This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"She's more than that, she gives me something you can't."
11945 members | you are not logged in | 24 October 2014




Tweet







June 24 2005

Spike one-shot preview now with dialogue, unlike earlier previews of the same pages, and with writer Peter David discussing the story.

"I've been in talks with IDW over a Spike limited series."

Oh please tell me I'm reading this correctly and it means we might have a Spike series of comics!!!
Oh very nice, I thought when I saw the earlier previews that William had made a wish and Cecily/Halfrek had acted upon it. Be interesting to see how the story plays out.

If there is a Spike mini-series, I'd love to see more old-school Spike stories. Back when he was a villain and all that. And have Dru in it as well. Gotta love Dru.
I don't get the feeling the spike mini will be post NFA. Jeff Marriote is the only guy with the okay to do those right now. He confirmed Spike will be in his second series. He also stated him and PAD are working independatly, with no connection between their comics.

I bet we see Dru and Spike, as she is the gray area between Darkhorse Buffy and IDW Angel. There area great many stories to tell there and a huge fanbase for them.

I could see PAD attacking any of these ideas:

Dru and Spike after Angel is souled and the Fanged Four break up...Prague

How Spike got from Africa to Sunnydale.

I would also say these comics really do put any on scren firmly in that not happening. But hey a four part limited run can be fun. The Haunted one a few years back with Faith was incrediable.
Is this story going to be canon? It sounds like from PAD's tone that it is. Personally I'm against it. I always liked the idea that the exchange between Halfrek and Spike was as the article said just a shout out to us because we knew Kali Rocha was the same actress who played Cecily.

It's just one man's opinion but I think the idea that Cecily was Halfrek in human form undercuts some of the power in the story of lovelorn William's transition to Spike. Even though William doesn't know she's really Halfrek, it makes his love for Cecily less important if she's actually a demon. I don't know how many others feel as I do. I suspect I'm in the minority.

First they did "Lies My Parents Told Me", now this. Why can't they quit f***ing with "Fool for Love"?!
What was wrong with Lies My Parents Told Me? I always enjoyed that episode, flashbacks and everything. Also I don't think this flashback undercuts Fool for Love, as Spike didn't know in the flashbacks that she was a demon and therefore the experience was still real to him.

I like when connections between characters such as this are made, within reason, and with Spike and Halfrek it would make less sense for him to have pasts with two characters who shared the same looks.
Speaking of comics, does anyone know of a good place online to buy the Angel one that's supposedly coming out this month?
I like that Cecily and Halfrek are the same person. I mean, the way she told him that he was beneath her...that was what set off the chain of events that turned him into a vampire...something that would definitely draw D'Hoffryn's attention to come to Cecily and ask her to join is crew of Vengeance Demons.
something that would definitely draw D'Hoffryn's attention to come to Cecily and ask her to join is crew of Vengeance Demons.

I think this comic implies she was Vengeance Demon before her discussion with William. Granted, it's possible she wasn't with D'Hoffryn then, but I just figured he was the 'boss' of most of the VD anyway...

Oh, VD, that doesn't sound good...sorry.
I'd be interested in seeing how this plays. Somehow though I don't really buy that Halfrek would grant Williams wish but I think I'll read it to see what happenes anyway. Personally though my own version of events had Cecily meeting Anyanka moments after William left the party and making a wish that William were dead (or along those lines) and the wish granted by Anyanka causes Dru to approach Willliam and turn him into a vampire. I was always hoping there would be a revalation along those lines and a confrontation between Spike and Anya because of it.
Personally though my own version of events had Cecily meeting Anyanka moments after William left the party and making a wish that William were dead

Would Cecily have enough cause to wish him dead? By Vengeance Standards?
If Vengeance is petty, then why not? "I wish he were dead so he wouldn't embarass me ever again!" or something along those lines.
In my opinion Cecily didn't get changed into Halfrek until after william got changed into a vampire. I want someone to write a story about how she got changed.
Charisma, Halfrek and Anya had a conversation about granting vengeance during the Crimean war, which was long before Spike was ever born. I believe this conversation took place in "Lessons".
Halfrek and Anya had a conversation about granting vengeance during the Crimean war

Not the Crimean war, esg - it was the October Revolution in Russia - 1905, IIRC. Certainly they were wearing early-1900s dresses. (Light-bulb) - Ah, yes, I see what you mean - they mentioned the Crimean War in St Petersburg.

