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July 25 2005

Joss Is Too Busy To Work On A Spike Movie (apparently). Janollari deserves a couple of points for adding a new excuse to one of his generic answers.

Well, you have to admire the WB's timing for its latest explanation of why we wn't have a Spike movie for some time. Also, James will also be busy in his new show, "Smallville." But James has said if there is a Spike movie, it must happen soon, because he may be getting too old for the role.
LIP SERVICE. Nuff Said.
Select your response from the following:

1) How can Joss be available sometime this year if he hasn't even started writing the script for Wonder Woman? Also won't he doing some preliminary work for his directing?

2) This is the best news in ages, I really hope this Spike movie happens.

3) I wouldn't trust the WB if you paid me. It's an new excuse. They axed Angel, the swines! And they blamed Joss for that as well! Swines!

4) Eh I'd much rather he did a Serenity sequel.

5) No mention of Clem? Denied!
And near the bottom it says that Tom Welling announced that James Marsters would be doing 6 episodes on Smallville as Braniac. That's good news for James.
How can Joss be available sometime this year if he hasn't even started writing the script for Wonder Woman? Also won't he doing some preliminary work for his directing?


I thought Joss was in Cape Cod working on the script?
He'll say anything to disguise the fact that's he on a fishing trip :P.
Kudos to Ausiello for asking the question though!!! Poor guy had to get a root canal, but he still managed to keep pressing the WB on this topic.
Joss Whedon. Busy man. *nods*

Mmm.. I'm gonna need an extra set of eyeballs to watch 'Smallville' with this year. I think my head (and other parts) will explode if they put JM onscreen with Lex, Lionel AND Clark at any point in Season 5...

Too..much..sexual potential.. Cannot..look..away.. Must..jump..ONE of their bones.. GAHHHHHH!!! *boom.. splat*
I suppose there's a chance that The WB will fast track a Spike movie if James has a successful run on Smallville.

When you think about it, casting James is pretty much stunt casting. The WB knows he has a big fan base, so it makes sense to add him to the show. The WB moved Smallville to Thursday, which means that it has to go head to head with Survivor, The OC, Everybody Hates Chris, NBC sitcoms and Alias. If there's a noticeable rise in the ratings when James appears, The WB might actually do something about a Spike movie.
Personally I hope Joss tells them to go fly a kite, but uses other words that rhyme with 'so shruck a fobglammed boat ewe fashbowls'.
The WB knows he has a big fan base, so it makes sense to add him to the show.


Wasn't that partly the rationale for him guesting on the Mountain? There was a distinct lack of improvement in the ratings for that particular episode, from what I can remember.
I choose number 1. and 4. Yay for Serenity sequels.
Can I select more than 1, cause I want 5 and 3.

Also "The Mountain" the rating numbers actually continued it's drop when James was on - so his fan base didn't make any difference. They had wanted him to be a recurring character on that show as well.
Why did James cut off his hair if he wants to still play spike?
I'm guessing he retained the ability to grow hair in spite of WB wanting him to sign away the rights :) Plus its a dramatic gesture to mark the occasion of what may have been his last hurrah as the character.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-07-25 18:11 ]
I thought the Mountain was dead even before James?

It just seems like casting James on Smallville was a WB decision. Just sayin’.
The Mountain was on its way downhill already. Apparently not even mad stuntcasting could save it...
Yeah, I saw that shoe dropping.
I remember there being some concern from JM's fans that "The Mountain" might be cancelled before they got to see his episode, so the show was well in the tank before he arrived on the scene.
I don't think Spike fans or JM fans alone can make a tv movie rating or money worthy. They gave Angel an artifical bump, but after 6 eps he slid again. Angel's final averge for the season was a 2.8. The season before had been a 2.7. Third season had been a 2.9. I tend to think season 5 did better because of a better writting, but character wise all it did was sacrafice one beloved character and her fanbase(cordy/CC) for another. I have always believed you needed more then any one character to make any tv movie profitable both for the WB and for 20th century Fox. Maybe Spike, Faith and Illyara. But they cancelled Angel for his ratings, and that was all the characters fanbases , including JM/Spike one. So logically, his by himself would not be enough either.

