Whedonesque : Comments on 7596 : An update on the Spike TV movie.

Ummmm I think this links to itself. Now this maybe a deconstructionalist statement that I am too slow to get or....

It's linked to itself for a reason. I'll put the reason up in a minute.

Reason now up.

[ edited by Simon on 2005-08-20 19:30 ]

Simon | August 20, 18:20 CET

:D That sounds great. Very exciting stuff.

non sequitur | August 20, 18:33 CET

Hmm, sounds interesting.

SerenityScape | August 20, 18:34 CET

* woot*

this is great news

of course until the ink is dry nothing is certain but wow! it's good news

thanks Simon!

debw | August 20, 18:38 CET

I love Out of Gas, but do not really know much more of his stuff.

Does anyone have any idea what his take on Spike is? He never wrote for him did he?

Maybe that is on purpose, to get a fresh perspective, but it really makes me very nervous.

newcj | August 20, 18:44 CET

I would imagine he wrote for Spike in 'Darla'.

Simon | August 20, 18:47 CET

Allyson, thanks for this tidbit. Hopefully, this will lead to something.

Heh, heh. I like his 13 hours comment. There's no doubt that Tim could take this project on and make it "shiny". Guess time will tell, lets cross our fingers on this one.

Madhatter | August 20, 19:05 CET

Hmmm, Darla. Thanks Simon. Not to be picky but Spike 's scenes in there were the same as in Fool for Love, except for the Gypsy caravan scene in which his participation was minimal. Maybe TM was the one who wrote those scenes or maybe Doug Petrie did or maybe wrote them together, but I'm not sure I would really count that as writing for Spike.

That said, I am probably just being a worry-wart. I've been disappointed so many times over the years with other characters from other times and places, long before Joss. I'm sure Joss, on the other hand, would keep things going in whatever direction he has in mind for Spike. On the other hand, I keep finding myself remembering the comment TM made about not being interested in carrying water on someone else's show.

I never had a problem with that comment and I can quite understand and sympathize with someone wanting to produce their own vision rather than someone else's. I can also understand someone not wanting to go backwards in his career. I think that is why I find myself nervous about this. Will it be a lark between his own projects, taking someone else's characters again and doing something interesting in limited collaboration with the creator? I could see that and be excited by it. Will it be something more like Joss handing over the character and staying out of it? Doesn't sound like Joss, but I'm just trying to work it through.

Anyway, these are just random thoughts. I think I'm kind of in shock.

I like the TM quote. It is funny.

[ edited by newcj on 2005-08-20 20:21 ]

newcj | August 20, 19:20 CET

Tim Minear? I think Tim's fantastically talented and an excellent writer, but he's not exactly the first writer I would have thought of to do a Spike TV movie. Spike's presence in "Darla" was really minimal, I thought. The reverse side of the FFL China scene and him wandering out of a gypsy's tent burping, wasn't it?

Huh. That's kind of interesting. Still, this is the most concrete information we've heard of thus far about this Spike TV movie. And like I said, Tim is a very talented writer.

Wait.."blonde" vampire? Darla? ;)

teenes | August 20, 19:22 CET

It was only the other day

The other day when exactly? 5 months ago? 1 week ago? :(

Christopher | August 20, 19:26 CET

Tim wrote Are You Now or Have You Ever Been?

That's all anyone needs to know.

Grounded | August 20, 19:34 CET

I think the man who brought us Jay on Wonderfalls could give us a fantastic Spike.

ramses 2 | August 20, 19:36 CET

Yesterday I believe. Tim Minear made Angel for me. This is the right guy.

Simon | August 20, 19:43 CET

Now I am excited about a Spike movie. Before hearing this, not so much.

Tim will do this justice.

TamaraC | August 20, 19:49 CET

Tim Minear may have not done much with Spike, but he's written enough other great shows that I have full confidence that he will do a great job with the Spike tv movie. Plus the fact that he hasn't gotten much of a chance to write for the character, could also mean that he'll be bringing something new and interesting to the character.

