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July 03 2005

It's over for 'The Inside'. Fox tell Tim Minear they won't extend the options on the cast.

Bad news.... :(
I still hope they will air the 13 episodes.
It´s summer... not too much audience, so maybe...

[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2005-07-03 22:06 ]
Beep! Fox again. I knew I shouldn't have let myself get attached to a Fox-produced show..
Fox is really a very strange network. Green-lighting so many cool and innovative shows just to cancel them right away. Well, i guess this is going to be another Tim Minear Show i'll have to buy on DVD :)
I was wary of this happening since the start, but man, I really liked this week's episode! C'est la network tv, I guess.

Sorry to hear this, Tim and the gang.
I was really enjoying this show a lot.

I'm not surprised, but once again, I am disappointed.
*Darth Vader* Noooooooooooooooooooo!

I'm so tired of them taking away my favourite shows. :(
I am sorry for Tim.
Oh good grief! What is the deal with Fox? My condolances to Allyson, as well as ,you know, the writers, cast and crew. It was obvoius there was a lot of passion there. Even though I had not gotten into the show, I had been planning on giving it a chance and seeing where they would take it. (shakes head uncomprehendingly)
Why keep pushing this through so many iterations and filming so many versions of the pilot if they're going to drop it at the first hurdle? Yet again another show that when it finally comes to the UK I'll know for sure it's a limited run... Heh - Wonderfalls starts on Sky One this week, what timing.
Well. That was quick.

Wonder if Tim's been thinking about his next show yet.
This sucks. I hate Fox. Poor Tim. This is the THIRD time they've done this to him. I don't understand. This show had a great cast and crew. I'm never watching Fox again.
Was it rating badly? This is seriously annoying. Living in Australia, the only way we'll ever see it now is on multi-region DVD, like Wonderfalls (Channel 7 did show Firefly - at midnight!). There's so much rubbish on TV, it's just so disappointing that shows that push the envelope just get dropped.
I hope FOX gets eaten by a 900 lb cannibal. *fumes*
this can't be happening - not again! I'm stunned... :(
Maybe they're hopping to make another "Firefly": not being content with the first pilot, asking for another one, then cancelling the show after 13 episodes (but NOT broadcasting all the episodes). The next step is: the DVDs will be best sellers; then a feature movie will be made.

Hey, this worked once! I guess fox executives are thinking: "why not twice? Plus, if we do it to Minear who was involved the first time, this might actually work!".

Anyhow, I did not (and won't, obviously, since I live in France...) see any episode of The Inside so I can't be a good judge on the show but, here on the other side of the atlantic, I must confess that the way TV shows live or die in the US is quite un-understable, if you forgive me this neologism (which, I guess, could be some Buffy speak ;) ). It seems that the networks try everything without a clue if it can work or not (i.e. with very little professionnalism), and are thus then forced to cancel a great bunch of shows.
Damn you Fox, why do you keep doing this to Tim (and therefore me)?


[ edited by risingwaves on 2008-06-02 01:55 ]
As far as Tim's shows go, I think "The Inside" was probably his weakest effort yet, even though it had Jane Espenson, Adam Baldwin, Katie Finneran, and David Fury on the payroll. The first three episodes didn't really grab me, but I really enjoyed Jane's episode, so I will be said to see it go, now that I know it's true potential.
Poor Tim. Damn Fox. Jane Rules!
I knew it ! Just as I was getting addicted to this show. It started out slow but every episode has been getting better so far. I particularly enjoyed Jane Espenson's turn to the dark side.

