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August 11 2005

Joss Luvs Veronica.

This is my attempt at posting my own thread. My peeps and I just finished a crazed Veronica Marsathon, and I can no longer restrain myself. Best. Show. Ever. Seriously, I've never gotten more wrapped up in a show I wasn't making, and maybe even more than those. Crazy crisp dialogue. Incredibly tight plotting. Big emotion, I mean BIG, and charsimatic actors and I was just DYING from the mystery and the relationships and PAIN, this show knows from pain and no, I don't care, laugh all you want, I had to share this. These guys know what they're doing on a level that intimidates me. It's the Harry Potter of shows. There. I said it. People should do whatever they can to check out this first season so the second won't be a spoiler fest. I'm nutty.

I'm a little calmer now. Oh God, no I'm not! Wait. Wait. Okay. Some of you may already be all up on this, and some may disagree, but I'm urging peeps to check it out, 'cause there is great TV afoot, and who doesn't want that? Thank you for your time.

Still not calm! Wait... wait...

I'm glad to report that many of us Whedonesquers are already great fans of Veronica Mars, but I still don't think it stands up to Firefly, or the best seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Angel.
Wow, JW, seriously feeling the Veronica love now. Good job with that. Not really buying the intimidation factor though.

But what about Deadwood? Inquiring minds want to know . . .

BTW, great to hear that you are gleaning some free time for yourself and compadres. Way to go, Mr. Workathon! :)
Yay, it's a Joss thread, I love Veronica Mars as well, the show is terrific. It really grabbed me right from the premiere, but the second half of the season was excellent. :)

[ edited by rabid on 2005-08-12 06:59 ]
See. Now I have to get into this show. If Joss likes it then why can't I? I at this point was only going to watch season 2 to see Charisma but I better give the first season DVD a whirl too.
Joss! I've been waiting for a post like this from you all year! I couldn't possibly agree more.
So... would you say you "wuv it beary much"?
I LOVE IT TOO! YAY! We are all so happy and celebratory together!
YAY! Joss goes all fangeeky like the rest of us mere mortals! Yeah, yeah, of course, you're mortal, too, blahblahblah. But it's still fabulous to see.

I got my mitts on the pilot last week and watched it -- Veronica totally charmed my pants off. I'm *ahem* getting the rest of the episodes now via TOTALLY LEGAL I SWEAR internet-type means. This just makes me anticipate it more.
I love it too - just not as much as a few other shows that used to be on tv!! If you want to watch some crazy fun stuff check out Farscape - they even mention Buffy!! And they did a looney tunes episode. How come you never did one of those?

Hey mods, Joss didn't even put in a thread - what is he special or something?!
Yay! I feel the same way about Veronica, Joss. It's the only show that I can rate on the same level your shows. First rate story-telling, I say. I'm so glad my favorite TV creator loves my new favorite show! Wow, I'm so giddy.

ETA: Oh, and I wanted to add that no, one season of VM doesn't stand up to seven seasons of Buffy or 5 seasons of Angel. But give it time... It's definitely got the potential.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-08-12 07:11 ]
Oh yeah, and SNT, I'm a new fan of DEADWOOD, too. :) REALLY tight writing. I'm only on episode 3, but I'm in love with the evil saloon owner. Even though he's hateful. I love it when stories do that.

Good TV makes my heart go boom.
And to think I used to be an intern on this show. WHY didn't I stay there?! Oh yeah, there were legitimate reasons. Oh well, I still like watching it and I'm glad to see that Joss does too. =)
Yeah, bl, I was thinking of chiding Mr. Whedon about the linklessness - and then I slapped myself. :)

Did add some tags though . . . hey, not everyone gets the chance to, like, edit Joss's writing, right? ;)
Thank you Joss. I completely agree and I'm using some of my Browncoat skills in guerilla marketing to spread the word. I'm trying to initiate a Entertainment Weekly Cover Story Campaign to get the word out.

Hey Joss, wouldya write a letter to EW and ask for a cover story on VM? I think that might help us out a wee bit.

Check out
No laughing here. Just a big nod and 'word.' So much love for VM.
As long as there are tags then that's okay!
Veronica's Dad! I love his character. When I saw previews I wasn't sure he fit the part but, wow! I was way off....he's great. Everyone is great.
I also really like ummmm...his father was played by Harry Hamlin....ummmm...that guy...he was the perfect spoiled-rich-kid-angst-ridden-puppy-dog ever...ha!

Great plotting, sharp fun dialogue...yup...

It IS a great show, but sorry Joss, I'm still in Angel-withdrawal and would choose it anyday over Veronica!

[ edited by creepy6 on 2005-08-12 07:22 ]

[ edited by creepy6 on 2005-08-12 07:50 ]
yeah I started watching it 3 weeks ago (cause I was looking for some stuff to watch this summer). I didnt see it last season because it went against House. GLAD they moved it to wednesday (but I think Lost airs at the same time). Definitely a great show.
hey, not everyone gets the chance to, like, edit Joss's writing, right? ;)

Watch it. He may declare that he'll never write another post he can't moderate.

"No-one's going to ruin my posts but me!"

of course, veronica mars is a brilliant show with brilliant acting.

but if you want a show that's even more perfectly plotted (you gotta admit that finale was good on the emotion, but not so much a pay-off plot-wise) and more brilliantly acted, go check out SIX FEET UNDER. That's one show you didn't mention in your interview, and it disappointed me because I would think you'd be a huuuuge fan. So have you never seen it? Didn't like it? Or was it just an oversight? I must know!

The most recent episode "All Alone" reminded me of "The Body" a lot. It didn't detail the events and numbness right after a death, but it did chronicle the funeral process and the loss of a family member in the same realistic, heavy way. You (and everyone) should really check it out.

[ edited by narky on 2005-08-12 07:17 ]
Beware the spoilery post above! Somebody hit Creepy6 with a spoiler tag! Do you people think this is a GAME?
I've been telling everyone I know that VM is one of the best shows on tv for a year now, And no one believes me. So, thanks for backing us Veronica fans up, It been a good night to have insomnia.
Oops...sorry Joss, I removed it. Yikes! I got so excited I didn't even notice that little 'spoilery' statement.
All gone....
I gotta agree that having a Marsathon was a GREAT idea. I didn't get into VM when there was all that annoying waiting between episodes. But watching it all in a row was like CRACK. Or yummy, naughty, tasty chocolate.

