Ah, media coverage... this is of course, the earlier reported 'Joss checks in with those who would be involved' and doesn't mean a greenlight. Oh, I see it actually refers to Whedonesque, but doesn't link.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-08-24 22:12 ]

zeitgeist | August 24, 15:11 CET

Hmmm, I wonder if this is legit.

JoAnnP38 | August 24, 15:12 CET

Well, Tim admits that it occurred (if you dig up the earlier Whedonesque link), but the project is not scheduled or greenlit yet, just being talked still. Earlier info was from Allyson, who would know.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-08-24 22:15 ]

zeitgeist | August 24, 15:14 CET

Yes, this is more than a tad premature...

Chris inVirginia | August 24, 15:15 CET

I thought this had already been reported? Perhaps not.

As I've said before, I'm not holding my breath. But I am hoping.

Razor | August 24, 15:16 CET

I don't think this adds anything at all to what we already knew about Tim Minear's possible involvement. In fact, the article itself doesn't claim that the movie is actually going ahead, just that the rumors are gaining ground. I'm going to amend the link title accordingly.

Still and all, nice props: "according to fansite Whedonesque" . . . I'm guessing the Sun online is pretty darn heavily-visited.

SoddingNancyTribe | August 24, 15:20 CET

Wow! A whedonesque.com posts that links to a news report that sources a post on whedonesque.com! It's like watching a snake eating it's tail! :)

Matt_Fabb | August 24, 15:24 CET

The Sun is totally jumping the gun. That the movie is actually being made, is still only rumor. It's too early to tell.

electricspacegirl | August 24, 15:25 CET

Several other sites are carrying this news as well, Moviehole and AICN for example, so unless they say something new there's no link to all of them. At least the report on AICN, Harry actually talked to Tim to confirm the quote here on Whedonesque.

killinj | August 24, 15:26 CET

I'm just curious, isn't it a good thing that this is being spread in a much read tabloid -- even IF it is only a RUMOUR? You know what they say about the incongruence of publicity and badness.

JoAnnP38 | August 24, 15:29 CET

Yes, it's a good thing, but the original headline of this post was that a Spike movie is being made. I have to admit, it got my hopes up for a second. I just don't want people overreacting and getting too excited when it's still just in a discussion phase.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-08-24 22:45 ]

electricspacegirl | August 24, 15:40 CET

Well, I agree that we're not going to link to every site that carries the identical news. I do think that this site being mentioned in The Sun online is a biggish deal, though.

esg: that's why I amended the title.

[ETA] Just to be clear, in general I don't trust anything The Sun prints as far as I could spit it. Since we already have trustworthy corroboration of Joss and Tim's conversation, that isn't an issue here. The only newsworthy aspect of this link, IMO, is that it mentions this site.

SoddingNancyTribe | August 24, 15:41 CET

I know I'll be branded a heretic for this, but does anyone else feel like maybe William should be let to lie? I have to admit that although I LOVED his stuff in Angel S5 I felt that it somewhat diminished the incredible character arc that he had... I mean look at him in School Hard and look at him in Chosen. Wow... EPIC is the word... the stuff of legend and myth. Just me, maybe. On the other hand, since he is around, I certainly am interested in what he's up to.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-08-24 22:46 ]

zeitgeist | August 24, 15:44 CET

electronicspacegirl: I'm just relaying what the Sun is saying with their headline, "Buffy movies in the works". Yes, perhaps it smacks of the cart and horse, but if even a false rumor can generate enough excitement perhaps someone in the industry will take notice giving us all a real reason to be happy. I least I can dream.

JoAnnP38 | August 24, 15:50 CET

Yes, it's a story we covered before, but it's news for the article to be posted in 'The Sun'. I'm happy with that, nothing wrong with a little publicity such as this.

