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August 02 2005

IDW Publishing releases solicitation info for ANGEL: OLD FRIENDS #1. Solicitation info on IDW's second Angel comic books mini series.

There's a typo in the page, it's supposed to be Angel: Old Friends #1 not #11.
This story is supposed to play post Not Fade Away.


Written by Jeff Mariotte, art by David Messina, covers by Messina, Neil Vokes and others.

Joss Whedon's classic character returns for his next all-new adventure! When a strangely familiar, seemingly vampiric figure is spotted killing victims in Los Angeles, Angel, alone in semi-retired retreat while he figures out what's next for him, is lured back to the city to put a stop to the string of slayings. The case will reunite the vampire with a soul with old friends and old enemies­but it's impossible to tell which is which! Written by Angel novelist and comics writer Jeff Mariotte with full art and colors once again provided by David Messina. If you've been waiting to see Angel's supporting cast join him on a new comic book adventure, this one's for you. This debut issue also features variant covers from TBD.

32 pages, $3.99.

I wonder who the familar figure is? Bet it's Dru.
I had high hopes for these comics, but it seems that these are just going to say "if you want to see the rest of the Angel crew BUY THIS ISSUE" and then all we get are flashbacks with no explanation of what happened in the alley.
I don't think Jeff Marriotte is allowed to mention what happened in the alleyway, just in case some sort of Buffyverse TV movie/series happens. I could be wrong. All these debates about it have blurred in my mind.

But it's the only semi official Joss approved canon Angel story on the market right now. So I'll be buying it for my sins. Reading it passes the time and makes me miss watch the series on the telly. Good times. Good times.
I'd of course like the familiar figure to be Wesley, but I don't think that will happen. Second best would be Lindsay. I always enjoyed the eps where they had to work together. They had a great banter-y chemistry.
Seemingly vampiric....interesting choice of words.

Whatever it is, I bet it's all just a misunderstanding!
I'm expecting the 'familiar figure' to be flash backs with Darla, because I don't think the BtVS comics by Dark Horse have any rights to the Darla character. Well, actually I guess they don't have rights to any of the Ats characters, but if they aren't going to tell us what happened in the alley then there is little hope of seeing Gunn. I will be buying it though, what can I say? I'm an insane fangurl.
I am thinking Lindsey, Wes or Gunn. Actaully strangly familiar with vampiric , could describe Conner to a T. And what would drive Angel back to the real world faster???

The editor of IDW has said Gunn would be there. Also Gunn did sign the same thing Lilah did, which would or could make his death invalid. Maybe??? But whoever it is, is killing people, so it is not a good thing.

IDW can not use Dru or Faith. They can use Darla. He did say he would hit on what happened in the alley.

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-08-03 01:30 ]
Oh, just noticed, that you can also find the solicit info for Amber Benson's Shawdowplay:

Written by Amber Benson and Christina Z, art and cover by Ben Templesmith and Ashley Wood.
The horrific tales of bloodlust continue with the third installment of the vampire double feature. Amber Benson and Ben Templesmith continue with Pinwheel's confrontation with the clan of vampire street children in "Demon Father John's Pinwheel Blues, Part 3." In "Shunt, Part 3," Christina Z and Ashley Wood prolong Heather Majest's nightmare as she searches for escape from the vampire run slavering. Each issue will feature two covers, one by Wood and one by Templesmith. Note: Covers will be shipped in a 1 to 1 ratio. 32 pages, $3.99.
I saw that too, Numfar PTB. Guess I wasn't paying attention awhile back because I didn't know Shadowplay was a comic. Looks like a new order for me.

I'll get this Angel series, but if it's on par with the current one it will probably be the last Angel comic series I buy.

I'm holding out higher hopes for the Spike series based on the artwork I saw in the preview.
I very much like the art for the Angel comic.

The Spike one-shot's art is very good too, but it is hard to compare their stories and art to each other. Both are different times and subject matters. Thier art fits the subject matter.The Angel one is getting better issue by issue. IMO.
The case will reunite the vampire with a soul with old friends and old enemies ­but it's impossible to tell which is which!

