This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I mock you with my monkey pants."
11944 members | you are not logged in | 24 July 2014












January 20 2003

Small glimmer of hope for Firefly fans. Tim Minear says the show is not dead and that Joss and Mutant Enemy are working on a new angle.

Maybe even a movie? Or failing that, Faith and Spike end up on Firefly thus causing the show to run for another 5 seasons.
I've been wondering why they couldn't just make it a syndicated show. Hercules, Xena, Hercules in Space -- I mean Andromeda, Mutant X, ST:TNG, ST:DS9, have all done quite well in syndication. I can't image that the salaries for Firefly would be much more than the salaries on Andromeda, and there certainly aren't as many special effects or sets. I have no clue of course, but I would think that overall Andromeda, now in its 3rd season, would be more expensive per episode than FF.

So given the success of other science fiction shows in first run syndication, I don't see why it couldn't be done here.

But what do I know. I'm a nobody.
I agree, syndication would be the best and perhaps the only option left for Mutant Enemy now.
I find it difficult to fathom how a sub-par SF show like Andromeda is still on the air, while a AAA series like Firefly was cancelled after so few episodes. I think your 'average' viewer had a tough time getting past the 'uncool' title (Firefly) and the fact that it has a Western-style.

Syndication may be the answer.
I've been an ardent Buffy fan from day one, and Angel, although weaker than its source series, is always on my must-see list, but I just can't understand the support and time wasted on the dull, unimaginative Firefly that wouldn't have got a minute of airtime if Joss hadn't used the kudos from Buffy and Angel to persuade WB to take it on. Joss's obsession with Firefly, which never had a hope in hell of appealing to a general audience, has been damaging to Buffy and Angel, and has also delayed or cancelled the long-promised Ripper spin-off. I'd love to see an original, exciting SF series, but Firefly isn't it, and never could be. Joss, stop banging on about Firefly and let it sink into the oblivion it deserves and get back to the suoernatural irony that is your real forte.
Correction to previous post: substitute Fox for WB. Sorry for the slip, although I suspect the died-in-the-wool Firefly fans will be just as angry with the message! No offence intended, but if Buffy (my favorite series of all time) and Angel should fail, and Ripper never gets made, Firefly will bear much of the responsibility.
"if Joss hadn't used the kudos from Buffy and Angel to persuade Fox to take it on"

He's not using Buffy and Angel to persuade Fox. Joss is under contract with Fox to develop new series. It's his job to do so.

Also... Buffy doesn't appeal to a 'general' audience either. It's a genre show and it appeals to a niche audience. In Buffy's case, just about large enough to last 7 seasons.

Too bad you didn't like Firefly. A lot of people did. Did you see any episodes? If so, which ones? I saw them all and got sucked in after three or four of them.

As for Joss having to go back to what is his 'real forte'... gosh, that might just be writing musicals. Artists need to try new things, if they don't, they become the bleedin' Rolling Stones.
Prolific, Thanks for the venom. I can save some of my own now. To be honest, had I been so closed minded as to watch only the first episode that aired on Fox (which, by the way whirl, was not the intended first ep) I may have found the show a bit lackluster. But I kept with it, and by the time they reached the ep "Out Of Gas," I was officially hooked. It kind of reminded me of the anime series Outlaw Star, downgraded of course. With the mention in this article of final editing of the three unaired episodes, maybe we still have some real hope of seeing them, maybe on a DVD collection?

Whirl, if you want to go blame someone for Firefly not clicking with you, you might want to write to Fox. They not only refused to air the episodes in order, but cancelled Joss' "write whatever series you want, and we'll pony up for a year of it" contract. I guess "putting the series on hold" keeps them out of "breach of contract" territory.
prolific, jack knight: By all means take pot shots at me for not liking Firefly (prolific: I watched every episode except Serenity, from The Train Job to Objects in Space) but that comes down to subjective opinion. You liked it. I disliked it. Nothing more of real value can be said on that matter. The main point of my post was that Joss has become obsessed with Firefly and that his unwillingness to let it go and move on is doing no one any favors, least of all Buffy and Angel and the long-delayed Ripper series (the BBC has been waiting for almost two years for Joss to deliver the 6-8 Ripper scripts he promised). I don't know if you have any interest in watching a Ripper series, but it's a fact that most Buffy and Angel fans have been waiting for it to materialize with increasing impatience (presumably it will be shown here on BBC America). The inordinate delay is largely down to Firely. Also, Buffy and Angel have not received Joss's full attention because of Firefly, and it shows.

