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August 20 2005

Ripper: Cracker with Ghosts. Journalist Matt McGovern concludes his discussion on why he wants to see a 'Ripper' series, this time delving into the history of the show, and what he'd like to see in it. WARNING: Geocities site with Low Bandwidth.

Is there some sort of link I can use to get rid of the low bandwidth?

Again, I enjoyed this article a lot, although he doesn't really go into much depth about his own ideas, it's more about the history of the show. As a frenzied Faith supporter, im looking forward to seeing his article on her.

Ripper has been a continuing heartbreak for me; I've been looking forward to it ever since they first said they were going to do it. I think it would be a great show.

For those of you who haven't seen Cracker, it's on Netflix and it's absolutely brilliant. Difficult to watch sometimes (but so are Joss' shows), but beautifully written, with vivid and memorable characters. Check it out, and then imagine what 'Cracker with ghosts' could be...
Check it out, and then imagine what 'Cracker with ghosts' could be...

It might turn out to be the best thing Joss ever does. And I'm not saying that lightly.
Apocalypse, you could use this cached link.

I always expected to see Ben's murder given more attention later on in Buffy. It would be very satisfying to have a bit more resolution of that topic on Ripper.
Yea; it's the kind of show that would run really well made in England. I do hope they do it.
I would agree with all that he says except that I would rather see Doug Petrie or David Fury or Ben Edlund or.. well, actually anyone.... rather than Marti Noxon. Sorry but Marti Noxon's later BtVS eps weren't to my liking much - "Wrecked" anyone?
Thanks galvatron. Have changed the link
I always expected to see Ben's murder given more attention later on in Buffy. It would be very satisfying to have a bit more resolution of that topic on Ripper.


Funny you should mention that.

David Fury posted this little tidbit regarding 'Lies My Parents Told Me' at the Bronze Beta back in March 2003.

The rumors are true. (Not about Goddard and Michelle. ABout Giles and Ben.) It was cut mainly because the first cut of the show was TWELVE MINUTES LONG! But, also because some people didn't think anyone would be interested in Giles confessing to killing Ben. Curious what you guys think.

And, by the way, some great stuff got cut out of the ep. Funny, funny Goddard stuff. Ah, if only there was a director's cut.

Two words about Ripper the series: hell yeh!

some people didn't think anyone would be interested in Giles confessing to killing Ben.



'Some people' who should be flogged.

Sigh.
I already love "Lies My Parents Told Me". The restoration of the deleted Giles-confesses-to-killing-Ben material would be awesome. Simon, you're a fount of fascinating information. I'll be thinking about this all day.
I'm personally satisfied that no-one else knows about Giles killing Ben. I think it worked perfectly as a really dark moment to the audience which adds further depth to Giles but I just didn't feel like it had to be brought up again. What exactly would happen, either they would all be disgusted at Giles or although it was morally questionable, it had to be done, and then they would move on.

Saying that, for all I know it was brilliantly written and interesting, and maybe it is a loss that we didn't get to see it. But for me it's not a big thing. There are other issues, such as Xander lying about Willow's message to Buffy in "Becoming", which were brought up unexpectedly, but weren't even dealt with. It was nice, but it was hardly a resolution. I don't see how they could have resolved the Ben issue within an already dense episode, although I do think it would have been relevant to the episode.

Although I think this would have been fantastic to see as a special feature on the DVDs. Among the best special features, I think, are audio commentaries and deleted scenes.

We had some really fantastic audio commentaries on Buffy and Angel, but for the earlier seasons they hadn't got into the swing of things so there were only a small number, compared to maybe seven per season in the later seasons. It would be great to have five more for season one of Buffy or Angel.

Deleted scenes, however, were sorely lacking. Firefly did it well, there were four or five deleted scenes, and they were pretty fantastic, the one from "Serenity" with Zoe explaining the Battle of Serenity to Simon was amazing, and deserved to be in the final episode. The one from "Our Mrs Reynolds" further deepens Mal's character and River's comments also provide more clues to who Saffron really is.

Unfortunately we have very few deleted scenes from Buffy and Angel, I think some of the dancing from "Waiting in the Wings" and the Cordy sitcom from "Birthday" are all we have, which is a shame because I'm sure there were many great scenes which had to be cut for time which could have seen new life on DVD.

[ edited by Razor on 2005-08-20 16:32 ]
They must be crazy people if they didn't want to see that scene. I think that was one of the problems I had with S7, was that none of the Scoobies were called on their either bad or ambigous actions. *shakes head*
They must be crazy people if they didn't want to see that scene. I think that was one of the problems I had with S7, was that none of the Scoobies were called on their either bad or ambigous actions. *shakes head*


Come on! The scoobies had to face their darker self and paid high price in S7.

Remember Anya, who "had to" sacrifice her best friend Halfrek in order to return to the life she prefers (that of a mortal woman)?

