Whedonesque : Comments on 7476 : Serenity rated 15 in UK.

Well in some ways this isn't great news as it limits Serenity's audience, but I think it may also work in the film's favour as it will make people think it is a more mature film. Plus, the fewer screaming/misbehaving kids in the cinema the better, in my opinion.

Razor | August 08, 21:56 CET

Well that is a pretty big gap between a 12A rating and a 15; I would have been happier if it had gotten a 12A, but I think I can understand the 15.

embers | August 08, 21:59 CET

For those of us who don't know anything about the UK rating system, could someone explain what the rating means exactly?

newcj | August 08, 22:04 CET

The UK rating system is relatively simple

U - Everyone can see it
PG - Kids under 8 need adult accompaniement
12A - Kids under 12 need adult accompaniement
15 - You have to be 15 to see the film
18 - You have to be 18 to see the film

I actually think the 15 rating is good, hopefully get more people interested in seeing it.

Ghost Spike | August 08, 22:08 CET

I think 15 sounds reasonable. What was the rating in the US again?

I'd be really miffed if I go see this and there are screaming kids in the theater, so limiting it to teens and up sounds good to me!

Rogue Slayer | August 08, 22:10 CET

In the US it will be PG-SNEAKINIFYOUREUNDER13!!!

[ edited by Chirp on 2005-08-08 20:17 ]

Chirp | August 08, 22:16 CET

PG-13, means you need an adult with you if you're under 13. In fact, you can get into an R film if you have an adult with you. I didn't realize that in the UK you couldn't see a film based on age even if you have your parents with you. Not that it matters to me because I can see it regardless of the rating.

killinj | August 08, 22:23 CET

Does our side of the pond even enforce the ratings? I saw Blade by myself when I was 14 and it was Rated R.

eddy | August 08, 22:30 CET

Enforcement is up to the theatre - some enforce better than others.

killinj | August 08, 22:32 CET

Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of a 12 year old getting denyed into a PG-13 movie. I mean, you can't exactly card them.

KypTheMovieGeek | August 08, 22:36 CET

Yep, you have to be the age in the UK. 12A used to be just 12, and under 12s werent allowed in, there was a lot of complaining about this around the time the first Spider-Man came out, and that's when it was changed.

Ghost Spike | August 08, 22:37 CET

On occasion I've been 'carded' at the theater for an 'R' movie, but that is so rare. And yeah, how many 'mature looking' 10 year olds can get into a PG13 movie. Probably all of them! There is no way to tell they aren't 13.

Which reminds me of when I was little...anyone else ever have your parents prep you to lie about your age? Our lies were usually for theme parks or restaurants. "Now, you say you're 5 so we can get a discount." "But Mommy, I'm 6 and 1/2." "Today you're 5!!"

No? So just me and my cheap-ass parents then...

Rogue Slayer | August 08, 22:42 CET

The difference between the UK 15 and the U.S. PG-13 is that the MPAA doesn't restrict entrance with a PG-13. It recommends a parent, but a five year old can still walk up and buy a ticket if they want to.

The Dark Shape | August 08, 22:50 CET

One might wonder if anything will be cut if Universal feels it absolutely necessary that it has to get a 12A rating.

Simon | August 08, 22:52 CET

Which reminds me of when I was little...anyone else ever have your parents prep you to lie about your age? Our lies were usually for theme parks or restaurants. "Now, you say you're 5 so we can get a discount." "But Mommy, I'm 6 and 1/2." "Today you're 5!!"

YES!!! I even remember taking it upon myself to slouch a little, to appear shorter... :O)

I have been carded for R movies. Of course, I am almost 26 and it was within the last two months that I was carded for cigarettes... the cashier actually apologized when she saw my age. (disclaimer: I don't smoke, I was buying them for a friend).

