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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I'm Kiki. I don't know how I got here, I sorta don't care... am I drunk?"
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April 30 2005

Michelle Trachtenberg's "Mysterious Skin" gets an NC-17. The director plans to appeal to the MPAA to get an "R" instead. Link to IMDB page.

Whoa, our little Dawnie is growing up. The more I read about this movie, the more I wish to see it. Michelle has really kept her nose to the grind stone since BtVS. I haven't the opportunely to watch any of her films, but I noted the reviews were more in the positive. Good luck to Michelle. (BTW, is the term "Break a leg" reserved for stageplay actors or is it OK all around?)
Wow, aside from this movie, I was looking at some of the subjects in the forums for this morvie (and without starting a huge massive war, which i feel I may be inviting), but are people in America really this.....(and i quote from one of the repliers) "stupid, ignorant, rude, annoying, close-minded, predictable, ridiculous, pathetic, and degenerate" when it comes to homosexuality?

I dont want to begin a massive fight on this contentious issue, but I guess I think of Whedonesque to be a place where we can discuss this pretty much without resorting to childish insults

However if this topic is too contreversial or will cause some kind of arguement, then its cool if the mods stop this. :)
Yes, speaking as an American, many people I know are those things when it comes to homosexuality. In fact, majority of Americans are.
I want to see this movie though.
Yep. They are.
Someday, when I'm good and mad about something, I'll treat you all to my "nation of pinheads" theory.

(Of course, I love my country. I just wish we would collectively stop acting like 5th season Dawn and screaming "Get out! Get out! Get out!" at the rest of the world, and anything that conflicts with our small zone of comfort.)
"Are Americans insult A, insult B, insult C, insult D, insult E, insult F....?"

Then you try to claim the high ground with, "I don't want to start an argument which might result in childish insults."

Sure.

To respond without resorting as you did with a variety of insults, childish or otherwise, I would say that the subject of homosexuality is quite touchy in America right now. America does seem to be moving in what I believe to be the right direction, with more acceptance of homosexuality every year.
Bobster - ROFL! GetoutgetoutgetoutgetOUT!

And Apocalypse - Not all. It's really a pretty even split, though even those who don't condemn it are usually fairly ignorant of it. But it's getting better. Slowly.
I'm gonna say yes to the adjectives, but I do agree with Rkayn that we are slowly but surely moving in the other direction. Hopefully one day I can look back on this period as my parents look back on the civil rights era of the 60's. 'This was actually something people had to fight for/about?!'
I really want to see this movie, but i don´t know any release date here in Spain.
You´re lucky :(
It's about time a Gregg Araki movie gets a wide release, and this sounds like it should be the one. Fuck the prudish censors.
I wouldn't judge a country by posts made by its citizens on IMDB. IMDB, which BTW started in Britain and is still based in Cardif, has boards where I really think they employ people to post provocative stuff to keep the boards lively.
Kris - this is a wide release? Really? From the discussion at IMDB, I was under the impression that this, too, is limited.
Right now, the movie is only playing at 1 theather in New York City. (courtesy of Box Office Mojo's news letter)
The movie gets a limited release next weekend, according to Yahoo Movies.
I just meant that it's way past time an Araki movie should get a wide release, sorry for the confusion. You don't usually have a somewhat well known indie director staying indie and arguably successful for this long without breaking into the mainstream.
Apocalypse, Of course there are people like that in America, lots of them. Unfortuantely there are also a lot of them in other countries as well. A lot of other countries...

It seems to be getting better in a one step forward, pulled back before you can put weight on it, 3/4 step back, good shove forward before you can catch your balance, sort of way.
Apocalypse, for the most part....yep. It would be nice to say that things are getting better. I really thought they were, but then the whole gay marriage thing happened. Now IMO we are taking some steps backwards. Not quite where we were when the AIDS epidemic was spreading in the early 80s, but close. I would love to go further into detail about how our nation's leaders aren't helping the situation at all, but I really don't feel like getting into a political war with anybody today.
Well, I'm proud to be American. Just not so much when things like gay marriage raise the cacophony it did. Please. Just let people be. How does it hurt anyone at all if two people of the same sex love each other and want to get married? Speaking as a wholly hetero female, this reallly bugged.

I blame George Bush. In fact, I blame George Bush for everything backward in this country.