I ought to be angry but this has just reached the point of being ridiculous.
Once more, ashow with great potential is dismissed. I tend to disagree about the fact that that is Tim's weakesteffort, the genre is very different, this is not a fantasy show, this is a murder show, and Tim and his team I think introduced something original, and did not fall into traps such as becoming a copycat of Profiler or CSI. The show has its own spirit, very good dialogue, and good plots too... As well as multiple reference to the whedonverse... (have you noticed the name of the movie played in the pre-filer episode at the cinema in the "stalker in the car" scene: 'Once More With Feelings')...
It's sad, I can't even bring myself to be disappointed. Because in order to be disappointed you first need to have expectations or atleast a hope. And considering that this is a FOX show that actually is good I couldn't expect or even muster up a hope that it would survive. They were so obviously gonna cancel it. It's what they do, it's their thing... Anything else, that's what would be a surprise. I've been disappointed so many times before, I'll be damned to end up there again.
I would like to add a special "Thank You!" to UPN for keeping Veronica Mars. If that show would have been on FOX it wouldn't have survived past the 3rd episode.
I just started watching it ! BLEEPING BLEEP. And it was becoming one of my favorites! *cries*
I remember reading somewhere (maybe even an article linked through here) that there's a basic revenue-sharing problem at the root of things like this. The movies seem to have it figured out (probably because of 20 years of videotape sales and rental), so the home/rental market revenue is part of the basic financial model and the related production decisions.

Television doesn't seem to have this figured out yet. There can be huge revenue flows from DVD (as there have been with Firefly), but they only go to the production company. The broadcast network doesn't get a cut of that (as far as I know), but they're the ones picking up the tab for the entire production cost, and they're the ones who make the cancellation decision. It's a broken financial model, and it's not to surprising that we see so many cancellations like this. (Although Fox seems to have a particularly "interesting" track record.)

Fixing the financial model might even help tilt the playing field towards better quality shows. Those reality series can't possibly have the same DVD sales potential as series like Wonderfalls. (And I should know better than to make predictions like that....)
*sigh* Can't say I'd buy the series on DVD, but it was just starting to get interesting with Jane E's episode. Bother. At least it's getting more aired eps than Wonderfalls. That's... something, right?
Yet another show that was getting better with each passing week axed after a few showings. You'd think that after the money Fox invested in the show they would at least give it some time to build an audience. Oh well. I'll keep Tivoing it and I'll buy the DVD set when it hits. Maybe fourth time is the charm for Tim and the gang.
Immediately hailed by critics as the third most cancelled show of all time... I paraphrase, therefore I am. Tim, thanks for some great work, once more. Another DVD box for my 'stuff that Fox should never have cancelled' shelf.
I also thought it was just starting to get interesting too. Nothing like giving a show a chance to attract an audience. Although I don't feel like this show lived up to the greatness of Firefly and quirkiness of Wonderfalls, it definitely was becoming more and more interesting as each week passed. I thought it was a hell of a lot more interesting than Tru Calling was and they gave that a full season. No offense to Tru Calling fans but why was that show allowed to try and grow an audience when superior shows are so quickly cancelled before they've even aired a handful of episodes. Why not give all new shows a chance to find an audience.

I hope this is the end of Tim's contract with Fox because obviously they have treated him very badly. Maybe he can find another network that will give his shows a chance.
My DVD collection keeps growing...I was hoping after season two of "Dead Like Me" comes out later this month, I could pay down my credit card needing only what should be a low priced season two of "Tru Calling" to have reached my goal of having everything of personal interest (yes, I'll buy the final two seasons of "La Femme Nikita" once eventually released as well), but now...I'll add "The Inside" to the list.
The broadcast network doesn't get a cut of that (as far as I know), but they're the ones picking up the tab for the entire production cost,

Actually they usually sell the show to the network for less than the production cost, knowing they'll recoup the money later if the show goes to DVD and syndication.
But, as you say, that's no incentive to the network. Maybe they should go back to 'in house' production where they will be motivated to keep a show on air, treating the airing of episodes as "Adverts" for the DVD sales. Or the prodcos could share DVD revenue 50/50, worth it if it keeps a show on air and they'll have more than 13 episodes to sell.
And we are still watching Fox, why? After so many times of this crap, I say it's time to boycott those mothas and make some noise, the way we've done to WB.