[pedant mode] I do find some of the writing jars. "Bloody" just wasn't ever used by the upper classes in the Victorian period - even in 1913 a single use of the word on stage in "Pymalion" caused a furore. And "knickers" a) meant breeches and b) would not have been mentioned in mixed company either. "In a knot" is not the idiom in Britain anyway - it's "in a twist".

OK. [/pedant mode]
I think it sounds like a good idea, and I always thought it would make more sense that Cecily was Halfrek rather than the two being seperate people played by the same actress.

My one disappointment is that I had always thought that after Spike became a vampire, like after killing his mother in "Lies My Parents Told Me", he went and killed all of those who had been taunting him at the party, bringing new meaning to the name "William the Bloody". So that couldn't really have happened if Halfrek killed all the party guests.

I don't think you have to take anything as canon, unless it is actually in the TV series. My policy is that if you like everything that happens in it, then accept it as canon if you want, but if it contradicts something or doesn't make sense to you, then you don't have to.
If there is a Spike mini-series, I'd love to see more old-school Spike stories. Back when he was a villain and all that. And have Dru in it as well. Gotta love Dru.

Trouble is, there's already been Spike and Dru comics and books that focus on Spike as the bad guy. There's so much more to him than that and I'd like that reflected in the stories.
I don't want to return to evil Spike either. I can stand a few flashbacks, but evil Spike is NOT who Spike is any more. Why regress and show the character in a bad light. I want post NFA Spike...I want to know that he survived...if he shanshued thats great...if not fine too....but we know enough about what Spike was...I want to see what Spike BECOMES NOW.

My fear is that Joss will sit on this story in case of a movie and we may never know what happened. It's a damn shame too, because it's a waste of a GREAT character if nothing else ever happens.
Trouble is, there's already been Spike and Dru comics and books that focus on Spike as the bad guy.


Aye, and I'd like to see more of them. I enjoyed Spike as the bad guy. He was fun, it was like watching a evil rock and roll star. Post season 6 Spike was a bit too earnest for my tastes.

But if there is a Spike comic book series, I'm sure Peter David do a very good job on whatever aspect of Spike he chooses (or is allowed) to write about. And I, for one, will buy it.
I know I'm probably pretty alone in my opinion, but I don't really want to see that much more of Spike. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see any Buffy-verse project, but if it was up to me to choose which character I wanted it to focus on, Spike wouldn't be one of them.

I've only seen up to "Lineage" of season five of Angel, but I just think that there's not much more to the character. I thought his journey in Buffy was fantastic, although by season seven I didn't think there was that much further he could have gone. Personally I thought "Chosen" was a fitting end for the character, although I was open minded about his move to Angel.

So far, I haven't loved season five, and while I don't think there has been anything about Spike's role that has been completely horrible or stupid, I just don't see why he's there. Sure, he seems to offer some much needed comic relief, and "Hell Bound" was a fantastically scary episode (one of the best of the season so far, in my opinion), but I just don't know how much further the character can go. Perhaps it'll get more interesting when he returns to corporeal form, but so far I just think it's a shame that Spike gets so much attention when there are other characters who don't get that much focus.

So far I think that Wesley, Fred, Gunn and Lorne have all been pretty much underused this season, and from what I hear the rest of the season pretty much becomes "The Angel and Spike show" which is disappointing. We've seen Spike for six years on Buffy and I think whilst there is still potential for his character, there isn't as much to be gained as from other characters.

Take Cordelia, for example, who Joss apparently didn't know what to do with, or even Gwen who had a lot of potential and hasn't been seen since late season four. Yes, Cordelia has been in three seasons of Buffy and the previous four of Angel, as a regular, but I think that her story was cut short too early just as it was beginning to get interesting, as opposed to Spike who hasn't been a regular as long, but I really don't want to see that much more of.

So generally I don't want to see that much more of Spike's story, even in flashbacks, because there are other characters and stories I would like to see more of. It's better than nothing, and the Spike/Halfrek relationship seems interesting, but I'd rather see someone else take the spotlight.
Yeah, I'll agree on the Cordelia aspect. She's my FAVORITE character out of the entire Buffyverse, and we really never got to explore her demonic powers all that much and everything. But at the same time, realize that Charisma's pregnancy during the break between seasons 3 and 4 forced the people to change their story arc....or at least that's what i heard?

if that's the case...i wonder what the original arc was?
I wouldn't mind more *evil* Spike stories if there was a balance of *good* Spike stories. I don't feel he's been given a complete picture of his character in the novels or comics.
I am not a big Spike lover. I have no real need to see him by himself. I also, IMO, don't see much more to his story, that does not mirror or start turning into a copy of Angel. Been there, loved the original. But I will always read him and Dru. No matter what time period, what he and Dru had or have will always be a winner. Spike was always at his sharpest, even in love, with Dru. Soul or no soul.

