For give me for being naive, but isn't it "schedule"?

CG-Realms | May 18, 00:22 CET

Damn! I thought I spelled it wrong. There are just some words that I always mispell.

SpikeBad | May 18, 00:36 CET

I think "The Bedford Diaries" and "Pepper Dennis" sound interesting. But I'll pass on most of this crap.

On a side note, I've decided that I'm actually going to check out tonight's episode of "Gilmore Girls". It's something I've always dismissed as a show that seems like it's not for me, but after reading Robert Bianco's 3.5-star review in U.S.A. Today, and hearing TV Guide critic Matt Roush call it "a four-star masterpiece," I figure it's about time I actually give it a shot. So good luck to it. I'm hoping it'll impress me.

Invisible Green | May 18, 00:46 CET

Bedford Diaries: "college students tied together by a class on human sexuality."

So, some sort of practical experiment then...? Sounds kinky!

zz9 | May 18, 01:21 CET

Just wondering, but since when, except with fans, has the Spike talk ever been anything more then a tv movie? Did not JM even confirm it would be only for a movie and never as a series? Herc must be confused.

I think Supernatural sounds interesting. Jensen Ackels seems to be the WB's new boy toy.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 01:21 CET

I think a Spike series was wishful thinking by Herc. There's just been talk about a tv movie. And that's about it really.

Simon | May 18, 01:24 CET

Although this is pretty unrelated, I'm pretty bummed that Alias was moved to Thurday nights, thus breaking the Abrams Wednesday nights. I'm kinda worried about that move since I think Alias got a lot of its ratings from Lost.

BlindHawkeyes | May 18, 01:30 CET

I think that this is a scary move, especially with JG's pregnancy and how they will have to write next year. It will be a intresting to what happens to both Alias and Smallville next year. One show had a great season, the other had no clue what it was doing.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 01:33 CET

I'm worried about both Smallville and Alias. So their not gonna bring Alias in at midpoint and run through the finale with no repeats like this year?? I guess theres no need to do that anymore considering that Alias no longer has the same type of long story arc like days past.

[ edited by Gunn 2 N's on 2005-05-17 23:43 ]

Gunn 2 N's | May 18, 01:40 CET

It looks like Herc is saying Janollari actually commented on a Spike SERIES. Or am I misunderstanding Herc's colorful way of speaking? If Janollari did, it seems odd because as a Spike fan I've been pushing for a Spike TELEMOVIE since that is what both Joss and James seem open to doing, plus the WB even mentioned the possibility of doing telemovies after cancelling ANGEL - a bunch of hooey on their part, but they still said it. So now I'm really curious about what was actually said at the upfronts and the context in which this comment about a series was made. I'm going to email Herc for clarification - if you want, you can too: herculesaicn@yahoo.com

killinj | May 18, 02:16 CET

I took this to be Herc's own thoughts. But who knows. The Wb has been less then upfront on any spike talk. Much less anything else in the verse.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 02:23 CET

They renewed Smallville ? Damn, guess I'll be ensnared by it for another year.

This is what happens when there're nearly no good genre shows to watch, I turn to stuff like Smallville and Enterprise (which had a number of good episodes peppered throughout its seasons, but not enough to justify the show being around for four seasons. Completely undeserved. And did anyone see that finale? I loved The Next Generation, as a pre-teen it was my first live-action sci-fi show I'd ever seen and my first glimpse at a fandom...but I hated how Berman and Braga hijacked Enterprise's last episode with goddamn Riker and Troi).

There're a number of great dramas and a couple of comedies out there, they keep me satisfied for TV viewing. There're also a few cancelled-before-their-time types of series and some generally well-regarded sci-fi that I still want to see on DVD (couple more seasons of Babylon 5 to go, plus the entirety of Farscape...Miracles, the rest of Wonderfalls, Profit, etc). We just don't have any worthwhile new genre shows (okay aside from, potentially, Lost...and I haven't checked out Medium but it doesn't look like my flavor).

Kris | May 18, 02:57 CET

Kris - don't bother with Medium. I gave it several chances, because it's got a great premise, but the show itself is downright awful.

Daromaius | May 18, 03:13 CET

I really enjoy meduim. I think it's a taster's choice.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 03:15 CET

Huh. Fair enough that you feel that way Daromaius, but I think it's quite good. On first glance, you don't notice just how well Patricia Arguette acts in the role, until it dawns on you that you don't notice because she's so damn effortless about it, it doesn't look like she's acting at all.