Maybe Tim can pitch Wonderfalls again, except with a new title! Heck, Fox would probably fall for it, considering how stupid they are. :)
Grr. Arrgh.
Be nice if Tim could sell a show to HBO or F/X. Like Dennis Leary said of The Job, it got 8 million viewers weekly on ABC and was considered a failure. Rescue Me gets half that on F/X and is considered a big success.
I hate to say it but I find it kind of a relief. Even though I was dedicated to watching it every week I was rather conflicted by its uneven quality in a way that I wasn't conflicted with Firefly and Wonderfalls.

It seemed strange to me that in a television environment where genre shows like Lost and Desperate Housewives are enormously popular that FOX would choose to put two of there best Fantasy/Comedy writers on a cop show. Hopefully Tim Minear and Jane Espenson will now move on to a project that better suites their talents.
Wow, this is really too bad. What a business. What a network. I, too, hope Tim, Jane, and Adam land on their feet after this. Each has such talent.
WHY do people keep working with Fox? They just don't give anything a chance! :(
This is just annoying the absoltue s*** out of me! I'm in Australia too, and I doubt we'll get to see any of the episodes.
"And we are still watching Fox, why?"

Well... because of Arrested Development (whose continued existence is still a source of baffled delight to me).

Sucks for Minear, but at least he has a good perspective on it and he's right: he sure keeps making interesting and different shows for those DVD box sets!
I think I'm just going to stop watching Network television with the exception of the Sunday lineup on fox (I'm sorry but they have the Simpsons and Arrested) and Scrubs.

And that pretty much has been the case anyway, go cable!
Well, not terribly surprised or disappointed. I thought the last episode was pretty good, but if that's the best I can say about a series...it's not saying much.

I guess Joss brings out the best in the people he works with, because I haven't seen a show yet by an ex-Whedon writer/producer that was as good as the stuff he put out.

I wonder what this means for The Inside Comicon panel...
Fox must know they don't give shows very long to catch on, right? And the premise behind THE INSIDE was the "battle for Rebecca's soul" thing between Webster and the other guy (I have to admit I can never remember his character's name). So they know that's an idea that takes time to develop. So if they know their way of doing things is a show must bring in X numbers within 2 or 3 episodes, why would they greenlight a show like THE INSIDE in first place?!

Anybody know what Tim's next project is going to be after seeing a couple of great L.A. punk rock bands?
Saying that this show or that show doesn't come up to Joss Whedon's standards is like saying a work of art isn't the Mona Lisa...I mean, "duh"! If a show is better than 99% of the trash on TV, it still deserves to be continued. I'm a huge racing fan and I loved Smarty Jones even though he wasn't as great as Secretariat!
"And we are still watching Fox, why?"

Well... because of Arrested Development (whose continued existence is still a source of baffled delight to me).


Incidently, for those Ozzies online. I brought the entire first season boxset to this last week for only $19.95 at Big W.
Total bargain people!
Well in all honesty the show hadn't really hooked me yet. Everything felt kind of derivative and middle-of-the-road and none of the characters really did much for me. But it was a decent show and as good or better as most of the stuff out there. It'd watch it over CSI (which always looks extremely bland and formulaic to me) and that's a huge success for some reason. (that whole safe common denominator thing)

I am surprised at this though. I haven't kept track of the ratings and I suppose they weren't very good but still, I don't think it's been given a fair chance here. Which of course isn't a new thing for Fox. (Firefly, Wonderfalls, etc. etc. etc.) The only show they gave more than a fair chance was Tru Calling which was (in spite of Eliza) the blandest of that lot.
I know it doesn't do any good, but I sent a feedback message to Fox at askfox@foxinc.com concerning the possible cancellation of The Inside and sharing a few of my feelings with them - nicely, of course. It can't hurt.
well i'm glad other people are watching arrested development too. if people would just get the first season dvd they would get hooked as well. Steve Holt!
Heh heh Steve Holt!

I actually brought it without ever seeing an episode. I just knew you guys on here had spoken about it a few times and enjoyed it. I'm glad I listened.