Plus it's just incredibly exciting that the Spike tv movie might actually happen!!! :)

Matt_Fabb | August 20, 19:49 CET

God I hope we do get a Spike movie, there are so many questions left over from Buffy and Angel, and Spike has his own story to tell too.

Joss rules! | August 20, 19:52 CET

I'm thrilled TM will be doing the Spike movie. It's true Tim has very little experience writing the Spike character but I have no doubt Joss will be in charge of the basic storyline and will tweak the script as necessary.

Reddygirl | August 20, 19:59 CET

Thrilled with the idea of TM doing a Spike movie. I'm very impressed with his talents and one of my favorite FF episodes is OOG. And if Joss asked him to be the one to do this then who are we to second guess his judgement?!

Firefly Flanatic | August 20, 20:10 CET

Yes! I got my Spike comic book today, in time for me to have James to sign it in Toronto, and now I come online to my favorite site to find out things are looking up on the Spike movie front! *happy dance*

killinj | August 20, 20:11 CET

Hey, I'd be happy with a 13 episode season straight to DVD. Seems it would be right up Tim's alley. I wonder if they thought about that?

spikeangellover | August 20, 20:19 CET

Uh... I'm nervous.
Finally, some official news, and not just another rumor from the WB.

[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2005-08-20 21:32 ]

Angel TheVampire | August 20, 20:28 CET

Interesting, I have to think a Spike TV movie would have to be pre-chip, no? I mean, otherwise, it'd have to pick up where Not Fade Away left off, or sometime down the road from that, and that would mean we would have to get some explanation of what happened outside the Hyperion. And I'd like that explanation to be more than just a few expository lines of dialogue.

So, assuming this does get made (an assumption of breathtaking proportions)), I'm guessing Spike and Dru make their way to Prague...Okay I'm for that!

Chris inVirginia | August 20, 20:29 CET

Oh I'm not second-guessing, it just took me by surprise. With all the names of potential writers bandied about for a Spike TV movie, Tim Minear wasn't one of the ones I had thought of, since he hasn't written much Spike before. I do think he will do a great job and I doubt Joss would let this one go sight unseen either. This is just..neat =).

teenes | August 20, 20:31 CET

Tim Minear was executive producer for seasons 4 and 5 of Angel. No writing credits specifically for season 5 episodes, but as executive producer, it was basically his show, which would include a lot of breaking, editing, and polishing. I would say that's a "good enough" Spike credit.

MissKittysMom | August 20, 20:32 CET

I think Tim was always the go to guy for something like this. I believe it was Tim who was doing the Faith on a motorcycle Buffy spinoff in which Spike was going to appear.

IMMORTAL | August 20, 20:35 CET

There's still umpteen reasons why this project might not come to fruition. After Firefly and Angel got cancelled, I've learnt not to get my hopes up. But this is encouraging news. I miss the Buffyverse.

Simon | August 20, 20:38 CET

Whoa, lets not get ahead of ourselves here. This is just a brief post from Tim, lets not read too much into it. Yes, it's encouraging news, but much needs to happen before it takes form.

Edited to add: Simon, you read my mind. Starting to wonder if you're psychic which would be a handy talent for a MOD :)

[ edited by Madhatter on 2005-08-20 21:56 ]

Madhatter | August 20, 20:41 CET

If Tim wrote it I might watch it. He's probably the only way I would watch it.

charisma | August 20, 20:44 CET

Not getting ahead of myself here but this is *very* encouraging news.

Chris inVirginia Actually no it wouldn't have to be pre-chip ( and therefore pre-soul) at all. From what JM has said about the matter I get the impression that he would not be interested in coming back to the character if all they intended to do was regress him. He's very much looking forward in direction, not back.

Tim wrote Are You Now or Have You Ever Been?

That's all anyone needs to know.
Grounded | August 20, 20:34 CET

Very much agreed. :0)

If Tim wrote it I might watch it. He's probably the only way I would watch it.
charisma | August 20, 21:44 CET

Just curious, but why would you watch a movie where the lead is a character you hate, played by an actor you dislike, just because you like the writer. I mean that's just above and beyond the call of duty. Best off if you didn't watch it I would have thought. But hey, it's your dime. *shrugs*

lynnie | August 20, 20:49 CET

GEOS has a list of Tim Minnear's credits here.

