It uh, makes me hope after Serenity, Universal will want to drop a new Firefly on oh, NBC or SciFi. Makes me really really really think there might be some hope out there.

Maybe network bigwig people will want to air a new 12-hour only sereies and then use fan reaction to launch movies. That might be kind of cool.

Joss, you are quite the trendsetter. :)

April | August 08, 20:41 CET

I think the writer has a point about science fiction being a niche genre (of course... we all know that), and that it will always do better in selected venues rather than appealing to 'all joes all the time'.

While I applaud Sci-Fi for stepping up to the plate for FF/Serenity NOW - I do wish they had done so back when Joss was looking for a new home for his baby. My stomach sours to think of what we could have had...possibly still have, if they had embraced it so willingly before..

And again, ok for Sci-Fi... but I reeeaallly want to see Joss and HBO get together for awhile. They have such a reputation for encouraging artists, and they are continuously turning out quality programming. Plus they have a LOT of money. Imagine the Fray we could have...

Willowy | August 08, 20:46 CET

Joss sure is, but the article does suggest that while the big nets will stick to typical shows, mainly clones of "CSI" or "Survivor", cable is now the idea place where out of the ordinary yet entertaining shows can thrive. Besides, such shows will get an audience worldwide, and that can be a new revenue stream for studios. Shows like "Over There", "Six Feet Under" and "Deadwood" have no chance in the bigger networks, but can get a big following thanks to cable.
Maybe Joss should have gone the cable route with "Firefly", or Tim Minear should have sent "Wonderfalls" to Showtime. Who knows? It's clear that traditional network fare is getting less innovative, while cable is the new source for shows that are just different than "CSI: Peoria" or whatever is next. Why else are the big three doing alien invasion shows because they think they can get the next "Lost"?
As for making "Fray" on HBO.....sounds good.

[ edited by impalergeneral on 2005-08-08 18:51 ]

impalergeneral | August 08, 20:50 CET

I don't they could afford Firefly back then. I don't think any cable network could have. I mean the only reason that Battlestar Galactica is being shown by SciFi is cause it's partly or even jointly funded by the UK broadcaster Sky One.

Simon | August 08, 20:51 CET

I didn't see any mention of the fact Fox showed the series in the wrong order or that the timeslot wasn't consistent.

killinj | August 08, 21:06 CET

Another thing that wasn't mentioned was that Joss was approached by Fox to specifically develop a series for their network. So it wasn't that Joss came up with this great idea for a show, and then decided to go with a bigger network over a cable one.

But, it is a good article that points out the problems for genre, plot driven shows on major networks. They are too impatient to take on a show like that and give it the chance to find it's audience. They mention the X-files but if that was starting out today it would be just as quickly cancelled as Firefly was. The X-Files just did not have big numbers at all in the beginning.

Firefly Flanatic | August 08, 21:40 CET

FWIW, that article picked out some stuff I said at a Firefly/Serenity panel at a convention. Other stuff was discussed as well, including that the episodes were shown out of order and that "The Train Job" was an awful way to lead off (also the subject of my essay in Finding Serenity).

krad | August 08, 22:47 CET

But they didn't mention that Firefly lost a chunk of its audience at the half, which means that many viewers who tuned in lost interest and found something else to watch.

Allyson | August 08, 22:56 CET

I'm sorry but the Sci-Fi Channel is not necessarily the best place for sci-fi these days and it most certainly wasn't the best back in 2001 when Firefly was running. They screwed plenty of quality shows back then and even screwed the best show they ever had when they cancelled Farscape. Something tells me they probably would've screwed Firefly as well.

flashofgenius | August 08, 23:42 CET

Was that a ratings trends for the entire series Allyson, or just for the premiere? 'Cause if it's just for the premiere, then insert the usual reply: "Yes, but maybe that's just 'cause it was The Train Job they used to introduce people."

It sucks that we'll never know how it would've gone down if they'd aired Serenity first, then all the episodes in order, including Trash/The Message/Heart of Gold. Foreign markets like the UK where it did air as intended, unfortunately they're not fair comparisons, given the different networks and ratings expectations, not to mention all the hype the series had gotten by then.

