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"I'm not on the ship. I'm in the ship. I am the ship."
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June 08 2005

Six reasons to watch "The Inside". From Hercules at aintitcool. Also Zap2it names The Inside as one of tonight's "TV best bets". (The discussion thread for tonight's premiere. Future episodes will be discussed over at our Flickr group - Simon).

Also, here's a mostly positive review from the Chicago Tribune.
I was surprised the NYTimes didn't have a review of it today.
So far the press seems to be a bit mixed, but I'm staying hopeful - and plan to give it more than a few episodes to win me over.
"and plan to give it more than a few episodes to win me over."

Absolutely. I know peolpe have said it before but I'll say it again, if I'd only seen the first ep of Buffy I'd have never been sold on it, it definitely took awhile to find it's footing!

[ edited by Grace on 2005-06-08 18:18 ]
Yeah, I think we'll use this as the discussion thread for tonight's premiere. Any other links to reviews, please post in here :).
There's a mixed review in the latest issue of the New Yorker. The Washington Post didn't cover the show's debut at all in today's paper, which I thought strange.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing Tim Minear et al strut their stuff tonight.
Ok, well, anyone who is down with James Ellroy is okay in my book. My hopes are a little higher now. I hope I'm not disappointed.
Also, if anyone is interested, Yahoo TV has the first four minutes up for online viewing, along with two other clips.
Oh heck, I'm sure it will get better. Point Pleasant was probably a lost cause anyway, but even it got better as the eps progressed.
“ Minear and Gordon have created a supposedly independent woman who is sought out for her skill, and yet in every one of the first three episodes she ends up being a damsel in distress, waiting for a knight in body armor to rescue her.”

I guess she won’t be getting compared to Buffy then. Or Veronica Mars. I am more than willing to give this a shot and let it develop, but if the lead is constantly going to be a victim, I’m not sure how many chances I’ll be willing to give it.

"Nichols, a former model, is obviously still finding her way as an actress; one wishes she'd do more than just hold her own in an unusually complicated role."

Oh, dear. That doesn't help matters.
Robert Bianco of the USA Today gave it 1 1/2 stars. He had pretty much the same thing to say. He says something like, "In the first epsiodes she gets the killer wrong twice and gets kidnapped 3 tmes".

He also says that there is too many cop shows. The problem I have with that argument is how come none of these TV critics spoke up about all the new cop shows that the networks are bringing in next year? This is a summer show and I can't name one cop show that airs during the summer.
Gunn 2 N's, Rescue Me almost falls into that genre, but it's different enough to stand on its own, imho.
but if the lead is constantly going to be a victim, I’m not sure how many chances I’ll be willing to give it.

The first three. I disagree with one of them characterizing her as a victim in an ep coming.

But these are rookie green mistakes, which is realistic, to me anyway. It's really her first field job out of Quantico and so she falls on her face a few times.
Its not realistic to be right about everything on a new job. That enters you into Mary Sue territory like the lead on Grey's Anatomy.
I'm not sure if this has already mentioned, but there are now cast interviews up at in "the Agency" section of the site.

Virgil's character already sounds interesting from those clips.
Well I'm looking forward to reading what everyone thought of the show. Any predictions for the ratings?
I say it gets 6 million. Can't hope for much during the summer.
I say probably a 4.4 rating of probably about 7 million viewers.
I actually thought it wasn't that bad. It was definitely a lot better than a lot of other premieres that have come about recently. It reminded me a lot of Angel, what with the city flashes between scenes, but it also had a similar storyline to that of "City of." I definitely see potential.
I liked it quite a lot, and I don't normally like cop shows. The characters seem interesting enough, acting was strong all around and the plot was pretty good, not great.

In terms of the violence, yah it was gory and such, but no more than is to be expected from a show that seems to be aiming for Silence of the Lambs, the series.

Based on the premiere, I'll be watching it, but I imagine feelings will be mixed overall.
eddy, can I get a "hey, yeah" about your Gray's Anatomy remark? Please.