Smallville has gone on record saying this will NOT be it's last season, it is still well above the 2.6 range that Charmed has recieved going into this season, and with the Superman movie coming out, I don't see it in any way beng in danger.

Six eps is not enough to give the season a jumpstart in the ratings, as the most likely will be scattered through. Remember Angel's first 6 eps were in the low 3.0 and then dropped, but that did get it noticed but the investors or the WB. Nor since in possibly his first couple since JM will be in it for only a scene or two, will they be able to ONLY attribute the ratings high or decrease to him. His first ep has both Aqualad and fan favorite Lois Lane, who has now been added to the credits.I would tend to think, no offence to JM, that the Tom Wompat ep will be the one to score of the charts, or when he is actaully unvield as Brainiac. There is also talk of another superhero coming in the second part of the season. Basicaly unles JM is the only story, with no guest and the ratings are consistant, they will not able to say he did good or bad to the ratings.

Off Topic..is it me or does not the Mountain and the Bastard sound alot alike????

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-07-25 19:23 ]
Hey, OT, did anyone else hear that via PAD's comic, we find out Spike's full name is William Pratt???

Isn't that horrible??

Or maybe it's just me...
Apparently The WB are confused, as joss has just started working on Wonder Woman as the Serenity post has just finished (which was always the plan).

Ultimately, with a potential Serenity sequel (under contract) and Wonder Woman, you know - this just ain't gonna happen unless I'm missing something big.
And the way Serinity is gaining ALOT of steam latley, with the comic out, and all the prescreening that are going to be added to the total tally at the end, I would (knock on wood) think it almost a done deal fro a sequel.

Here is the question of all the sold out screenings, how many will NOT go back and see the final finished product on opening day, even if you did go to SDCC?

I read somewhere he was working on the script now, At least I could have sworn I read that.

That last name is as bad as Faith Lehane.

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-07-25 19:32 ]
Well only 6 eps are hardly a full season's worth of work so James should have a decent availability if this happens. But with the WB saying this out loud several times, the ball seems to be in Joss' court at least as appearances go. (Who the hell knows what goes on behind the curtains, after all)

I think any Buffyverse TV movie should do at least as well as many of the so called 'originals' out there. After all, a 'sci fi original' movie usually has a bunch of nobodies starring as a bunch of characters no one's ever heard of and they generally do well enough for the station. Not always obviously... but if they have any popular characters in there like Spike, Faith, Willow, etc. I assume most of the Buffy/Angel crowd would watch it. But then, with the severely flawed Nielsen system...

I think the key would be promotion, since not every soul that liked Joss' shows checks sites like these.

Hey, OT, did anyone else hear that via PAD's comic, we find out Spike's full name is William Pratt???

William the Bloody Pratt.....yeahh. Good one, PAD. And extra funny since fanfiction writers usually dub him with grand british names like 'Worthington' or something. Lotta dissappointed people I imagine, hehe.
It fails to surprise me that PAD would go for the cheap laugh :)
No mention of it on his website that I can see.
Sci-fi does not have to get the raitng that a station like the WB has to. Even for the WB what Sci-fi gets is too low to bring in money or advertisers.

The more characters, the higher chance for a movie to be profitable and watched. But this is the same station that never promoted Angel, when it had him,so I worry about them having a tv movie and doing the same.


Pratt...heeheh that is funny. Makes as much sense as LeHane. There were alot of not happy people when that was revealed, so I do not doubt the same rumblings here.

Here is section from the comic. I recieved this via email from a comic list I am on:

Halfrek calls him by the name William Pratt. Spike responds that William Pratt is dead. He calls her Cecily, and she corrects him. It was always Halfrek. Well, he’s Spike. “It was always Spike! Even when I was simpering William Pratt, Spike was in here, waiting for someone who could truly appreciate me to unleash him!”

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-07-25 19:48 ]
I'm pretty sure that there's an option to extend his stay on the show.

That said, you're right, FalenAnjl. Having James on the show isn't likely to increase ratings, but I think the WB just want to try him out anyway. Thursday night is a clusterf*uck, any help they can get is welcomed.

Warner Bros won't kick off the Superman Returns promo machine until 2006, and even then Smallville still has to go up against Survivor, so who knows if Superman fans (who abandoned the show during S4) will remember that the show still exists.