I think this is great news on many fronts. One of the main ones is that there isn't time enough in the day for Joss to do all the things I'd like to see. Tim Minnear would be my first choice to head up some of these projects but I hope other Mutant Enemy writers/directors/actors get a chance to do likewise.

Now how about that Illyria movie ?

technovamp | August 20, 20:53 CET

Okay, charisma, but I'm more than a little concerned about the form it would take.

Actually, I found Are You Now or Have You Ever Been? merely okay...the trite McCarthy theme has been played a million times, going back over 50 years with The Crucible...sure, it was freshened in AYNOHYEB, but I was considerably less than thrilled by the Angel folks trotting that old horse around the track again...but I appear to be in the minority.

Chris inVirginia | August 20, 20:55 CET

Good for Tim. Still, Spike works better as the hero's foil than the hero. He (or more specifically, the writers) dragged down Buffy's final two seasons, while he was in perfect form in Angel: Season 5. So if they're going forward with this, great! -- more Whedonverse! -- just make sure to give him someone to insult from time to time.

And make sure Angel gets out of that alley.

The Dark Shape | August 20, 20:56 CET

My assumption is the movie would definitely be post-NFA. Imo, that's what most fans are interested in, finding out what happened to Spike after the big fight, not delving more into his evil past.

Reddygirl | August 20, 20:57 CET

ChrisinVA, I also don't think it would have to be pre-chip (or should be.) As I remember it, Joss just wanted to keep certain post-NFA stuff for himself, but I could see this as being some of it. Also, since what happened in the alley would be just as important to Spike as any of the other people/creatures there, why would it be more likely to be just a few expository lines of dialogue in a movie centered around him than it would be for a movie made about anyone else in the alley? I'm not saying how much about the alley I would expect in a movie made about any of them, I just don't understand why it would less likely to be there just because the subject is Spike.

newcj | August 20, 21:01 CET

newcj, I think to do justice to that final, epic, cataclysmic episode of Angel, you'd have to have everybody back for the battle scene.

And I guess I wasn't totally clear...if there were to be an Illyria movie post-NFA, of course she'd have to explain what happened in the alley...or an Angel movie...it doesn't matter which character.

But the final seconds of Angel deserve the full-blown treatment, and I just don't see that happening in a post-NFA movie about just one of the characters, regardless of which one the movie is about.

And, yes, of course I'm interested in what happened right after the final credits rolled, sheesh! I've ruminated for ages upon the various possibilities and permutations...I just think that for the whole thing to be reduced to an incident that happened in the past, unseen, but described, is weak.

Chris inVirginia | August 20, 21:06 CET

I think you could easily cut from the last scene in the alley to characters crawling from the wreckage .Then tell us what happened .

I trust Joss and Tim to make it work ( And James and his fellow actors of course)

This is really promising stuff

debw | August 20, 21:10 CET

Chris, I think it's highly unlikely the whole cast (DB) would be reunited for a movie. In fact, my preference is for more BtVS characters (Giles, Xander, Willow) to make appearances in a Spike movie.

I honestly have no interest in seeing evil Spike in a movie. As someone who was very emotionally invested in his redemption story, I want to see how the character has progressed as a souled vampire.

Reddygirl | August 20, 21:10 CET

That's the beauty newcj, they could with a brief comment or just a look give you either a hint of the others' fates or be more specific. I mean saying a Spike movie would have to show him evil is like saying a Wesley movie would have to show him as a stuffy prig circa Btvs S3, or an Illyria movie showing her as Fred in Pylea. Doesn't make any sort of sense.

Ooh, my preference for support characters would be Xander, Gunn and Illyria. :0)

lynnie | August 20, 21:18 CET

I think it's possible to have the Spike tv movie take place several years post-NFA and give it enough space to leave it a mystery. Just let people know that some how Spike survived and go from there. Hopefully Joss will eventually tell that story of what happened at the end of NFA (maybe in comic book format since I don't see the full cast getting back together any time soon), but the stories of individual characters from Angel can still continue forward.