It's also nice to watch how her particular talent effects the family dynamic. Instead of really focusing on her "gift" - the show focuses on how she, and those around her, live with her gift.

If it's not your flavor, it's not your flavor, I just think it's never a bad thing to find out for oneself, rather than take the opinions of others (pro or con) frankly.

I mean, Buffy didn't look or sound like my flavor initally. I am an idiot, I know.

Angela | May 18, 03:19 CET

I hope they release the first season of Battlestar Galactica on DVD after all the episodes have aired -- or at least have some marathons scheduled so I can get caught up on what's going on. That's the only thing from the sci fi/fantasy genre that I thought was good this year. Unfortunately, I missed too many episodes. Medium is, eh, if I have nothing else to do. Lost failed to grab me. I know lots of people love it, but it doesn't fill the genre void for me. :(

killinj | May 18, 03:26 CET

Even more reasons not to watch the WB. Thanks, Mr. Janollari!

I will admit, however, that I haven't been completely successful in weaning myself from my Gilmore Girls habit. I felt the series was running out of gas last year, which put me on the verge of chucking it because of the whole Angel thing, but then they had to go and have themselves a creative renaissance this season. It's been excellent, with a number of "huh?!" and "dang!" moments scattered throughout and lots of rewards for longtime watchers (while managing to still be accessible if you aren't). I think it's easily the best show on that otherwise useless network. Invisible Green, I hope, in spite of myself, that it manages to hook you ;)

Wiseblood | May 18, 03:29 CET

My wife and I really like Medium too.

Jinxieman | May 18, 03:56 CET

Never know what if we get a midseason replacement for a show, and it's a Joss show, Faith show with Spike co starring!, Buffy season one was 12 episodes.

SeanValen | May 18, 03:59 CET

I am SO PISSED that WB and ABC have schedule Alias and Smallville against each other on thursdays. Because OC is on at that time (for now) so if I have to choose between the 3, goodbye Smallville.

eddy | May 18, 04:45 CET

The tv series MEDIUM is one of few precious gems in this past season. I highly recommend it.

Kris: "...I hated how Berman and Braga hijacked Enterprise's last episode with goddamn Riker and Troi."

Berman was trying to relate Enterprise to Roddenberry's STNG. The Enterprise series finale was Berman's last defense argument against the accusations from inconsolable, embittered, and disillusioned Star Trek fans. Many of which may not even call themselves fans anymore.

One of the major arguments of Enterprise, Voyager, and to a lesser extent DS9, was that Berman's spinoffs post-Roddenberry have steered so far afield of the original Star Trek Vision as to be unrelated. Also, the time wars storylines in Voyager and Enterprise suggested that Berman was completely rewriting Roddenberry timeline future history. Berman was attempting to alleviate that, by showing how the Enterprise tv series coincides adroitly with Roddenberry's STNG. He even had Riker mention Kirk offhand, insuring that all five tv series coincide peacefully, despite what diehard fans can see with their own two eyes.

Soon after Roddenberry's death, Berman and Braga took the helm of the franchise, and they have successfully run it into the ground, by doing all the things that they KNOW Roddenberry would have said no to doing. They thought they were improving the franchise, but as the truth wills out, we see all they did was turn a great and original universe for endless storytelling into just another crappy piece of junk on television. And we have more than enough of that. Until corporate mentality finds a way to step back and allow the original Roddenberry Vision to be realized again, there will never be another successful television series based on that franchise.

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2005-05-18 02:50 ]

Oh. On to the topic at hand...

I don't watch 7th Heaven, Gilmore Girls, or Everwood because I find them to be glorified prime time soap operas catering to young women. I gave each of them a couple few episodes looksee, scoffed, and then never looked back.

I don't watch legal dramas, especially when they're so generically labelled as to be "Just Legal." Likewise, a supernatural thriller titled "Supernatural" thriller does not incite much excitement. I prefer DelMonte to generic storebrand canned goods. Don't know why, but I do. Same goes with my television programming. "Related" and "Twins" sound similarly generically bland. It's like networks aren't even trying anymore.

I have made an effort never to watch One Tree Hill, What I Like About You, Reba, Living With Fran, The Mountain or Summerland. Reading the premise and watching the teaser commercials were in most cases more than enough to make me want to throw my television out the nearest window. I go through more televisions that way.