That's how I came to love Firefly, too. Damn Fox: all that out-of-order, preempted, weeks and weeks between episodes thing? So not cool. DVDs though -- wicked cool. Stayed up all night, watched 'em all in a row. TASTY.

P.S.: Kristen Bell is on the front page of IMDb right now!
Dammit, fine. I'll blind-buy Veronica Mars: Season 1 on DVD. I haven't done that since Firefly, and we all know how THAT turned out.

Oh, wait...
Thanks, Cree. I freaked a little there, but it's all good.
So glad to hear you're up on the VM love!! When people said it was "the new Buffy" I didn't believe them until I actually checked it out and... yes, yes it is.

I definitely feel like Kristen Bell has SMG's ability to carry a show on her shoulders and draw viewers into her story. Someone give this woman an Emmy, dammit!

I really hope your seal of approval will get some more people to watch, cuz they don't know what they're missing! Hurrah for season 2!

~Alice :)
I've been watching since "Clash of the Tritons" and I've caught up on all the old episodes. Awesome show. I had watched almost every episode of "Lost" to that point and was still on the fence and all it took was one episode of VM (with not much background info) to hook more than 11 episodes of "Lost" had.

Yay! Joss luvs Veronica Mars and so do I. Now we just gotta get the rest of these reality show addicts on board.
That settles it. I've been trying to decide what to watch tonight while I have no new shows, and because of this thread, I'm going with Veronica. Now I have to decide on which episode(s).
We just saw Joss fangirl. I'm without speech. :)
creepy6 - his name is Logan - actor is Jason Dohring - best character arc I think.

Please let there be a Season 3 and 4, etc. etc.

(I'm still bitter about the cancellation of Tales of the Gold Monkey...)
So glad to see more love for VM! Hopefully this will drive more Whedonesquers there over the summer and for season 2, so we don't have to worry so much about getting a season 3 (looking ahead joyfully!). I've been hooking people over the summer! Yay VM! Yay Joss!
Took you long enough! One of my favorite new shows along with Lost and Desperate Housewives. People always give me weird looks when I say Veronica Mars is one of my favs (because they've never heard of it or because it's on UPN or because I'm not wearing any pants)...but they really don't know what they're missing. Can't wait for the second season to start!
Oh, and to think that some of you teased me about my VM love. Suddenly very quiet from the peanut gallery... :)
Sure thing, Joss. I'm as anti-spoiler as one can be. Gotta watch that zeal...I lost my head!

By the way, the only TV series I've ever marathoned without having seen it before was Firefly and well...I felt like you did in your opening post...I was blown away for days.

I remember popping in the DVD to watch only one episode...then, the remaining eps over the weekend...ha! Straight through! It was tremendous!
Do you think I'm naive to try to get EW to do a cover story just based on fans writing in and asking for it?

Is it worth a shot?

We can but try.
Oh, and you're lucky to only have a month and a half until the second season starts, unlike those of us who have been agonizing for the past two months about how certain storylines are going to play out. There was excellent resolution of the major mysteries in the finale (trying to be vague here - don't want to get in trouble), but enough major consequences and questions are left for us to obsess over. Anyone thinking about getting the S1 dvds, be warned: they don't come out until after the second season starts. Ack!
I already spent $35 on issues 1-18 of Runaways because you recommended it in some interview.

Now I have to buy this.

Stop recommending things!
VM is my favorite show along with his. I hope the second season is just as good. It would be great if he could write an episode.

[ edited by charisma on 2005-08-12 08:07 ]
I love Joss and I love Joss just a tiny bit more after that post. Yay with the Veronica love. And how many times can I say love in one post?
Yay with the VM love! It's a close thing whether this is my favourite new show (the other contender being Lost, of course!) and it's great to see Joss getting as geeky about it as the rest of us!
Oh, sure, you were watching House all season, thinking that the show about some blonde teenager on that tiny little network wasn't really worth watching, and now, now, you come around, jumping on our (rather full, thank you very much) bandwagon thinking you're so special just because you're...

Okay. You're Joss. You're special. You were probably too busy working on some movie to watch TV. I will restrain my urge to point, laugh, and yell "Ha! I knew you people would like it! Haven't I been telling you to watch that show all season?" because (a)Joss and (b)I didn't actually mention that to you, personally. (Sorry. But you did find it anyway.)
A Veronica Mars episode written and directed by Joss Whedon would be a dream.
Barry Woodward, you are a genius. Someone call Rob Thomas right away. Maybe Joss can direct a musical episode? Anyone who saw "Reefer Madness" knows Kristen Bell can sing!

Also, who else thinks Kristen Bell looks a lot like Emma Caulfield? I'm just sayin'.
Oh, it so would be.
Someone seriously needs to order the Australian networks to screen Veronica Mars. I don't think they have any clue what they're missing out on. I've already seen the first season, but still. Me wants VM here!
Joss, I would also recommend that now that you've watched all the eps - head on over to Television Without Pity and read the recaps. They add an extra dimension of funny.

And I emailed Joss' post to RT. heh.
Veronica Mars is the best show on TV right now, but it still ain't got nothing on Joss's shows. Joss, I know you're doing movies now and we're all happy about that but we need a new TV series from you.

Anyone else find it ironic that Joss didn't watch this show until after the season ended, that he wasn't aware of a great show that's become a cult hit with a very small but loyal audience?
Considering Alyson Hannigan guest starred in season one and Charisma Carpenter is guest starring this season, getting Joss to guest direct an episode seems like the next logical step. Also, he's tight with Joel Silver.
Thank the PTB for DVD box sets. Here in Canada carrier CTV delayed running the danged show for, what, almost a year. I see you guys in the U.S. are on S2? We're just getting messed with here, what with running the eps out of order and in different time slots (I'm having a Fox flashback . . . grrr, argh!).

DVDs coming Oct. 11, six discs and 935 mins. And Serenity between now and then. Gotta love it.
I was bad and I DL'd Season 1 (and will buy the DVD when it comes out) so I'd be caught up for Season 2 - hey it's how I watched the last three eps of Firefly!

And I'm using it to convert more people. And that's how I sleep at night. Okay I have insomnia - but that's how I WOULD sleep at night if I could.
I just started watching Veronica Mars. The pilot left me cold the first time through, but I gave it another shot and warmed a bit. I've watched a couple more episodes now, and am totally getting into it. And I just watched my first episode of House today. This shows great potential.