No offense, ChrisinVirginia, or any other Bush backer here. And I'm not singling out Whedonesquers, only the guy who's putting fundamentalist religion into our nation's politics. Great idea, there, dub.
Thanks very much for everyone's feedback. It was all appreciated.

ryafkyn, the insults that were posted in my post, were a direct lift off from one of the IDMB posters. They were not supposed to cause any offence, and I apologise if anyone did find then insulting in any way

The first time my mind was opened up to this issue was a couple of years ago. I had never really heard anything much about the issue of homosexuality in the USA, but then i had never really tried to find out. It was only after watching an episode of 'Six Feet Under', that I got an idea of what it could be like. The episodes weekly eath was of a gay man. Two straight men, beat him to death, becuase he was gay. However it was the funeral scene that really opened my eyes. As the man's funeral was taking place, 20 or so men and women, stood outside watching. They had signs with them saying "Fags go to Hell", and were shouting abuse at the dead man, and his family. I couldnt actually believe that people would be able to this, I hadnt really seen anything like it before. It may have only been television, but that episode opened my eyes up to a lot of things that I didnt know existed

As a British citizen, I have a lot of respect for Americans and their culture, but when I see comments about homosexuality being likened to necrophilia and bestiality, it makes my pretty much nuetral stance on America as a whole, turn a little bit red, even though in the back of my mind, I know that there are many people out there who are accepting and tolerant. But it's hard to be able to understand the hate; I find it hard to see, after living in Britain all my life, where most people, aside from the occasional burberry basher or skinhead, accept homosexuality, and in most cases if they do not agree with it, they tend to ignore it. Not to say there havent been gay crimes in this country, because there have, but on the whole .

I'm not a homosexual, but it says a lot to me, and makes me feel proud that on December the 5th, men who are in love with men, and women who are in love with women, will be able to get officially married. And it also says a lot to me, that i can come on here, and read the comments, and not be shouted at for being a 'fag defender', and be given mature, thoughtful and insightful opinions from the members of Whedonesque. So again, thanks guys for all your comments, they are really very much appreciated
Our country's getting better? Coulda fooled me. Anybody hear about this in the news this week? Take a look
here. The fact that this was even proposed makes me ill.
The bible has several gay characters, does he want to ban that too?
Ok it's getting way off topic here. Remember we do have a Flickr group for discussions like this.
Simon, your point is taken. It would be really great to continue on with this topic on Flickr, so I'll set up a thread for that over there :)
Sorry, Simon, for contributing to the OT-age **goes to sit in the corner and hangs head in shame.** But, in weak defense, I thought, in linking to the article re: the Alabama statesperson, but did not say, that this act would also have eliminated all Buffy materials from school libraries, because of the gay characters. But, you are right -- this is something that should move to Flickr.
Fundementalist religion has been a part of American politics for longer than I've been alive, so anyone trying to blame Bush for that is showing their ignorance.

BTW, the person behind that appalling scene at Matthew Shepard's funeral, the "Reverend" Fred Phelps, is a Democrat. In fact, when he ran for Governor of Kansas in 1998 he came in 2nd in the Democratic primary. Gore invited him to both his VP inaugurations. Thankfully Gore wasn't able to invite Phelps to his Presidential inauguration.

PS Where is this Flickr group?
rkayn - the link is on the home page right hand side and called The Library @ Flickr - underneath 'The Sitch'
rkayn, I tried to respond to you via email, but you don't have one listed in your profile.

If you find me "ignorant", that's too bad. I realize religion has been in politics since the Romans, and even before... but its been more subversive and clandestine in the past than right now. Bush uses the sickening phrase "family values" to espouse his own religious beliefs and personal agenda. Yes, he does. And as a result, our personal liberties are being threatened, the likes of which we haven't seen since the 60's.

If you'd like to continue this discussion, email me. My address is in my profile.
I had given my E-mail address when I signed up, but I guess I didn't notice the option to make it accessible or not. I've now checked it.

PS I didn't know being less subversive and clandestine was a bad thing. I'll skip addressing the rest of the rhetoric, this really isn't the place.
One thing to put some things in perspective that were brought up here before going to Flicker.

When comparing the USA to other countries, various things must be considered including size and history. The UK for instance, has approx. 59 million people in a space of 241,590 kilometers whereas the US has approx 296 million people spread over 5,692,955 kilometers. It is a very different environment.

The USA is also made up of more religious groups than most people can probably imagine. The US constitution and history have encouraged people that were not welcome in other countries to come here. Religious groups, often extreme religious groups, were instumental in settling the US from its earliest days. That has meant different things in different eras. It always means that that there will be people with every opinion you can name expressing their opinion...usually very loudly.

Legislators propose outrageous bills all the time. The telling thing is how they are received. The bill the story link was about was proposed in Alabama and allowed to die without a vote. That says it was a touchy subject for which there were not enough legislators who wanted to be on record as supporting to force anyone else to go on record and as voting against it. I would say that is probably progress in the deep South.

End of my comments on these subjects here.
The thread is now up at Flickr for anyone who wants to talk more about this. More feedback will be greatly appreciated.
When I ask that a debate be moved elsewhere I don't expect people to carry on with it after I post. So I'm giving people a heads up, if happens again your posts will be deleted.

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