Madhatter | August 24, 15:59 CET

Zeitgeist, I see your point. Bringing Spike back in AtS 5 did diminish Spike's epic arc a bit, especially since when Chosen aired, the fans already knew he'd be back on Angel. But not only do I think Spike's resurrection added a lot to Angel's arc, but also opened up new dimension to the Spike character. I still would love to see Spike and Buffy to reconnect, because his feelings for Buffy are left unresolved, no matter what he said about moving on at the end of TGiQ. I want those feelings to be resolved somehow, and not in a Spuffy shipper way of "they must be together!" Buffy is important to Spike, and she's a big reason why he is the vampire-with-soul that he is today.

Joss said he has a story to tell with Spike. He said it would be a Spike we've never seen before. Joss wouldn't write it if it wasn't a story he needed to tell. I just think there's more to the character that can be explored. For example, on Angel, Spike decided to stay in L.A. when he became corporeal, and go on without Buffy. But you know being with Buffy again was always on his mind. What happens when he goes on from there, after the big Los Angeles apocolypse, and exist without her? I'd like to see him have an epiphany about his relationship with Buffy, and figure out that he can be a Champion without her. Personally, I'd be interested in seeing a new love interest for Spike, but I doubt that's something on 2 hour TV movie would do justice.

Again, I understand where you're coming from, Zeitgeist, but I think that since they did resurrect Spike, and Ats 5 didn't do him justice, a movie can give the writers the opportunity to redeem that.

Oh, and trust me, I'm not criticizing how they wrote Spike on Angel. They just didn't give Spike as much focus as he had on Buffy. I was more interested in the other characters at the time anyway.

And while I'm still on the topic, Illyria anyone? Man, I really want to know more about that character. A Spike/Illyria movie would be fantastic. I'd die happy.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-08-24 23:25 ]

electricspacegirl | August 24, 16:03 CET

"Illyria anyone?"

More Amy PLEASE!!!! :)

SpookyRiverFan | August 24, 16:06 CET

esg -- nicely said, and I don't disagree with you. As I said, since he's here I would love to see where he goes, especially if its a Joss/Tim co-throwdown plotwise. Illyria? Hell, yes. Imagining the Spike/Illyria dynamic going forward makes me pretty excited to see something like that come about. The ways those two characters could play off one another and the things that they could learn from each other. Potentially very cool territory.

zeitgeist | August 24, 16:06 CET

Zeitgeist, there're a lot of other people who feel the way you do.

As far as I know, Joss originally intended for Spike to die permanently at the end of Buffy Season 7. He was a part of the requirement for The WB's renewal of Angel for a fifth season though, so they kinda had to comply (and it probably helped viewership). I mean that necklace-soul-saving thing felt kinda contrived. Usually the use of artifacts that important to the plot and characters' lives wasn't so hackneyed in this franchise. There were a few times when they put Spike to good use in Angel Season 5, but for the most part I didn't think he was necessary and there were a lot of times his presence was flat-out annoying.

Marsters is a great actor, but I've seen enough of him as Spike. Will I watch a Spike film? Of course. Do I think there're characters far more in need of further storytelling (Illyria) ? Hell yes. But are they as marketable? Not nearly. If ya can't get SMG or Boreanaz back, Marsters is the next best thing if this is going to air on a network.

[ edited by Kris on 2005-08-24 23:11 ]

Kris | August 24, 16:07 CET

Actually, I think a Willow movie would be just as marketable as a Spike movie, but maybe I'm wrong. Honestly though, I'd like to see Faith added to the Spike/Illyria dynamic. Seeing the Faith/Spike scenes in Buffy S7, they had some great chemistry.

Emma Frost | August 24, 16:15 CET

I tend to concur with both zeitgeist and Kris's comments. I would also hope that Tim and whoever else was involved would have free rein to tell a cracking good story rather than seek to assuage concerns that Spike "must" remain ensouled or "must" end up with Buffy or "must" do this that and the other. And since there have been relatively few characters in any of the Jossverse series that I haven't cared for at all, I'm confident that if TM (and others) came up with some all-new heroes and villains, that would be fine too.