From the previews, the ensemble cast and premise looked SO promising. Instead, we get Ally McBeal in a hospital. I was SO disappointed. Patrick Dempsey is a bright spot. Give him his own show and can this crap. Right now please.
Was that Allyson on the computer screen? (the...fourth victim I think?) Allyson who's a member of these boards and also a (I think) a columnist?

The Inside's premiere was very strong. Nevermind Silence of the Lambs (though with the skinning I can see why it reminded many of that), the vibe of some parts of this episode had me recalling Se7en much more strongly. I thought the cast was compelling enough, though the pilot is rarely enough to go on. Far far better cast than Point Pleasant's (I know it's gonna be common when the comments come rushing in, but I may as well also get my digs in at other post-Buffy/Angel projects by Mutant Enemy writers).

I'll stick around to see what comes of it.

[ edited by Kris on 2005-06-09 04:20 ]
I too felt the Seven vibe Kris, I think the tone of the show is very strong. With the team of writers on board, this seems like a sure thing. However, in terms of the types of TV I enjoy, I hope the characters evolve a bit more.

I don't just want a case of the week with the characters not growing, especially if it gets a second season.

[ edited by rabid on 2005-06-09 04:25 ]
Was that Allyson on the computer screen?

Gosh, I hope not. Someone will owe me a check. But yes, my full name is Allyson Beatrice, and Tim killed me.
I liked the show very much and thought that the critics got it wrong. The show is much more about what is going on, on the inside of the characters in this unit (as well as the inside of the "perp") then a police procedural. In the way Buffy used horror as a metaphor for the problems faced getting through high school, this FBI unit and their "serial killer" cases are in a sense a metaphor for finding out what is going on on the inside of people, determining who is a friend and who is a foe, who will help you and who will kill you. At least that is how I read the first episode. Also loved the look and feel of the show.
Ally McBeal? Hospital? What?

I thought it was very strong, substantially stronger in fact than the premieres of either Buffy or Angel. Whether the show has as much potential I couldn't tell you. I have no problem with the lead not being an action hero, or with her being wrong on occasion. The actress hasn't had much chance to show what she can do, so I can't comment on that yet. Come to think of it, neither has most of the cast, though Peter Coyote definitely owns his role.

The show could use more humor, but I like what I see so far. Except for the skinning and such.
I thought it was dandy, and it will surely get even better. Series (usually comedies) that shorthand character development are easier to feel comfortable with sooner. Serious character development takes longer.

Did everyone notice the "Wolfram Security" on the bad guy's shirt? And the girl who dropped the flower pot's "Lurk much?" was very Buffyesque.
I knew about the Wolfram Security, but I forgot to look for it. Apparently, there will be a very obvious Buffy shout-out in a later episode :) I liked it overall. I though the main girl was a much better actress than I assumed her to be from some reviews. I think it time she will get better. What I hate about Law and Order and things like that are that the characters (if you can even call them that) are all dead pan and serious. They get a case, solve it, and "dun dun" music appears before Wolf's name. These characters actually have emotions and personalities and that what I think seperates it from other shows out there. Can't wait for more!
"Wolfram Security"

Damn, I was so sure I would catch an Angel reference, which Tim said he would be putting in there in the first episode. Didn't see that though. There was almost enough of an Angel feel with the blipverts and how they didn't save the first living victim (blonde, naturally) that we're introduced to. It was very "City Of" in that.

Andarcel said:
"The actress hasn't had much chance to show what she can do, so I can't comment on that yet."