[ edited by Matt_Fabb on 2005-08-20 22:26 ]

Matt_Fabb | August 20, 21:26 CET

You can find more information about it here.

gossi | August 20, 21:32 CET

The only way I'll watch it is if Faith is in it.

FaithFan | August 20, 21:35 CET

To be honest I'm not getting my hopes up, because they've been dashed so many times before. There's always been speculation about Buffy/Angel projects ever since Buffy ended, and I suspect there will continue to be as long as us fans are still here. I would of course love to see a Spike movie, but I'm not going to get too excited until there is actual official confirmation and the project gets started. I've heard this and similar rumours too many times to just believe it right away.

But if it does go ahead, great. And as I've said before, while any Buffyverse project written and directed by Joss will be perfect, there are also many talented writers who worked with Mutant Enemy who could also do a great job, especially if Joss was overseeing it. Tim Minear would be fantastic.

Gossi- Grr Argh!!!

[ edited by Razor on 2005-08-20 22:36 ]

Razor | August 20, 21:35 CET

There are endless ways to tell the story . Part of the fun is going to be speculating on how they do it. It's got to be post NFA , anything else should be reserved for comic books , Spike has come on such a long and fascinating journey there's no way they'll take him back to evil ( though I'd never say " no" to a couple of juicy flashbacks)

debw | August 20, 21:36 CET

newcj, I think to do justice to that final, epic, cataclysmic episode of Angel, you'd have to have everybody back for the battle scene.

(...)

But the final seconds of Angel deserve the full-blown treatment, and I just don't see that happening in a post-NFA movie about just one of the characters, regardless of which one the movie is about.

I disagree. To really make justice to the final of angel, the only images that have to stay are the last ones of NFA; that's better than any fight scene that could follow.

So mentioning this event in dialogue in clearly enough for me; more than "enough": it is what should be done. Anything else which is a not AtS Season 6 would spoil the final of AtS, would lessen its impact.

Now, to get back to the subject:

Good for Tim. Still, Spike works better as the hero's foil than the hero. He (or more specifically, the writers) dragged down Buffy's final two seasons, while he was in perfect form in Angel: Season 5. So if they're going forward with this, great! -- more Whedonverse! -- just make sure to give him someone to insult from time to time.

That's also my impression. Spike is probably one of (if not "the") my favorite character of the whole buffyverse, but it is interesting mainly because it is a "sidekick". I can't imagine a way to make spike function by itself, except by making a pre-chip movie (which is not my favorite idea). However, I guess I can trust Joss and Tim.

But, anyhow, I will probably never see such a movie (except if I move to the states before it is done!).

[ edited by Le Comité on 2005-08-20 22:41 ]

Le Comité | August 20, 21:41 CET

I'm still liking the idea of 70s or 80s Spike.

I'm sure Faith will be added into the movie now, also. 'cause, you know. Willow, too. And Xander. And and and.

gossi | August 20, 21:42 CET

Well if it happens (and that's still a big if) my only request is wanting to see Drusilla's reaction to Spike having a soul.

Simon | August 20, 21:46 CET

here's hoping this leads to something more...but i'm still weary nonetheless.

buffyfanatic18 | August 20, 21:47 CET

I'm on the red carpet on Monday at the Serenity premiere. We have two core questions we can ask everybody. So...

ETA: I am kiddin' here. There's no way in the hell I'm asking about Spike matters then.

[ edited by gossi on 2005-08-20 22:53 ]

gossi | August 20, 21:50 CET

As with any future Buffyverse news, I will believe it when I see it. This is just as much vaporware as everythign we've heard before.

PMMJ | August 20, 21:51 CET

Yeah, Joss asking Tim to write and direct a Spike movie is total non news.

gossi | August 20, 21:55 CET

Like I said, it's just more hot air until things actually happen. How many times have we heard breaking news about this?

PMMJ | August 20, 22:00 CET

I wasn't saying anything mean... You guys like Spike so you would watch and I like the writer so I would watch.

charisma | August 20, 22:05 CET

Hmm, I remember Aly having said she won't be in a Spike movie. Sad. Maybe she in for her own Willow movie. My preference for support cast would be Faith, Xander, Illyria, Gunn (if survived) would be a great addition.