[ edited by VJP666 on 2005-07-25 19:51 ]
Pratt.....this room amazes me time and again. You people are wonderful:)
This year certain things like the Fortress of Solitude, Lois, new superhero's and Brianiac might be enough. ANYTHING would be better then last year and their Lana is god fixation.Plus there are some special connections between the show and movie to entice the fans back.

There is an option to extend eps, but unless they plan on killing Brianiac, once he does his damage to Lex and Clark, the real story will then be Clark finally accepting his destiny and Lex subcoming to his. I would expect since the show will mostly likely come back next year, for Brianiac to come back some time then too.
I hope there never is a Spike movie. I know as far as canon is concerned Spike lives, but I prefer to think that everyone died in the alleyway, because it fit in better with the existential core of the show. So I really don't want to see those characters continued.
I hope there never is a Spike movie. I know as far as canon is concerned Spike lives, but I prefer to think that everyone died in the alleyway, because it fit in better with the existential core of the show. So I really don't want to see those characters continued.

Funny, I'm the exact opposite, I can't believe that anyone survived the alley, but I want a Spike movie to prove to me that it did. Because I want at least Spike to survive. I know the comics are sanctioned by Joss, so that helps a little, but I'd really like to see it in living color, so to speak.
William Pratt is Boris Karloff's real name. So there's a bit of an in-joke there. Also "prat" is British slang for something along the lines of uptight-pain-in-the-ass-wet-blanket sort of guy. I'm trying to think of a one-word American equivalent for that.

And this Halfrek is Cecily thing really makes no sense. In 6.18, "Entropy" (the one when Anya and Spike get it on), Spike walks in the Magic Shop where Halfrek is sitting at the counter talking to Anya. Spike walks up and stands right next to Hallie. He pays no attention to her even though he's standing next to her. He only talks to Anya. He barely glances at Halfrek. Anya and Halfrek have an aside, then Halfrek walks out, casually waving goodbye to them.

Now if Spike REAAALLLLLY thought that Hallie is or could be Cecily don't you think he'd have a bit more of a reaction to her?

I'm tellin' ya, that little bit of dialogue between the two of them in "Older and Far Away" was just a shout-out to us. A little in-joke because Kali Rocha played both parts. I know I can't prove that but I honestly believe that was the original intent.

I think by making Cecily and Halfrek one in the same they are seriously messing with continuity and consistency. And to me it undercuts some of the power of "Fool for Love" by having Cecily's rejection of William be motivated by a demon's scheme rather than a real woman who genuinely think William is beneath her.

Okay, end of rant.

[ edited by batmarlowe on 2005-07-25 22:24 ]
Quite right, batmarlowe, about the "shout out" to the fans on the casting of Kali Rocha as Halfrek, since she'd already played Cecily seasons before. That's why Spike's reaction is so slight. Only us rabid fans would notice!
I tend to agree, batmarlowe, both on the shout out and on the Entropy scene. I've never particularly gone for the idea of Cecily/Halfrek - seems too much like a fanfic sort of thing - and the (however faint) possibility of Cecily being a demon does mar Fool for Love for me also.

I also agree with Pseudopod - at least to the extent that I thought the NFA ending was terrific, and any sloppy post-hoc explanation of how Spike and/or others survived will diminish that episode for me also. Of course, if a great story can be made out of the escape, then I look forward to seeing/reading it . . .

*trying to think of the American one-word equivalent for "prat" . . . *
Have we ever gotten Mr. Angel's last name????
I'm glad to hear someone agrees with me.

I also thought NFA had an effective ending. But I'd like think of it as inconclusive evidence as to whether or not Angel, Spike, and Illyria are dead.

However, if they're alive, I too want a plausible reason as to why. I think it can be done but I would be p.o.'d if it were some lame deus ex machina like the Powers That Be sent all those demons and monsters back to their own dimensions. It'd better be plausible and they better have "earned it" as Joss likes to say (without killing Angel, Spike. and Illyria).

We know that when Angel was human his first name was Liam. Hmmm, isn't that a variation of William? But I've never heard a last name. Maybe it was Doyle.
I so agree with a plausable way out. I doubt the monsters or TPTB wwould have stooped their attack or stepped in.