When I heard Marsters was going to show up on The Mountain, I did make an effort to catch that, but couldn't time it right. It was like accidently catching Veronica Mars episodes without Alyson Hannigan in them. Yuck.

Smallville started off rocky, found its stride, and made great progress until the premature ejaculation of Lois Lane. They shot their wad too soon. It's game over.

Blue Collar TV is funny in the same way that a retarded person watching another retarded person accidently fall into a well might be funny to yet another retarded person. I watched enough episodes to feel like a guilty retarded person. I try to avoid it now.

The Green Screen Show was a great idea that was far too rushed in post production. Naturally, it was cancelled almost before it could get broadcast.

I have never watched Jack & Bobby because I found the premise insulting. I'm glad to see it's cancelled. One of the few times when my opinion and the ratings actually matched. So it looks like starting this fall I can do for WB what I've been doing for FOX, which is to IGNORE the network and pretend it doesn't exist. Let me know if they ever do the Spike telemovie. Beyond that I could care less if I never hear about that network again.

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2005-05-18 03:21 ]

ZachsMind | May 18, 04:49 CET

Agree with you about Medium -- one of the few things to watch this year.

And Smallville was renewed? I pity the poor b*st*rd who has to recap it over at TelevisionWithoutPity...

bookrats | May 18, 05:08 CET

There are no JW shows scheduled for midseason or even being discussed.The wb has to shows here it is keeping to mid and likly more reality. To my knowledge it has only ever been a tv movie even talked about. We still do not know if the relationship with Joss and the wb ever smoothed out, but the Fox(studio) and wb one seems strained at best.

Has not Alias and Smallville been against each other this year too? And we don't know if Fox will leave the O.C. on thursdays.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 05:35 CET

Joss hasn't mentioned a Spike spinoff, but he did mention being interested in doing a Faith spinoff at the Kerry fundraiser back in October.

20th Century Fox and The WB were squabbling over Reba's licensing fees. But it doesn't seem to have affected their relationship, since Pepper Dennis and Misconceptions are both 20th Century Fox shows.

FaithFan | May 18, 05:40 CET

Fox would never move the OC cause it has generated the highest ratings for that time slot for FOX in like 5 years. Alias is on at 9pm and Smallville an hour earlier at 8pm this year.

I personally think that Lois Lane is the best thing that happened to Smallville. I am so tired of Lana and Cloe it was nice to have a fresh face banter with Clark and not be in love with him.

Gunn 2 N's | May 18, 05:44 CET

Um... opinionated much? :) Zach, I think you should definitely give "Gilmore Girls" another chance, go out and rent the DVDs! I've been catching up on the DVD sets and I'm surprised to find that it is an often brilliant piece of television. Great stuff.

Knuckleball | May 18, 05:45 CET

No, Falen. Alias was on at 9 and Smallville was on at 8. Smallville was against Lost where it got crushed so it makes sense to move it, but boy is Thursdays at 8 a tough timeslot.

eddy | May 18, 05:52 CET

I loved lois too. Honestly she is the only reason, besides Pa kent, I have even continued after the mangeling of the mythos.

Really since Friends is gone and aside from Survivor, Thursdays at 8 is a good time slot. So I think Alias could flurish, if given a good arc. Smallville has been dropping in the ratings, But the O.C. which is nothing more then a gulty pleasure, has done rather well.

I wonder if Fox will say anything about what both Tvguide and the producer of That 70's show said about ED joining the cast for a few eps, on Thursday.

They may have ironed out things for these shows, but it sure sounded like there was alot of nasty over the weekend and that could continue. Office politics and all that.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 05:56 CET

"Forget that, how about a series where you just see Joss Whedon on screen and you can worship him for a full hour?"

I'm for that idea.

RpgActioN | May 18, 06:12 CET

Adam_tvs: "opinionated much?"

Very. And gorram proud of it. =) At best, Gilmore Girls is about cute girls and who they are or are not dating. If I'M not the one dating someone who looks like Lauren Graham, I could care less who she is dating.

In other news, Whedon's made it clear he's given up on the television medium for now. We need to give up hope he'll return to the small screen, at least until some drastic changes are made to who controls the purse strings and makes the big decisions. This recent lameness called the WB fall lineup now is indicative of why Whedon left for the big screen. There's no place for a talent like Whedon in such a small pond as TV.