I must preface my comment here with an honest declaration that I know nothing more about this title than what Numfar PTB was so kind to link to; so, with that out of the way, the above quote makes me think that we may likely be treated instead to merely visions of friends and enemies past, via a spell, hallucination or flashback or maybe some sort of shape-shifting demon taking the form of such familiar characters. That seems to me like a convenient way to side-step any mention of Not Fade Away and "what happened in the alley." I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but...

I agree with Simon, this'll pass the time and make me miss the series just a little bit more *sniffle*

Hmmm... so no one thinks that the "vampire" in question might be Spike? Considering that I have heard that Joss jokingly said that in the alley Spike gets the Shanshu... it could fit, could it not?
He also said Angel lost an arm and Xander his other eye.

I highly doubt it is Spike. Strangly familiar makes it sound like someone he has not seen in quite awhile. I don't see Spike as strangly familiar. Plus this person is killing things in L.a. , causing Angel to have to come out of retirement to stop them. Spike would not be slaying people.

The more I think about it the more it does sound like Darla.
Spike isn't going to get the Shanshu, it was just a joke made by Joss. The Shanshu is for Angel or bust. I do think that the person from his past will be a vampire, but I don't think it will be Darla. Perhaps it will be someone like Penn, who Angel sired when he was evil...
I like the Angel comics so far, long may it continue.
I have to say that I recieved my 3 Angel comics and I was a bit surprised. Of course, it's been a long time since I have read comics, so I was really taken aback by their appearence in the first place. They are just skinny, shiny, paper issues, not at all what I thought they would be.
Anyway...from what I have seen of the comics, the mini series is OK...the artwork doesn't turn me on, but I agree each issue does improve. The Spike one shot I have not received yet, but I would say that from scans I have seen ...the artwork is far superior, and then again...I think the story is more maybe this isn't a fair comparison.

I will be honest...I will buy each Angel mini series in hopes that Spike will be part of them....but if he is not, then I am not sure I will keep up the effort. I will buy all the Spike one shot issues and I will still hope for a Spike series as Peter David has hinted at. But if they can't address any stories post NFA...I am going to be pretty disappionted. I want a continuation of the Angelverse...not a rehash. I want to see what happened in that alley, and I would love to see Gunn, Illy and Wes again. In fact, I wish they would be able to just show us what S6 would have been.....

I guess the best we can do is just be patient and see what happens. If Joss wants certain plot lines left untouched...we can't control that. But if he intends to do the movies then he better get serious. If he doesn't, then then let the story go on in the comics. If people knew that was the intention than I think they would sell extremely well. This is kind of a double edged sword...if we don't support it...we may never get anything else to continue the story.

Oh...and I think that Spike is certainly a viable candidate for the shanshu, or at least as deserving of it as Angel is. I think Angel's shanshu was his son......
Darla and Penn are both dead, so it all likelihood it wont be them.

It could be Dru. But the phrase "seemingly vampiric" makes me curious. Someone perhaps killing and pretending to be a vampire to cover their tracks. Which would then rule out all the vamps on the shows.

Nowhere on the show has it been stated that Angel is the Shanshu vampire with a soul. The implication was that it was him because when it was first mentioned he was the only vampire with a soul. That is no longer the case. If they had wanted they could have specifically said it was him, but they deliberately left it open to interpretation and ambiguous. Sadly, we might never know which one, Angel or Spike, it does apply to.

[ edited by lynnie on 2005-08-03 14:54 ]
There is one more one-shot. Making that three for Spike, but no new mini series, at least from what I have heard. If anyone has any other info,please tell. The PAD one might have been rejected or is going to be made into the final one-shot. I know they want three so the can be put into a TPB. They will then move on to a new character for one-shot's. I hope Wes. Or maybe by that time Darkhorse will have given over their rights. So something Faith.

The Shansue,I believe is more an abstract idea then anything that will ever be shown, at least ever be shown only in comic form and without both vamps present. For me, and not something really debatable to me, you can not sign your destiny away, it can change and alter, but it still is yours.He might have signed it away there, but fate is funny. Meant to be, is meant to be. Joss clearly believes, per Fury , that the story would be over once someone got that, and as he has many stories left to tell, it would seem to say that is not something in the immediate future.