The only thing I demand (and always receive) from Joss and his colleagues is quality. In whatever form they choose to provide it.

SoddingNancyTribe | August 24, 16:20 CET

Not sure I'm getting this right. JoAnnP38, you saw that headline in The Sun and posted it here... but didn't realise they got the story from our site, despite the fact it is written in the article?

(Because that? Kinda funny.)

Caroline | August 24, 16:29 CET

Thanks for blocking the punch, Simon.

Allyson | August 24, 16:31 CET

Well spoken, electricspacegirl. In mind's eye, I always saw Illyria running off with her favorite 'pet' when she sees the battle is hopeless. 'Course, Spike wouldn't be too pleased by this and launches into his speal how women always seem to belay his best laid plans on saving the day. Which would lead to an interesting discussion between Illyria and Spike about Buffy. Remember, Illyria doesn't have any experiences with Slayers so it would be awesome in watching Spike explain their existence and his feelings towards Buffy. Think I better stop there on the speculating, but this is so in Tim's area in story telling.

Madhatter | August 24, 16:42 CET

Caroline: When I read the article I took the headline to be something beyond what one could infer from Tim's quote here on Whedonesque. Didn't you? The fact that they quoted Whedonesque was actually not as important to me. It would seem many other people here are questioning the Sun's logic as well; however, I like good tabloid rumors.

JoAnnP38 | August 24, 16:43 CET

Wouldn't this be considered self self quoting or like uber metalinguistic phenomenon?
I find it funny the way people quotes Whedonesque stuff.
The other day I saw, a brazilian site linking for Veronica Mars' thread from Joss, and they called WHedonesque -quote - "Joss personal weblog" -end quote.
I wasn't even sure If I was supposed to correct them, without sounding to obnoxious.

Now onto Spike movie. I'm really curious about how they'll twist it, because it'll surely be somethign different from BtVS and Angel.

Numfar PTB | August 24, 17:04 CET

When I read the article I took the headline to be something beyond what one could infer from Tim's quote here on Whedonesque. Didn't you?

No, because the story, the info, the source, etc had been discussed here and verified before, as others have mentioned. I guess you must have missed it when it was posted last week. It would be easy to, with the rate stuff gets posted here!

Caroline | August 24, 17:15 CET

I hope that Tim and Joss pay absolutely no attention to which group of fans want what from this film but that they simply write the story they want to tell. They will never please all of us so they may as well please themselves
Oh and talking of iconic

Destiny
Hellbound
A Hole In The World
Damage
NFA

All had some truly great Spike moments

yes there were times when I felt Spike's character was being written slightly * off* in ATS5 but boy when it all came togther it was fantastic

it would have been worth it all just for that moment in Damage

" she's an innocent victim"

" So were we once upon a time"

And of course that last shot in the alley

" So, in terms of a plan?"

" We fight"..........


"Let's go to work"

* sob*

debw | August 24, 17:19 CET

Grrr. I once had a bad experience with The Sun (I was young and stupid, ok?) and since then I am an ardent anti-The Sun campaigner and don't want to sully the board with the foulness that tends to issue forth from my lips anytime it's mentioned. Suffice it to say - they suck beyond all measure and having the Whedonverse mentioned in that demon rag is like a violation! Grr!

lone fashionable wolf | August 24, 17:29 CET

Everything debw said.
With another...sob.

nixygirl | August 24, 19:04 CET

Aieee! A temporal vortex!


Aieee! A temporal vortex!


Aieee! A temporal vortex!...

bookrats | August 24, 19:06 CET

lone fashionable wolf, you should wear Sunscreen so you don't get burned again!

[ edited by jaynelovesvera on 2005-08-25 02:37 ]

jaynelovesvera | August 24, 19:11 CET

As a Spike devotee, I can say that he is my character of choice for a continued foray into the Buffy universe. Also, I have no doubt that fan desires will factor in to exactly zero much of the writing. I certainly would never go so far as to say that Spike "must" end up with Buffy. Joss will tell his story as he sees fit and that is perfectly okay with me. He has never let me down so far.

