My favorite quote? "George Lucas should be utterly shamed by the existence of Firefly."

Well, exactly. I love that this guy is pushing Firefly. You're right, MissKittysMom, giving the DVDs to anyone who is open and/or those who will tolerate being forced to watch them is where it's at.

phlebotinin | July 06, 23:41 CET

Wow -- those "guerilla" posters are amazing! I think one of those is gonna be my new desktop for a while.

rbt | July 06, 23:42 CET

If I only had a printer I would've put those up all around my neighborhood by now.

eddy | July 07, 00:17 CET

Good site, and some good comments from prople there.

The use of the "From the mind that gave you Buffy and Angel" in the trailer should get B/A fans to see Serenity AND get people who see and like Serenity to give Buffy and Angel a chance if they haven't seen them before.

And love the posters.

Great idea Eddy. let's all print a few dozen copies and post them everywhere. Should get some attention!

[ edited by zz9 on 2005-07-06 22:20 ]

zz9 | July 07, 00:19 CET

very cool

nakedandarticulate | July 07, 00:20 CET

I'm surprised people haven't seen those posters before - they've been around for months! Can't remember the link for the marketing site though...was it in the article somewhere?

Grounded | July 07, 00:38 CET

Yeah its in the article. The site has pdf files that you can print out.

eddy | July 07, 00:57 CET

I'd just like to know how everyone is able to almost force their friends to watch this stuff. Everyone I know all but rolls their eyes when I bring it up, however gingerly, and some of them are pretty big geeks themselves, so it's not like their innately hostile....and part of my day job involve sales!

bobster | July 07, 00:58 CET

The link to the 11th Hour Art guerilla posters site is indeed in the article, Grounded. Look for the link "their own posters." It'll take you to 11th Hour Art. You're right that these posters and the link to them have been around for months. They've been linked to from Whedonesque and Flickr several times. But no harm in linking to them again.

phlebotinin | July 07, 00:58 CET

I enjoyed reading most of the comments below Michael's article - the usual bunch of well-informed and insightful browncoats, - save the one who rolls out the ever in vogue "Joss is a talentless hack and all his adoring fans are drinking Kool-Aid" line. I can only assume it must be a personal grudge; otherwise, wouldn't one try to, well, understand why so many smart and literate people are so into his work, instead of making such farcical blanket criticisms? Or would that be too boring and difficult to accomplish? Feh.

bobster, you and I have talked about this. Certain members - I'm talking to you, ChrisInVirginia, - seem to have no difficulty with the converts. Personally, I've actually had much better success with Buffy than I have with Firefly, which, to me at least, is somewhat counter-intuitive. I now have two circulating DVD sets of FF, and still have yet to make a solid BC of anyone . . .

SoddingNancyTribe | July 07, 01:04 CET

SNT -- didja notice how stuck on politics that commenter was? I think he might have ISSUES. ;)

orphea | July 07, 01:14 CET

Chris in Virginia is a remarkable Whedonvangelizer. People having trouble with the same should sit metaphorically at his knee and solicit his tips. It's crazy how many people he's converted to Buffy/Angel and Firefly.

I agree about the general reasonableness of the comments to Michael's article. A rare thing out there in blogland, in my experience. The Joss Hater, though, wow. His rant was so.....extended. I get that tastes differ but the level of hate in that post, along with the level of hate in similar anti-Joss rants I've read is weird to me. It feels oddly personal. I agree with you, SNT, about the at least trying to understand why the Whedonverse is so acclaimed. Ah, well, might he count as the exception that proves the The Whedonverse is Excellent rule?

phlebotinin | July 07, 01:28 CET

I disagree with Totten about most things political, but I have to give him credit for a well-written and insightful post about Firefly. Interesting comments, too.

The one I found most intriguing was from the person who sent a copy to his friend serving in Afghanistan. Seems to me Firefly could be very popular among the troops, if there were a semi-organized effort to get copies of the DVDs in their hands...

tehipite_tom | July 07, 02:08 CET

I get that tastes differ but the level of hate in that post, along with the level of hate in similar anti-Joss rants I've read is weird to me. It feels oddly personal.

I think it was probably Joss' wife's ex-boyfriend.
;-)

tehipite_tom | July 07, 02:09 CET

Pretty much agree with everyone's take here; there always seems to be one (or a few) who must rain on everybody's parade. When I read something extremely negative, I find myself looking for clues that give insight into intent. In this case, the total misrepresentation of "Buffy" themes and the incorrect claim that Spike raped Buffy leads me to believe that the poster isn't one to allow facts to get in the way of his opinions. Does feel a bit personal, can't visualize Joss taking another kid's lunch money but....

Calledon | July 07, 02:23 CET

Seems to me Firefly could be very popular among the troops, if there were a semi-organized effort to get copies of the DVDs in their hands...

I'm pretty sure there has already been one.

Grounded | July 07, 02:36 CET

Yup, I believe Fireflyfans.net did a whole campaign to donate dvd sets to the troops and it was a big success.