But Joss. Dude. I agree that you must watch Six Feet Under. It's my very favoritist, after all things Whedon, of course.
Course what Brit fans are wondering is what Joss will think of the revamped Doctor Who. Best non Buffy Buffy show ever?

Anyhow when is Veronica Mars coming to the UK?
Veronica Mars rawks my socks. Total agreement on the charismatic acting and the serious *pain* going on. There were so many moments that just completely blew me away, on all accounts. Oh, and all the funny! And clever/sneaky spy stuff! *glee*
Simon -- still testy about the wrapup of the whole 'Bad Wolf' thing myself, but were not Steven Moffat's pair of eps two of the best Doctor eps of ALL TIME ('The Empty Child' and 'The Doctor Dances')? A truly fantastic show... By the by, VM is the newest 'Show to Watch' over at imdbTV -- Link Here -- which refers to it as "the smartest teen-oriented show since Buffy the Vampire Slayer,".

Edited to add -- SIMON-- Here is some news on VM going UK. Sounds like it should be on the schedules this fall.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-08-12 08:34 ]
Joss, I think it's cool that you're using your power for good. VM is an excellent, complicated, witty ride and deserves to be given every chance to continue storytelling. (Shades of Angel...sigh.)

Whedonesque reserves the right to edit people's posts as not to spoil Joss for Veronica Mars - Simon.

[ edited by Simon on 2005-08-12 08:41 ]
Aver - ix-nay on the oiler-spay.

If we could get the Browncoat guerilla marketing machine behind VM....we could take over the world. Or possibly get a few more seasons.

Simon: I'm still recovering from the Doctor Who line "Looks like somebody needs a Doctor."
VM is the only show I've ever put up on the same pedestal as the Whedonverse, so it made me grin to see Joss feeling the same way I do about it. It's smart, subtle, funny, well-planned, well-written, and the part about the PAIN bears much repeating.

I've been hooking all of my friends who love the Whedonverse on it. Even though we still spend ages talking about the 'Verse, this is the first time since AtS that we've had an on-air show to debate about characterization, mysteries, and plot twists from week to week, and I definitely feel like VM has recaptured a lot of the magic in that sense.

[ edited by risingwaves on 2008-06-02 01:55 ]
I didn't think that was a spoiler, but ok.
I'm excited about a future VM castmember that is familiar, as is my recently converted friend. I wish the DVD set was coming out earlier, so as to make other conversions easier.
Simon can you put a thing at aver's post that says season 2 spoilers? I read that thinking it was about season 1. :(
Just when I finally decide to do some real live work, Joss comes on with his Veronica Mars lovefest! Rob Thomas must be crying man tears of joy knowing Joss Whedon has heaped such praise upon his show.

It's no contest. Wednesday nights, Veronica Mars gets first place on our TV screen. All others will be videotaped for later viewing.
They should get Joss' whole post on the back of the box of the DVD, or have a huge star on the front that says "Recommended by the creator of Buffy, Angel, Firefly and the motion picture smash hit Serenity!" help 'em leap of the shelves.

Yep, I'm curious as to what Joss will think of new Doctor Who which is probably the best thing I've watched since Angel finished, whenever it reaches America hopefully he loves it, and then the begging to Russel T. Davies to write what would be the best Doctor Who episode ever could begin.
I loved VM from the very first episode - the only one I didn't like was the "annoy like the wind" ep, but upon re-watching that, I realized it was better than the best episode of House, (which I would sometimes turn on at 9:50 to make sure his patient was having their 9:50 seizure on time.)

..."the Harry Potter of shows" lol Thanks for validating us VM fans!!! *cries with gratitude*
OK so does anyone know WHEN or EVER this may come to Australia? Or will I have to picket TV studios again.

Also...Joss, you squeal like a little girl on Chaos Bleeds! But I do love it, and it is nice to bash my teenages to death with you (on the game of course...) ;)

[ edited by nixygirl on 2005-08-12 10:08 ]
So...ex-Buffy and Angel cast member *and* Joss endorsement. Can we post VM stuff on the main board now?
Now this sucks. I was so releaved that Joss had no more shows on TV. I don't have time to follow a show! Do you hear me Joss? I command you to develop a Kubrickesque work ethic now. I have work to do! And don't you dare and recommend any more shows. Gah, now is there a torrent ...?
Leave the house for a couple hours and look what happens!

That made my night. VM is a fantastic show, and was without question my favorite new show last season. I'm so glad you're on board with the VM love!
Thanks Joss for sharing your views on this show. Veronica Mars needs all of the support it can muster at the moment to gain ratings and compete against Lost this year.

I've been hooked on it for all of the reasons you gave and it's truly one of the best non sci-fi/supernatural shows I've seen. The writing is tighter than Mal's pants!

I'd love it if you got the chance to write/direct an episode!
I haven't had the opportunity to see this show yet as I live way down south in the land of waiting years for tv, aka Australia... anyway I'm very excited about what I've heard (Kristen from E! Online's enthusiasm is generally a good indicator of what's worth watching, but Joss now too!) and I can't wait to see it. I read Joss's post but was too scared to read anyone elses. It it safe to read for someone who knows nothing about it other than a certain Buffy alumni guest?

Also to any other Aussies reading this, I read in the TV Week back in January that we will get it, and I assumed it would have started already, now I'm beginning to think we may have to wait for the Christmas holidays. I'm not sure which channel, probably 7.
Yeah okay.


No, not Michael Bay's glossotron, I meant the United Kingdom. Are imported DVD's the only way to go?
Hey BuffBuff, the post are safe. Joss gives someone curry for posting a spoiler!
I suppose we shouldn't complain too loudly...
we do get Serenity before the rest of the world. *merciless laugh* ;)
Ok Joss, I urge you, breathe... But yeah, I love Veronica Mars above all other TV shows that hasn't you yourself listed as a creator. It even managed to break the holy triad of Jossyness when it pushed Firefly to fourth place (so what, I list things right and left, I know I'm weird). I never thought that would happen, all other shows are aeons behind. I agree with previous poster, a Joss penned Veronica Mars would be heaven. Not sure how you'd feel about being rewritten but I guess Rob Thomas might be off the hook considering he penned the masterpiece in the first place.