I don't want to discount any of the above comments as they are certainly valid opinions. But with that said, I don’t think that I could buy in to a new love interest. Above all else and to his very core, Spike is an unflinching romantic. He doesn’t let go easily. He remained steadfast to Dru for over a century despite her obsession/dalliances with Angel and his resulting insecurities. Surely, the source of his redemption would warrant equal devotion. I find it difficult to believe that he could reconcile his feelings for Buffy in such a pragmatic fashion. And in my opinion, his “moving on” sentiment in TGiQ is mere lip service. This is not to say that he could not continue his journey with those feelings unresolved and lurking ever present.

I don’t mean to sound all ‘shippy, really. To me, it is ultimately about the characterization of Spike to which I have grown so fond.

I choose to live in my own little world where Spike loves intensely and despite all logic. And there, Spike loves Buffy. I don’t want to move out anytime soon. Not to sound fanatical (er, more fanatical).

Rank Amateur | August 24, 19:35 CET

I am just another voice in the chorus of "More Illyria please!" My boyfriend insists, and I tend to agree with him, that there's just no way Angel, Spike, and Gunn would walk out of that fight alive. As many have pointed out, that last shot was amazing, a fitting end to the show more than perhaps any other last shot of a series I've seen, and I don't want that spoiled. Illyria seems to be the only one likely to have gotten out of there in one piece. I'd buy Spike surviving either through cleverness, self-preservation instincts (bolting, though I think that would disappoint most Spike fans, esp. redemptionists) or the handiwork of Illyria.

Illyria is not as marketable to the general public as Spike is (this is a numbers thing, and maybe I'm wrong, but I've not seen nearly as fervent a fanbase for Illyria/Amy Acker as I have for Spike/James Marsters) but I think she must be a key player in any Spike story post-Angel S5.

And I agree with Madhatter - a Spike and Illyria story (trying to stay away from the /) is very much in Tim's bailiwick. Illyria is nothing if not broken, and her road to wholeness is something I'd love to see him do. It makes me sad just to think about the chance that he never got to write for her on the show.

Kiba | August 24, 19:38 CET

Well, I'm of the opinion that every. single. one. of us would watch it. Eat it up, even. Regardless of what you think of Spike, you can't tell me that we all wouldn't park our butts, excitedly, for any revisit to the Buffyverse.

We're fans, fer cryin' out loud!

Willowy | August 24, 19:45 CET

There are a group of Spuffy fans on LJ who definitely DO NOT want a Spike movie. The biggest reason is because if Buffy can't be in it, they don't want a movie telling them that he isn't with Buffy.

All I have ever said is that whatever story Joss wants to create, I want to watch it. Joss is Boss.

electricspacegirl | August 24, 20:03 CET

So much well-said here, that I won't try to top it, but I have to grudgingly agree with zeitgeist, Kris, et al, re: Spike's story reaching its natural conclusion in Chosen.

Dear, sweet, filthy, William is likely my favorite TV/film character of all time, so it is with a heavy heart that I am forced to admit that he may not be best served by yet another resurrection. But admit it, i will. Perhaps it's best to let Spike lie. (preferably at my house, while he's forgotten to pack his j's. and here's also hoping zeitgeist doesn't return to this thread to catch that ; ) )

Of course, I'd be foaming at the mouth and counting down the minutes to a Spike movie, were it to be made, but it'd be with one hand over my eyes, remembering how awkward, how silly, and how embarassing I felt his stint on Angel turned out, for the most part, to be.

barest_smidgen | August 24, 21:02 CET

So, now we're posting stories about stories we posted? What's next? Will The Sun report that Whedonesque is reporting that the Sun reported about Whedonesque's report on the Spike movie? Where will it all end?