Spike was never going to be part of the first one, and all of them were going to be part of the second. But it is still Angel's comic, like it was Angel's show.Their stories wrapped around his. But like the show it is an ensemble that works best. JM alrady has said we would see what happend or at least how they or who survived, did so. So I have no worries there. I don't see how Angel's stories are rehash, just becasue they don't only feature one character or tell the story you want. Both his mini's are post NFA, making them new stories. This one is as close to semi canon as you can get. Not thinking, in IMO, we will get much of season six that was talked about, as many of the plotlines were changed or speed up because of the cancelling. Though we might get to see the Fred/Illyara change. The scene for the new Angel mini sugests life as usual in L.a. Not the end of the world one pitched for the sixth season.

The Angel comics are selling very well on their own accord. Fans who are intrested in his story bought it and it sold out. Nothing bad there at all. It has done so good that they already greenlighted this new mini. I am sure as many fans who will not buy because of lack of one character, will buy because of love of another.There are many characters to love here and want to see stories continue.

Forgive me, But I find it sad that people need to compare the two types of comics. It seems like they have an need to put one down to bring one up, insteading of enjoying both. I seem to always read people bashing the Angel comic, but knowing the Spike one will be so much better. Huh?They are both from the same universe. Both have great writers. Art is always subjective, it does not make one better. Especailly in the comic world. Either both do good and the universe continues or neither does. Enjoy them, this is not a contest or race.

Strangly familiar seems to say Angel at least has some recognition. Vampire can be anyone from Harm to Gunn, who could have been changed. Seemingly vampiric, can just mean needing blood, leaving people drained, or mass torture, which could be someone familar with the way Angelus and Spike killed in the old days. It says he does not know who are friends and who are enemies,to me that say there is some deffinate double crossing. He knew who his freinds were in that alley. Wes could have been brought back by dark magic,Gunn, Lindsey.Who knows.But sounds fun

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-08-03 15:54 ]
The Shanshu is for Angel or bust.

With this much confidence, Destiny must have been a rather boring episode for you!

I personally hope whichever wants it the most doesn't get it. Because that negates the good deeds they do, in my book. If you're being good just to get a reward then you just have an agenda. I agree Angel didn't start out that way, but in Season 5 we really see how much he wants it. Well, I guess it's okay to want it, as long as you're really doing 'good' more for the sake of good rather than because you think you'll get the big shiny prize. I hope the prophecy has some kind of 'motive clause' in it! Wow, this topic brings all kind of religious discussion to my head...

And personally, despite his claims in Angel, I can't see Spike being happy as a regular human--if indeed that's what the Shanshu *truly* says.
Perhaps if there is enough interest in another mini series for could still happen. As far as I know there has been no decision on whether Peter David's idea was accepted or hopefully there is still a chance.
And as far as comparing the 2 comics. I simply commented on the artwork and the storyine being more interesting to ME. I also think to ME the artwork in the Spike comic is far superior, from an artistic point of personal preference.

I do not want to debate the issue. We are all entitled to an opinion.

I will support something I think is worth spending my money on. I'm sure other folks will do the same.

If Joss does want some storylines left alone...there is a very good chance we will not see who actually survived in the alley. I know Jeff said that we will SEE some of the old characters, and some of the mystery will be solved....but some may not.

Just because a character appears in the comic , it doesn't mean they are not used in a flash back. Angel's story is post he survived. It is still not clear who else did. ME if the comics do not finally show what happened, I will lose interest. Again...that is MY choice.

I bought the first mini knowing full well that Spike was not in it. But if his story is not continued in the next one, or in the one shots or another mini...I probably will not be interested in continuing to read them. I am interested in HIS story more than the others. If I am spending MY money...I think it is up to ME what I spend it on.
And personally, despite his claims in Angel, I can't see Spike being happy as a regular human--if indeed that's what the Shanshu *truly* says.