Miko | August 08, 22:57 CET

At 5 years old, I was never able to walk up and buy a ticket for even a rated G movie on my own, let alone a PG-13, the theatres around here wouldn't sell it to someone that age. I remember being asked for ID at the movie theatre for R rated films back when I still looked young enough to pass for underage. The theatres around here do their best to enforce it. Also, I find the idea of "mature looking 10 year olds" going to the theatre by themselves and actually having the money to buy their own tickets kinda depressing. We have AMC and Eastern Federal theatres here and they both card. If you don't have an ID and the theatre doubts your age they can refuse to sell you a ticket - I've seen them do it.

[ edited by killinj on 2005-08-08 21:05 ]

killinj | August 08, 22:58 CET

This may not be final.

I booked at the Filmworks site for one of the advance screenings, and the booking pages described the certificate as TBC. Only the film description shows it as a 15.

Additionally searching at bbfc.co.uk, the only relevant results for Serenity appear to be for the TV episode of that name, plus its DVD commentary.

So this may not be decided yet.

mjwilson | August 08, 23:41 CET

My son is HUGE, so whenever we would eat at a place that gave discounts to younger kids, they would always look at us funny. We only had to fight once to get the discount though.

The funny thing is that our son is also very smart and mature for his age, so we've been tempted on more than one occassion to instead claim that he's older than he really is. However, he's so incredibly honest that we knew he wouldn't let us get away with it.

Plus, why spoil a good thing by encouraging him to lie? Whatever short term advantage would be far outweighed by the long term.

[ edited by rkayn on 2005-08-08 22:03 ]

rkayn | August 09, 00:00 CET

It's 15 I believe (I spoke to UIP about it before the screening announcement went out).

gossi | August 09, 00:01 CET

That is gonna limit the audience but hopefully not by too much. To be honest though most 12 year old kids today in Britain are so blinged up with their Burberry handbags and trousers tucked into their socks that they look about 21. Not.

Innit. I feel like playing the Crazy Frog now. Ding Ding

Apocalypse | August 09, 00:19 CET

We used to get "carded" to get into PG-13 movies - you had to show a school ID declaring that you were in 7th grade or higher. I was twelve in the seventh grade, so I always felt so badass getting into those movies.

Now, however, I'm 22 and I get carded for rated-R movies every time I go to the theater. It always amuses me that I am forever getting carded to verify that I'm over 17 but hardly ever carded to verify that I'm 21 to get into clubs and bars.

binkaboo | August 09, 00:44 CET

Not surprised by the rating. I took a 34-year old district attorney friend who prosecutes violent crimes to the screening, and she said it was way too violent for her. ('Course, she followed that with a demand for the Firefly DVDs, so it wasn't totally lost on her...)

barest_smidgen | August 09, 00:55 CET

I used to work the box office at a movie theater and i never asked for ID for anyone unless i didn't like them. So when some kids would come up and be little idiots, i would ask them how old they were and if they said 12 and were trying to get into a PG13 movie i wouldn't sell them the ticket. I did it to those really obnoxious kids. Overall i would never ask to see ID for anything, it was up to me and i could care less.
I think that 15 rating won't hurt it more or help it more, i think the kids who can't see it will be canceled out by the people who now see it because they think it is more mature (How many kids were going to see it anyway? It is decidedly NOT a kids movie)

Dhoffryn | August 09, 01:06 CET

It works in Aussies favour to have an M (15+) rating on it. So many ppl would be turned off if it was anything under that, and to be honest...it shouldn't be. Without letting any spoilers out, it is totally acceptable for some under 15's to see it, but unless it's trimmed a bit; I don't think that every teen should be allowed to watch it. That being said, they never get carded where I live.

nixygirl | August 09, 07:06 CET

Well, I'm glad we don't live in the UK right now! My 12-year-olds have seen "Serenity" twice, and are saving the gift certificates they got for their birthday to see "Serenity" several more times once it's released.

Of course, there's no issue with having an adult along, because I'm going to be right there with them each time.

Why should they have all the fun?