It's perfectly Jossian in its depth and layering!

sari | August 24, 21:25 CET

Spike maturing as a character means Spike leaving Buffy behind. So no problems there. I must agree with barest smidgen though - I want the movie, but I'll have my hands over my eyes, hoping that they do better by Spike than what we saw in Season 5 AtS, which was kind of painful.

I do think a movie without either Buffy or Angel in it sounds like it could work for Spike, as a character. It made sense that he behaved as he did around Angel in S5, but it wasn't very fun to watch. And the Buffy story is over, so I don't want to see that.

Anyhow - go Spike movie!!

sari | August 24, 21:30 CET

Sari, that made me laugh.

Barest_smidgen, but in a Spike movie, Spike would have all the focus. And that's where he SHINES. I have always been under the assumption that Spike, Angel, and Illyria made it out of the alley alive after NFA. Because Joss insinuated as much. I tend to forget there are folks that believe they all died. If that is what happened, then I wouldn't want Spike brought back. But he was brought back from the dead, and I feel he needs his due. Angel got his due. I don't feel there is much more to say about him after 8 seasons of his story.

However, if I may offer up an idea I came up with for a Buffyverse big screen movie... My thought has been that if Buffy is allowed to go big screen, it would have to be a huge, epic plot that ties in with the larger arcs of both the Buffy and Angel series. Some Big Bad event happens caused by Buffy sharing her powers, and connects with Angel's dealings in W&H, on an enormous global scale. My first thought was why not think bigger than globally, how about Buffy in space? Space Buffy! But Buffy was always just about this world. Maybe it could deal with other dimensions and possibly The First Slayer.

I don't actually know what the plot would be, exactly. But it would involve all of the key players: Buffy, Angel, Willow, Xander, Giles, Spike, Dawn, Tara (bringing her back from the dead), Wesley, Fred (Illyria), and even possibly Lilah and Holland Manners. Give everyone an important task in the biggest apocalypse ever. Lots of magic and demons and slaying and good stuff like that. Resolve issues left hanging. I guess it's always been my dream to see Buffy finally end up with one of her favorite vampires, but I know that's not going to happen.

Anyway, I think there is still a story to tell with Buffy. It just has to be on a grand, epic scale. One thought is to show us the final battle that was mentioned in Fray, where demons are banished from this world and the Slayer line goes dead.

Ok, that was a bit off-topic, but I couldn't help myself. I don't think the story of Buffy is dead. I mean, she's still living a life in fiction-land. I'd sure love to see what she's up to, and what that whole Immortal business was about.

electricspacegirl | August 24, 21:48 CET

She says as if I don't read every post here :) At this point I'm tempted to remind barest_smidgen of just how many windows she has at her house... no, that's okay, William, just lay right there in front of the window. What's that? The burning smell? Oh, surely its just some toast that my love left in the toaster too long- silly girl! I'll go check on it, poppet, don't you fuss, now (this being the green-eyed monster/comedic effect version).

alternately: Alright, William, but you have to make it believable, I need some good bruises and some bleeding so she'll buy your 'escape' and not think that I just untied you and set you free. Hurry up with the Wheetabix and blood, man, for goodness sake, she'll be home any minute! Now, hit me!

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-08-25 06:32 ]

zeitgeist | August 24, 23:07 CET

Omg, I forgot you two were hooked up. I was wondering why zeitgeist would care if barest_smidgen hooked up with Spike or anybody. Ok, I get it now. And I'm totally jealous of you guys. It's been a fantasy of mine to hook up with a Whedonesquer. That would just be too perfect. Sigh.

Oh, what was the topic? Spike? Oh, yeah. Go, Spike tv movie!

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-08-25 06:39 ]

electricspacegirl | August 24, 23:38 CET

I came back to this thread just to read zeitgeist's reaction - and well worth it. esg, keep hoping, Whedonesquers are definitely the best of the crop.

samatwitch | August 25, 00:00 CET

~little bow~ I aim to amuse :) If you want passionate, intelligent, and funny, then send in your Whe-dating fees today. Sign up now and get kind, thoughtful, and perceptive free of charge! Sign up in the next ten minutes and we will guarantee that your Whe-date is living within your country of residence.

