest in waiting for a Spike telemovie by that point and so even if it still got made there may not be the audience for it by that point. Joss gathered his fanbase with Buffy and it is already clear that a large section of that fanbase is slowly starting to move on to other shows or interests since Angel ended last year. There are the dedicated few that will continue to come here to Whedonesque and follow his work wherever it leads but the majority arrived here through Buffy and Angel and will only stay as long as there is a glimmer of hope that the story will continue. I know that the main reason i check in here when i get chance is to see about the Buffyverse, not Serenity, Astonishing X-Men or Wonder Woman.

I really believe that it makes the most sense for Joss to keep his first and greatest success alive, regardless of whatever else he does or how much he chooses to be involved. Even if he has very little to do with any future Buffy/Angel type series, as long as they exist, he will stay in the spotlight and his other projects will continue to get the kind of coverage enjoy from sites like this existing. The more Buffy/Angel fans that move on to new shows, the less people there will be who know or care about what he is doing next.
I disagree with you, Mosh Pit Demon. To me, for a Spike telepicture or movie to be great, two things are undeniably necessary. Joss and James.

The other writers know Spike, love him or hate him, but Joss brought him to life, and needs to be there to see him through. So even if he doesn't do it all, a successful Spike movie would need his flavor. His guidance, even if its just on the periphery. Joss Whedon's involvement in this (so far, fairy dust of a) project is crucial to me.

I also disagree with you on the importance of us fans and the success of Serenity. I believe Joss fans will have an enormous impact, but that ultimately, it'll be the Joss Who? people that puts it over. That doesn't lessen OUR impact, though. What about all the multiple times we'll all see it? The friends and family that we will drag along for their own good? The extra butts we bring will generate big dinero. So we ARE important.
I also disagree with MPD. There is a reason that Serentiy was greenlighted, and this was the phenomenal success of the DVDs. Give that success, and with the likely success of the movie, I would not be surprised to see either a new series on TV or a second movie.

However, wtih regard to Spike, I am thinking that James may wish to do some work outside of the Buffyverse before returning to it, to prevent himself from being typecast; but, there is no better time than now, for I do think the Buffyverse will begin to lose its adherents as time goes on.
I'm with you, Willowy. Joss must be involved in a Spike movie. As you say, even if he's only involved as Periphery Joss, he must be involved.
His writers have said that he looked over every script before it went into production and made changes as needed, which they felt improved their story. Who knows what the episodes would have been like without his input?!
I'm REALLY hoping Joss comes around to lurk, 'cause either this movie or potential series has GOT to start.
To paraphrase: as Joss goes, so goes my nation. I will look out for and support any project that the man gets involved in. As far as a Spike movie is concerned: it'd be nice for the Buffyverse to continue, but I'm not hugely invested in that outcome. More important to me is JW and the other writers continuing to produce high quality, resonant, and provocative entertainment, whether in movies, TV, or on the back of cereal boxes. I adore the characters in Buffy, but Joss, David Greenwalt, and others created those characters; I'm certain they can create others who will be equally as compelling.
looking - YES! Spike and Maleka! They both have that bad ass attitude.

I agree and dissagree with you MPD. Yes, I do think it is crucial for the 'verse to keep going. This may be because I'm a devoted Buffy/Angel fan, but there are becoming a lot fewer of us. The continuation of the 'verse will no doubt increase the Joss legacy. It does look like Joss is becoming the rising star we have all known was there all along, but he needs to come back to his roots. I do disagree about not having Joss involved. No matter who writes, I think his input always gives that special Joss taste we have all found and love.
Yea, I definately think Joss needs to be involved. And honestly, do you really think that a Spike movie could ever be made without a huge amount of over seeing by JW??? He would not be able to help himself. The 'Verse' was his baby. I am in the camp of 'fingers crossed, please let it happen now!' but I do understand that sometimes these things take some time to come about. I have no doubt that Joss has already got the enitre story of Spike in his mind, it just needs to be written down and handed to another writer. Then he can go off and do WW, and come back afterwards to re-touch the finished draft. Then, sick us, his fans onto the networks. We can do all the pushing, and I am sure Joss knows this ;) Who knows? Maybe we can push for a theatrical release???
inbetween - I don't have a "more" option either. Maybe it's a subscribers-only thing? I dunno...
If Spike shanshus over Angel, I'll be so mad I'll TiVo the TV movie and watch it five minutes out of synch with everyone else. ::fumes::

I suppose it's because i'm invested in the Buffyverse specifically,rather than Joss in general, that i'm able to look at it a different way. The fact is that it is very possible that i will never get into another television show again and so whatever else any of the cast and crew do, good luck to them and all but i won't be seeing it. Well, except for James' musical ventures anyway, i'll no doubt be keeping track of those, it's kind of what i do.