Yeah, anyone who complains about Rachel Nichols after only one episode is jumping the gun just a bit. Looking at the dialogue she was required to say and the events she needed to confront, I felt she believably conveyed how a young damaged woman would behave and react in that situation. The writers aren't going to give her an Emmy moment in the first episode, they're not going to have a big anger or sob scene. That would probably feel more than a little forced with the audience just introduced to these characters (though I say that being a fan of Six Feet Under, which featured a pretty sob-worthy and sob-filled pilot. But different subject matter, different feel than an FBI series, so the standards for what is and isn't appropriate for a premiere are different).
'Twas good and definitely had an Angel feel to it with the dark cinematography and L.A. cityscapes. The soundtrack music also reminded me of Angel. I liked it enough to watch the next episodes to see how it continues to unfold. However, I could've done without the graphic violence. I hope that all the crimes they solve aren't the icky serial killer, dismemberment types. As some of the reviews have said, we have enough of that type of thing on tv already.
Their workplace is the VCU (Violent Crimes Devision) of a Los Angeles branch of the FBI. I'm pretty sure nearly every episode is going to feature something graphic. I wouldn't label much of what was seen in tonight's episode as graphic violence, though we saw the results of that. Graphic gore, definitely. The body in the teaser freaked me out the most. That's some damn effective make-up/prosthetics work.
Isn't "Lurk much?" more than just "Buffyesque"? Doesn't someone ask Angel that very question? I think it was Cordelia in an episode of Angel, but my memory is a little fuzzy on that.

from Blood Ties (Season 5)

(Dawn climbs out her window and down the trellis. Once on the ground she turns around only to find Spike. She yelps in surprise.)

DAWN: Geez! Lurk much?

SPIKE: I wasn't lurking. I was standing about. It's a whole different vibe.


Should also mention I liked it alot and looking forward to more. Good cast, good dialogue, very intrigiuing characters.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-06-09 06:55 ]
Didn't really like the sickly blue/green/yellow lighting everywhere. Kinda made me nauseous. And the darkness of all the buildings they went into was very Blair Witch.

Still, if you'd like a helping of gore and grisly before bed, hey, this is your show.

I may watch again. See what happens. Hmmm. Don't really have a cohesive opinion right now, just feelings. However I thought the lead girl did fine. Thought it was pretty unrealistic that she'd be so young, blonde, attractive. Too typical (of Hollywood, not real life). Would have liked to have seen a more Scully-ish type. Oh well.
Thank you zeitgeist. I couldn't remember that for the life of me.
Andarcel, if you reread my previous comment, it'll become obvious that it was directed towards eddy and the show Gray's Anatomy. Not The Inside. See?
NP ShadowKatie, I'm always Johnny-on-the-spot with the BDB searching. ps- was told to check out Gray's, but given Willowy's description I think I'll not :P

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-06-09 06:58 ]
I liked it. Didnt love it but I liked it. It was slow moving in some spots but the acting was good, although not enough Adam and Katie. The plot could use some work but overall I give a two thumbs up.
I can't wait to see the ratings for this epiosde. I don't understand the summer release though. IF this was advertised and released in September in a good time slot, I think it could very easily get the mainstream audience.

[ edited by rabid on 2005-06-09 07:11 ]
Grey's Anatomy is a tough beast for me. I don't really like the lead but there are about 3 characters who I tune in for. If they are ever kicked to the background I'll probably stop watching.

Loved the first episode of The Inside. I got my friend to watch too and he dug it as well. Will be tuning in for more episodes. Peter Coyote was excellent as was Adam. And the guy who turned out to be the killer gave me the creeps. Good job, Tim.

I'm not going to judge the lead actress until I've seen more of her. The pilot didn't ask her to do anything that she failed horribly at(like the lead on PP) but that could change once her plot revs up so we'll see.

[ edited by eddy on 2005-06-09 07:13 ]
Jane Espenson is posting right now on the Inside official board on Prospero:
I liked it more than I thought I would, given some of the reviews. Peter Coyote had several awful lines (and not even necessary exposition like the couple of awful lines Ron Glass got in Firefly's "The Train Job"). But overall, I enjoyed it. I don't want gore (never wanted to see Silence of the Lambs), but with no lingering close-ups of gore or oozy stuff, I'll keep watching.

Nice Jayne-ish Adam Baldwin moment with the starting-to-peek-in-her-bags bit. I was disappointed that Katie Finneran didn't get anything funny to do, but there's still time.

Definitely worth more looks.

Willowy said:
Thought it was pretty unrealistic that she'd be so young, blonde, attractive. Too typical (of Hollywood, not real life). Would have liked to have seen a more Scully-ish type. Oh well.