[ edited by Djungelurban on 2005-08-12 11:16 ]
Seeing a lot of praise for Dr. Who on the board. This is puzzling. As it is poo. I doubt that Mr. Whedon will want to trouble himself further after viewing the pilot. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be good. Desperately I do. And I will tune in to the second season in that hope. But it is like supporting Leeds. You watch them because you hope against the odds that they can turn it around, but you don't recommend them to a friend.
In a very recent post on Whedonesque Joss wrote

Don’t emote in public

I am just so confused now. You sit at the master’s feet for ages and listen to the teachings and now this. Say one thing and then do another! My little head is spinning. Oh, what to believe.

After this I have to question all the things my teachers told me, particularly the bits about how drink and drugs and casual sex are not good for you. Say Joss, do you think this is a GAME? :)

Also just wanted to say that we are very VM-less in the UK so I have to check it out some other way (legally of course), but I completely second the ‘Six Feet Under’ love. This really is a great show. As is ‘The Wire’ which people here also recommended and I love to bits.
Really? This is good to know. Having not actually owned a set in over a decade, I only watch tv that Whedonesquers recommend--I can hardly ask for a more reputable source than Joss! It was comments he made about Sorkin that ever made me watch WW and Sports Night. I'm very excited now to have another show to look forward to now!

(Trying hard not to read the other comments now lest there be unwitting spoilers...)
I gave up on VM after about 7 or 8 episodes (I blame it on serious lack of adult male eye candy). I'm guessing a weekend marathon may be the best way to get back into it.
Good shout about Sorkin, the first two seasons of West Wing are as close to perfect TV as I have seen.
Funny coincidence: I watched the first episode of VM last night (downloaded it - I live in Spain now and it isn't being shown: even if it was it would be dubbed into Spanish) and I got a feeling I haven't had since the first time I saw "Welcome to the Hellmouth". I still miss Buffy and Angel, but I suspect this show will make a pretty good replacement.
I agree Andy Dufresne. I really don't see how Dr Who can ever be compared to something on Buffy's level. I'm sorry, but the BBC just can't do it. A one-liner in Veronica Mars would be more entertaining than a whole episode of Dr Poo. It was painful trying to watch it imho.

Veronica Mars really needs to be picked up by a mainstream channel in the UK. It would be ideal on Channel 4 / e4, but I guess they don't look for quality as such any more, but go on the US ratings... hence The OC's position...
This just made my day. :)

Unlike Lost and a myriad of other shows last season, Veronica Mars has a finale that's actually satisfying and leaves you wanting more.
Okay. This thread has me convinced to finally check it out. Maybe Veronica Mars can even be one of the TV specs I knock away at in between procrastinating.
I fell in love with VM from the first moment and felt that it came closest to capturing the kind of magic and good writing that characterized Buffy. KB is a superb actor, and she is surrounded by a great supporting cast, with a secret weapon in Enrico Colantoni. But what moxy VM has; like Buffy, she never gives up, she just has to know. All we need is Willow on the show, lol. Too bad Aly is already Trina. Anyway, this is the only show that I will not miss, that engaged me each week and made we wonder what was coming next, what the answers to the mysteries were and how they were going to work it all out- and then they did, they did. Unlike Lost, which, uh, lost its way as the season went on. To hear Joss say how much he likes this says a lot. I miss Buffy like a pain in my heart, but this does a great job of making that pain a little less.

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2005-08-12 17:32 ]

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2005-08-12 17:36 ]
Unlike Lost, which, uh, lost its way as the season went on and ended without answering a single major question

Ack! Guys come on... we haven't seen the ending yet in Oz!
This is just so great. I'm glad Joss took the time to share his opinion. It could help convert others, which is good.

I love Veronica also. It's the only thing on TV that I consider a worthy successor to Buffy. It's not a clone and I wouldn't want it to be, but the quality is there. I hope it survives.
Joss, I lobe you. For those of you just getting into Veronica Mars, may I recommend a website? Is that okay to do here? It's not mine, so it's not self-promotion or anything. I'll trust the Bosses here to edit this if it's not acceptable behavior: - a beginner's guide to Veronica Mars.

There's also some great analysis out there, accessible from this LJ community:
This is the first time I've seen this level of analysis for a show (you'll need to scroll through all the stuff on Cupid, Rob Thomas's other show to get to the VM stuff) since Slayage and other Buffy-related scholarly works.

All we need is Willow on the show, lol.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Mac. Cutest computer nerd since Willow. Possibly EVER, but I might be saying that only because she and I both have dark hair.

...Now I need to go watch my videos of this show, again. And again. And again. But not JUST because Joss likes it, mind you. That was just a kick in my nerdy nerdy pants to get me moving.

ETA: Joss, would you mind if I copied and pasted your post to

[ edited by Kiba on 2005-08-12 14:49 ]

[ edited by Kiba on 2005-08-12 15:14 ]
Kiba, you beat me to the punch on the Mac thing. She's a great actress and character, and I hope she gets added to the cast next season.

Anyone who doubts me should see the episode Silence of the Lamb. Her ability to make me feel for her reminds me a lot of Aly.
Hi Joss!
Ok, I'll go get the season one DVD and catch up. Um, after I get paid. Don't worry, loads here love it and have been spreading that love for quite some time. What I've seen isn't at all better than your shows, but hey! It's pretty darn good! Only Battlestar Galactica has come remotely close to filling my empty Whedon tv schedule. Now that you love it, I shall follow orders and love it too. :)
Great to see your post.
ps I FLIPPED over the BDM and after that my next two summer movies were totally boring. Hint: They weren't supposed to be.
pps Gregory House is the new tv character who intrigues me most. :)
ETA: Ooops. I just read the DVDs don't come out til later. Ok, I'll watch either a marsathon or remain unspoiled 'til they come out. But for the record, I just picked up 1-6 of Runaways and I didn't even know you put your seal of approval on it. Very cool.

[ edited by April on 2005-08-12 15:09 ]

[ edited by April on 2005-08-12 15:14 ]
Joss has such fantastic taste. ;)

I love VM - watched it from the very beginning. I nearly had a heart attack last year when there was some speculation about whether or not it would be renewed for a second season. I just hope that the timeslot move doesn't kill the show - it is far too worthy. And KB is just as cute as a button.

