More Whedon and Minear commentary on the first ever Firefly episode to be aired (from Cinefantastique).
Joss
“The Train Job” is a funny little piece and generally tends to be discounted, though I like it a lot. The network said, “We don’t like the pilot, write another one.” It was Friday afternoon around 5:00 and they said, “You know how we wanted you to pitch us a story to give us an idea of what the show would be like? Actually, we want you to write a new pilot that’s one-hour long and it has to be on our desks before we get into work on Monday.” So Tim Minear and I looked at each other and said, “Okay.”
Well, in two days we wrote “The Train Job,” which had the extraordinarily difficult and ultimately self-defeating task of trying to introduce nine people who have already met to an audience without making it sound really, really hokey. As a result, a lot got lost on people and the resonance of the relationships disappeared. In the pilot, we really let things sit and take their own time a little bit. That was sort of a mission statement for the show, because it wasn’t originally going to be as action-oriented as it ended up being. I told Fox I didn’t really think we could afford that. That’s why we were doing a drama in space and why we have so many people, with some action and, obviously, humor. And they were, like, “Okay, so when you say drama, do action.” So “The Train Job” just didn’t have the time necessary to make you care about all of these people. You just sort of saw them go by in a flash and hoped you picked up who they were and what they did. But I still think the episode was extremely fun and funny and has a really cool floating train in it.
Tim
I would say that the most compromised episode of any of them was “Train Job,” and it’s not like we’re ashamed of that. If that came in as the second or third episode after the pilot and was kind of a light-hearted heist episode, people would have loved it. A lot of people liked it fine and a lot of people like it more now that they’ve seen the rest of the series, but coming into the series with that episode was awkward and it confused people. By the way, if it was the second or third episode after the pilot, you wouldn’t have a first act where everyone was going, “Hello, my name is...” You wouldn’t need that.
I actually like the episode. It will never be my favorite episode, but I like it plenty. Actually, I probably like it more than a lot of people, because now that the pain of that weekend is over and the fond memory of being punch drunk with exhaustion and going up to Joss and saying, “I don’t want to write the action scenes. Can’t I take some action scenes from one of my Angel scripts and change the names?” And he was all for that, because we both hate writing action scenes.
I actually like the episode. It will never be my favorite episode, but I like it plenty. Actually, I probably like it more than a lot of people, because now that the pain of that weekend is over and the fond memory of being punch drunk with exhaustion and going up to Joss and saying, “I don’t want to write the action scenes. Can’t I take some action scenes from one of my Angel scripts and change the names?” And he was all for that, because we both hate writing action scenes.
:)
miyu_tVP | August 06, 01:10 CET
The thought of two world class writers staring at each other trying to script an episode over two days. Unbelievable. You could actually make a one-off drama about it. Dunno who would play Joss and Tim though.
Simon | August 06, 01:13 CET
Caroline | August 06, 01:14 CET
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-08-05 23:28 ]
electricspacegirl | August 06, 01:28 CET
Just looked at the Sci-fi synopsis of it...seems to me it gives away pretty much the entire story, rather than just hinting...How about:
"When Mal and Zoe learn the actual contents of what Serenity's crew has agreed to steal for a ruthless crime lord, they are forced to reconsider...with potentially disastrous results for the entire crew."
Not perfect, but why give the whole story (minus some choice moments and dialogue, of course) away?
Chris inVirginia | August 06, 01:33 CET
Celluloid Novelist | August 06, 01:33 CET
Anyway, that makes me think about the parallels (or not) between FF (FireFly, not Fantastic four... urk...) characters and AtS characters (I wrote Spike above, because to me it is the nearest to Jayne).
Le Comité | August 06, 01:33 CET
Firefly Flanatic | August 06, 03:06 CET
so glad they are airing them in the PROPER ORDER! i love this episode, (especially the drugging of jayne mentioned above.) but it is not a very good pilot episode. it is amazing how fast they turned it out though!
kittyholmes | August 06, 03:51 CET
lalaa | August 06, 03:56 CET
Haunt | August 06, 04:00 CET
Anusien | August 06, 04:04 CET
palehorse | August 06, 04:11 CET
And I was dissapointed there was no behind the scenes stuff. Maybe they changed their minds and decided to put it on MSN instead. I before had thought the score music from that comic con cd would go great with the movie. Now that I've seen it with a scene I'm positive. Can't wait for September.
Anusien, that wasn't a trailer really. It was a whole scene from the movie. I imagine spoiler phobes quickly turned the channel.
[ edited by eddy on 2005-08-06 02:35 ]
eddy | August 06, 04:33 CET
I also liked The Train Job after I watched it a couple times. For some reason, I find Mal's line after the sherrif informs him of Bloggs' death to be the funniest. It's something like, "Would his job be open then?" And "I was weak" from Zoe to Inara. Nathan is hilarious and yeah right, a weak Zoe.
And oh yeah, I totally knew I'd seen those punches before. :)
WhoIsOmega? | August 06, 05:44 CET
Got to be sincere, I didn't fell in love with it, head start. It was confusing at the begininng, it took time to get along with the story, while trying to know the characters.
Loved the "Don Ma" scene with Jayne during the heist, and all the eastern and western culture mix up thing. But it was a lot to take as a first jump into the Verse.