Don't get me wrong here, guys, but i lurk here a lot more than i post simply because i don't have much of an opinion on many of the topics that get discussed. However i've still gotten to know the opinions of most of you regulars and i fully expected many of you to jump on my "Joss need not be involved" suggestion. I know that most of you here will no doubt stand by your belief that Joss has to be a significant part of any continuation of the 'verse or it just won't be as good. The thing is though that it is simply not true, or at the very least we can't definately say it is true until we have seen what others can do if left to their own devices. As well as that, it is being unfair to Joss to make him feel like he would be obligated to do it himself and unfair to us Buffy/Angel specific fans if nothing ever happens because of that.

I would very much like Joss to be involved, that should go without saying. I'd love him to write it all himself and be there on set everyday to make sure it goes according to his specific vision. Thing is though that he won't be able to do that. Probably not now and maybe not ever, at least as far as television is concerned. He has Serenity and Astonishing X-Men now, he has Wonder Woman coming up, if Serenity does well they will want a sequel ... the list goes on. If we wait until Joss has the time to put 100% back into the Buffyverse then we may never see it return. Personally i don't want to pressure the guy into doing anything he doesn't want to be doing so i'm happy he has all these projects that he is loving. Still won't get me a Spike telemovie though will it?

I'm not one of those that says that unless Joss is involved in continuing the 'verse then i'm not interested in it happening. That is like saying that i will only ever read X-Men comics written or overseen by Chris Claremont. Sure, he has been my favourite X-Men writer for over a decade but there are others that have come in and made an amazing job of writing them. One of those being Joss himself, i might add.

The way i look at it, if Joss can do the Spike movie then fantastic. If not then at least give one of his fellow Mutant Enemy writers a chance to prove you wrong. If Joss came on here today and said that he had got a Spike telemovie series greenlit however he wouldn't be able to be involved beyond the occasional nod to story direction but he had arranged Greenwalt, Fury and Noxon to create them i know i'd be happy with that. Surely any other fan of the 'verse would too.

EDIT: Just noticed that i had deleted a sentence in the second paragraph in order to reword it and then forgotten to type it out again, making the entire paragraph read very strangely. Makes more sense now. :)

[ edited by Mosh Pit Demon on 2005-04-09 15:17 ]
inbetween and amystar. The article is written by TaraDi from the magazine, and so nothing is online, only in the pages of the magazine. Its a rule that you must have a link to Whedonesque, so I've linked to the Titan Magazines Home Page, since they are the ones who produce and publish it, and copied out the relevant piece of the article under the subject line. 'More' should have been highlighted next to the end of the subject line and would have taken you to the piece that i copied out from above. Hope that helps clear it up for you

Thanks TaraDi for the update, (but grrrrr, you avoided Buffy:Animated! :)!) I am in much envy of you for writing for the magazine
Joss is busy no doubt. But, hasn't he always been busy? How much time does making a movie cost? The point is that the Spike movie must be made NOW. Now there is the attention for it. And James is getting older.
"I know that most of you here will no doubt stand by your belief that Joss has to be a significant part of any continuation of the 'verse or it just won't be as good. The thing is though that it is simply not true..."

That's all good that you feel you are the bringer of truth and light there, MPD. However in my world, it happens to be very true. Who's to say your opinion carries more weight than mine?

Also, "left to their own devices?" Point Pleasant.
Willowy, i notice you ended the above quote from my previous post at the point where i go on to say that in fact we just don't know if it is true or not. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me and obviously you are also entitled to your own opinion. However i would prefer it if you didn't edit my comments in order to make me look like i'm trying to say something i'm not. Hopefully everyone else will read what i said in it's original context rather than how you put it across.

As for Point Pleasant, never saw it so i really cannot judge. I loved Marti's work on Buffy though so i'd be willing to see what she could do with Spike.
Watcher, you post as MPD?

I didn't finish quoting because that particular statement was what I wanted to answer to. Did you notice the dot dot dot? That means there's MORE.

And I did quote the end of your sentence, there. You obviously saw the PP remark. What's the beef? Also? I can choose, or not, to respond to anything said. I'll quote from what I wish to respond to. I did it exactly how I meant to.
Whoops, apologies to Mac, didn't know you had been online whilst i was out, buddy. I've told you to log out when you are done but will ya listen??? ;)

Obviously the above post was actually mine, rather than Mac's (The Watcher). One of the perils of sharing a house and a computer, i'm afraid.

EDIT: to respond to Willowy.

Again, you are entitled to say whatever you want to say and respond to my comments as you like. However your previous post did make me sound a lot more condescending than i was actually being. I just think it would have been fairer to leave the sentence unedited to prevent anyone from getting the wrong idea. That's all.

[ edited by Mosh Pit Demon on 2005-04-09 16:50 ]
Crap. Where do I pick up my Whedonesque roomie? I'll bet the line is really long nowÖ

P.S. I have my own computer (so no ID-sharing faux pas)!
I have my own computer too, Brownishcoat. Unfortunately that doesn't stop certain people hijacking it whenever they want to because they are too damn cheap to buy their own. ;)

And to clarify, he isn't a roomie, he is a guest that has stayed for a lot longer than we originally planned. My girlfriend will back me up on that one! :)

Mosh Pit Demon wrote -

I've told you to log out when you are done but will ya listen???