VM is by far my favourite non-sci-fi show on t.v. May it have a long life.
Glad you found some time to relax and enjoy a wonderful show, Joss. I think it's safe to say that most people here love Veronica. The one theme we all have in common here is our love of well written, intelligent shows. Seems when we do find one, the network ends up cancelling it. It was a good day when UPN stood by VM by giving the series a thumbs up for a second season.

Course what Brit fans are wondering is what Joss will think of the revamped Docter Who. Best non Buffy Buffy show ever?

Simon, you're going to cause me to pick up another series. You were certainly on the money with 'Battlestar Galactica' and 'Shaun of the Dead'.
Wow, that is some post. I agree VM is really excellent TV, though I am certainly not ready to take the crown away from the Buffyverse. Unfortunately I missed the whole first half of the season. I came in on it when someone on this site recommended it and said that they were rerunning the pilot last Winter. I am not good at catching shows every week so I have managed to see the same episodes twice, and still have not seen anything other than the pilot from the first half. Oh well I always catch up with things in reruns, so what if I'm always a few years behind. (sigh)

Joss,on a personal note, your post made it sound like you actually like pain. Now I'm not being judgemental here but...(what?...Joss WHEDON?...THE Joss Whedon?...Oh...OOOOOOH.) Sorry, never mind about that silly pain thing, I didn't realize. Hey, I saw a rerun from Gilmore Girls the other night. Talk about your pain! Had me curled up in a ball renewing my vow to swear off men until my son is out of High School. Good times!

After the really bad pain had subsided and I could function again, I did have that WTF moment when I remembered reading that Laura Graham had not been nominated for an Emmy. It was the same reaction I had after I discovered BTVS in reruns and looked up how many Emmys Joss, the show, and James Marsters had won (cause I figured they'd needed a truck.) Imagine my surprise.
I started to watch VM mid-season because it was being compared to Buffy. Now I can say I am a fan of the show. It really grows on you once you give it a chance. Also, an episode written and directed by Joss would be awesome.
Love VM, too. Glad I'm in such great company. And glad it's getting the exposure lately that it needs and deserves. Natch, I'm gone from the PC for a day and miss a Joss post.....I just love to know that he's always lurking somewhere. Joss, you're my idol.
This feels like a show you have to watch from start to finish, because I tried an episode here and there, but I didn't really get the magic that everyone kept talking about. However, I do feel a great sense of shame that I shunned a show that Joss cares about so much :( It's so great of him to not only visit the web-log, but also to tell us about other shows not affiliated with him. *sighs* I love my captain...
I always had a sneaking suspicion Joss had good taste, and now he's confirmed it. VM was far and away the best thing on TV last year. Can't wait for season 2...and 3...and 4...
Deadwood's better.

And hey! Kristen Bell stars in two episodes!
Ha...that's the best bit of news I've read all week. And that's saying alot, because: yeah.

Crazy, I finished a Veronica Marsathon with my sister, around the exact same time this was posted! And while I'm pretty sure Joss wasn't there, I didn't actually check to see if he was in the room (this time). So if I missed you, Joss - sorry, man. If I knew you were over, I would've at least put out onion dip or something.

Anyway, this was my second time watching the season (I've been here since the ground floor - my sister missed the elevator), and it's even better the second time around. I guess it's because I knew the characters more personally this time, but far as, uh, "emotion" goes? I was a wreck.

But the two main reasons I love Veronica: 1. Veronica is the coolest. And 2. Stuff. It just keeps happening. Everywhere you look, no matter what episode you turn to - there's stuff happening, everywhere. Seriously, I haven't seen this much stuff on TV in who-knows-how-long.
Wow...Joss has VM love. Ain't that a kick in the head. Hubby and I couldn't make it through the first episode, because Joss' shows have spoiled us for television in general, and here he is singing its praises. Might have to reconsider. Might end up being the new 'Buffy' for me in the sense that I scoffed at it and then ended up lurving it. I don't think so, but I might give it another chance.
Man, this is going to be rough. Voluntarily watching a show I know I already don't like, just to push past the weak bits(Someone told me it really gets good around episode 10, but that's a lot of bad episodes to sit through...)
But since the only scripted shows I watch are House, Gilmore Girls, and Family Guy(maybe Lost, although it's on the fence with keeping my attention) I could fit it into my schedule.

Ah well...I hope someday I can eat my words and just fall in love with it...
If it hadn't been for the prodding of another Whedonesque friend, I wouldn't have stuck with VM, but I'm glad I did. I hardly ever cry over a tv show, well, not since the glory days of BtVS, AtS, & Firefly, but there were some fantastic moments during the season finale that really got to me. It's not without its faults, but VM gets it right where it counts -- with character development and the big emotional beats.
Man, this is going to be rough. Voluntarily watching a show I know I already don't like, just to push past the weak bits(Someone told me it really gets good around episode 10, but that's a lot of bad episodes to sit through...)

The season does get better and better as it goes on, but the first 10 episodes are far from torture. (In my opinion, of course.) Definitely give it more than the first episode - I didn't love the first hour, either. But all of the things I didn't like about it (the "biker gang", the cartoonishly mean sheriff, the occasionally awkward jokes) really don't represent what the show becomes.

But that's just me. And I'm not you.
I have a question.

What is the show about?
oh wow, someone other than me likes Tales Of The Gold Monkey!! and props to the peoples who are bringing American Gothic out on DVD. Who says there's no good tv at the moment? There's too much good tv, damnit!! Especially all those sweet Moonlighting, West Wing etc. box sets (drool). I'm an Aussie and ashamed to admit I watch waay too much American telly: VM, Deadwood, Six Feet Under, The Inside, Manimal...
Joss, wonderful to see you posting here! I'm so glad that you've discovered the Veronica Mars lurve.

The show captured me from the first episode, and I've been spreading the word ever since.
Wow, a post by the man himself.
Guess Joss was just taking some very well deserved break, between the end of finalizing Serenity, and before Universal starts the heavy Serenity marketing. Not that he ever really take breaks, according to what he said in the OMWF CD booklet. Guess just clearing the head, to be ready for the next projects.

VM is great, definetely one of my favorite current shows. Great acting, fun storytelling, compelling characters. It shares similaties with Buffy, but is unique in it's own way. Is it par with a ME show? Not yet, but their really on the right track. Man, if Joss is praising, that really means they're on the right track.