Agreed, Rogue Slayer. Spike revels in his vampireness way too much to settle for being human. I think he wants the Shanshu just so Angel doesn't get it, and because *he thinks* it would give him a shot with Buffy. Not exactly altruistic motives.
One theory I like, the Shanshu prophecy doesnt exist, it's a decoy like the infamous 'The Father will kill the son', created by another time travelling demon on the behest of W&H, enabling W&H to tempt Angel and Spike with hope, when in reality there is none.
"you can not sign your destiny away, it can change and alter, but it still is yours.He might have signed it away there, but fate is funny. Meant to be, is meant to be."

This is fair enough. But again I repeat nowhere has it been categorically stated on the show that the Shanshu belonged to Angel. By implication, yes. By name, no. :-)
it's a decoy like the infamous 'The Father will kill the son',

Except that one kind of came true...
Came true how ?

Didn't Sajahn admit to inventing it himself ?
Didn't Angel sort of have to kill Connor for him to be 'reborn' with the new memories? I distinctly remember Angel cutting Connor's throat in Home.
"I think he wants the Shanshu just so Angel doesn't get it, and because *he thinks* it would give him a shot with Buffy. Not exactly altruistic motives."

In fairness, this isn't really born out in the text. Spike in his own words says it's a bit of both. He's also been burnt to a crisp closing a hellmouth...not exactly trying to have a shot with Buffy. If he just wanted a shot with Buffy he would have left the hellmouth with her when she urged him to....but he didn't, he stayed. Not to mention that Spike has never been shown believing Buffy wants a human, the exact opposite is true, remember he believes she likes a little monster in her man. And long before Destiny we see Spike on screen, holding off talk about a future with Buffy and saying, 'let's go be heroes'.(And isn't the whole point about Spike is that his motivations may seem like it's about the girl's pants but it's always been about so much more...Dru was about the effulgent destiny, we see right away with Harmony that blondie bear is searching for the ring of Amarra, and Buffy is the slayer who makes him feel like a man...leading him to wear yet another gaudy jem)

As for the shanshu and whether or not Spike 'wants' to be human, Joss doesn't exactly set up his characters with things they 'want', more like what do they 'need' to complete their journey. Since Spike has spent his entire life as a vamp covering up and hiding from his human issues, it might be reasonable to expect a writer to give him the shanshu. It might also be fairly reasonable when one looks back over Spike's whole story, there's tons and tons of Spike talking about feeling like a man and what a man mustn't do and what not. It must be awfully tempting to see what Spike would actually do if he was indeed the man he was. In ATS 5, they had Spike echo FFL's William, telling Angel that the fight would be ugly but that's where he lived. What would happen if a human Spike had to face the ugly? Would the choice be as easy, or would he be tempted to respond like William did all those years ago?

Strangely familiar and seemingly vampiric....enemies and friends not known. It does sound like it could be Spike. Or maybe a way for Wes to come back? But didn't Fury say that Joss nixed the shanshu idea for Spike 'on screen' because it would limit future storyline?
Rouge Slayer, Hmm, dont remember that, have to rewatch.
"I think he wants the Shanshu just so Angel doesn't get it, and because *he thinks* it would give him a shot with Buffy. Not exactly altruistic motives."

I think Spike proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that his motivations were not purely to get in Buffy's pants.

Why was he willing to sacrifice himself for a woman he thought he wasn't worthy of? He could have left long before the showdown with the First, but he didn't. He really didn't beleive he had a chance for her love, but he stayed by her side.
He could have run off to Rome when Angel offered him the chance, but he didn't....he stayed because of what happened to Fred and what he felt for her. He knew that Angel was going to need all the help he could get in his scheme to bring down W& wasn't his fight, but he stayed anyway.

I kinda think Spike's motovation had finally become doing the right thing because it was the right thing to do....not because it would gain him anything. It never had before. All that seems pretty altruistic to me.....

I think Joss will not address the shanshu , if ever, until he is ready to end the story. In a way I am glad because this indicates to me that he may actually beleive there is more to tell for Spike. I hope he hurrys it up if he is going to do a movie...but anyway, in no way do I think that the shanshu has a NAME on is open for either, and maybe both of them.

Strangely though...I found Angel finally being able to come to grips with and integrate the demon side of himself....while Spike is shown finally coming to accept and embrace his humanity.