However, I learned to love "Train Job" after multiple viewings, I just love Niska so much as Villain. I'm not even sure I'm using the right words to describe him, but he owns a bluntness and a something very classy in his actions, that makes him very compelling. Even after "War Stories", I always felt, Niska should be one of those villains, that should make an appearance once in a while, sort of like a Fireflyverse's "Ethan Rayne".
I was just reminded again about "Train Job" again, a few hours ago, because I went to see Michael Bay's "The Island", and they got hovering trains in the movie. From the moment I saw it, I started remembering about the Alliances troops, heists, and seeing Serenity hovering over the train from this episode of Firefly.
It was too long ago that I watched the episode in Full Screen, so I can't really remember how to describe the difference between watching it in Full Screen and afterwards in widescreen through the DVD.
Numfar PTB | August 06, 05:52 CET
(Miss Kitty was the redheaded poker-playing madam in Gunsmoke, for those who don't know.)
zencat | August 06, 06:11 CET
Oh, god, now I really feel old.
Interesting comparison of Inara and Miss Kitty, though. I hadn't thought about it before, but in both Gunsmoke and Firefly there is the sustained suggestion of a relationship that is more than what is presented to the audience. (I can't remember -- wasn't there finally, toward the end of its long run, or perhaps in one of the reunion specials, an on-air acknowledgement of Matt Dillon's and Miss Kitty's more intimate relationship?) But there is, of course, a major difference, in that we see all the evidence of Inara's profession, whereas, with Miss Kitty, we have to understand what her profession is by signifiers (especially the red hair). I grew up thinking she was just a tough woman (yes, with a heart of gold) who owned the saloon and who had a crush on Dillon. All else was lost on me (until I was older and more worldly).
palehorse | August 06, 06:40 CET
I remember hearing about Firefly months before it premiered and being incredibly excited at the prospect of three JW shows on TV at the same time. Such an embarrassment of riches! For about a month or so, it was heaven -- Buffy on Tuesday, Angel on Wednesday and then Firefly on Friday. Like most everyone I've run into, I wasn't bowled over by The Train Job in its initial run; I warmed to the characters immediately and really enjoyed the zestful note Niska brought to the mix (he was a terrific villain with some distinctly Angelus-like overtones), but it just didn't have the fully rounded tone and complex interplay I'd anticipated from a Joss/Tim collaboration.
When I found out some weeks later that the ep had been a weekend rewrite, I was astonished the fellows were able to come up with something that good under extreme duress. It was definitely weak compared to everything that followed, but in retrospect it still managed to equal -- and in certain scenes, exceed -- the quality of most other drama/action shows on at the time (and it was certainly worlds better than the half-baked John Doe, which FOX promoted ad nauseum). Mostly, TTJ was an early barometer reading of things to come. I knew if this was the worst episode in the entire run, we'd be in for one hell of an adventure. I wasn't wrong!
Wiseblood | August 06, 11:08 CET
The 'professional thief' doesn't bother to find out what he is going to steal before he takes the job, makes no effort to find out whether there are any guards on the train and when he succeeds with the theft and finds out what he is stealing not only reneges on the deal but also kills one of Niskas trusted employees.
No wonder he was PO'd.
But, if Niska had known more about Mal's good heart he might have told him about his own mining operation and how important it was that his people got the medicine on time, specifically since the Alliance didn't allow him to buy it since he was an independent like Mal.
What would Cap'n Mal have done then ?
jpr | August 06, 12:14 CET
Maybe he would've wised up enough to (a) find out if Niska actually had a mining operation with lots of ailing people (unlikely but ya never know!), and then, (b) thought to pick Simon's brain about Alliance hospitals and pharmaceutical operations.
Don't forget, poor Mr. Niska was expecting an earful from the Mrs. at dinnertime for torturing the nephew, tsk tsk. After giving the dopey kid a job in the first place, poor put upon Niska! It sure ain't easy being an evil overlord, is it? Maybe Tim & Joss should've done a Sopranos-like riff on Niska -- imagine pitching that to the evil overlords at Fox, "it's the Sopranos meets Star Wars!"
All joking aside, in hindsight, TTJ while structurally weak, is filled with plenty of wonderful character notes: Mal asking Inara if she's got time to do his hair too; Zoe telling Mal his brain is missing and then asking for his share if he gets killed; Kaylee's cheerful admission of crime-doing to Simon; and everything Jayne says and does! Plus Greg Henry as the sheriff does a wonderful job. His last exchange with Mal in the desert effectively introduces us to Mal's moral universe in a simple, straightforward way, without making the episode too neat. Nothing is simple in Mal's 'verse, but it's clear that he's no Niska and is more than willing to risk his life to stay that way.
punkinpuss | August 06, 17:56 CET
Maeve | August 06, 17:58 CET
eddy | August 06, 22:21 CET
newcj | August 06, 23:04 CET
Me! I was in the next room doing some 'splainin' to my friend's friend when when I heard, "Here's how it was --" and took off running. What a marvelous feeling, sitting down and knowing thousands of others, in various states of gleeful anticipation, were doing the same thing at the same moment. I've missed that sensation of communion and bonding with my invisible brethren every week more than I realized.
Wiseblood | August 07, 02:02 CET
'Management is not responsible for ball failure' [gg]
Vera_Samuels | April 05, 20:09 CET