I tolerated the mangling of the Superman mythos up until Lois. While I didn't agree with the liberties taken, I thought they were doing good things with it. Particularly the stuff going on with the Kent parents and with Luthor. That was far more interesting than Clark Kent himself. Chloe and Lana were bearable to me. They didn't need to bring in a new female character though. They just needed to write Chloe and Lana better. I felt they'd made progress in the second season. I haven't watched any Smallville though since the three girls were taken over or possessed by the souls of witches, thus turning Smallville into a Charmed ripoff for an episode. Bleargh. I then recall seeing a teaser commercial about the first appearance of Krypto. That's just way past jumping the shark, far as I'm concerned.

As for a Spike telepic, at this point I'd rather see James Marsters get a series vehicle like Dushku got Tru Calling. I think Marsters would do well to play a character who's not Spike, but in a present day world that's got unique magicks and surprises to discover. He's strong enough to carry a series, with the right supporting ensemble, if someone would give him a chance.

ZachsMind | May 18, 06:16 CET

I could not but help to get stupidly giddy over Krypto, of course they then destroyed even that. There is just to many problems with smallville to enjoy.

Charmed,I would have watched the finale out of resepct for the show's early years, and hope for a Shannon Doherty appearance.

I agree I think Jm should leave Spike on the small screen and if he wants to ever reprise it wait for a big movie. He needs to distance himself so not to get typcast.

I think Whedon will have his hands very full with Wondy and Serinty.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 06:27 CET

I felt a vague twinge of disappointment when reading that Alias and Smallville would be opposite each other. Then I remembered that I don't really care for either, anymore.

I think that Lois was the least of Smallville's problems. It was always a horribly written show, being run by people who appear to be incapable of remembering what happened on the show the previous week, much less the season before. I thought season three had episodes that were absolutely stellar, but it was because they were letting the Luthor storylines pretty much dominate parts of the season. But this season completely downplayed them, and I finally quit watching as the show hyped lesbian kisses and had a Very Special episode on teen sex complete with PSA. And Alias pretty much disregarded all of the questions raised last year - just because the season wasn't popular isn't cause to literally pretend that none of the plot points in the previous season no longer exist. Now, the show has simply resorted to rehashing old plots from its first two seasons. The complete disregard for continuity just reads like a slap in the face to fans, and I really miss that kind of respect for the viewers. The Whedonverse always handled the issue of continuity gracefully, rewarding fans for watching the show for so long. Veronica Mars has also done an excellent job on continuity as well (sometimes on such staggeringly tiny details that I haven't noticed until watching an episode for the fifth or sixth time).

But overall, I miss having more clever TV on the air. I'm loving Veronica Mars just as much as I loved the Whedonverse, and I still watch Gilmore Girls (even though I think it's been sorely lacking these past two years, it's still fun and well-written)...but on the whole, I miss having snappily-written shows with good characters with heart to them. Joss' shows made all of that look so easy, but it's just unbelievably rare for shows to be capable of that. And looking at the fall pickups and seeing very few shows that sound engaging, what saddens me is that nobody really seems to be trying to do that, either.

meimi | May 18, 06:53 CET

Really Medium is very clever in it's writing. And the Dynamic between her husband and her is very good. Give it a whirl.

Other good shows are Battlestar which has steller writing, Law and Order SVU, Desperate Housewives, Crossing Jordan and even the O.C. which got better as the season went on.

I too liked last season of Alias better. I hate when the bad guy is suddenly trusted by the good guys for some lame reason. I always think of Spaceballs then: "Evil will always win because good is dumb"

I think Both Kitchen and Bones sound intresting. And The jury is out on Supernatural.

I think the Buffyverse also suffered from bad continuity issues as well. Most notably is season 4 of Angel and 7 of Buffy.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 07:10 CET

ZachsMind, start from the beginning with the Gilmore Girls, because it has much more going for it than your description. Pick up the first few disks from a rental place, you'll find it has strong writing, solid performances, and a good deal of depth.

herb | May 18, 07:13 CET

If this is the WB's final schedule, does this mean that Sean Maher's new show was not picked up?

I'm still holding out for it as a mid-season replacement.