I do love Spike, and all of his contributions to the world were well and goodly celebrated by me. That short remark I made was specifically about the Shanshu, whether or not it's a genuine prophecy, that is just my take on how he looks at it.
"Didn't Angel sort of have to kill Connor for him to be 'reborn' with the new memories? I distinctly remember Angel cutting Connor's throat in Home."

That's the impression I got. And didn't a writer also confirm that Angel cut Connor's throat?(I seem to remember that)

As for not being able to sign away one's destiny, didn't we see exactly this happening in The House Always Wins?
Aw, Willowy, even Angel and Lindsey thought Spike was motivated by 'Buffy's pants':), I was just trying to point out that both the text and subtext make Spike wanting the shanshu to be about something more than just winning Buffy. He wins the fight, he gets the mountain dew. It's not about the girl. The fight becomes a wakeup call of sorts for both the vampires.

ETA: Sorry for the double posting.

[ edited by ramses 2 on 2005-08-03 19:09 ]
How did he cut his throat when in the scene he slams down his fist. No knife.

And yet his destiny came back. Destiny is destiny.Fate, TPTB, real Cordy, whatever stepped in. And since what came down was evil, it was obvious real Cordy did not get cast out for that as first implied. It can not be transfrered to someone else. So if it is Angel's, then it will find a way, signed away or not, to be happen.I to don't believe it exsists. At least in the terms everyone thinks it does. Why can't both get it. Prophecies are not that specific and if anything watching these two shows proved, they are rarely iron clad or exact to the way people read or interperate them.

For all we know the gypsies either ended his curse or could have restored it. It does say he is figuring out what to do next. Sounds like whatever happens angel is okay.

I tend to not think Spike would want it either. Being human does not give you a sure shot with Buffy. She is with the immortal and does tend to drift towards the non human side of the tracks. Soul or not. I think spike would hate he could die from his smoking, would get his ass kicked the first time he pissed of some thug and really not like that he could jump in both barrels loaded in a fight. he has lived to long as a vampire. Nor has he shown any of the real want to be human or wonderment that Angel has always shown.Plus there is Illyara. And if Fred were to come back. Can I say knowing her soul burned up and just ceased to exsist bothered me more then I liked.

No, Joss said he nixed it the Angel finale because it would end all storylines not on screen ones for Spike. There would be no more story if he became human.

Funny never saw Angel intergrate the demon inside. Angelus is till a cold blloded phycho. He is the demon. Angel is the man. Saw him deeply flawed and usually wrong. But until the last fight always fighting. Now in this comic he once agin is out there doing it, not because of some reward, but becasue it is his responsibility. Saw him accept both the man and the monster have their good qualities and their bad. H e goes to the gypsies for a reward and that is why whatever happens there he will ultimatly not get what he seeks. He is hero. There are no rewards for being a hero.

To get back on subject.Thought I would repost this from Jeff M.:then it is definitely post NFA and we'll see everybody who survives, as well as others in Season 5 flashbacks.

I assume that is how he will see Wes, Cordy, Conner, Fred and so on. But he does say Spike is in it. Whoever this person is they are killing people, alot of people, so I would hope it would not be Spike.

I know I look forward to the second spike one-shot in that is set in the 1940's Black Dahlia. Plus it has both Angel and Fred in it. The first one, I will not buy, but it is still a good looking comic book.

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-08-03 19:50 ]
Angel had a knife. A big honkin' knife. Even in the commentary for the episode Tim Minear confirms that Angel split Connor's throat.
it's Ok Willowy...I think lots of folks may think that Spike is still all about Buffy. I'm sure she is in his thoughts, but I think him possibly wanting the shanshu has a bit more to do with him finally gaining something for himself. He did win that fight ....because he wanted it more. Even Angel knew that. I think it came down to a matter of pride. Angelus had always beaten him down, but not this time...I agree it was a real wake up call for both of them.

As far as Angel integrating the demon side of himself....what I meant was that he was finally not afriad to let the demon loose. He spent years trying to escape what he was...he didn't want to let the demon get control, as in that moment of true happiness. Finally he figured out that maybe true happinessis a sham...maybe being 90% happy is fine. Anyway in the end he knew to fight the SP he had to let the demon out, he had to call on Angelus to do what needed to be done.
Spike, on the other hand was better able to control his demon side, or at least better than Angel could, but he didn't especially like his human side. In the end he seemed to embrace the William part of him.
Not thinking Angel figured true happiness is a sham if he is going to the gypsies in hope that he can get it removed. Sounds like he wants to have 100% without worring about the demon.