Great review of the series and just from reading the posts it seems to have done it's job of attracting new viewers. Several said they would now buy or rent the dvd set.

I particularly liked the guy who posted about singing the theme song everytime he watched the dvd and then rewinding to sing it again but now his wife will only allow him to sing it once per viewing!! I love the song and could listen to it all day. Before Firefly, BtVS theme was my all time favorite theme song but there is just something about Joss' ballad that gets to me everytime and it is so moving to listen too.

Firefly Flanatic | July 07, 02:43 CET

Seems to me Firefly could be very popular among the troops, if there were a semi-organized effort to get copies of the DVDs in their hands...

I'm pretty sure there has already been one.

There certainly has. To read more about it go here:

http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly/messages?msg=11894.1

[ edited by Znachki on 2005-07-07 00:51 ]

[ edited by Znachki on 2005-07-07 00:52 ]

Znachki | July 07, 02:49 CET

Well it certainly gets points for being easier to sing . . . I love the oomph of the Nerfherders, but there is something magical about that twangy guitar intro. I've just started watching Deadwood from Netflix - and yes, thank you all you recommenders, particularly you, Willowy. You were right. It's an incredibly good show, and I'm completely hooked, - and the theme tune, or at least its genre, is similar enough to FF's that I get a little frisson when it starts up . . .

SoddingNancyTribe | July 07, 02:55 CET

Yup, I believe Fireflyfans.net did a whole campaign to donate dvd sets to the troops and it was a big success.

Cool. It seemed like the sort of thing that would already have been done; I just hadn't been aware of it yet. Thanks for the info.

tehipite_tom | July 07, 03:15 CET

Can't really explain whay, but I loved this line from the article:

(...)Firefly’s fans pitched an epic-sized fit. They threw such a big fit that Hollywood decided to let Joss Whedon finish telling the story on the big screen. So Firefly will continue, in theaters this September, as Serenity.

Hope, all of this turns up really as a good sign when the movie really comes out.

Numfar PTB | July 07, 03:43 CET

I am an extremely non-evangelical person in general and quite an introvert. That said, I have created one Buffy-fan and have been trying hard not to make one Joss-hater. I have one friend who just bristles whenever I mention Joss. As far as I know, he has never seen any of Joss's work but he gets so hostile that I have not wanted to push matters. He seems to be jealous or something. I actually gritted my teeth and asked him if he wanted to go to the Serenity preview with me when I had an extra ticket, because I figured sitting in a movie theater would seem like a more natural experience and help him be more open minded. Strange, I know, but true. He did not accept, of course, though he did say that he would have if it had not been a week night...so...progress, I guess. In many ways I was glad he did not go because I might not have enjoyed it as much, being distracted by wondering if he was enjoying it.

I do not really want him to become a "fan" necessarily (fat chance) but I would like to be able to mention Joss without getting attitude. To do that, I definately need to make sure I do not create a Joss-hater. Ugh, this kind of thing drives me crazy and I just don't get it. If you do not like someone's work or even that a certain group of people really do like their work, just don't watch/read/look at it...or their fans. Why all the venom? If you do not know someone's work and a friend who you claim to think is intellegent and with whom you have been going to movies for 25 years or so without having a huge disagreement (one loved / one hated) in that time, why would Joss Whedon's name delete that history and cause all paths into the brain to shut down?

Ok, enough.

newcj | July 07, 03:49 CET

Come to think of it, it really is interesting how many political writers are attracted to Whedon's stuff. We've seen from the hard right (The Weekly Standard, National Review Online), this article from the center/"hawkish liberal" (isn't that what Neocons used to be?) end, and, though I can't think of the names, lots of lefty/progressive pubs as well (though I can't think of one right now...Village Voice?). I also seem to remember Ayn Randers at some point too.

Who's next? We need to get the Maoists (somebody send Bob Avakian a boxed set!), the Anarcho-Syndicalists, any available Fascists/Bundt types, "Patriot" groups, Lesbian separatists, and the Lyndon Larouchians involved. "Fringe Groups for Firefly"! ;)

[ edited by bobster on 2005-07-07 02:17 ]

bobster | July 07, 04:16 CET

So just how many converts has ChrisinVirginia made? What's your secret? And how many more have they made? I have converted several family groups. I converted three members in one family, who in turn have converted three more people. Now that I have sets of DVDs that are just for lending, I have waiting lists! (I have also converted several people to Buffy and/or Angel, being a recent - and fervent - convert myself, even though I was a Firefly fan from the first showing of "Train Job".)

samatwitch | July 07, 04:56 CET

Seems to me Firefly could be very popular among the troops, if there were a semi-organized effort to get copies of the DVDs in their hands...