Remember Alex, who had to face again (many times) his breaking of his relationship with Anya?

Remember how Buffy was casted out by the entire team (Spike excepted) for having been to "general-in-chief"?

Remember Willow, who clearly self-inflicted herself many torments in S7 for what she had done to Warren?

I can't say scoobies weren't faced the consequences of their preceding actions in S7...
Thanks for that excerpt, Simon. Somehow I had missed that. It's hard to believe anyone at Mutant Enemy would underestimate the desire for continuity among hardcore fans.
Come on! The scoobies had to face their darker self and paid high price in S7.

Remember Anya, who "had to" sacrifice her best friend Halfrek in order to return to the life she prefers (that of a mortal woman)?

Remember Alex, who had to face again (many times) his breaking of his relationship with Anya?

Remember how Buffy was casted out by the entire team (Spike excepted) for having been to "general-in-chief"?

Remember Willow, who clearly self-inflicted herself many torments in S7 for what she had done to Warren?

I can't say scoobies weren't faced the consequences of their preceding actions in S7...
Le Comité | August 20, 17:01 CET


Alex? I take it you mean Xander. He was only ever called that once in Tabula Rasa by Dawn.

I also take it we watched different shows. No problem, you have your take on it, I have mine.

And poor Anya was never a Scoobie. She was still too much of a demon to ever be counted as a Scoobie by them. She did pay the price for her actions, I wasn't talking about her.

Xander was not fully brought to action for how he treated Anya. Although I was glad to see that out of all of them he was the only Scoobie to show any real maturity and growth. I've always loved Xander, although NB did such a good job in S6 I did start to hate him. S7 brought me back though.

Willow didn't torture herself over killing Warren (not to mention killing Rack, threatening to kill Dawn, trying to kill Xander and destroy the world). Nope, she felt bad for moving on from Tara and on to Kennedy. No remorse for killing.

Buffy, I used to really like her but from mid S6 onwards I just can't summon up the energy to care.


Like I say just my opinion. YMMV.
Xander was
the only Scoobie to show any real maturity and growth


Huh? And Willow showed no remorse for killing? How 'bout her agonizing over whether the gang would accept her after what she had done? I agree that the consequences of various actions could have seen more screen time in S7, which is also one of my issues with that season, but they were there. And I'm not sure what you mean about Buffy. She continued to grow and face up to responsibility in the final season, and finally found a way to not be carrying the entire weight of slayerdom on her shoulders. You were unmoved by that? Guess we really were watching different shows.
Lynnie, I've watched a few episodes of BtVS while on holiday in France. (And bought a few mags. Obsessed? Moi?) Xander is called "Alex" there both in the dubbing and the magazines. And I'm guessing "Le Comité" is a name of French origin....
In 'Restless' when Giles and Anya talk to Xander in french, they're actually using the french dub of the show. If you go through and check the other languages, you'll notice it's different for a few of them.

If you own the dvds it can be alot of fun to try the other languages out.

Le Comite, I'm curious if your name is the french version of the 'Senior Partners'
Remember Anya, who "had to" sacrifice her best friend Halfrek in order to return to the life she prefers (that of a mortal woman)?

I wouldn't exactly say Anya selfishly chose to sacrifice Halfrek in order to restore her own humanity. Anya felt incredibly guilty about the deaths caused by a wish she granted, so she asked D'Hoffryn to reverse the wish, and the price was supposed to be her life. So Anya was selflessly offering her life to reverse the wish.

D'Hoffryn, however, decided to hurt her even more by reversing the wish but by using Halfrek's life in order to do so. Anya was completely unaware that he was going to kll Halfrek. She didn't chose to sacrifice Halfrek at all.

I'm assuming that the French version of the episode must have lost something in translation.

And poor Anya was never a Scoobie. She was still too much of a demon to ever be counted as a Scoobie by them. She did pay the price for her actions, I wasn't talking about her.

I disagree. To begin with Anya was considered a menace by Willow, but eventually they did accept her as a friend, due to her desire to do good, adjust to human life and her relationship with Xander. She sorted out her issues with Willow in "Triangle" and by "The Gift" it is clear that she has come a long way in becoming human and risks her own life to save the world. Willow considers her a close enough friend for her to be involved in the plan to resurrect Buffy along with Xander and Tara.

Whenever Anya returns as a vengenace demon in "Entropy", Buffy, Willow, Tara and Dawn are all there to offer their sympathy and friendship to her. Unfortunately because she's so upset and angry she doesn't respond to this, and it's true that she drifts from the group, but continues to help them several times despite her occupation.

Anya was definitely an important member of the Scooby Gang in seasons four to six, and despite her brief second spell as a vengeance demon, does become a member again. I do feel she was accepted by all of them, and her opinion is clearly considered in "Empty Places" for example.
What Razor said, better than I would have said it.

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