Aurra | May 18, 07:41 CET

"Evil will always win because good is dumb"...yes, that should absolutely be Sloane's motto. I enjoy the character, but the CIA cutting him so much slack is ridiculous (last year they sentenced him to death, this year he's running a whole black ops department?!). Then again, this is the same CIA that devotes tax dollars to buying its top agent thousand-dollar wigs and the cutest lingerie that money can buy, so I realize I shouldn't have any expectations placed on their intelligence whatsoever.

S4 of Angel and S7 of Buffy are both my least favorite seasons of each show. S7 was, I thought, especially sloppy in spots in terms of continuity. But that's up against the standards of the other seasons. Compared to other shows, they were still packing in more of the things I appreciated. I don't mind a few continuity problems from time to time, if the bar is still set high for writing and acting. The Whedonverse was always aiming to make some kind of worthwhile statement with its shows. Most other television shows don't even attempt to mean anything, which means I come down on them a lot harder as a viewer. What I'm getting at, I guess, is that I'd like to see more shows with heart and meaning to them. But as those are in short supply, I'd prefer to see the other shows on the air make the slightest effort to remember what happened in the episode two weeks ago.

I am looking forward to The Inside, as it looks like it has no choice but to be stellar with such an amazing team behind it. And for next year, I'm excited about Kitchen Confidential (but I'll admit, my excitement is pretty much fuelled by shallow adoration for Bradley Cooper). But obviously, there could be a show in the mix that turns out to be absolutely fantastic, despite a silly-sounding premise. I didn't know how great a show about a SoCal teen girl fighting vampires could be until I watched it, after all.

meimi | May 18, 07:44 CET

meimi, I heartily agree with you! Once the end of last May rolled around, I took a look at what television shows were out there and I realized that it was time to just turn the gorram thing off. Buffy ended the year before, Firefly was unjustly cancelled (I was still bitter about that then and still am!), Wonderfalls had also been canned and Angel was over - really, what else is there (for me, at least)? I've been tv-free since and I don't feel the least bit bad about it, mainly because I know I've always got my DVDs, Serenity and all its related entities (hello, comics and books!) and this wonderful place. I'm content :-)

gorramit | May 18, 07:59 CET

I second that Gilmore Girls recommendation. I used to watch a handful of episodes here and there, but I could never quite "get it". Until I checked the first season on DVD from the library and watched it from the start. Now I get it. The town is full of all these really weird and eccenteric characters. I like shows like that. Kind of like Northern Exposure but a bit more whimsical, and in a tiny Connecticut town instead of Alaska.

I've missed most of seasons 3-4, but I've been sort of keeping up with this season, and I just watched the last 10 minutes of the season finale (I forgot it was on!), and oh my god. I was in for a shock. I have never seen Lorellei look that way. It was a fine performance. They're really shaking things up on that show. I love it when that happens. It's really exciting.

Other than GG and sometimes Everwood, I have no use for WB. When Angel was on, it was the only network I watch. Now I watch ABC mostly (I really only watch broadcast TV 2 or 3 nights a week anyway). WB is barely on my radar.

I'm miffed about the Alias move. Damn, they're messing up my Wacky Wednesdays! I don't like this at all. And they moved up Lost to 9pm, right? Does that mean now we'll finally see somebody get it on in the sexier timeslot? I can't believe nobody's had sex on that cursed island yet.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-05-18 06:34 ]

electricspacegirl | May 18, 08:29 CET

For those that are interested in the Spike tv movie, here's the latest from TV Guide's Ausiello:



The link to his column contains spoilers for US shows btw.

Simon | May 18, 11:05 CET

Why not just say what he knows. That is annoying. Makes me think maybe herc was more on target? I doubt anyone cares about the actual wording, but more to the fact is anything happening.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 11:09 CET

Given that this is the week of the US networks' line ups, he must be pretty pressed for time. More than likely, we'll get some vague non committal remark from Janollari.

Simon | May 18, 11:19 CET

I was thinking the same thing. More we value you watching, and we are still researching. But once again really nothing. Wb is really good at saying everything and nothing.

I tend to think that with Serinity getting closer and him working on Wondy, that a spike tv movie is not a main thing, a consideration, but really more backburner.