Kris | August 08, 23:43 CET

I remember tuning into the Train Job – I think that was it at least – partway through the episode, watching about 20 minutes of it and finally tuning out. As a Joss fan, though not quite fanatic, I knew about and was highly interested in his new show. But the fact that it was on on Friday nights meant I was almost never home for it, and that bit I saw of the Train Job, plus a few minutes of some later episode I no longer remember, just didn't have me caring about it much. It seemed like there were too many characters, the western thing seemed too contrived, and science fiction - with the ship and the future setting - has always been a hard sell for me in any case.
It was a few months after it came out on DVD that I finally decided to give it a chance again via Netflix. Of course, I now own the set and have watched the episodes several times. It doesn't inspire the same kind of love in me that Buffy does, but it's a brilliant show - just one that really needed time and space to hook people. When I watched the DVDs, even Serenity didn't do it the first time - I was maybe three or four episodes in before I realized I really cared about the characters. That, of course, is a hard sell for network TV, which wants a hit in just an episode. And the Train Job, clearly, was the wrong way to start. But I think even if they'd begun with Serenity, getting a sufficient audience probably would have taken more patience and loyalty than Fox was prepared to give.

acp | August 08, 23:53 CET

It was a trend, Kris.

Allyson | August 09, 00:01 CET

There was also the fact that Fox would pre-empt the show for baseball games over and over again. Many times I would tune in to watch Firefly and there would be a baseball game on. Fox would show Firefly after the game, at least on my Fox affiliate they did, but they very rarely even let people know that. I'm sure that also affected the numbers going down because people couldn't find the show. I know many people have posted about that being a major problem with trying to watch the show on Fox.

So instead of airing at 8 or 9 like it was supposed to be airing, it was showing up around midnight which would obviously not have as many people tuning into watch it (especially if they didn't even know it was on).

Firefly Flanatic | August 09, 00:32 CET

I think back when X-Files started, Fox wasn't as big as it is right now. Without WB and UPN on the way, it was actually the small and youngest brother in the big four networks.
They weren't as demanding. I think back then having WB / UPN ratings, wasn't as shameful as it it now, especially when you're showing the numbers for sponsors.
Fox was basically the network that was running 90210 and Melrose Place, wasn't it?

Then cable tv started to grow, and WB and UPN came in later on, Fox grew, and became the greedy network their nowadays.

Those were different times. I guess if X-Files started now, and didn't have, say Lost-ish number, would've been gone before episode 8. Or maybe would've gone longer, if Chris Carter started to take networks tips, to make the show more suitable, like making Scully and Mulder, dating right on, or something like that.

There are to many accountable factors, that inflicted into the demise of Firefly. Most of them could've been corrected, with a more supportive network, but we have to give them at least a cent, to have given Joss the chance to create it.

Numfar PTB | August 09, 03:11 CET

It's amazing reading all the "Shiny (new Fans)" thread over on the Sci-fi Firefly BBoard of people who had never even heard of this show when it first aired. To me, that is the biggest mistake that Fox made, they just didn't advertise it enough ahead of time. I remember Fox advertising the heck out of that "Skin" show I think it was called and other shows that were on about the same time that Firefly aired and I kept wondering why they weren't showing that much support for Firefly.

Firefly Flanatic | August 09, 03:34 CET

To me, that is the biggest mistake that Fox made, they just didn't advertise it enough ahead of time.

I hope Universal does not make the same mistake with the BDM.

nixygirl | August 09, 07:33 CET

I could not agree more. The thing w/ Joss is that he did not need elaborate sets, or expensive backdrops to tell a story. Yes, it would have been nice, and I'm sure he would not have turned it down, but the fact that Showtime or HBO could not have successfully developed a series from him is beyond belief.

two_guns | August 09, 07:38 CET

Yes, but what about shows like Farscape?

AnotherFireflyfan | August 09, 19:35 CET

Here's the Nielsen Ratings for 'Firefly' as aired on the Fox network. As you can see by the show's ranking with other shows on Fox, it didn't stand much of a chance. Being aired in the Friday night death slot certainly didn't help (as well as other things, but I've already harped on those matters enough).

Now, SCIFI would jump with joy with numbers such as these. However, that isn't realistic due to their smaller viewer base compared to Fox. Also, I truly doubt SCIFI had the capital (at least in 2002) to support a series such as 'Firefly'. The inital pilot 'Serenity' cost $10 million. Sure, Joss could of cut the budget to fit within the limitations of a cable network, but would it be the same 'Firefly' we fell in love with? IMHO, I believe this was the right series that came out at the wrong time. If you recall, the reality TV craze was in full swing then.

I would dance with joy to see Joss land a series on HBO.

Madhatter | August 09, 20:24 CET