I agree with you about the "too typical," but I don't see the difference with "Scully-ish." Peeking at, I see that at the time of filming their pilots, Gillian Anderson and Rachel Nichols were each 24 and each looked about 21 (and Scully had finished med school and Quantico?!). The only difference so far seems to be red hair vs. blond. :) Of course, we'll have to see how the Rebecca Locke character develops.

[ edited by Ying on 2005-06-09 07:24 ]
Well, wasn't blown away, but it's watchable. I'll give it a couple more eps to reel me in.

Sadly, Peter Coyote cannot deliver those offhanded remarks that I've come to expect from Whedon/Minear/etc shows. The lines were good, just not done well.

Not crazy about the female lead myself, she has that blandness and blahness that I feared.

And some things just didn't flow for me. The answers came a bit too easy in several instances, and I hate when people don't have to work for things. But I guess that's the nature of television, you can't spend too long figuring things out. Spoilers:

I can deal with that type of stuff if it's not consistently like that. If everything comes so easily to everyone, I think it won't hold my interest very long. I personally like shows(and movies) where you can trace things back and go, "God, it was RIGHT THERE!" This feels more like, "Just go with what the characters say..."

But like I said, I can spare a couple more Weds nights.

[ edited by Rogue Slayer on 2005-06-09 07:34 ]
ShadowKatie, the "Buffyesque" comment was intended to reference more than the specific "Lurks much" direct quote. There's also:

Xander says: "having issues much" in Ted.
Buffy says: "pathetic much" in Some Assembly Required.
Willow says: "Hey, respect the narrative flow much?" in Doublemeat Palace.

In fact, most all, if not all, Buffy episodes include the word "much" in one way or another.
I could only watch with one eye and half a brain as I was busy with stuff, but I taped it and I'll watch it again with my full attention. I liked the lead much more than I thought I would. I kept expecting her to be all ex-modely and she was credible to me as a very young, conflicted agent with a horrible past. Peter Coyote's character is eeeeeevil. Or at least he seems to be terribly manipulative in a harmful way. He hires these young troubled women, taps into their psychic pain and baggage and puts them in harm's way to hunt down serial killers. Oy.

Who couldn't love Adam Baldwin and Katie Finneran (sp)? It was particularly great to see Adam again and even though he wasn't playing Jayne (sob) I couldn't help but think of Vera and all the good times they had together. :) The plot itself was not terribly interesting or unique to me but it seems that Tim is all about establishing the characters rather than heaping on too much plot development in the beginning. I dunno. Must see it again to judge. I am intrigued by Coyote's character and by the girl, er young woman. Yet I was also sort of revolted by the tug of war of dominance/protection that Coyote and the nice young FBI dude established over Rebecca's character. I'd like to see her take care of herself, thank you. And she may yet. With Tim, I suspect it won't be as simple as it seems. I'll keep watching.
I hear that jaynelovesvera, I just recognized it as a direct quote and wanted help remembering it. No disrepect meant, and I (over)use "much" in my daily life as a result of Joss's influence.
Hm, well it wasn't bad but it didn't turn me into a believer. I agree that one episode is far from enough to judge a show although the comparisons to Buffy S1 are not fair. Joss was starting out then. If you want to compare it, compare it to either Angel or Firefly where Joss was seasoned like Tim is here.

What I can say from just watching this one ep so far, I guess my main problems remain what I got from just watching the trailers: it's drawn from great inspirational wells but it doesn't do more for me than make me remember how good those wells were. Movies like Silence of the Lambs, Se7en, shows like Millennium, books like James Ellroy's...Tim clearly loves this stuff and I share that love. But everything in this pilot just felt really derivative from all that. Visually, thematically, plot-wise, etc. Clarice-by-way-of-Buffy, the in-joke where Adam actually called her Clarice Starling (like Andrew mentioning Dark Phoenix in the Dark Willow arc) but making a self-aware joke about it doesn't make the way too obvious connection go away.

I also don't think the crazed serial killer noir- genre lends itself for 'case of the week'. This was over far too quickly and it just felt too easy.