FalenAnjl | May 18, 11:23 CET

I'll consider ordering the first disc of the first season of Gilmore Girls via NetFlix based on y'all's recommendation, but I don't see how this is to my benefit because 1) If I end up being proven wrong and it IS good, it means I have to eat crow again and I hate doing that, and 2) If I end up being proven right and it does suck, I will have wasted those hours of my life watching said disc and will want them back. As I said though, I will take it under serious consideration.

I wasn't more than a passing fan of BtVS until season six (still my favorite), then went back and watched all the episodes I missed in first run and became a diehard fan. I had only watched episodes in first run that had Seth Green in them, cuz I thought Oz was cool, and when he left the show so did I.

I happily ate crow that time, but I don't like making a habit of it.

ZachsMind | May 18, 14:16 CET

Could someone point out the continuity errors of S7 for me? I just can't see them - aside from Willow hopping over to LA and witchin' it up, then coming back to be terrified of magic. That was a biggie. But aside from that, I thought S7 was fairly cohesive.

And if people like Medium, I'm glad. I just can't stand Patricia Arquette, or any of the cast for that matter, excepting the middle daughter. I think the writing is awful. I hate the dynamic between her and her husband. And I held out for more than half a season, and just wasn't impressed. I thought they had one or two solid episodes, but otherwise? Just... ick. Not so shiny.

For the record, just glancing at that line-up makes me want to smack Janollari. I don't have a business degree and even I could tell you that breaking up Abrams' Wednesdays is going to cost them. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, people.

Daromaius | May 18, 18:01 CET

Sounds like Ausiello talked one on one with Janollari.

twiggy | May 18, 18:10 CET

For the record, just glancing at that line-up makes me want to smack Janollari. I don't have a business degree and even I could tell you that breaking up Abrams' Wednesdays is going to cost them. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, people.

Huh? I'm confused. What does Janollari have to do with breaking up Abrams' Wednesdays? Isn't he with the WB?
The only bummer for me about Alias moving is that (unless Fox changes around its schedule in the fall) Lost will now be at the same time as the Inside. Who knows yet if I'll love the Inside (or if it'll last), but it's one of the few shows that I'm excited about.

Add me to the list of people who only turn on the WB for the Gilmore Girls now. And Zach's Mind - it's SO much more than a show about who's dating whom. I feel the quality has gone down a bit from its early seasons, but it still has some great moments. The writing is some of the best (and wittiest) on television, and it almost never falls into the cliches that almost every other show with a similar premise does. I agree with ElectricSpaceGirl - I love Stars Hollow's eccentric characters. And I also love that the show has nuanced mother-daughter relationships and complex characters. I started watching the DVDs via Netflix, and highly recommend them. And I'm NOT a fan of prime-time soaps or teen melodramas.

acp | May 18, 19:04 CET

So, as I said I would, I watched my first ep of "Gilmore Girls" last night. I liked it, but I didn't love. The opening scene was hilarious - Lauren Graham is really funny. She deserves a best actress Emmy nom, though she's not gonna get one. The show has a very fresh, witty, quirky, and unique sense of humor, but sometimes the dialogue delivery often seems too unnaturally quick and quirky. And some of the actors, particularly the ones playing minor characters, delivered their lines in an annoyingly exaggerated sitcom-style manner. And the subplot with the band I didn't find interesting (or funny) at all.

I think it's one of those shows where you have to let it "soak in" first before you really "get" it. I'm pretty sure I would've liked this individual episode better if I had seen some previous episodes, so that I was familiar with the show's style and characters.

However, I don't see it as a "glorified teen soap" as ZachsMind called it, and - although I doubt I'll become a regular viewer - I'll probably check out some repeats if they air over the summer, or some new episodes in the fall.

Invisible Green | May 18, 22:01 CET

IGreen, the staccato delivery really threw me off at first. Then a friend pointed out that it was supposed to be that way. They're going for a "wacky, 40's screwball comedy" vibe. Kind of a "See here you, you crazy dame" thingy.

ETA: BUT, you'll notice that delivery really falls by the wayside when the big drama happens.

[ edited by Willowy on 2005-05-18 20:17 ]

Willowy | May 18, 22:16 CET

Just in S7, while I was watching I thought there were some fairly sloppy things. Like trying to figure out whether Anya was a demon or human after Selfless, I remember separate episodes indicating that both were true. Or how long it took them to get around to explaining why Spike's chip wasn't working under the First's control. Or how the Initiative was magically not filled in with cement. Plus the obviously poorly-handled continuity in both crossovers, where Willow was bizarrely cheery in L.A. and Angel looked so put-together after...um, all the events of S4. And, if you want to be picky, how the Ubervamp could kick the crap out of Buffy at first, but by the finale, even the potentials who'd barely ever been in a fight could beat them. Obviously these aren't huge, inexcusable errors, but combined with other aspects of S7 that were less than perfect, they really irked me.