ETA: lest you think I'm kissing my own arse, allow me to point out that I am in actuality kissing barest_smidgen's. And as we both stopped paying our Whe-date membership dues (no need now, you see), I'm really just being a good pitchman and talking up the potential Whe-dates that await electricspacegirl and the rest of you on this site. ~makes talky motion with hand~ Zeitgeist shut up and go sleep now...

p.s. -- awaits Madhatter's inevitable 'love is in the air... please kill me' follow up :)) also, would love to see a Fray flick.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-08-25 07:18 ]

zeitgeist | August 25, 00:09 CET

Where is this Whedonesque dating service? Seriously, there needs to be a Buffy and Firefly personals site or something. Matchmaker, make me a match!

electricspacegirl | August 25, 00:18 CET

I think I heard that Simon is going to be running it now ~mischievous grin~

zeitgeist | August 25, 00:19 CET

Man, it's getting pretty steamy in here. Can a disco ball and a weekly dance night, with Whedonesquers swaying in the glittery black, be far behind? ;)

One thought is to show us the final battle that was mentioned in Fray, where demons are banished from this world and the Slayer line goes dead.

This is my dream too, esg: Panoramic, big-screen Joss with all the major players embroiled in a genuinely earthshaking 'verse event. Makes me all a-quiver in my nethers!

And a Fray movie with Kristen Bell as Melaka, if anyone has missed my fixation with this idea is not far behind.

Wiseblood | August 25, 01:15 CET

Can a disco ball and a weekly dance night, with Whedonesquers swaying in the glittery black, be far behind?

I'd totally be there! Granted, I'd probably sitting in the corner talking to a French monkey, but I'd still be there!

Wiseblood, right there with you on a Fray movie, starring Kristen Bell, Right there with you.

...So, I take it you're single then? ;)

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-08-25 08:32 ]

electricspacegirl | August 25, 01:29 CET

Duuude. Fray? With Kristen Bell?

So, so SO there.

Emma Frost | August 25, 02:53 CET

lol, jaynelovesvera!

Now I have this image of a Whedonesque disco like the ones we had at school....some of us dancing joyfully with our hearts desire, some wallflowers...and some sneaking out for cans of cider and a quick cigarette. Ah! memories....and who's that fumbling behind the bike sheds?

Also, a Spike movie with Faith and Illyria, dammit!

lone fashionable wolf | August 25, 03:05 CET

That's me, I dropped the damn bike lock and I can't find it in the friggin' dark and I rode all this way to this silly ass party just to see my first french monkey and my cousin's gonna kill my ass (arse if you prefer) if someone steals his damn bike while I'm in there watching this freakin' french monkey get all the chicks and...

jaynelovesvera | August 25, 04:39 CET

Personally I was a little annoyed when I read Fray. It was great and all, but that point about the slayer line ruined it for me. I only read it a couple of months ago, but I am aware Joss wrote it around the time of Buffy season seven which means he didn't make a mistake, it was his intention. And it's totally fair and he ca do what he likes and it will probably work.

But I just hate the idea that Buffy's actions in "Chosen" were ultimately fruitless. I thought it was a great idea that in the future there will always be hundreds of slayers and that there is no Chosen One anymore, and that Buffy and her friends have altered the world forever. It would also even the odds for the Slayers against vampires. But in Fray's time, the slayer line was practically dead, with Fray herself not inheriting the subconscious memories of her predecessors, and no Watcher's Council to speak of.

Sure, it's implied that Buffy or any slayer after her managed to banish the demons after an apocalyptic battle, but in Fray's time vampires still exist. I think the message brought up in both Buffy and Angel, most prominently in "Not Fade Away" is that the fight never stops, that there will always be evil, and that there will always be good people around to stop it.