As for the characters and their actors...too early to say as well obviously, but from what I saw: Adam Baldwin is the Jayne again. Big mouth tough guy who points out what sucks. He does it well and I had no problems really, but it didn't jump up and grab me at the throat either. Peter Coyote is always good. I just hope Tim isn't going to make us wonder the whole season whether he's good or bad or something. That just creates a distance between me and the character that actually prevents me from really having an opinion on him. (Much like Locke from Lost) So far he's the darker version of Jack Crawford and he does it well. (apart from the Buffy-esque jokey lines. Those kinda fell flat. Buffy/Angel/FF actors would've nailed those)

The lead. Eh. Too pretty like Willowy said. But that's not even it. Buffy was pretty. So were those other female characters, but they all had something extra. This really just feels like the generic pretty coed type that could've come straight from any Dawson's Creek type series. She may have depths that will surprise me, but right now she really didn't emote a hell of a lot. So far, kinda just pretty and bland.

Overal it was well-written, good atmosphere, decently shot. I'll tune in again next week, but that's more based on hope of what's to come than what I saw tonight.

Few nit-picky things of the plot: (invisible as to not spoil)

For the rest the writing was fine, as would be expected, except for one thing. Just as I was thinking of all those cliched lines that bad SotL rip-off movies use ("Got a bad feeling about this one", "this one's gonna go on and one", "he's got a taste for it now" etc etc) and how Tim was fortunately avoiding them, he throws one in anyway...."He's here! I can feel it!" Come on Tim. You're better than that. Maybe it was deliberate and meant as a little funny...?

Funny bit with the 'Wolfram security' hehe. Liked that. Anyway, I'll tune in again next week, but I hope things pick up a little.

[ edited by EdDantes on 2005-06-09 07:46 ]
And Cordelia's "overidentify much?" My personal favorite. :)
I liked it more than I expected to after reading the negative reviews. There's a lot going on between the characters, and I like that. I could buy Rebecca Locke in that role. She seemed very green but gifted in profiling, and I liked that she has some vulnerability. When that one review complained about her being the victim, I expected her to end up locked in a basement with the killer. That isn't what happened. I didn't see her as being a victim.

The episode was kind of like The X-Files meets Silence of the Lambs. Rebecca Locke totally reminded me of Jodi Foster as Clarice Starling. The show looks good. I'll definitely keep watching, as it's sure to get better as it develops.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-06-09 07:59 ]
Rogue Slayer and EdDantes, I'm with you both on the nit-picky plot issues. I wonder if it wouldn't be more fulfilling to stretch out a case over multiple episodes. That'd lend more believability and depth to the action. The Wire does this brilliantly by having one case span an entire season. But The Inside is a different beast than The Wire and I have faith. Pilots on network TV are tricky things - you have to establish interesting characters and relationships while taking people on enough of a exciting rollercoaster ride that they want to hop on again. It's kind of a kitchen sink deal and I bet it's tough to do. Tim is a very fine showrunner and a gifted writer/director. I look forward to what comes next from him (and Jane and Ben.)

I noticed the Wolfram Security badge and got a kick out of it. Wolfram & Hart is only a genre away from the dark world of The Inside. I can believe there'd be some crossover between the worlds from time to time! Heck, when Rebecca was trapped in the subway car with the schlubby little killer dude, I was half expecting a vampire to sashay in and start biting.
When that one review complained about her being the victim, I expected her to end up locked in a basement with the killer. That isn't what happened. - esg

Exactly. She didn't fail to recognize him as the killer or anything. Her boss set her up. Different beast entirely.

Good first ep, imho. I was glad to see the premise as I've heard it - so clearly in the first ep. The triangle between Rebecca, Webster (right?) and, let's try the other one too - Paul? Conscience guy? That was very clear. I thought it may have been hinted at, but not necessarily shown so clearly. Now that I've seen the episode, I'm thinking, "of course they would", but I just didn't see it coming beforehand.

