So men are heroes, and women are vixens? Someone point me at the responsible party so I can punch him/her in the head. How disgustingly sexist.

Allyson | April 22, 03:06 CET

I was about to say that too, Allyson. I wish Buffy wasn't on the list since it counters what the show was about.

charisma | April 22, 03:17 CET

And Ellen Ripley?

Allyson | April 22, 03:19 CET

I think Xander said it first. "Buffy's a superhero."

WhoIsOmega? | April 22, 04:02 CET

Yeah, this is a backhanded "compliment" if ever there was one.

palehorse | April 22, 04:11 CET

I had to go look the word vixen up. It means...

1. A female fox
2. A woman regarded as quarrelsome, shrewish, or malicious.

Perhaps the Super Vixens is another word for like Villain???
And not Hero as some of us are thinking?

EDIT: I just had a look at that website and NOW understanding what the word means fully, I think it's time for some whoop a**!! Ya don't mess with me Mr! They'll be getting a very strong worded letter! That'll learn em!

[ edited by nixygirl on 2005-04-22 02:53 ]

nixygirl | April 22, 04:37 CET

What utter crap. Men can be heroes or villains, women look good in leather pants regardless of which side they fight for.

Grrr....

I mean, go Buffy recognition, but she should have been on the Hero list.

Edited to ask: Who at Bravo do we send the emails to? Anyone have an email?

[ edited by pixxelpuss on 2005-04-22 02:41 ]

pixxelpuss | April 22, 04:39 CET

And good Lord! The Bond girls are in the top 5!!! The Bond Girls!!!!

nixygirl | April 22, 04:41 CET

So I wasn't the only one thinking "this is blatantly sexist!"

Nebula1400 | April 22, 04:58 CET

Nope, you're not alone. Even if the listing setup wasn't ridiculously sexist to start with (why not just two ranking lists of superheroes and villains?!), I'd be shuddering at any program that ranked Buffy in between the Bond Girls and Charlie's Angels.

And the Bride ranked below the Austin Powers girls?!

meimi | April 22, 05:15 CET

How incredibly annoying. "Vixen," my foot. That is entirely what Joss's stated vision is NOT. Buffy is a superhero, no ifs, ands or buts.

phlebotinin | April 22, 05:29 CET

GAH! How awfully inappropriate and stupid and wrong. That said, my initial disgust gives way to pragmatism... these countdown shows are cheap to produce and easy to promote. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't nearly the worst of them. Court TV probably has "Top 10 Serial Killers" and MTV probably has "50 Worst Drug Overdoses" and so on... yet another reason to be grateful for Netflix & my nonexistent cable bill.

gingeriffic | April 22, 05:44 CET

Oh and not to forget it's done in with FOX! or of course as we all call them W&H.

nixygirl | April 22, 06:01 CET

Remember when Bravo was an edgy, artsy channel? (I taped all of Twin Peaks off of Bravo back in the day).
To see it reduced to this...

And to think someone was paid to generate that list (or to pull it out of some markedly unsunny orifice).

Biff Turkle | April 22, 06:08 CET

What an insult! How dare they put Buffy in the corner! I realize that this little bit of alliteration was the most clever title Bravo could come up with, but if we're going for the dumbed-down,cheesecake effect, why not include the beefcake and call it "Va-Va-Va Voom Heroes, Villains and Vixens? Doesn't that just trip off the tongue? Lameasses.

aver | April 22, 07:03 CET

Even though these top #10-100 shows that have a countdown for pretty much every category in entertainment are pretty much a case of "who gives a shit", I still find myself watching the damn things almost all the time. Let's look at the record. TV Guide's Top 50 shows: Buffy came in at #41. Bravo's top 100 TV characters: Buffy came in at #13. Bravo's 100 Scariest Movie Moments: Obviously Buffy the Movie wasn't on this one but it still featured interviews from Amber Benson(Tara) and Juilett Landou(Drusilla).

And now we have Bravos top 20 Heroes, Villians, and Vixens. Notice how these list are pretty much all on Bravo. Even though these shows are pointless to pretty much anyone who has a life I still find myself continuously watching every damn one that they show. I guess it's cuase I just want to see where my favorites come in, and since they won't say which spo Buffy is in on the vixens list I guess I'm gonna have to watch that one too. At least it'll keep me busy late at night.

P.S. Where the hell is Angel on the heroes list. Now that's what pisses me off the most.