I like the idea of Tim Minnear as the writer. I think he could pull of a great movie.

Koos | August 20, 22:08 CET

PMMJ we've never had one of the writers actually say that they've been asked (by Joss) to actually write and direct anything before. Just that they've spoken to him and there's been interested expressed. I think this is actually much more exciting than anything we've heard before.

Paul_Rocks | August 20, 22:08 CET

Indeed - this is basically the only actual 'news' on the thing there's been. That said, nowt is signed yet, so it might all fall to bits. Joss wouldn't ask for a laugh, though, and Tim knows a lot about postin' things online.

gossi | August 20, 22:14 CET

I've never bought the Spike has got to be a sidekick thing, but then I did not buy the Spike dragging down Buffy's last two seasons thing either. Buffy and Spike's complicated relationship in S6 was what first made me pay real attention to BTVS. I felt S7 got dragged down by the speeches to the potentials rather than Spike's story.

No matter what they do, they are going to have to have interesting characters other than Spike, just like they did with Buffy or Angel. Even more so maybe since Spike, unlike Angel, is not a sit by himself brooding kind of guy...at least not for long. So I personally don't think the concern about Spike needing somebody to play off from is a problem. Every character needs other characters to play off from, so there will have to be some in a Spike movie.

Oh and Simon, I have been dying to see Spike with a soul and Drusilla's reactions to each other for a long time too.

As far as PMMJ's statement, isn't this the first time we have heard that Joss has asked a writer if he was interested? (oops Paul-Rocks said that while I was typing.) We have heard writers say they were interested and that they were pushing Joss on it, but I didn't think the other way around.

These things don't happen by magic, they happen one step at a time, usually very slowly and painfully. That looks like what we are seeing. There are still plenty of steps where it could fizzle, but if the steps aren't taken at all, it will definitely never get made. (For my next trick I will state the obvious...what, I did that already? ;-) )

newcj | August 20, 22:16 CET

Lots and lots of movies that get signed by companies (unlike this theory) and even have scripts written (unlike this one) never ever get made. Getting your hopes up at this preliminary stage is only going to set yourself up for disappointment.

PMMJ | August 20, 22:21 CET

So, you mean registering SpikeMovie.org to put pictures of beagles on was a waste of money?! ;)

gossi | August 20, 22:22 CET

Love it, Gossi. :-D

PMMJ, of course being too hopeful at this point is setting ourselves up for pain, but we're Joss Whedon fans, we laugh at pain! Ha ha! ouch! Ok, not that much pain.

newcj | August 20, 22:28 CET

Well lots of people have made very positive noises about this particular project. We now have writers actors and network confirmed as being interested and we have Joss moving from
"getting his ducks in a row" to talking to Tim Minear

And Joss after all is the Godlike genius who got Serenity made, a long shot if ever there was one.

So, not only is my glass half full but it's half full of an especially delicious and toothsome beverage . I intend to enjoy the anticipation and to keep my fingers toes and elbows crossed ( though it does tend to make typing a tad tricky)

A lot of fans have been hoping for this movie for a while now and every step in the right direction is cause for celebration.

This feels like a pretty big step to me

But it would be great if Joss or Tim could just pop in and give us their take on it ( hint hint)

debw | August 20, 22:35 CET

Well if it happens (and that's still a big if) my only request is wanting to see Drusilla's reaction to Spike having a soul.

I completely agree. I can just imagine how horrified Dru would look! I think they could go one of two ways, either a really funny way or a more conventional, dramatic way. The dramatic way would probably be better, and it could be very interesting. Dru had already said that she knew Spike was going to become a cautionary tale for vampires, and that she knew of his obsession with Buffy, but I think the soul would be the ultimate sign of his humanity. I'm not sure how she would react, because she was already rejected by Spike in "Crush" but I don't think she would be entirely unaffected.

In fact I think a post-"Not Fade Away" Spike movie featuring Drusilla would be very interesting. It'd be nice to see some flashbacks to the period when Angel left their group after regaining his soul, and what Darla, Dru and Spike did next.