Yep, Fireflyfans.net did one and the Whedonverse Multimedia Project plans to send out a couple of care packages as well.

killinj | July 07, 06:23 CET

Its definitely way easier if your friends already look to you for the heads up on stuff like this - I've long been a music/movie/show pimp, so... I've managed 15 direct converts myself and 6 or so from my converts converting others. Speaking of which, I should go check and see if the 'verse multimedia project is closer to their goal and so should all of you if you can spare a couple bones to spread the Joss-love :)

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-07-07 04:37 ]

zeitgeist | July 07, 06:33 CET

samatwitch, I have no certain number, but it's got to be over a hundred people and actually, probably a bunch more, who are in the Whedon circle due to me begging, praying, and sometimes even paying to get them in...talk about a labor of love!

There's no secret method...just tireless enthusiasm and tenacity, I guess...a former college girlfriend (who is and has been for ages a dear sweet friend) was angrily dismissive of Buffy...for about 4 years! I worked on her as carefully as I could (sending snippets of fabulous dialouge that were totally germane to a situation she was going through, and such), all to no avail, until I somehow finally broke through. She's totally hooked, is on Season 4, has converted a friend of hers who is maniacally addicted...I guess it largely comes down to persistence...

My cousin and his family are hooked...a few families at where I used to work--completely addicted (to all three shows)....friends I met at a Fark party a few weeks ago--on Season 2 of Buffy and thirsting for more...

And, yes, samawitch, the multiplier effect kicks in...my old college pal Jennifer watches Firefly and her brother, who is an interpreter of Mandarin and English is nearby and hears the dialogue and is intrigued...and he tells his colleagues about this incredible show...

SNT, there have been incredible difficulties...sometimes nearly to the point where I had to stop talking about it because it threatened friendship--that former girlfriend mentioned above once said to me "You know, I have this memory of you being really smart and cool--don't ruin that for me!" I backed off, but slowly insinuated my way back...a week ago, I wrote, "Aren't you glad I'm a persistent bastard?" In size 8 font she wrote, "Yeah, yeah, yeah...actually, yes, I am, very glad indeed."

Again, peristence pays!

Chris inVirginia | July 07, 09:04 CET

I caught two of my workmates in a heated argument the other day - about who had dibs on my Buffy season 4 disk 5 next. Had to laugh. To be honest, I've found Firefly on the whole easier than Buffy. There are so many Buffy fans out there, that the uninitiated can be pretty scornful. With the eye-rolling types, I actually don't mention Joss in connection to Firefly, just give them the set and say it is a sci-fi show I think they'll like. Given what shite is on telly these days, most people appreciate something with a plot. It's good satisfaction afterwards when I point out that its a Joss show. I've not known anyone not to like it if they get through the pilot and the next episode.

sojourner | July 07, 09:32 CET

Who's next? We need to get the Maoists (somebody send Bob Avakian a boxed set!), the Anarcho-Syndicalists, any available Fascists/Bundt types, "Patriot" groups, Lesbian separatists, and the Lyndon Larouchians involved. "Fringe Groups for Firefly"! ;)

Bobster, you just made me spit my coffee out all over my keyboard!

Put me down as a Left-wing Commie Antichrist University Sociology Professor for Firefly.
I've got three family birthdays coming up. Guess what everyone is getting for their birthdays?

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2005-07-07 08:47 ]

Nebula1400 | July 07, 10:45 CET

Actually, Nebs, you could have just written Sociology Professor and we would have inferred the rest . . . hey, only joking!

ChrisInVirginia: *love* your persistence. Trouble is, I've moved around too much in the last 10 years to have a firm friend base - but I'll keep on at it.

SoddingNancyTribe | July 07, 19:35 CET

Who's next? We need to get the Maoists (somebody send Bob Avakian a boxed set!),

LOL! Now there's a name I've not heard in years...not since I was going to Berkeley High, which is a good deal longer ago than I care to admit...

tehipite_tom | July 07, 19:45 CET

SNT, I've bought multiple copies of all the DVD sets and mail them out (usually along with my prize-winning pepper jelly) to friends all over the US and to Europe as well...my wife says I need to have an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of who has what (I nearly delivered a Dawny superspoiler to a friend I thought was on Season 6, but is on Season 4 the other day!), but that horse left the barn literally a few years ago!

Chris inVirginia | July 07, 20:13 CET

Having the pleasure of being a friend of Chris in Virginia's, I can attest to his personality playing a large role in his expertly played conversions. (Although I wasn't converted by CiV; when I met him I was already a goner for Joss.) He's remarkably warm, friendly, personable and persuasive. And then there's the never-give-up mentality. Persistence wins out, evidently. So everyone, keep trying! Per CiV, sometimes you have to lie low a bit inbetween bouts of attempted persuasion, but that's all part of the grand game.

phlebotinin | July 07, 20:15 CET

Thanks for the tips, ChrisinVirginia. I'll keep trying to reach your heights, even though I'm far behind. I find that I've been so enthusiastic about seeing "Serenity" twice that people are actually asking me about the series.

And, phlebotinin, I have a soft spot for CiV as he was the first one to say welcome to Whedonesque after my first post!

samatwitch | July 07, 21:20 CET