And as for GG: I really have to reccomend the early seasons, the first two especially were absolutely amazing. I think there's been a lack of connection between the characters, and they've relied too much lately on wacky townie subplots (in particular Kirk has been really overused this year). But the writing is still absolutely fantastic, and Lauren Graham really does deserve an Emmy nod. It's a show that's far more about family rather than "who's dating who".

meimi | May 18, 23:31 CET

To add to Meimi's list of S7 continuity errors: slayer lineage was a big one. We had it drilled into our heads in earlier seasons that the reason Faith appeared was because Kendra was the carrier of the slayer line following Buffy's "death" in S1. Then, suddenly, all that got upended in S7, with Buffy continually talking (in her endless speeches) about how she would have to die in order for a new slayer to be chosen.
I had other issues with S7 beyond continuity problems, but that particular gaffe (along with the changing beatable-ness of the Ubervamps) bugged me.

acp | May 18, 23:41 CET

The whole spike in the basement, why was the first even intrested in him and yet never just killed him or made a real move. The first was this forever evil with no real story. One minute these things were strong enough to kick Buffy's ass the next week enough to be killed.Andrew, who slaughtered his friend, running around free and clear while Anya was basically called a murderer. The whole line thing was a big one. Faith and why she was there.Was she not the active line slayer? The willow magic thing.If she had to be sent to a coven and the magic this was not going to be okay(like a addict, you then don't give them what they have been trying to recover from only months after being clean), then asking her to be the savior was completely irresponsible. Then the whole slayer line and calling of all the slayers. There were so many problems with the story continuity in 7.

FalenAnjl | May 19, 00:00 CET

FalenAnjl, maybe I can help... The First was interested in Spike to manipulate him, perhaps drive him crazy enough to kill Buffy, whom it saw as the real threat.

They could later kick the Ubervamp and Bringer asses because they had fought them before. They learned from their mistakes.

Andrew was human (well, technically), and Anya was a demon. Buffy doesn't kill humans. On purpose.

Giles had told Willow that stopping magick cold turkey could be very detrimental to her, as well as dangerous. She was sent to the coven to get a strong hold and control over her powers, not to quit magick forever. She knew she was going to be called upon in this battle. She was nervous, but ready.

And personally, I thought the calling of all the Slayers was beautifully done, and an excellent note for the series to go out on. My pet peeve is one of the last scenes in Chosen, when Xander is all laissez-faire about Anya's death. Bugs the crap out of me. Still.

Guess that says how highly I regarded the season, when all I can find to gripe about is that minor thing (oh yeah...I also hate it when they kick Buffy out, but that's another discussion).

Willowy | May 19, 00:47 CET

Hard to think it saw Buffy as a real threat when caleb knocked her unconscious and still left her alive. The first tortured Spike but really never did much else and never did anything like even try to turn him on her. More like bore him and us to death.

The willow magic thing was as flawed as it was in season 6.

Death was treated way to easy and the calling of the slayers after all the years of seeing what it did to Buffy and having her moan about wanting a normal life was grossly unfair. Look at what it did to Dana.

The way Buffy treated Faith oppossed to how she treated Spike, Anya and especailly Andrew was horrible. She knew Faith was changing and trying yet Faith got little or no respect.And yes I liked the bedroom scene but it was a little too late. I still saw no reason for the character to leave Angel.

How did they learn from their mistakes? They would have all dies if not for the glowy amulet. The Bringers were kicking their asses.

But in all things what they did to Xander and the stupidness of blinding him really makes me boil.

Jut my thoughts though.

FalenAnjl | May 19, 01:10 CET

FalenAnjil, you've kinda moved on from the perceived continuity errors of Season 7 to things you didn't think worked or didn't personally care for. Fair enough, but that's not what Willowy was addressing.