I was at a friend's house watching. "She" is a fan of all of Joss' shows (thanks to me), but her husband, oh no. Thinks I'm crazy. At the end, when that triangle between the three was crystal clear, he got interested. He liked the whole ep, but that moment struck him.

I do want to see a bit more humor tied in there for contrast, but I suspect that will come. I'll be back for more.

Are we sure this is a Big Bad of the Week series? I understand rushing a few things in the pilot a bit, but the unit had been on this case for over a year. I wonder if, amidst some self-contained eps, larger cases, encompassing more than one ep, will start to role out. Course, I could be totally wrong.
Given that they've already told us that this team gets stuck on cases for over a year sometimes, it'll make sense to have multi-episode arcs very often. It'll be great if the writers never announce it/hype it up with press and advertising. If they simply start, say with some random episode like #8, a new case and it doesn't get resolved at the end of the ep and suddenly the audience can't get a feel for when it'll end. And the storyline continues for as long as the writers need it to. Could be three episodes, could be the rest of the season.

I'd really like to see that, I think it'd take balls (and probably the network's blessing too, unfortunately). I strongly feel that multi-episode arcs are a necessity for the believability of this show's storylines though. Even if it is mainly about the characters more than the case. The cases still need to work fairly well. I'll understand if the first several or dozen episodes are mostly cases-of-the-week though, to build an audience. That's just fine as long as we have character arcs happening in the meantime. It'll be pretty cool if the series hooks your average mainstream viewer with something like that--they think they're watching another CSI, and then all of a sudden you get them involved with something that's a little more cerebral.
To all the people nitpicking: We know LESS about how the FBI and other crime task forces than the writers of the television shows that portray them. And you know what? Maybe some of us DO know more than writers, but are we, as viewers, really granted that much nitpicky-allowance?

And I wasn't sure about the lead actress until they dressed her up as the "bait." At that point, all dolled up, she was still the same character as before. So... you know... it wasn't just the costume that made her FBI-girl.

I have complete trust in Tim Minear, so it's got at least one regular viewer.
I expected far more. If I didn't know the team behind it, I would just think that this was the regular brand of overhyped Fox tripe. It's not that the violence itself upsets me. It's just that I far prefer having to imagine it. It's almost always more effective that way.

The only show on my watch list that bears a resemblance is Alias, and the entire time I was watching this episode, I kept thinking that Alias had set up its premiere episode far more deftly in terms of making me care about the people. I saw AICN praising the show for not tipping its hand too much on Rebecca's past - but frankly, unless I know more about this past that apparently "defines" her? I could care less whether she turns out to be a damsel in distress every week, or if she has magical Mary Sue crime-solving powers. I can forgive the flaws if I care who she is, but I see another bland, pretty blonde actress who is not bringing much to infuse her role with personality, of which there is little in the script thus far anyway. I get uncomfortable when I don't know what kind of person the main character is after the first episode.

Webs is a great character on paper, but Peter Coyote (while rocking the creepy Sloane-esque vibe) fell flat on the Buffy-esque lines. The main guy, from the look of the previews where he appears to just keep complaining at Webs, actually appears to have achieved the impossible and seems to be a character even more dull than Michael Vaughn. Always talking about whatever's going on with the main girl, constantly complaining about how eeeeevil Webster is (if his big exciting value as a character is that he has a conscience? ...color me unimpressed). And every review I've read stated that Katie and Adam don't really get enough screentime later on. Overall, I'm not really seeing this as the great character piece it was promoted as, and Rebecca better shape up awfully quickly to hold my interest. I'm not really up for watching a season of the blonde supermodel-type being constantly manipulated by superiors while lacking personality.

I'll probably give it another chance next week - if it enticed David Fury away from Lost, there must be something worthwhile eventually. And it's summer, so it's not like there's anything else on....but overall, I think it's just barely watchable. And I didn't feel like it was encouraging me to think or imagine anything to come. If it had been promoted as the average crime drama, I wouldn't have minded - but I knew the people behind it aren't average crime drama writers, and this still completely failed to excite me.
I just like thinking that this will become the Parents Television Council's new choice for "worst show on TV." Anything on thier top 10 list of worst/most offensive shows, I try to watch, because I'm usually sure to love it.