And Alyson Hannigan wasn't the only ME related actor guesting in season 1. There was also Adam Kauffman, aka Parker Abrams, the guy who slept with Buffy then ditched her. Kauffman's character in VM, instead of being someone who seemed nice and was actually a jackass, he was a guy who appeared to be a jackass, but was actually a good guy .

From what I've read about Charisma Carpenter character in one of those Comicon Reports,
My friend and I just spent our entire ride to work discussing Veronica Mars. I had my own Marsathon over the past week, and then gave him all the episodes so he could get hooked too. We are now total addicts.

Knowing that the series is endorsed by the one and only Joss makes me one extremely happy geek.
Channel Seven will probably get Veronica Mars and then shelve it to a late night timeslot, ala BtVS and Angel.

I assume Seven will get it, because I believe it's a Twentieth Century FOX Production and if so, Seven has a contract with the company to air their new projects.
Oh my gosh! Yes, I too love Veronica Mars! I can't see it existing without Buffy before it though.
Sorry, nixygirl- I have edited my comment. I forgot that not everyone gets to see the show at the same time and the same place or at all.
Ahhh Damn it!! Thanks alot Joss!!! Now I have to go out an buy another TV seris on DVD 'Sigh' Along with Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Wonderfalls, Dead Like Me and Alias it's getting awfully crowded on my shelf.... Lol :p, Seriously though thanks for the heads up Joss I'll have to wait till it heads down here to Aussieland to catch it. Now I'm looking forward to it.
Hmmm...very interesting. Perhaps the "(insert-show-you’ve-been-meaning-to-get-caught-up-with-here) A THON" is the best way to view VM. I watched from the first episode when it was originally broadcast and liked it, just not in a "can't wait for the next episode' kind of way. I do really like the character of Veronica and I think Kristen Bell very impressive and absolutely owns the character and I also like how everyone is screwed up in their own individual ways. I'm sure it's smarter and better written and acted that all the other shows out there that I don't actually watch, but for some reason I'm not giddy about it and I'm not quite sure why. I did breathe a sigh of relief when it was given a second season, but to my great surprise, Battlestar Galactica has been the one I have to watch thanks to Simon (Are your ears burning? There's talk of you in The Library)

[ edited by bloodflowers on 2005-08-12 17:55 ]
I'm resisting the urge to tease some of you who refused to watch it when I told you to. Its even better watching marathon form back to back :) but you still should've noticed how good it was in watching any three eps a week apart. Silly people :) Resists making joke using words like 'kiss-@$$ery' and 'pile-on'.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-08-12 17:52 ]
Thomas, Veronica Mars, is actually produced by Warner Bros.
Deadwood is better

I hear that, Willowy. That beating in that last episode still gives me chills.

Again, Veronica Mars is not Buffy. The storylines run along similar themes. A 17 year old girl's life is altered by a series of tragic events including the murder of her best friend. With her family and social life turned upside down, she takes upon herself to find the truth.

Like BtVS, this is a character driven show. Events in each episode reveals a new light on the various characters, even in episodes that seem to be "stand alones". This show is always moving forward and evolving which is why people compare it to Buffy.
Gossi, VM is about a high school girl who, along with everyone else in the immediate vicinity, has gone through a series of huge traumas that have turned her whole life upside down before the series starts. In S1 she is trying to restart her life under her new circumstances, to find out what really happened in the prior year and to deal with it. As she unpeels the onion trying to get to the truth, things get more and more complicated and grayer. She gets involved with other characters’ searches and traumas as they overlap with hers or when others hire her/ask her to help them investigate various things affecting their lives. Sometimes these forays into other people's problems have an impact on her own investigations, sometimes not, but they often give her another piece in the humanity and life puzzle.

You're late--passengers on the VM train have been waiting for you for months. But, as someone said upthread, you've been busy with movies and other minor hobbies, so it's excusable. Still don't think VM measures up to BUFFY or ANGEL at their best, but damn--the plotting on VM is so tight, you could bounce a quarter off it. Feel free to nag Rob Thomas with plot suggestions until he weeps like a girl and lets you write and direct an episode.
I have a question.

What is the show about?

A good synopsis can be found on the official site.

ETA: The VM season finale was the first season finale since the "Angel" series finale to make me yell "OH MY GOD!!!" several times - and I don't do that sort of thing. There were several "I can't believe that just happened" moments in the show, as well as the tendency to ride an emotional rollercoaster while watching.

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2005-08-12 18:08 ]
I feel so much better about my addiction to Veronica Mars now. (I was worried I was getting a bit too obsessed with this show...) I started watching VM at the beginning of June when UPN began reairing episodes starting from the premiere. I think the show hooked me in the X-mas episode with the line (in the opening scene I think) about homemade Christmas ornaments and being an only child. It just really made me laugh, which TV shows have rarely made me do since ANGEL got the axe. And now week after week it's getting harder and harder to wait for the next episode. I don't know if all UPN affiliates do it, but my UPN station reairs the episodes on Sunday nights at 7 and I find myself watching the reruns of the reruns.

I even rented SPARTAN last night just because Kristen Bell was in it.
Nice to see the VM love from Joss! Can't believe such a hugely long whole Joss thread appeared on this site in the short time I've been away from it!
VM was one of two shows that got me hooked last year. It's definitely not quite up to ME standards for me yet, and there were quite a few eps I missed (I might have to fill those in via Netflix, since I don't see myself plunking down $$ for a set), but it was really engaging, I loved Kristin Bell, and by the end had me totally hooked to see the ends of the season-long mysteries. The last two episodes I thought were fabulous. Also, unlike some other new shows (*cough* Lost *cough), it actually wrapped up a major story arc and mystery while still leaving room for more.

I'm hoping it'll grow into a better show this next season as it finds its legs. Right now, it occasionally falls into predictable cliches and gets a wee bit soap-opera-y. But, as Joss pointed out, it's definitely not afraid of the pain! Also, has one of the best father-daughter relationships on television. And quite a bit of actually funny snarky humor.

No, it's not up to the level of Deadwood or the Wire, or Joss shows (by my standards at least), but it was the best non-cable show I saw last year. I infinitely preferred it to Lost, which I liked somewhat but got really frustrated with.

Here's to its non-cancellage!
Nice to see I share similar tastes with the man himself. I fell in love with Veronica Mars and can't wait for season two.