Angelus was not there. Angel killed drogyn. He felt remorse. Angel went into the fight. Not Angelus. He can not switch in and out of personalites at will. He fought as he has always done and will always do. But there was no Angelus. When he fought Hamilton it was the blood that gave hima boost, not Angelus. It was seeing his on safe that gave him strength. None of that is Angelus. All of it is Angel. Cowardly, strong, passionate, brooding, guilty, soulful and determined.

And wow, there is a knife. Don't know how I missed that, or why there has always been debate if he killed him or not, if it is that appearent. So is Conn,r's soul like Angel, Gunn, Wes, Lorne and Fred all owned By W&H too?

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-08-03 20:04 ]
Actually, Angel breaks a display case of knives, throws one at Connor bringing him down. He flips Connor over, takes the knife out of Connor's leg. He tells Connor he loves him, Connor says prove it and Angel brings the knife down in a slashing motion.

"Saw him accept both the man and the monster have their good qualities and their bad"...if you saw this how can you say you never saw Angel integrate the demon inside? I think all the above poster is saying is that in NFA we saw Angel call upon that side of himself that he struggled against...he vamps out to defeat Hamilton. He doesn't become Angelus, but he wields the demon's nasty fighter insinct. He integrates/controls his inner Angelus....Angelus doesn't take the upper hand.

"He goes to the gypsies for a reward", yet you also say, "Now in this comic he once agin is out there doing it, not because of some reward, but because it is his responsibility." Not having read the second comic yet and having just read that he's in semi retirement for the next, how does all this square up? Is he in semi retirement?

As for prophesies not being specific or both getting the shanshu, I think we're forgetting that prophesies in the Angelverse only exist to basically throw some character head long into some dilemma or other(character development). For Angel the shanshu existed to move the character along on his journey and then to be something the hero must give up for the final stage of the hero's journey. In Angel's story, he loses everything to discover that for him it's all about the struggle. Though we're told the shanshu is a reward, the story itself tells us that a reward is not what Angel is about.

By the sounds of it, whatever character is familiar and somewhat vampiric isn't living a life of sunshine and roses. If it's Spike, I think we can assume Angel will hear him bitch quite Spikelike...hey, maybe this is how Angel realizes who it is?:)
Then it would be spike who is out kiiling people. Whom Angel has to come out of his alone, semi-retirement ot stop. If Spike is back killing, then I would say something is wrong. Nor do I think Spike would be strangly familiar. It hs not been that long since he has seen him. Unless the person is doing it with steel railroad spikes. Pretending, kinda Jack the Ripper style.

The first one we are told byt he story so far, he is there becasue he would like to be happy. Completely happy again without issues. (though how he did not loose his soul with the birth of his son is beyond me) My thoughts is this story will end with Angel understanding how much he does still have to fight for and that his not ready for whatever his endgame reward, be it peace, humanity or something else. He will go back, but as per Angel after being hurt and he will be alone. But he will be unable to stay out of the good fight. Whever this person is killing, Angel obviously feels like he is the only person who can end it. I would assume that is were Illyara and Spike will show up to help.

Angel got the upper hand AFTER he drank the blood. After he started beating Conner around. It was primal. But it was something Angel has done in many other fights as well. With daral, Conner, Buffy, Faith,cordy and even when fighting Spike. He has let his more agressive side out before. Everyone has an inner Angelus. When I mean he acepted the bad, he acceppted for once he was a vampire, instead of always trying to not be. He accepted that this was his life and his destiny and accepted it. But he also chose as the man to take a stand and fight with everything he had. Once again you have your opinion and I have mine.

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-08-03 20:21 ]
Angel is Angelus with a soul. He is a demon with a soul, not a man. Otherwise how does his face go all bumpy and gets fangs. :-) Same with Spike, he's a demon with a soul.