I hope there are others that do the same.
I liked it and my husband liked it. He doesn't like any of the Jossverse shows or Lost so I'm very happy to have a show we can watch together. I thought it was very good for the first episode of a series and all the actors did a good job. I had concerns about the lead female before watching, but was pleasantly surprised. Loved the city shots and though I had my eyes peeeled , I totally missed the Wolfram security thing (grr..). We will definatly be tuning in.
Anyone else come away thinking that the Web character had orchestrated most of the events in the episode so he could kill the killer without any questions being raised? Like maybe that's all he does with every case the team takes?

It felt like there was some undercurrent in the episode that went beyond foreshadowing, like maybe 'gotcha' level details were being dropped consistently throughout the episode. Stuff that might pay off in a large way later. Prolly just reading too much into it, who knows.
Let me just say that i really enjoyed it. I'm a sucker for dark, gritty shows and "The Inside" pretty much fits the profile (pun intended).

What i really liked was the cast and their interactions. Adam Baldwin is pure gold as always and Peter Coyotes character seems to be some bad mf. Katie Finneran didn't have much to do, but since "Wonderfalls" we all know what she is capable of. And even Jay Harrington didn't suck, hehe. Rachel Nichols may look like a Clarence Starling rip-off at first sight (as so nicely pointed out by Baldwins character), but i'm sure, that's not even half of it.

The pilot itself was a little bit to much by the books for my taste, but that's how "Millennium" started out too and that has become one hell of a ride in Season 2. Talking of "Millennium"... well that's an obvious influence, as is "Miracles" and the sunrise-cuts reminded me a lot of "Angel". And of course i loooved the shout out to all Angel-fans. :)
I liked the consistent tone, the darkness and the relief of not feeling like I was being drowned in exposition. I don’t think it was terribly original, but that might have been to make the general audience feel comfortable with something familiar.
Peter Coyote’s line “I know all about your problems. It’s why you’re here” sets him up as an interestingly manipulative character, even though, for some of his other dialogue, I agree with Rogue Slayer that “Sadly, Peter Coyote cannot deliver those offhanded remarks that I've come to expect from Whedon/Minear/etc shows. The lines were good, just not done well.” Some of the dialogue for other characters didn’t exactly ring true to me, but that could just be the actors not knowing and not having a feel for their characters yet. I think when they settle in they will probably make a good team and have the potential to all be f*ucked up, which I like.
Networks love “likeability”. I prefer complex characters. Rebecca gives hints of being complex and tormented but I don’t think the actress is up to the challenge of the role. I know her character is supposed to be a little green but when Coyote’s character calls her “tough” and how she “saw the dark” you have to take his word for it because she doesn’t convey any past trauma. If the camera is always looking for truth, it better not linger on her very long.
I hope storylines are drawn out into longer arcs and the characters remain grim yet not always serious. I think it’s important that it be uncompromising, which will be quite a task given the network it’s on. I liked it. I didn’t love it, but I will be tuning in next week.
Hey, just woke up but just wanted to say I think ya'll's thoughts are pretty spot-on! I do hope Peter Coyote finds his groove, that magnificent bastard. I've seldom been disappointed by him.

Oh, and Ying... I meant "Scully-ish" to mean more ordinary looking. I guess it's personal taste, but I never thought she was "hollywood hot" even on her best day. To each his own.
Rebecca gives hints of being complex and tormented but I don’t think the actress is up to the challenge of the role.... If the camera is always looking for truth, it better not linger on her very long.

Yeah, exactly. To me, if you look at her face you can't tell if they're talking about her childhood trauma or the fact that she needs to get her car's oil changed. There's just not much...there.
Not bad, but not great. The only truly interesting character at the moment is Webster, and I'm interested in discovering his real purpose in assembling the VCU team, because solving crimes seems to be only a small part of his motivation. (Call it a hunch.) The scene where he was waiting for Rebecca at the 9th victim's apartment was creepy and effective.