I like to think that Giles managed to rebuild the Watcher's Council, without the rigid rules and out-of-date traditions, to make it more effective, and that the slayers throughout the world would manage to control the vampire and demon population. I don't want it to be eradicated completely, because that would defeat the message of "evil will always exist". And every so often a particularly nasty or powerful foe might spring up, but that it will be defeated eventually. This would continue for hundreds of years.

That's just my vision of what I would have liked to have happen. The idea that the army of slayers does not exist anymore, even though there is still need for it, is disappointing. But who knows, perhaps Fray is on a completely different planet? Perhaps there are slayers all over the world unaware of one another? There wasn't really any one person that definitely told Fray the whole truth, so there are a lot of possibilites.

Razor | August 25, 05:59 CET

jaynelovesvera: Laughed out loud at you with your bike lock. Whedonesquers are a damn funny bunch. (See below for more support of Whe-Dating.)

electricspacegirl: Well thought out, you, and well-said. You've got me thinking, for sure. (As a point of clarification, when I said I felt Spike might not be best served by yet another 'resurrection' didn't mean I felt he had died, just meant another 'retelling.' Sometimes, me too much with the too-close-to-literal metaphor.) The Spike and Illyria dynamic barely had a chance to be explored; it was, indeed, delicious and I'd be the first in line to sign up for that pay-per-view, were it to come to pass. I'm just still reeling a bit from how I felt Angel S5 diminished Chosen.

I mean, I adore the character and his story. I couldn't get enough of him with Buffy, messy and damaged as it was. But I loved, loved, loved him with Drusilla. Hell, I even loved him with Harmony, cackled at the hints that he'd been with Angel and ate up the cringe-worthy come-on from his mother. And I speak solely of who he's been with because more than any character we've known, that's what he was about. So, Chosen seemed to pay that off in two very satisfying ways: 1) he stayed true-to-form, choosing the grand gesture to win over the girl, and 2) he grew in ways heretofore unimaginable, by choosing a selfless act that would forever separate him from that girl. Bittersweet. Brilliant. Left me wanting more. Which, though it pains me to admit, is how it should be. (Anyone remember Joanie Loves Chachi? I wish I didn't.)

And re: Whe-Dating, esg, why don't you found the first official chapter? You are funny, fun, articulate, compassionate and smart.... what a perfect host for others of like-mind, looking to connect. (See above for Whedonesquers being a damn funny bunch.) Don't wait for it to happen, girl. Make it so!

and zeitgeist: *blinks innocently* Oh, gosh...you stopped paying your..? You thought that we....? *draws shades closed for pale houseguest* This is certainly awkward. It's just that... well, I'm still... on occasion, I... well, it's sorta how I met Spi... *clears throat nervously* Could we, um, talk about this later? In private? You know, not in front of everyone at W-esque...?

barest_smidgen | August 25, 07:25 CET

Razor -- the way I see Fray is that the many many Slayers took out all or most the vamps and as the energy of the Slayer line was spread thin the line went dormant for a while. As the vamps returned, the need for a Slayer led to the return of the Slayer in a 'reboot' sort of way -- starting with a clean slate, not knowing everything about the Slayer powers, where they come from, etc. This leaves it wide open for stories that deal with Melaka finding out about herself and her powers (granted, we, the viewers/readers know the score). So rather than the army of Slayers not existing even though there is a need for it, I think that Buffy's actions caused a swing in the balance so far to the other side that it zero'd everything -- or rather it drove things far into the negative given the normal balance of one Slayer, many vamps/forces of darkness -- and in Fray's time the balance has swung too far the other way, leading to a return of the Slayer line and, well, basically the system self-corrects.

barest_smidgen -- hey, but you said no shari-- ESPECIALLY with the undea-- but... *sulk*... alternately -- *tackle* hush, you...