Razor | August 20, 22:37 CET

Re: Tim. I just watched "Reprise" and "Epiphany" (how much of a loser am I that I only just now realized, after so many years, how similar the words surprise and reprise are?). I have total faith in Tim.

Actually, I found Are You Now or Have You Ever Been? merely okay...the trite McCarthy theme has been played a million times, going back over 50 years with The Crucible...sure, it was freshened in AYNOHYEB, but I was considerably less than thrilled by the Angel folks trotting that old horse around the track again...but I appear to be in the minority.

I'm pretty sure that I read this into it more than it actually being there, but I thought the McCarthyism stuff was secondary to the monster-within stuff going on there. That was my thing, because AYNOHYEB is an intensely personal episode for me. But really, I felt like the racism thing was just a vehicle for a story about letting go of self-loathing.

Anything else which is a not AtS Season 6 would spoil the final of AtS, would lessen its impact.

Indeed. I want that last shot to remain pristine in my mind.

Kiba | August 20, 22:40 CET

Honestly don't want to see pre chipped Spike...or Dru...unless she comes back for a visit. I want souled Spike post NFA and I think if Illyria is involved ( if Joss asked Amy) it will have to be.
Still...whatever, I pray for no regression of the character. Spike at the end of A5 was perfect...he had become his own man, and had made peace with every facet of himself. That makes him one hell of a man in my eyes and I don't want to see that vision ruined...plus I want to make sure he survives in the end of this movie.I don't think I could stand to see him gone for good....

If this is all we ever see of Spike...I want it to be true to and meaningful for the character the way he is NOW..and I want to see he is still out there fighting the good fight...or he has become human....
Jeez...not asking for much huh??? Maybe if Joss thinks of doing any other films he may keep all his options open to bring all these characters back in the event he does consider big screen someday....

kathylovesspike | August 22, 00:47 CET

Ha! Loved the beagle Gossi! Of course it was a smart move to reg that domain. I for one am damned excited! I so hope they make it, and I'm very happy TM is involved, I also hope Jane gets a looks in to.

nixygirl | August 22, 03:38 CET

The only thing I have to say is Spike & Illyria/Fred.

That's all I have to say.

Zoic_Fan | August 22, 04:32 CET

I have something else to say, don't expect to see Faith in this movie, because it wouldn't be described as a Faith movie, not a Spike Movie. I can't imagine a movie that would have Spike as the main character and Faith as the sidekick. If Faith was in this movie she would be the main character and Spike would be the sidekick.

Now Spike as the main character and Illyria/Fred as the sidekick I can see.

Zoic_Fan | August 22, 04:44 CET

How 'bout Spike and Clem join PETA for the good of felines everywhere? The jacket would have to go, maybe pleather?

They could liberate some furry prisoners from a shark-owned kitten mill guarded by beagles.

As one might surmise, I'm happy with anything 'verse related that bears a Joss stamp of approval.

[ edited by Biff Turkle on 2005-08-22 05:53 ]

Biff Turkle | August 22, 04:51 CET

TM tapped for a Spike project? Awesome. Dare I be optimistic this will actually come to pass?

AFAIK, anything new-Buffy/Angel-verse would be a drink of cold water in the desert right now. I mean, I just watched a rerun of "Dad" last week and caught myself thinking it wasn't that bad -- a clear indication that nostalgia has begun to erode my memory. Something with a whiff of the familiar old gang, yet thrillingly fresh, would recalibrate me nicely. I love the Spike/Fred-Illyria idea, but I'm prepared to be happy with whatever I get knowing there's a Joss-sanctioned hand (highly skilled in its own right) on the reigns.

Wiseblood | August 22, 07:12 CET

MissKittysMom: Tim was not an executive producer for Angel Season 5. I'm not even sure he was involved with Angel at all after "Home".

KernelM | August 22, 08:10 CET

anything over 13 hours... um. I got nothin'.

Ah Tim, how I love thee.

Arabchick | August 22, 08:43 CET

For the sake of Buffyverse historians looking back on this thread way in the future, Tim Minear had a little more to say about it when Herc at AICN queried the info.