prolific:
Also... Buffy doesn't appeal to a 'general' audience either. It's a genre show and it appeals to a niche audience. In Buffy's case, just about large enough to last 7 seasons

Buffy isn't a niche show, at least in a typical sense. When Jamie Kellner at WB wanted to rile ME and Joss he would refer to Buffy as a "niche show". Pretty ironic that you're saying the same. In fact, Buffy is one of those mavericks that doesn't fit any category. And are you talking here just about US ratings? Worldwide, Buffy has achieved massive viewing figures. The VHS and DVD sales are huge. It has even broken UK VHS sales records by staying at the top of Amazon.co.uk. for several weeks in summer, and yet again in the last few weeks. We can sometimes be too parochial in the US, but the networks are well aware of the over-riding importance of global sales. Buffy, and to a lesser extent Angel, has been a runaway success on a global scale (in Europe, for example, double the ratings of C.S.I). I just hope that Joss doesn't take that success too much for granted and let slip the one series that clicked for audiences worldwide.
"The main point of my post was that Joss has become obsessed with Firefly and that his unwillingness to let it go and move on is doing no one any favors, least of all Buffy and Angel and the long-delayed Ripper series"

Not to sound too harsh, but you have no proof of any of that. "obsessed with Firefly" to the exclusion of other things? That's a bold judgement to make on someone else's behalf. The only person who really knows how Joss' involvement in Firefly has affected his other work is Joss, and he has repeatedly said that Firefly has not materially changed his involvement with Buffy or Angel. I'm willing to take his word for it. You don't think Buffy or Angel are as good anymore? That's too bad for you, but that is just as subjective as your or anyone else's opinion of Firefly. I think Buffy and Angel are as strong as they have ever been.

Joss loves Firefly, that much is clear. A lot of us also love Firefly. And those of us who do will cheer every step Joss takes to find it a home.
One tiny piece of evidence suggesting that Joss isn't "obsessed" with Firefly to the exclusion of other important things is, well, the baby. If Buffy and Angel suffered during the last season, it may well by that Joss (and David Fury, and Marti Noxon) had family responsibilities he focused on.

Out here in the Viewerverse we may want to believe that Hollywood types are all about cranking the entertain-age, but clearly some talented folks have lives, even boring, messy, normal ones, away from work.
I've heard the "Joss was fatally distracted from Buffy and Angel (and Ripper) by Firefly" complaint circulate so many times now, and it's just so much nonsense. Joss has given us some twelve-odd combined years of Buffy/Angel to date, so is it really a surprise that he'd be looking for an outlet in a completely different imagined universe at this point? To blame the man for letting inspiration take him wherever it may go is a failure to understand his genius, and to think that without Firefly Joss will now suddenly redouble his efforts on the Buffyverse is wishful thinking in the extreme. I enjoy Buffy and Angel tremendously, and I'm sure 'Ripper' would be just as fun to watch, but I'm much more interested in seeing Joss grow as a creator and writer than anything else. Firefly was a fantastic show - although I was dismissive at first, I was hooked by the fifth or sixth episode, and was royally pissed off that the show had been shelved - and I hope his ill-treatment by FOX doesn't temper his enthusiasm for exploring new ideas. Expecting him to serve us up helping after helping of Buffyverse spinoff is a little too 'Misery' for my tastes, thank you very much!

[ edited by oodja on 2003-01-21 21:22 ]
Good points, oodja! If you really think Joss is God, watch what he creates next. Because so far, I haven't seen anything I didn't like, once I gave it a fighting chance (even though I don't think Joss is God).
Then how do you explain this?
"For there is no power but of God: the Powers That Be are ordained of God." Romans 13:1

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.



joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home