Could not be Doyle, as well Doyle's last name was ummm Doyle.

Liam..means unwavering protector and is Irish.
Shoulda put a : ) after "Maybe it was Doyle". But why couldn't Angel's human name have been Liam Doyle?

*trying to think of the American one-word equivalent for "prat" . . . *


jerk? idiot? fool? ars-- er @$$ :)

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-07-25 23:57 ]
As has been mentioned, William Pratt is Boris Karloff's real name. Given that there is also a Bela Lagosi reference in there too, I think that Spike's name is just a horror genre shout-out. It was the first thing I thought when I saw the name. "That's Boris Karloff!" LOL!!!

Awww, bless. It would be just poor William's luck that his name be Pratt. Like he didn't have enough to contend with. Poor wee poppet. :0(

Also, Spike's alternate name of William the Bloody was first mentioned in School Hard. Angel's name being Liam when he was human wasn't mentioned until S1 of Ats. And as I'm sure people are aware, Liam is the Irish version of William. Those two boys have always had a special connection. :0)

As to ratings spikes (pardon the pun) on Smallville, I guess we will all just have to wait and see. I don't see any point in jumping the gun and being either prematurely negative or positive. Let's just see shall we. Plus, stiff opposition on Thursdays. They are going to have their work cut out for them.

It's a good job a large amount of JM fans didn't previously watch Smallville, but now will be. :0)
We're still discussing the Cecily/Halfrek thing?

Some of you still don't believe they are the same person, even after Joss said they were?

I hate to mention it, because people are going to ask for the article. And it's an old article. I'll find it if you feel the need, or poke at me with sharp things.
Haborym - please - also, I have a needle a pin and a corkscrew. Where should I point them?
We're still discussing the Cecily/Halfrek thing?


I can't believe it either. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's still fact. Joss and several writers have pointed out that it started out as nothing but a little in-joke to sharp-eyed fans, (which explains why nothing was done with in in S6) but that it slowly grew into more until they actually wrote Hallie's history in such a way that it couldn't contradict her being in england in 1880.

You don't like it, fine. It wasn't very well handled, but it's still simply canonically true. Halfrek is Cecily. This comic bearing Joss' stamp of approval only confirms it.
Yeah, I'm not fond of Cecily being Halfrek either, but if that is what has been decided, and it does seem pretty clear that it is official, than...oh well.

Funny, if Cecily was Halfrek, I always had a hard time making sense of "Fool for Love" but never had a problem with Entropy. In "Older and Far Away" they both seemed like whatever was between them was not something they wanted to discuss/deal with in front of people or it was already resolved. I could see them having a silent agreement to be courteous though not necessarily friendly. Plus, neither one is a main character. It is not as though we have seen everything that goes on between the minor characters. That said, I'm still not fond of it and from what I have heard about the comic, not crazy about the way it is handled there either.

Oh well. Moving on...

I don't have a problem with Spike,Illyria, Angel, or any combination living through NFA...Gunn would be tough to explain. I do not think it under cuts the theme, because they already know they cannot win the war. They are fighting the battle anyway. It does not matter thematically if they die fighting or simply fight until they can't anymore and find a way to live to fight another day. They still are not going to stop fighting even though they know they can never truly end it or win.
I would actually like to see where Joss says Hallie is Cecily. But does a "Joss approved" comic make it canon? And didn't Joss approve of all the other Buffy and Angel comics anyway? And those aren't taken as canon. Now if Joss has said these particular IDW comics are canon then of course I'd have to accept that. But if he's said that I'm not aware of it.

And if Joss says Hallie is Cecily then I say he's made a big mistake and has gotten too fat and happy when it comes to the Buffyverse. I still think he's amazingly talented and I'm a fan and I'll be there for movie, comic, or TV show that he's written. But if he says Hallie is Cecily then I'm glad BUFFY and ANGEL are off the air. Because it's obvious (in my opinion) that he'd allow the continuity to get played with so much that he'd let the Buffyverse become like Marvel and DC comics. And he's above that.
Kali was just at a Toronto Trek and said that during the filming it was not canon that Cecily and Halfrek were the same. She didn't know if they were. The writers didn't know but were careful to write her scenes so that she could be if they needed her to be.

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