[ edited by nixygirl on 2005-07-04 04:28 ]
"And we are still watching Fox, why? "

Well, I'm not. I made an exception for "The Inside," and after Jane Espenson's episode, I began to appreciate its potential. Beyond this, I can't think of a show I watch on FOX.
And we are still watching Fox, why?

well i'm not watching it - i now have it blocked on my tv, so when clicking around for something to watch all i get is a black screen when i click past it. i know not to invest any time on a show that airs on fox and even if joss ends up back there with the greatest tv show of all time i'll be taking a pass. so it would be ever so nice if folks like tim and joss would try to work with some other network, for crying out loud.
And we are still watching Fox, why?

Because despite their tendency to cancel shows without really giving them a chance (I started watching Firefly knowing FOX's record and was pretty much not surprised when it got cancelled -- not surprised, but angry), they have the most interesting programming of any major network. Which is why they frustrate me (and other viewers) unlike any other network.

And Arrested Development alone is too good, no, GREAT, to give up.

I can't say I'm torn up too much about this: I caught much of the second ep, had mixed feelings about it (the genre doesn't appeal to me, and the lead actress definitely didn't appeal to me) and was waiting to see if later episodes would get into something I found more interesting. I guess I'll never know now.
Should we start taking bets? How many more shows, until the responsible *cough* at Fox realize, that their expectations are unrealistic, their treatment of the shows is not helping and that more and more people don't even care about getting into any new shows on Fox, because they will just be cancelled anyway? Maybe after another 20 10-episode shows they will start realizing, that the problem wasn't the quality of the shows, but their own astonishing incompetence (which seems to be blatantly obvious to everybody on this planet except for themselves)?
After this, can we consider Adam Baldwin to be a curse? Firefly, Angel, The Inside, all dead within half a season of his first appearing. I think this should be a fair warning to producers anywhere.
So very not surprised by this news. I've watched every episode of The Insider -- making an exception for this type of show -- and have been enjoying it, so I knew it couldn't possibly last.

Hard-bought fatalism courtesy of Fox notwithstanding, I hope TM will eventually create something for television (if he still wants to, after this) that doesn't wind up getting strangled in the figurative crib before it's barely had time to wipe the crap off its face and take a deep breath. No matter how well he understands the workings of Hollywood, being kicked in the teeth over and over again has to be a disheartening experience, and it makes me sad that while many of us are floundering in a sea of lowest-common-denominator dreck, the bits of better-quality programming we try to cling to are just flotsam that generally end up being smashed by the waves.

If a show like The Inside, so clearly written to appeal to a broader demo than any of TM's Joss-versian efforts, can't be a success, then what the hell else can the man do? Seems to me Joss had the right idea: Stay away from TV until the power people there grow some balls a brain.
Well, not terribly surprised or disappointed. I thought the last episode was pretty good, but if that's the best I can say about a series...it's not saying much.

In all fairness, if Buffy premiered right now, it would have been canceled after the first five episodes, and few would cry. Its first season was uneven, rocky. IMHO, Firefly completely blew chunks until OoG, and even then, there was a small handful of genuinely good episodes.

I loved The Inside, dearly. I'm looking forward to buying the DVDs so I can see Declawed, Aidan, and Little Girl Lost, my favorite reads.

I'm sorry it didn't find an audience. Breaks my heart.
This is just ridiculous. What's next? Will future Fox shows get a one episode shot at making it?
Damn! Tim can't seem to catch a break. No surprise from the FOX network. BTW, how many episodes aired?
I was enjoying this show and, like many here, am disappointed by this sad news. Three episodes and you're out? I find this hard to believe! Fox really does s***, but we have known this a while now.

I will miss seeing Adam Baldwin every week, he is my favorite but I was also enjoying the other characters from the show too. I wish Tim better luck with projects in the future.
Poor Tim. This is insanity. I can't remember the last time I've been so pissed at a network (oh wait, it was with FOX and TRU CALLING). There has got to be a better network for his shows. I am so done with FOX (except to watch the OC...)
Aw. I'll miss it. Can't say I didn't expect it, though, what with Fox premiering it in the summer and all. Which, I'm still sad, just not surprised.