SpikeBad | April 22, 07:23 CET

I've watched some of these too SpikeBad, just because of Buffy and wanting to see where the show shows up. That said, I think everyone is just pissed because of how it's presented. The men are heroes and women are vixens? I guess they (Bravo) think that is somehow a compliment and that they think the word "Vixen" equals/means female superhero but it seems really sexist and it isn't the same thing at all.

Firefly Flanatic | April 22, 07:28 CET

Bravo's address:

Bravo Viewer Relations
c/o NBC Entertainment
3000 W. Alameda Ave.
Burbank, CA 91523

Of course, we all know letters are better than emails... but they do have an online "Contact" page as well: http://www.bravotv.com/Contact_Us/

I intend to write them a letter stating how happy I've been overall with their programming and the role models it offers, but how disappointed I am with their choice to limit "superheroes" to men (except for the female members of The Incredibles, X-Men, and The Fantastic Four) and lumping all women together as "vixens."

It's worth noting that all the supervillains they have listed are men as well (with the exception, again, of the few female "James Bond Villains"). I suspect the reason for all this is the overall male-to-female character ratio in SFF/comics, but I for one would rather have seen two "Top 30" countdowns with male and female characters mixed in both the Superheroes and Supervillains list.

Bravo produce very little of their own programming, so writing to them at all may be an exercise in futility, but the feminist (and geek) in me just can't let this one lie.

starlady | April 22, 07:28 CET

Oh ya know it's gonna be Catwoman. It's just to painfull to think about. *bangs head again in frustration* *ouch*

nixygirl | April 22, 07:29 CET

You know Firefly_Flanatic, I bet it's becuase that there are so many great female superheroes that they just had to put them in a category of there own. They probably should have used Heroin instead of Vixen, but speaking for every guy out there, Vixen just sounds sexier. And in TV sex sells so Bravo went with the title that would most likely lead to more viewers. I know it's shallow but that's just what we men are...shallow. By the way, you can put any busty female in a tight leather outfit and she'd instantly be a superhero to me. Yeah, Git-R-Done!

SpikeBad | April 22, 07:44 CET

Your probably right SpikeBad. They could've called them "Super Chics", "Heroine Hotties", "Butt Kicking Babes", "Fabulous Female Fighters", well you get my point (with tongue firmly implanted in cheek)!

I'll probably watch it regardless. Any mention of Buffy is always great publicity for the verse (and hopefully encourages people who haven't seen the show to give it a chance).

And yes, where the heck is Angel on that list!?

[ edited by Firefly Flanatic on 2005-04-22 06:30 ]

Firefly Flanatic | April 22, 07:50 CET

They probably should have used Heroin instead..

:o

I don't think you should be encouraging that sort of behavior in front of minors.. *is deeply shocked*

Bad Kitty | April 22, 10:05 CET

Yes, I think they should have used *lots* of heroin. A rash of drug-related deaths among W&H t.v. executives would just make me...happy. Does that mean I'm a sociopath?

dreamlogic | April 22, 10:26 CET

dreamlogic - yes it does, but you're not the only one so at least you're a sociopath in good company (not that that really interests you, what with being sociopathic and all!)

catalyst2 | April 22, 10:30 CET

The film geek in me can’t help but think that this is really a homage to Russ Meyer’s vixens. Quite a few of his films are being re-released again currently, at least here in the UK. You haven’t lived if you haven’t seen at least one of these: Vixen, Super Vixens, Ultra Vixens or, still my personal favourite, Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill!

Classics of their kind and so super ultra bad, some of them are actually quite good again. Kinda how I imagine Joss would direct if he ever was on a really bad acid trip :) Plus proof that big boobs can kill. What more do you want?

miranda | April 22, 12:03 CET

miranda - Xander (or is that really Joss) also knows these movies - he riffs off "Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill!" in Passion when he realises Giles is trying to kill Angel.

catalyst2 | April 22, 16:35 CET

Thanks for the info. I don’t remember that (love trivia like that), now I have to get the relevant episode out and watch it. That Xander would be a Meyer fan does not surprise me (adolescent, really big breasts, figures), but Joss… well, obviously he would have watched it for the artistic value ;)

miranda | April 22, 17:37 CET

Allyson, I had the exact same reaction. As a "practicing" feminist I'm disgusted by the "vixen" reference. The catergories should have simply been male and female superheroes. Yes, Buffy and the other women characters are sexy and I think that's great but using the term vixen implies their sex appeal is what made them interesting.

Reddygirl | April 23, 21:55 CET