I tend to believe we're supposed to be enraged by Xander's blinding, and put off by Buffy's treatment of Faith, perhaps to understand more clearly why the rest would kick Buffy out. And I simply disagree that the magic issue was flawed. I'm not sure what you mean by saying the calling of all the potential slayers was unfair. Unfair to whom? Certainly it didn't work out in Dana's case, but I don't see why that makes it unfair.

And you've gone from saying the ubervamps and Bringers were too weak at the end ("One minute these things were strong enough to kick Buffy's ass the next week enough to be killed") to saying that they were too strong. ("They would have all dies if not for the glowy amulet. The Bringers were kicking their asses.")

And finally, though this is unrelated to the substance, could you try harder to check your spelling and punctuation? Thanks. :)

SoddingNancyTribe | May 19, 01:40 CET

Falen, most of the things you point out are not continuity errors, but issues you have with the characters and situations. Which you're entitled to, of course, but they're disputable. I'm interested in what I keep hearing are the Big Damn Plotholes of the final season, and I've seen two or three solid ones raised.

As a side-note, blinding Xander was not stupid. You don't have to like it, but it was not stupid or poorly thought-out or without merit. It was permanent and emotionally damaging and completely ironic.

To address Meimi's points: I never had a problem figuring out Anya's human/demon status, and never even realized it was confusing. I thought she was human after Selfless the entire time - I'll have to go back and rewatch that part to find the ambiguity.

Or how long it took them to get around to explaining why Spike's chip wasn't working under the First's control.

That's not an incontinuity. It took rather long for us to learn why Buffy suddenly had a sister as well. The writers like to take their time. *shrug* Not saying it's necessarily masterful, but again - not a gripe with the plot.

The Initiative not being cemented over - valid. I also noticed that. The cross-over, I agree. Sloppy to the max.

Regarding the ubervamp, I subscribe to the theory that the first ubervamp the First sent up was a "champion" of sorts, therefore stronger than the others. This is flawed, of course, but any chance I can take to make my 'verse a little more cohesive... ;)

Daromaius | May 19, 01:41 CET

Like I said just my opinions of the continuity and problems. I found the thing with Xander, very wastful of the character. And then fastforwarded to get him into the fight. That kind of injury would have been enough to stay in the hospital for awhile and no way could he have faught or driven.

I think a big one was the spike in the basement,crazy but then not, the First's intrest in him, to me, made no sense. And was abig problem as the story went on.

I think the Slayer line issues were weird.

The writing of the giles/first thing and Giles sudden switches in behavior from ep to ep.

But maybe you are right and they are plot and not continuity.

FalenAnjl | May 19, 01:59 CET

You want to know why the first Ubervamp was so bad ass? It's because he was played by Camden Toy. That's why.

SpikeBad | May 19, 02:00 CET

LOL! I buy that!

FalenAnjl | May 19, 02:01 CET

I was always unsure as to Anya's status after Selfless. I was pretty sure that she was human, but then in Never Leave Me, Xander said, "She is a vengeance demon, you know." Granted, he was trying to scare Andrew, but it still left me feeling a bit fuzzy on the subject until it was firmly stated.

Also, I meant more like why it took several episodes for someone to even ask the question, "Hey, why isn't Spike's chip working?" and not so much the explanation of it, as I know that was a story for another episode. To me, it felt like they had just forgotten about it. But obviously this is straying into seriously nitpicky territory and isn't really a continuity issue, I agree.

As for the Ubervamp theory...well, that explanation is as good as any. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. ;)

meimi | May 19, 02:18 CET

I'd already had the Giles/First thing spoiled for me by the time I saw it, so I don't know if I would have reacted differently - but yeah, I thought it was lame. Joss was very proud of it, though, and apparently had that planned for years. ^_^;

SpikeBad - me love you long time.

Daromaius | May 19, 02:19 CET

I love you too Daromaius.

SpikeBad | May 19, 22:59 CET

There are a few points raised that I don't see as continuity issues at all.

1. The Initiative not being cemented in. Just because an order is given does not guarantee that it gets carried out.

2. The slayer line runs through Buffy. Faith had been away for a few years and it kind of slipped people's minds during a crisis. No big deal. But the writers let us know they still remembered toward the end (even if the characters didn't).

3. Spike's chip not firing under the First's control. It is perfectly believable that Spike's chip wouldn't fire or he wouldn't remember it if it had; he was under hypnosis. The part of his brain that sends or receives the message was unconscious, so no firing.

brownishcoat | May 24, 04:39 CET