In all fairness, if Buffy premiered right now, it would have been canceled after the first five episodes, and few would cry. Its first season was uneven, rocky. IMHO, Firefly completely blew chunks until OoG, and even then, there was a small handful of genuinely good episodes.

I never felt this way when I watched the first season. Sure, there are some goofy episodes (which, quite honestly, I enjoy, sometimes), but (in my opinion, of course), the first season only pales in retrospect, when you know how brilliant the show ends up becoming.

I do agree that Firefly had bit of a shakier start (a weird thing to say about a show that only got 13 episodes, I know). Whenever I'm doing the "convert" thing, I have to hope they'll stick with it through those first few episodes (don't worry, most of them give in sometimes around "Our Mrs. Reynolds.") But don't get me wrong, I love the show. In Firefly's case, I think the earlier episodes are actually better in retrospect, watching them after you know the characters.

[ edited by VampiresSuckLOLOLGetIt on 2005-07-04 16:39 ]
Just three episodes? That's boarderline to being silly.
Actually, from Tim's post they told him Thursday, which was the day after the fourth episode aired. Doesn't make it any better. Maybe we need a prefiler to fire Fox execs before they cancel great shows.
In defense of Firefly, Fox showed it out of order and if shown in order most likely would've done better. And I loved season one of Buffy. I've found The Inside interesting so far. Not instant love like I did Buffy and Firefly. I thought this last episode was it's best so far. But, even though I felt Buffy and Firefly grabbed me immediately that is a rare thing in tv land to instantly get the characters and the feel of the show. Most shows need time to develop the characters and let people get engulfed in the story. A better example to compare The Inside to would've been The X-Files which had poor ratings in the beginning but went on to be one of Fox's most successful shows. The X-Files, if aired today, would most likely not have gotten more than a handful of episodes as well. Cheers was another slow starting show that would've never made it in this hostile, cancel happy tv land!
"I hope this is the end of Tim's contract with Fox because obviously they have treated him very badly. Maybe he can find another network that will give his shows a chance. - Firefly Flanatic"

Add me to the list of folks hoping the same. I seem to recall hearing or seeing something quite awhile ago to the effect that he had a three show deal of some kind. I hope this was number three.

On the plus side this means he can go back to working on "The Moon's a Harsh Mistress" or...work on the Serenity sequel, which he said he'd really like to do.

...and we don't have to feel dirty for watching F*X
How many times do we stand idly by while FOX teases us and then rips out our hearts? I knew I shouldn't have gotten attached to this show, but I really liked it. And now FOX has done it to me again. Guess none of us learned the lesson the past three or four times, eh? Delete FOX from your TV's!!!
Sorry, but Fox is showing the two most intelligent, best-written shows on network television: House and Family Guy. So I'm afraid deleting them would deny me that, and that is something I shall not do. *grin*
Sorry, but Fox is showing the two most intelligent, best-written shows on network television: House and Family Guy. So I'm afraid deleting them would deny me that, and that is something I shall not do. *grin*

Yep. While my Fox shows of choice differ from yours...I just have to watch the shows independent of the networks they're on. Ya know, seperate the two. Which is why I can't "delete" networks. After all, it wouldn't be fair to let Arrested Development suffer for Fox's mistakes, now would it?

[ edited by VampiresSuckLOLOLGetIt on 2005-07-04 20:18 ]
I have to agree that whilst FOX have continually let me down over the years there's no way I could stop watching Arrested Development nor Family Guy. Thankfully, not living in the US, my watching both has much less effect :)
"I hope this is the end of Tim's contract with Fox because obviously they have treated him very badly. Maybe he can find another network that will give his shows a chance. - Firefly Flanatic"