Nebula1400 | August 09, 07:55 CET

Hmmm, I'm actually trying to remember/figure out what in Serenity would make it a 15 rating. (No I'm not asking for anyone to answer me and accidently spoil anyone.) I mean, some of the stuff in Firefly was way too scary for my 9 tear old son, the Reavers, the torture scene with Niska etc. So there was never a question of him going to the movie, but a 12 or 13 year old? Maybe I'm just a jaded American. ;-)

newcj | August 09, 08:06 CET

I don't konw what it's to be in Australia - but since my Region 4 Buffy, Angel and Firefly DVDs are all M15+ I'd been taking that as a benchmark.

purplehazel | August 09, 08:52 CET

My 12-year-olds are very seasoned Whedonverse fans. When the question of whether the movie was going to be rated "R" or "PG-13" was being pondered, we couldn't figure out what in the movie would merit an "R" rating. We talked about all the possible details that might earn it an "R" rating and concluded there weren't any - or at least not enough to make the movie so restricted.

Nebula1400 | August 09, 08:53 CET

I reckon 12 would be a better rating, but a 15 isnt to bad.

Spangel | August 09, 17:31 CET

I thought PG13 seemed like a very reasonable rating (for the States anyway). No one under 15 sounds a bit harsh to me, but as a former champion-movie-sneaker-inner, I'm probably biased. It's true the theaters here check IDs sometimes, but really not much. Most teens, especially under 16, don't have official IDs and generally speaking school IDs can't be used to confirm age because they are all different so they generally don't have birthdates on them. That was fun when I worked at a liquor store and people had no driver's liscence and wanted to buy cigarettes (you have to be 18). "I have a university ID." "There's no birthdate on that." "I wouldn't be in college if I wasn't 18!!!" That sort of thing.

I'm happy the movie has a PG13 rating here. Not letting 13 and 14 year olds in is a mistake to me, but I can't argue it will add to the movie's allure for some folks. Could a 13 or 14 years old appreciate this story as much as someone twice their ages? I doubt most of them could.

April | August 09, 17:32 CET

My BtVS region 2 UK DVDs are also rated 15 so it's no surprise 'Serenity' would get a similar rating. In fact, 'Firefly' strikes me as having a more mature theme.

Madhatter | August 09, 17:40 CET

I agree Madhatter, I felt the toture scenes with Niska were enough to warrant a 15 rating. As far as im concerned Buffy has never done anything so disturbing.

Spangel | August 09, 18:00 CET

Ooh and to continue my point (sorry bout that) Buffy has got a 15 rating for what I consider to be less offensive or scary things.

Spangel | August 09, 18:01 CET

You are right Spangel, those are pretty chilling scenes. Sure made me get wide-eyed (at least the first couple/few times).

My most disturbing Joss moment? When Zoe informs Simon about the Reavers and what they will do to you. That hit me in the gut hard and I actually love those lines because of the sheer impact they had on me. I always think of those lines when the ratings issue comes up. As chilling as they are, I'm in favor of a 13 year old being allowed to hear those words. So much is conveyed in nothing more than ordinary language, and it's almost like a lesson for young ones who see it -- ordinary words can have a load of impact when you learn to use them this effectively. Not introducing the Reavers to us in Firefly, at least not extensively, totally added to their creepiness. Most truly horrifying tv and film moments, imho, are defined by what the artists imply and not always what they show you. Takes some brains to do that well.

April | August 09, 18:22 CET

Being a 15 (or even an 18) in this country doesn't seem to have the same stigmatism that it does in the US. Loads of films get an 18 certificate over here and do very well, whereas an NC-17 in the US seems to be considered the kiss of death somehow. For example both Ghost and The Sixth Sense were rated 15 and are in the top 50 all time box office takers (not that the're the only 15's in there, just the 1st examples I found). I'm not saying it won't hurt the box office, but it definitely won't do irreparable damage.

[ edited by Paul_Rocks on 2005-08-09 16:28 ]

Paul_Rocks | August 09, 18:27 CET

Gossi - I haven't read any Serenity spoilers in here. Are you refering to the Firefly spoilers?

edit: OK thread title was changed as wrote this.