Angel did indeed slit Connor's throat. He had a knife and did kill him which was needed for the W&H mojo to work and give him a new life.

With regard to the Shanshu:-

1) I sincerely doubt JW would even give a character anything like the Shanshu despite how much we as fans think they deserve it.

2) I personally don't think either will ever Shanshu. It is my personal opinion that both Spike and Angel can and have saved the world, stopped apocolypses and saved a great many individuals. But none of that brings back even one of the lives they took. My view is that I don't think that either of them should get a shiny reward for working to redeem themselves for the horrors they have committed.

I love them both dearly, but when you come down to it they deserve admiration for trying to better themselves and for being heroes, but the journey is what it's all about for me, not any reward at the end of it.

JMHO. :-)
I love them both dearly, but when you come down to it they deserve admiration for trying to better themselves and for being heroes, but the journey is what it's all about for me, not any reward at the end of it.

Well we all are just having fun speculating FalenAnjil. The wording in the description is rather intruiging. Apparently there is a lot of killing going on, and it 'appears' to be this vaguely familiar, almost vampiric character. I don't think it's a given that the character is the killer. The sentence regarding not knowing friend or enemy seems to imply the time worn standby where the guilty looking party standing over the body holding both a gun and a knife turns out to not be the guilty party.

Hey, I didn't say it was a shanshued Spike, I simply said it could be, and that if so, could be interesting. Remember, Jeff implied that some characters were going to be seen in suprising ways. It definitely sounds like they have some suprises in store for us.

Vaguely familiar could mean that Spike now resembles not Spike but William. Or it could be an explanation for the well endowed Fred cover.

[ edited by ramses 2 on 2005-08-03 20:55 ]
Heh heh ramses...
Wow,,,,I never thought about it like that...but it could happen. Jeff did say surprising ways...and that would fit. But I'm sure if it is vampire will be a case of being associated with the crime because he happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am very certain they will not regress Spike or they won't be selling any comics to Spike fans....

[ edited by FalenAnjl on 2005-08-03 23:50 ]
Oh dear lord FalenAnjil, did you email the author again? It's called speculation. It's where people speculate. It's supposed to be fun.
Have your fun. Not seeing my comment stop that or others.

But since you know nothing about me or how I get my info, I would prefer you not to address me so rudely.

I wasn't actually trying to be rude, actually I was rather amused. But you forget, you emailed PAD regarding speculation I made at the SMGfan board and then assured everyone that PAD was enraged with me. I just assumed you emailed your contacts once again.
FalenAnjil and ramses 2, take your discussion off site. If you insist in these pointless digs at each other, do it via email.
And, more generally, it seems that more and more often of late, links regarding either Angel or Spike or any real or potential Buffyverse project in the future involving one or t'other brings forth the same flood of pro- and con- commentary. Don't get me wrong, many of the points expressed in this thread have been on-point and insightful . . . but there's this constant undertone of "my vampire with a soul is better than your vampire with a soul". Can we stop that, please?

To repeat: this is Whedonesque, not Angelesque or Spikesque, or Bangelesque or Spuffyesque. Obviously some discussion of the characters is completely warranted and fine, but certain folks keep crossing over the line between constructive discussion and pointless bickering. Thanks.
The next time anyone drags off site aggrevation into our community here they're history. You leave your baggage at the door, or you're not welcome, it's that simple. If you don't get on with certain members, then for pity's sake, avoid conflict.
Sorry SNT, we posted simultaneously.
No worries, C, appreciate the reinforcement. :)
Personally, I've always felt that a shanshued vampire would be like Connor; human, but with superhuman abilities enabling them to continue fighting the good fight. I think both Angel and Spike deserve the Shanshu, and I wouldn't be suprised if the Powers That Be eventually gave it to both of them. For example, Spike is shansued after Not Fade Away because of the growth he's experienced since Buffy season 4. Angel, on the other, seemed to only fight the good fight the past four years because of the Shanshu. To teach him a lesson and help him grow, Angel would have to live with the fact that Spike was shanshued. Then, he finds some way to become human, but he would no longer have his powers and would be useless to the cause. He gives up his dream of humanity for the greater good, and is shanshued by the Powers, now feeling that he has truely earned it.

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