HOWEVER - BEWARE -- Haven't read through this entire thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned but Season two time slot is changed. I believe it's up against Lost. Which really and truly, well, sucks. I hope this doesn't prove to be another case of a truly excellent, nay brilliant, show doomed to be cut down before it's prime due to bad programming decisions(hmmm, why does that sound familiar?)
For those of you on the fence or who have watched some of the show and lost interest, I wasn't that impressed with it in the beginning. I thought it got really strong it's last bunch of episodes. It's not as good as a Whedon show but it does seem to have potential to be up there with a Whedon show.
We finally got it up here in Canada, as Drifter said, but I wasn't aware that they have been messing with the order. I'm enjoying it but not over the top with it so maybe a Marsathon in the right order is the best way to go.
Still, its not on Whedon level.
Wow, my two bestest favoritest worlds collide! Is that one of the signs of the apocalypse? Or something? *g* I've been a crazy fan of VM since the first episode. Was my usual skeptic at first of course. A young girl detective? Hasn't Disney done this before? Over and over? And then of course, fell in love with the writing, Kristen Bell, Mr. Keith-"who's your daddy"-Mars, "King of Pain" Logan,... well, all the characters really (who can resist Mac, Weevil or Wallace?)...the "oh-so-Buffy" angst and what have to be some of the most unbelievable "oh my Goood" moments on TV (I don't think I unclenched my teeth at any time during the last 5 episodes!)... And of the course: The. Best. Finale. Ever. This. Season.
I've already converted three of my friends to the brilliance that is VM. I am so glad they are back for a second season!

[ edited by Alanna_Wolff on 2005-08-12 20:31 ]
Totally agree! Been hooking into the reruns, the show is AWESOME. I'd love to see Kristen Bell relay some snappy joss dialogue sometime. Joss! Beg Rob Thomas to let you write an episode!
Just to back up what some others have said, if you've only seen the pilot, definitely give the show another chance. I watched the pilot because it got rave reviews, and thought it was okay, but nowhere near as great as say, the Lost pilot. Then I watched while Lost treaded water and got more and more ridiculous, as Veronica pretty much got better and better with each episode. By the end of the season my Buffy watching friends had agreed that VM season 1 had pretty much matched Buffy season 2, and that's saying something.
I'll start watching if it comes to the UK
Is season one on DVD? I'll admit the show never really appealed to me, but its hard to ignore Joss, so I'll give it another chance if I can rent it from Netflix.
I agree with bonzob completely - I thought Lost started off strong and gradually lost me with totally cliched, predictable episodes and more contrived plots that seemed to lead nowhere. VM, meanwhile, started off slow and was a show I just occasionally caught when I was around – I missed a lot of the episodes early in the season (and a few later on as well). But by the end – especially the last 5 or so episodes – VM really achieved glimmers of brilliance. I'm hoping that the first season was just a warm-up and that now Rob Thomas is really poised to take off.

Killinj - it's not out on DVD yet, but it's supposed to come out sometime in October, I believe. Really, though, you need to have patience through some of the early episodes. They're not bad, just don't have the same greatness (IMO, at least) that the show achieved near the end. Also, I was never wild about the "new Buffy" comparisons. It's not Buffy, and people shouldn't expect it to be. I didn't really see any similarities other than a young, strong, witty female in the lead (and it's sad that that's so rare). It didn't totally capture my heart the way Buffy did, and I won't be rewatching all the eps many times the way I did with Buffy, but it is excellent in its own way.

[ edited by acp on 2005-08-12 19:00 ]
I even rented SPARTAN last night just because Kristen Bell was in it.

So did I because Kristen Bell is that good. (Hated the movie BTW). I'm very happy to see such an influential figure give VM his approval; it's a great show that will probably need a relatively significant increase in viewership if it's going to survive. I was afraid that people's comparing it to Buffy would have a backlash effect, as I think it did initially. Now I'm hoping that with the mighty power of the loyal citizens of Jossdom, it might stand a chance.
allaboutspike, us VM fans are hoping that it'll stand a better chance against LOST than it did against the Amazing Race, House and Scrubs last year.
The DVD set will be out on October 11th. Unfortunate, since the second season premieres on September 28th. :-(

[ edited by Anne13 on 2005-08-12 18:59 ]

[ edited by Anne13 on 2005-08-12 19:00 ]
Yeah, me too Apocalypse. I feel really left out, and because I don't have Sky I'll probably not be able to see it for years. I've only just been able to start watching Lost, and with most of my favourite shows I have to rely on DVDs to try and keep up with them.

But from what I've heard, I am really looking forward to Veronica Mars. I understand how it can have some similarities to Buffy, and be of the same quality, but we all know that there's nothing quite like Buffy, Angel or Firefly.
Season 1 is scheduled to be released in late October or early November, though Rob Thomas has commented that getting it out that early, as the network watns, means it will not have as much extras on it as he would like. There may therefore be a second release with all the bells and whistles after the new year.
As allaboutspike pointed out, season two of VM will be airing opposite of 'Lost' on Wednesday night. This was UPN's idea, not Rob Thomas'. VM will follow a lead in from whatever reality show UPN has in that slot. IMO, this is a mistake. I feel VM was growing an audience in the Tuesday's slot. Once again.....

killinj the VM season one DVD (region 1) is due to release on October 11, 2005.
I´m ready to watch Veronica Mars now!
Joss gave me the impulse.
So did I because Kristen Bell is that good. (Hated the movie BTW).

Really? I liked it quite a bit. Although, her role, while hugely significant to the plot, was very very small. So that was disappointing.

The DVD set will be out on October 11th. Unfortunate, since the second season premieres on September 28th. :-(

Yay. The premiere is actually on my birthday. That week is just getting better and better (Serenity on Friday, Firefly marathon on Sci-Fi).
Razor I dont have Sky either, but im sure Channel 4 or the BBC will pick it up at some point. And I also saw Lost for the first time on Wednesday. I thought it was rather good actually!

I know this is probably just being a bit lazy on my part, but could somebody explain the Veronica Mars plot to me? (without spoiling me)
Thanks, Joss. I was already a VM devotee, but reading your post, and the responses to it, I feel my love for the show is wholly validated.