[ edited by nixygirl on 2005-08-09 16:44 ]

nixygirl | August 09, 18:42 CET

Well having seen Serenity on a preview night I have to say I kind of agree with 15. This is not a kid's movie in any way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of those rating systems in any country (especially how violence is always fine, but a single nipple sends them screaming and tearing at their hair) but I probably wouldn't take my 13 year old to see this. If I had one that is.

And besides, to a certain part of the mainstream audience, the fact that it's not a family film should only make it more attractive.

EdDantes | August 09, 19:34 CET

You are right about the "family film" label, Ed. I never go see them.

April | August 09, 19:39 CET

Yeah, a lot of my friends don't like going to the cinema as it is, but the minute there's a chance of it being full of kids it's all over.

Paul_Rocks | August 09, 20:18 CET

Ah yes, as Bruce Campbell said of the MPAA ratings for films, "You can shoot a boobie, but you can't kiss a boobie."

Rogue Slayer | August 09, 20:33 CET

I'm not a big fan of those rating systems in any country (especially how violence is always fine, but a single nipple sends them screaming and tearing at their hair)

In the UK it tends to be the other way around with sex scenes less of a problem than violence

Certain things that be easily imitated,like headbutts, are totally banned from being shown.They cut a scene in the first Scooby Doo for that reason.

garda39 | August 09, 21:13 CET

Paul_Rocks, I don't think the UK and USA ratings really correlate to each other.

Ghost and Sixth Sense were both rated PG13 here in the States. That is the rating that most action movies want so they can get the full teenage market without people thinking that it is a movie for little kids. An R will apparently really cut down on the audience because that is saying that this is a movie for adults only. My recollection from when the NC-17 came to be, is that it is a rating that was invented to replace an X rating because the X rating was associated with pornography. NC-17 is supposed to indicate that it is considered a legitimate film with artistic content but with extremely adult content that has elements that may verge on or be considered pornography by some people or groups. That is why NC-17 can be considered the kiss of death.

Things may have changed or that may not be the technical definition, but if enough people remember it that way, than it may as well be the case.

newcj | August 09, 21:34 CET

It's interesting to me how much stricter the British system is than the American, and apparently how much more strictly enforced. Enforcement in the U.S. has varied greatly by region -- or at least it did until the crackdown a few years back with most theaters now posting that they'll check IDs for R rated films. I'm a So. Californian, and personally, I've never seen or heard of any child of any age being kept out of a PG-13 film -- I'm pretty sure that it's supposed to be strictly advisory rating to help parents out and not a specific age limit as with the R and NC-17, though theaters are always free to practice whatever sort of restrictions they want. (Like keeping "babes in arms" out of all movies, which some theaters used to do.)

In practice, as a frequent moviegoer, I'm frequently accosted by the site of an adult bringing several small kids into manifestly inappropriate movies. I saw several small children when I saw the very R-rated "Wedding Crashers" last week (actually a good, slightly quirky movie with a strong story and characters, btw -- as if I've said before, it's success could be a good sign for "Serenity"). You gotta wonder how parents dealt with the moderately graphic sex and the overt kinkiness of the some of the scenes.

bobster | August 10, 01:03 CET

That's the thing, bobster. If you are bringing little kids to an R film, which I suppose is one's right, you aren't dealing with scenes like that at all. Parents who take little kids to these movies aren't the same parents who have heart to heart conversation with their kids about what happened during those scenes. They are parents who don't care what their kids see. I worked in day care... is anyone surprised we had toddlers who would dole out headbutts, karate chops, bites and other damage to their fellow toddlers? It's a common problem in US preschools and kindergartens. I can't say much about the rest of the world, however.

April | August 10, 03:12 CET

I'm in agreement with garda39 who said that sex scenes are less of a problem in the UK than violent scenes. The same is true throughout Europe. It's interesting that in the US, violence seems to be fairly readily accepted, but as soon as there's any kind of sex or sexual reference, that's more of a no go area.

Impossible | August 10, 17:40 CET

August 08 2005