Tim doesn't have a contract with the network (FBC). He has a deal with the studio (20th) which are two different entities.
Have to add my love of House and Family Guy. But I would also never boycott shows I love because one show I liked got cancelled. This obviously isn't the case with The Inside, but for instance I'm not giving up my Gilmore Girls because Angel got axed. We're not a Nielson family, so it won't hurt the network at all, and it will just deprive us of some of the few decent shows left. If there's nothing on the station you like to watch, it doesn't matter anyway, does it? And if there is something you like, you're just hurting yourself. It's like cutting off your thumb to spite the networks or something...
In all fairness, if Buffy premiered right now, it would have been canceled after the first five episodes, and few would cry. Its first season was uneven, rocky


True, but it's a little silly and very unfair to compare Buffy's first season to the Inside's. With Buffy S1 Joss was inexperienced and was learning from scratch. Tim is already a seasoned vet with the Inside. And frankly, in spite of the obviousness of how BtVS was trying to 'find itself' and the inexperience of many involved, it caught my attention quicker on a character level than The Inside has so far.

IMHO, Firefly completely blew chunks until OoG, and even then, there was a small handful of genuinely good episodes.


Well obviously, tastes differ, but the comparison with FF is better at least in the sense that everyone on board was experienced when they started. But for myself at least, the storyline overall, and especially the characters and their relationships already grabbed me more in just the pilot then all the Inside eps combined.

The Inside was a decent show so far, but very much by the numbers. It just didn't do all that much for me yet and the characters felt a bit bland. (Especially the lead which I find hard to overlook in any show) And though I love this genre as much as Tim probably does, I did not see anything in there that I hadn't seen done already (and often better) on plenty of other shows and movies. With BtVS, FF and Wonderfalls I was seeing something fresh and original. A new take or mix of their genres.

I do feel The Inside should've gotten at least a season (Like Tru Calling did) to have room to develop. And I think it could've done so nicely, but even if I have to go by just the first 4 eps, I like all the the mentioned shows better than the Inside. But as I said, tastes differ I suppose.

[ edited by EdDantes on 2005-07-04 20:35 ]
From TM: I tell stories over time, and it adds up to a thing. Though maybe that "first impressions" strategy is what I'll employ next time.

Especially when you're on FOX!
I doubt I would have ever come to love this series (too needlessly gruesome, characters not that loveable) yet it was improving the central relationships each week and the storytelling was tight & involving. I'll be netflixing the DVD boxset

On the other hand, Minear, Noxon, Espenson & Edland are all out of work. Let's get going on a Spike or Faith series. Come on WB.
It will get a DVD set yeah? everyone seems to be assuming that, but is it a given?
sojourner, it does seem to be a given.
If a show looks and sounds interesting, even if it is on Fox, I'll give it a chance. Yes, it pisses me off tremedously how Fox so quickly cancels a series but I do not regret ever watching Firefly. I don't see the purpose in punishing a show by not watching because of anger at the network it's on. I'd have missed out on a lot of great shows if I did that with every network that has cancelled a show I liked. And I probably would've run out of networks to watch too.
The Inside was a decent show so far, but very much by the numbers. It just didn't do all that much for me yet and the characters felt a bit bland.

hm, maybe this is why the show never really caught me -- it was very much the case of characters serving the story, rather than the reverse. Maybe I would have eventually caught on to the concept, but I guess we'll never know now.
"So they know that's an idea that takes time to develop. So if they know their way of doing things is a show must bring in X numbers within 2 or 3 episodes, why would they greenlight a show like THE INSIDE in first place?!" - batmarlowe.

My thoughts exactly! WTF! This show clearly would have had huge character arcs that took time. Giving it only 4 episodes is just cruel.
That does it. "Fox" is now officially a dirty word.

And we are still watching Fox, why?

Because creative types whom we love keep on working with them! Maybe Minear should have a clause written in to his contract that states no show he is involved with can be shopped to F*x.
i live in Aus too, so i'll never see it...dam fox. dam them all too hell! it really is pathetic to just cancel a show after the first eps! i meen really! its disgraceful and is incredibley slack too all those who spent ages time getting it up and running and then when the dream has come true...cancel it after 4 episodes.
Oh silly Fox, will you ever learn... to stop sucking so hard?

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