There have always been other comics and other stories. That does not mean you cannot ever revist an era. The prague storyline has not ever been really touched, and that one is about much more then evil Spike it is about his love for Dru. Spike making his way from Africa to sunnydale and how the first connected with him, is also intresting.

I don't see Joss sitting on any story, Jeff Merriote confirmed he is including non flashback Spike in his psot NFA comic,so I dont' see PAD being able to do it. And since the Darkhorse rights, don't run out till the end of the year, there can be NO Buffy character's at all. So all you have is pre-soul spike. There are never to many past stories to tell

Any movie, if ever will be big screen. Or if it is done tv side,very down the line, maybe in the tradition of ST:TNG, and be a whole new world like Fray. Which Like TNG could ignite the whole new franchise,with new characters, and old connections.

From what I remember at the time, The Beast was supposed to be some kind of Hannible lector thing, that Faith would be coming into fight and that would be the reason the gang needed Angelus. I also rememebr that CC was supposed to be reoccuring, but that changed suddenly. Like the show runner. The pregnancy did NOT have to make them change. A desk , having her sit with a injury, or not so skanky clothes could have been used.

Cordy was the reason I went to Angel. Sadly when they took away her specialness and felt they needed to Buffy her up, I lost connection and care. But The real Cordy with snark and fashion sense, will always be one of my favorites. There is a mini I would love to see.
Spike IS my favorite character, by far. I like the real thing best, but I guess I'll be glad that the illustrations are very good and PAD has a great reputation.
Huntress - I read somewhere (sorry, can't find link right now) that the original version was that CC WAS Jasmine so no Connor/Cordy scenes needed but the part was going to be very action focussed and so was impossible given CC was pregnant .

Not sure who asked above, but the "Prague-years" have been done a little in "Tales of the Vampires" in "The Trouble with Vampires", courtesy of the wonderful Drew Goddard. It is just as a warped and twisted as you might hope a Spike/Dru tale from that time would be!
Yeah, I'll agree on the Cordelia aspect. She's my FAVORITE character out of the entire Buffyverse, and we really never got to explore her demonic powers all that much and everything. But at the same time, realize that Charisma's pregnancy during the break between seasons 3 and 4 forced the people to change their story arc....or at least that's what i heard?

if that's the case...i wonder what the original arc was?


In the last issue of the UK Angel magazine there is an interview with Jeff Bell where he states,

'We were sitting around in the writer's room, talking about what the season was going to be, what the Big Bad was and we kind of came up with the idea that, "Oh my God, it's Cordelia1" We thought it'd be brilliant.
We called Joss into the room and said, "Okay, this is it! She comes back. And the big reveal at the end is... it's Cordelia!" It was like this cool moment, this little secret between all of us. And three days later Charisma was pregnant, so suddenly our Big Bad was the Big Mom. And you're not going to do a lot of drop kicks across the room when you're pregnant. The plan had always been for her to become the Big Bad and let Connor rule at her side."


Of course it is possible that Charisma's pregnancy did change the arc significantly, but the official story is that it only affected it slightly. I guess if she hadn't become pregnant then it would have been a similar story, Jasmine could still have been possessing Cordelia and everything could have basically gone the same way, except maybe Cordelia didn't need to have sex with Connor.

I think Cordelia was a fantastic character, but I will admit that by the end of season three she was getting a little boring. I liked the way she was becoming more peaceful and powerful, such as calming Connor with her demonic powers and comforting Angel, but they completely lost her sharper side. Earlier in the season she still had grown a lot from the shallow, snippy Sunnydale cheerleader we once knew, but still had some real attitude, as evidenced with her conversation with Lilah in "Billy".

I think that being possessed by Jasmine in season four was probably one of the best ways they could have shook the character up and prevent her from becoming boring. I think after the events of season four there was more potential left for the character than there was a year before. Now her relationship with Angel is completely different, and Cordelia herself was exposed to some pretty nasty stuff, after all she had no choice in what Jasmine was doing, including sleeping with Connor or killing people. I think I would have liked to have seen Cordelia wake up after "giving birth" to Jasmine, and be filled with remorse and have to deal with it even though she wasn't really responsible for it.

I think there was still a lot of potential for the character and I think there was more new ground to cover there than there is with Spike. But I'll have to keep watching to see.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.



joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home