Yeah, that's me. Probably shouldn't have said anything, but what the hell. You're behind this somehow, aren't you?

Simon | August 22, 09:59 CET

You can find more information about it here.

gossi, is that the CGI beagle Joss said at ComicCon he replaced Gina with?

jaynelovesvera | August 22, 11:26 CET

MissKittysMom: Tim was not an executive producer for Angel Season 5. I'm not even sure he was involved with Angel at all after "Home".

I thought he was showrunner? Maybe I made that up because I wanted it to be true. I think I did, Jeff Bell was running by then, wasn't he?

Kiba | August 22, 12:40 CET

During the planning for season 4, *deep breath here* Greenwalt left to do Miracles, Tim went off to do Firefly, David Simkins came in and then left after three months, Joss became showrunner for a little and then Jeff Bell took over officially.

It was very musical chairs at the time.

Ocipital is the best person to ask about the ins and outs of all of this.

Simon | August 22, 12:51 CET

Ah, yes, Simon. I remember reading/hearing all about it, now. Think I blocked most of it from my memory.

Kiba | August 22, 17:40 CET

Tim is best regarded as Greenwalts very competant deputy from about half way through season 1 to the end of season 3, doing such show running duties such as rewrites (in season 1 he wrote or rewrote 17 episodes, most uncredited).

At the end of season 2 his importance to Angel became so apparent that 20th Century Fox tied him down with an exclusive 3 year, 7 figure, contract. To give some indication of how important Tim was despite not actually being showrunner, Marti did not get this until after she had been an actual official showrunner for over a year (end of s6).

At the end of s3 Joss asked Tim to showrun Firefly. However Greenwalts contract with Fox expired, and they got into a contract dispute, that led to him leaving Angel for Miracles. David Simkins was bought in to replace Greenwalt, with both Joss and Tim overseeing Angel as well as Firefly. Simkins was sacked by the third episode, and Jeff Bell was made showrunner. Tim stayed involved above Bell until after 4x07 where he was needed constantly on Firefly (missing out on 4x13 which he was supposed to write). After Firefly's cancelation Tim returned to Angel for 4x15. By then Bell and the team was much more settled, he decided he was no longer needed, and took up a job offer to showrun Wonderfalls. He had no part in Season 5 which was showrun by Bell with Fury's help. Although it was initially planned that he'd write and direct 5x20, he had to pull out due to commitments to Wonderfalls. After Wonderfalls was cancelled he took a pass at a big screen adaption of Moon is a harsh mistress, then was offered a showrunner position on The Inside. He then convinced 20th Cent Fox that The Inside's concept was unworkable, and reshot the pilot, twice! He is currently taken a second pass at the moon is a harsh mistress.

Ocipital | August 22, 17:59 CET

Cheers Ocipital :).I appreciate that.

Simon | August 22, 18:25 CET

I knew all the more recent stuff. An excellent history of Tim, Ocipital, which should serve to settle the minds of any who think he doesn't have the chops to handle a Spike project. Thank you.

Kiba | August 22, 19:36 CET

If we get a post-NFA Spike movie. I really think we're owed an explanation as to what happened, how they survived, etc. I don't want to see the end of the battle (because that would spoil the final shot of NFA) but I do want to know why Spike is alive and why Earth hasn't been overrun by demons.

batmarlowe | August 22, 22:38 CET

but I do want to know why Spike is alive and why Earth hasn't been overrun by demons.

'Cause there are like a gagillion slayers and hundreds of other whitehats scattered across the earth. In my mind, where California had Buffy & Angel, Canada had... Billy Jane or something. And then, you know... others.

Christopher | August 23, 03:30 CET

P.S. Billy Jane is a boy who learned that he can somehow create fire from his hands and therefore goes out every night, setting vampires on fire. Also he has dark messy hair and freckles.

Christopher | August 23, 03:32 CET

But Jane is a girl's name.

Sorry, but it had to be said. I will hide now!

catalyst2 | August 23, 14:55 CET

And!? Think about it - Angel ... Fred ... Buffy!?

Christopher | August 24, 00:15 CET

August 20 2005