And i've told you to always take a second to check who's username is up at the top of the screen but do you ever listen to me? Huh? Huh? :p

Back on topic, and to defend MPD a little, although i'm more of a "Joss Whedon in general" fan, i do agree that it would not do Joss any harm to keep his core slayerverse fanbase happy. I love Firefly as much as anyone (in fact that was my Firefly DVD set that MPD mentioned earlier) but i will always consider Buffy and Angel to be my main reason for being a Whedon fan and i really do want to see more from that story on television.
The argument on Joss being involved/not involved is fairly moot, since the man himself has said he'd never let anything be made without his supervision. Sure, he might not write or direct it, but I'd wager he'd be executive producing it, and in that case this means overseeing the entire production, making sure it all goes to plan, and guiding the process.

Sure, Mutant Enemy had a load of talented people, but at the end of the day Joss was responsible for all of it. He was the man in charge, and to say that it could be as good with him only turning up once a fortnight to give comments on continuity in the 'verse... well, that would seem naive. Not to mention underplaying his work on Buffy and Angel.

As for Joss always being more popular for Buffy, I don't think that's necessarily true either. Firefly may have got cancelled pretty quickly, but it sold millions on DVD and is about to be heavily marketed and released as a major motion picture. Buffy may have become a household name, but it still really only had cult success in terms of ratings. Serenity has the chance to go really mainstream.
Are people in fact "moving on" from the Buffyverse? I see no sign of it. Yes, they are watching other shows, why not? Doesn't mean that the Buffyverse is not still the brightest star in their firmament. But there are new fans all the time thanks to re-runs and DVDs. So, few fans for a Spike movie in 2007? I can't see that happening. But I too would like to see it earlier.And with as much Jossian involvement as possible.
Are people in fact "moving on" from the Buffyverse? I see no sign of it.

Exactly, look it's taken 25 yrs for them to finally make Hichikers Guide into a movie! The fans, and Douglas himself, had all but given up on it, and now in just under 3 weeks we'll get to see it! (insert happy dance) and trust me, that bugger is gonna be HUGE!!! So if we have to wait a couple more yrs for Spike, people will wait! Now as for the networks?? It would be good if they signed on the dotted line now...for the future of Spike.
Just curious... has Joss ever posted here? or any writers?

Spike and Melaka Fray, there is no better possible combo. If you haven't read Fray then you probably don't understand the love. Fray is an essential component of any Whedon fan's collection, because it's in the Buffyverse!!! Just a little bit in the future. I paid like twenty dollars for it but it's a lot cheaper if you order online.

Edited to add: So it's looking like Serenity trailers will be in Hitchiker's???? I want to see it anyway but if there are Serentiy trailers that will guarantee my attendance.

[ edited by April on 2005-04-10 03:51 ]
April, FYI, and since you are a newish Whedonesquer,Joss has posted here a number of times, the latest a few days ago, having to do with sharing the stage with Sondheim. See his profile here.
Yea, April, he posts here fairly regularly. Sometimes just to comment and say hello. Other times to announce stuff. Like when Serenity was pushed back til later in the year, he came and told us before the press found out. He's pretty kool like that. Infact his posts are usualy pretty witty, as is his want.
Infact his posts are usualy pretty witty, as is his want.

Totally agree. The posts sound so much like him (esp. if you've heard any commentaries). It's incredible!
Infact his posts are usualy pretty witty, as is his want.

Isn't it "wont" not "want?" (Sorry, sometimes I have to say something. Hiding under the desk now.)
I want Joss to make it his wont to post here with his never wanting wonted witticism and I wonít take no for an answer unless he uses his magic wand.

newcj - thatís what you get for making me look it up wantonly in the Oxford Dictionary.
I liked Joss' post about the hideous arm. That cracks me up every time.
As far as Mosh Pit Demon's comment about the Buffy/Angel fanbase and the possibility that it may start to drift away if something doesn't happen soon, i don't altogether agree, as he knows, but i would say that the intensity of the fanbase may start to lessen and, if the wait for something new is too long, become too insignificant for any network or channel to consider worthy of reviving.

It is already obvious that the fanbase is starting to get less involved by the fact that so many websites are closing down or just not being updated anymore. Of course this is to be expected now that there are no new episodes to provide new content, however it does give the impression that people are starting to care less about Buffy and Angel. Whether it is true or not is really beside the point in many ways. All that matters is the impression that the network execs will get.

Personally i do think that there will always be a very solid fanbase for Buffy and Angel but unless it is seen and heard then it won't do much good. The longer the wait, the quieter things are bound to get so i do have to agree that the sooner something happens regarding the next phase of the slayerverse, the better it will be.

Just wanted to add as well that i don't think that Hitchiker's Guide isn't really comparable in that it is a new version of the story, rather than a continuation of what went before, at least as far as i'm aware anyway. I'm not actually a fan so i'm just going off what i've been told with that. What we are hoping for is the current slayerverse story being continued, not a revamp.

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