Rachel Nichols isn't half-bad as Rebecca, and a darn sight better than Elizabeth Harnois in Point Pleasant. (Not running down Marti, folks, just telling people things could be a lot worse when it comes to purty blonde leads.) Not nearly enough Adam Baldwin or Kate Finneran and too much of Conscience Boy, who looks like he could get really dull really fast.

Won't repeat the complaints about the plot holes and the too-simple ID of the killer; I second the vote for multi-episode arcs.

Tim's promising some shocks and surprises down the line. And Amber Benson. I'll stick it out, but he's got to do better in the next few weeks.

[ edited by cjl on 2005-06-09 16:47 ]
“To me, if you look at her face you can't tell if they're talking about her childhood trauma or the fact that she needs to get her car's oil changed.”

At the very least, needs to have more of a “Did I remember to turn off all the burners on the stove?” look in her eyes. ;)
At the very least, needs to have more of a “Did I remember to turn off all the burners on the stove?” look in her eyes.

Not very promising when we're suggesting she take acting lessons from Joey on Friends... ;~)

And Amber Benson

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about her. I'll definitely tune in for her ep. Love me some Amber...
“Not very promising when we're suggesting she take acting lessons from Joey on Friends... ;~)”

Gah! I had no idea I was channeling something from Friends. I forgot all about Amber, too. I hope she survives until the credits roll!
The ratings bombed, as it was destoyed by the reality show 'Dancing With Stars', Law & Order rerun and even beat by reruns of Yes Dear and King of Queens. Doesn't look good for poor Tim. Its Fox so i won't be suprised if it continues to do poorly and they end its run short of the 13 episodes.
Little bit of info from another viewer at TelevisionWithoutPity...

As for Rachel's acting Tim said on another board he re-shot most of the pilot to change her demeanor from "cheerful and perky".

"Yes, her placid blank thing was a choice. My choice. About 3/4 of this pilot was re-shot."

He also says the first few episodes are used to set up the Webb/Rebecca/Paul triangle so Adam and Katie have to wait.
The main guy, (...) actually appears to have achieved the impossible and seems to be a character even more dull than Michael Vaughn. Always talking about whatever's going on with the main girl, constantly complaining about how eeeeevil Webster is.

Good point. That's another thing I noticed too. I hope there's going to be more to this guy than just talk/think/worry about the lead girl and complaining to Webs that he is too mean.

I'm not really up for watching a season of the blonde supermodel-type being constantly manipulated by superiors while lacking personality.

That aptly sums up my more pessimistic fears......

As for Rachel's acting Tim said on another board he re-shot most of the pilot to change her demeanor from "cheerful and perky".
"Yes, her placid blank thing was a choice. My choice. About 3/4 of this pilot was re-shot."

Uhm okay... I agree cheerful and perky isn't the way to go, but the only other option is bland? Sorry but in terms of drama, when is bland ever a good idea? I don't think I've ever been drawn to bland lead characters.
Well, Tim's term was "placid blank", which IMO if the actor is playing it right, shouldn't necessarily come off as bland (though it will if she plays it that way the whole season, it will).

I think it's just that they don't want to overplay their hand right away. For now, until I've seen more, I'm giving the actress the benefit of the doubt and chalking up the director's decision for how she should play it to just a tricky pilot thing. We're not supposed to feel close to or really get to know Rachel Nichol's character (yikes, I can't remember the agent's name). Which kinda works against them trying to attract an audience I suppose, but it's possible enough people will stick around out of curiosity and not needing all the characters to be relatable and/or likeable. I guess Minear and company felt they had enough compelling characters in Paul and Webster for this first episode (Adam and Katie had next to nothing to do, so I doubt they contributed much to drawing in the average viewer). I dunno, I didn't think they knocked it out of the park in any particular aspect, though the creep was pretty effective (well, I had all the lights off with no one else in the house and the sound cranked). I just think the series has loads of potential and am curious enough to stick around for a while.
Eek! My VCR cut off the last 15 minutes or so. Could someone fill me in on what happens after Rebecca steps back on the subway train?

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