I notice that the Firefly DVD boxset is back in Amazon's Top Ten Bestselling DVDs since it got released two years ago.

Simon | June 21, 21:18 CET

Yup, it's doing well. It seems every time there is a new screening the sales go up! I think this bodes very well for our BDM!!

Firefly Flanatic | June 21, 21:22 CET

It's interesting to me that the review mentions Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces -- written in the late 1940s (even older than I am!) -- which most people today associate with the chronologically first Star Wars, or perhaps with Campbell's PBS series that aired just before his death -- both of which pre-date the births of much of the target audience for Firefly. I wonder how many of the younger generation know the reference? And I also wonder how many (apart from those here at Whedonesque and the other Joss-related websites) are familiar with the westerns that Firefly builds upon. I'm always amazed when I talk to teens and twenty-somethings in general (with whom I have ample contact) how little they know about popular culture -- beyond contemporary music and the celebrity hunk/pinup du jour. (This is not an indictment, just an observation -- and, of course, there are many exceptions to this broad brush.) I guess my question -- perhaps posed to the younger members who post here -- is what are the access points in Firefly which draw you in? Just curious.

palehorse | June 21, 21:38 CET

Don't get me started on Campbell and Lucas. Really, you don't want that screed :) Fantastic review and further shininess for our BDM. Can't wait to show 'our' baby to the world :))

zeitgeist | June 21, 22:59 CET

I'm always amazed when I talk to teens and twenty-somethings in general (with whom I have ample contact) how little they know about popular culture --

Well popular culture is only popular culture for a specific place/time/group. I only know about Campbell because I read too much and I admittedly came too it through Star Wars. The pop culture of a younger generation isn't going to be yours and vice-versa.

I can spot every movie remake/TV adaptation thats released in cinemas, only because I've seen or atleast heard of most of the originals because that happens to be an interest of mine, but my girlfriend while older than me wasn't aware that the new Honeymooners movie was a remake of an old TV show. (Bang. Zoom. Too the moon.)

So to those non-geeks of my generation "contemporary music and the celebrity hunk/pinup du jour" is their pop culture.

P.S. Who the hell are "The Ying Yang Twins" and why do they have a whole song where they whisper?

[ edited by sTalking_Goat on 2005-06-21 21:06 ]

sTalking_Goat | June 21, 23:05 CET

Well, I'm a twenty something and I have to be honest, I don't even know that much about pop culture of the current day, never mind years ago. I don't really watch TV, to say I'm not into major 'today' things like Star Wars would be an understatement, and I would put 90% of popular music into the 'make my ears bleed' category. So I am way out of the loop.

But I guess what I like about Firefly/Serenity is the same things that everyone else likes. It is just all about the story. The mystery and meaning behind it all. I dunno, it's cool. I think a major point in everything Joss writes is to have it be universal. So that no matter who you are, you take something unique away from it.

Inanis | June 22, 00:50 CET

I guess my question -- perhaps posed to the younger members who post here -- is what are the access points in Firefly which draw you in? Just curious.

Well I'm 16 and I got interested in Firefly because I was already a fan of Buffy and Angel. I initially didn't think the premise of Buffy sounded promising at all, but I did watch Welcome To The Hellmouth and I was hooked by the characterisation, witty dialogue and cool monsters.

It's strange to think I started watching Buffy when I was 9 or 10, but I think in a way that's a good thing, because as I grow older and become more intelligent then I can look at it on different levels and appreciate things I didn't understand before. I do think by now I do have a full appreciation of it, but I didn't five years ago.

But I don't think my knowledge of pop culture is limited to contemporary music and film. I have a good awareness of the past, and in music for example, I am keen to listen to older albums which are well respected now, and sometimes when I listen to a band like The White Stripes, who are very honest about their influences, I tend to try and have a look at the artists they were influenced by, such as Bob Dylan.

The same goes for films. I really love Tarantino's films and he is heavily influenced by pop culture and music and other films, and presents his own ideas through them. But after seeing his films it would lead me to try out some of the films he was influenced by, even though I might not have necessarily been aware of them before. Or my love of Star Wars, for example, might lead me to check out some films Lucas previous worked on, such as American Graffiti or THX 1138.

In Buffy and Angel I don't see a huge number of influences. Obviously there are the many horror films (and for Buffy, American high-school dramas, and Angel, film noir) but it's hard to pick out specific films or shows that they are obviously influenced by.

I'm sort of the same for Firefly. I'm aware that it is influenced a lot by Western films, but I've never really seen any so I can't say that it reminds me of anything in particular. I also recognise many sci-fi influences, Star Wars, for example.

But generally I do intend to keep expanding my knowledge of film, TV and music, either going through well known films that I've always wanted to see, or whether someone who I do like has listed them as an influence, such as Joss.

Razor | June 22, 00:53 CET

Very nice post, Razor, and believe me, you will revisit Buffy and Angel and Firefly again as you get even older and see things that you missed before. Whether its a popcult ref or a literary ref or an angle you didn't catch the last time due to differing emotional places you've been, it will be there and you will shake your head and wonder how they write this stuff on so many levels. I myself am amazed at the new things I catch as I approach my thirtieth.

zeitgeist | June 22, 01:11 CET

Razor, you are 16? I had no idea.

I think Buffy makes more reference to pop culture than is influenced by it. But that's just me.

April | June 22, 19:08 CET

Very nice post, Razor, and believe me, you will revisit Buffy and Angel and Firefly again as you get even older and see things that you missed before.

I'm looking forward to it. ;)

April, yes, I'm 16. If you're surprised I'll take it as a compliment. :) And I agree, every character makes heavy use of pop culture references so I think that the references made definately outweigh any influences.

Razor | June 22, 23:57 CET

So, it's me the author of that epinions review. I was wondering why my review got so many hits all of a sudden, and tracked it back here.

It's interesting to think that I have probably never watched an authentic western from beginning to end (perhaps Unforgiven comes closest, right actor/director wrong era, or perhaps Seven Samurai, write era wrong country) aside from snippets here and there, I never has the patience, and instead my encounter with Westerns is largely filtered through modern rehashes, e.g. Young Guns, or parodies, e.g. City Slickers, or the numerous references that percolate throughout pop culture, e.g. The Marlboro Man.

It is interesting how much of Firefly plays off of real Western tropes, and how much it is merely playing off the meme of some notional "Western movie ideal" that somehow has managed to stay alive in contemporary pop culture, even amongst us young who barely know what John Wayne looks like.

hobs | June 30, 02:46 CET