I do agree with Simon, though... would love to know your opinion of the new Doctor Who if you've seen it. Especially with Tony set to appear next year as an evil Headmaster. Wait up... Headmaster. Head... Master... He's the Master!!! ;)
I like cheese...and Veronica Mars too.
Apocalypse, see some of the other posts above (and the synopsis Nebula1400 links to). The super-quick version is: Veronica is a teenager in the wealthy California town of Neptune. Prior to the start of the series, her best friend, Lily Kane, was murdered. Her father, who was the town sheriff, suggested Lily's father (a wealthy software magnate) was the murderer. Right before the murder, Lily's brother broke up with Veronica. Another man confessed, her father lost his job, Veronica got drugged and raped at a party, most of her friends turned on her, and her mother left, without saying where she was going. Again, this is all prior to the series beginning.

When the show picks up, Veronica is an amateur sleuth who helps her father in his private-detective business. There are a lot of class issues at the high school, between the "0-9ers" – the wealthy clique – and the kids (like Veronica) without money. She develops a close friendship with a boy named Wallace, a growing antagonism with Logan, Lily's old boyfriend, and various relationships with other kids. VM's version of the "Monster of the week" plots on BtVS is whatever mystery/case Veronica happens to be solving that week. But the real interest is in the season long mysteries: who killed Lily Kane, who drugged and raped Veronica at the party she attended, what happened to Lily's mother, and why Duncan broke up with her.
There's also a lot of teenage angst, and quickly changing relationships/growth for various characters, including Veronica, Logan, Weevil, Duncan, and Wallace. And, of course, the great relationship between Veronica and her dad.

Whew! Longer than I mean that to be. But do, also, check out the summary that Nebula1400 links to.
I hope we don't have to wait too long in the UK for it. If Joss says its good then it must be! Anyone here in shock that Joss posted? I am lol! *crosses fingers and chants "spike movie"* Anyway... bring on Veronica Mars!
Damn, excellent job, acp. You should be a television commentator.
Unfortunately, we don't receive Veronica Mars up here in the wilds of Oregon's Rogue Valley. I've pre-ordered it from Amazon, but have to wait until October. Gaaaah!
I am so very amused and touched by the existence of this thread :).

Must add Veronica to my TBW list...
I love VM, it's my favorite new show. After Angel went off the air I assumed I would only be watching Home & Garden but instead found three new shows I love/like: VM, House and Lost.

The Veronica/Logan relationship reminds me very much of the Spuffy.
Joss, pain you want? Have you seen Six Feet Under? It's wrapping up its fifth and final season in a couple weeks. Season 4 will be out on DVD later this month.

When Vernoica Mars finally started airing in Canada at the beginning of this summer, I tried to get into it. Caught the first three or four episodes. Then I missed taping the next episode and found I didn't really care. I'll give it another go on DVD, where almost any iffy show plays better.
w00t Joss luvs VM. Shouldn't be surprised.

Thanks for the spiffy Angela and Buffy dvds too!
Hm, gonna have to make room on the dvd shelf for VM, Lost, and Deadwood...

[ edited by disa on 2005-08-12 21:25 ]
Okay. The only thing on our broadcast watch list is Battlestar Galactica. Since Joss likes it, we will have to add VM to the watch list. When I started reading this thread, I asked my sweetie to pick up VM S1 along with another copy of Firefly (we loaned out our copy and it hasn't come back yet...). I'm guessing I need to call her back and say that VM S1 isn't out until October :-(

[ edited by dcubed on 2005-08-12 21:31 ]
VampiresSuckLOLOLGetIt... so were you one of the cheerleaders...or the guy driving the car?? ;)

and Madhatter...go get Spaced (UK tv show) now! Don't ask questions, don't think about it twice...Go Get it!
You Will Love It!!!
Been there...I was on board when they were close to canceling it...

Unbelievable! The one day I forget to check the boards and I almost miss the best Whedonesque post ever. Thanks Joss!

I absolutely love, love, love Veronica Mars. It hooked me from the very beginning. When Veronica reveals that she was raped in the premiere, I knew this show was more than just a hip Nancy Drew with witty dialogue. Joss is definitely right about the pain. Good shows (Lost for example) will entertain and intrigue you. Great shows like VM and Buffy will make your heart ache. For those of you who haven't seen all the episodes of this fantastic show, I urge you to do whatever is necessary to watch them before the premiere of the second season. The last two episodes will leave you an emotional basket case.
acp, thankyou for taking the time to give me a summary. It's very much appreciated

And Kris, yes, Six Feet Under and pain go together like Nate and Brenda fall apart. And I just have one thing to say:

"Numb arm, Numb...arm, narm, narm!"
LOL Apocalypse! Got your t-shirt, yet?
There's a T-Shirt! Oh God I want one! Where can I find it?!?!
Heh, it's really cute. Over on TWoP, it's in the NoN (Now or Never) section. There's just a gravestone with the word NARM on it! Hee heeeee!
Oh. My. Dear. God. I want it so much! I'm just going to have to wait until SFU Season Five starts airing in the UK before people will understand it. Thank God for good friends in California! Sending me possibly the best three episodes of SFU ever!

"What is this? A Quaker thing? You f*** someones husband to death and you bring them a quiche!" Fandabidosey!
HAHA! I got to post last on a Joss post.
No you didn't.

Oh yes I did!
that would be me :P

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2005-08-19 17:39 ]
(This is a non-compete post)

I just watched a wickedly good show called Veronica Mars! Kidding . . . I've watched it on and off, mostly off, really, since it (finally) showed up in Canada this spring. I really couldn't get into the rich community setting. At all. No 90210 for me, thank you. Don't give a s**t.

Today (Sunday 21st) I finally caught up to it again, turns out it's repeat of ep 16: Betty and Veronica. Was that ever good. Script (xxxx Ruggeiro), superb. Acting, top notch. But the directing (Michael Fields) was sensitive and imaginative. Well done! The story was really well done, the drama touching and shocking. Humour? Yup. I especially loved it when Veronica gave Wallace a slap on the butt as he hit the basketball court. You don't see such normal behaviour like that very often: a teenage girl being playful in a totally unsexual way. I'm amazed the net nannies allowed that to pass.

Anyway, I think I'm beginning to see what Joss sees in this show. I've got a lot of catching up to do. Box set can't get here soon enough.
I read this when it was first posted but I was not a memember so I couldn't reply with my own resonding, *squee*

This made my day, I love Veronica Mars as I have never loved a non-Whedon show before. It eats my brain. Two more days! And four more until I go see Serenity. This really is the best week ever :)

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