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2005-08-25 14:50 ]

zeitgeist | August 25, 07:30 CET

I've got a slightly different take on the connection between the Buffy/Angel era and Fray. The way i see it the apocalyptic battle that is mentioned in Fray, the one where a slayer (most likely Buffy) manages to block the demon dimensions from earth's reality until the time Fray is called, is the same apocalypse we have been hearing so much about in Angel. The one that the Senior Partners have been working toward for so long. When the final days arrive Buffy and Angel, along with all the allies they still have at the time, manage to defeat the plans of the Wolf, Ram and Hart and bring about a demon free age. This is the point where either Angel or Spike will shanshu, saving them from the final fate of all the other demons on earth.

For whatever reason (i'm sure Joss would come up with a better one than i could) the act that brings about this event will also cut of the power of the slayer from the earth dimension and so all the girls that are slayers at that time, Buffy and Faith included, will return to their human selves. When the slayerline is activated again and Fray is called the old rules return and there is only one chosen one at any one time.

I's just a theory i've considered but it does nicely tie together the central themes of Buffy, Angel and Fray. If Joss happens to read this and wants to use it as a plot for a Buffy/Angel movie trilogy i'll have no objections ... although a writer's credit would be nice! ;)

WhedonTrivia | August 25, 08:13 CET

Vampire With A Gun -- nicely laid out, and entirely possible. Would love to see it as a trilogy or a 13 episode series on the tube... would need some good budget and some network faith though, so I don't trust that as much ;)

zeitgeist | August 25, 08:18 CET

Vampire With A Gun, excellent concept. I like your theory. It makes sense. And it's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'd love to see Joss create that, but the only problem is pissing off the fans that want the other souled vampire get the shanshu. Personally, I've always felt it was Angel's. But, if his signature can sign away his shanshu, then it would have to go to Spike. That reminds me. How can a signature on a written prophecy sign it away? That makes no sense. I never bought that anyway.

Whatever the case, I want to see it! It would definitely be the end of the story thought. Are we ready for that?

And re: Whe-Dating, esg, why don't you found the first official chapter? You are funny, fun, articulate, compassionate and smart.... what a perfect host for others of like-mind, looking to connect. (See above for Whedonesquers being a damn funny bunch.) Don't wait for it to happen, girl. Make it so!

*Faints from complement overload* Thanks, sweetie!

Well, I envision a Whedonesque dating service as being a personals website and I know nothing about creating a website. I can't think of any other forum that would be right for that sort of thing. If you have any ideas, let me know.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-08-25 15:54 ]

electricspacegirl | August 25, 08:47 CET

Won't you alll be shocked when The Immortal Shanshus... *ducks rotten fruit*

zeitgeist | August 25, 08:51 CET

Zeitgeist, I always thought it would be Drusilla. There's something about that blood line that's special. Darla, Spike, and Angel have all found redemption. I believe the PTB chose them for a reason. So, if anyone but Spike and Angel shanshu, it would be Dru.

electricspacegirl | August 25, 08:59 CET

Cheers guys, glad you liked it.

As for whether or not we are ready for the end of the story, well if this did end up being made in some way, shape or form then it wouldn't be any time soon as it would need both Sarah and David on board. Therefore there would be plenty of time to get in some more tales from the slayerverse in telemovie, mini series or, better yet, actual third series form. Then a movie trilogy such as this to bring all the tales and characters back together for one final apocalyptic blowout. I think i would be okay with the story ending at that point if it really felt like the story was done and dusted (pardon the vamp pun).

WhedonTrivia | August 25, 09:03 CET

esg, that's true, isn't it? Never thought of it like that.

Well if Dru did shanshu, it would kill her. Without her guiltless vampire self, she'd be broken and devasted by her countless brutal acts. She's so mentally fragile anyway...I think she'd fling herself off a cliff.

Willowy | August 25, 09:04 CET

I'd love to see stories about how Buffy and Faith deal with a lack of physical power. It's so much who they are - how do they handle themselves without it?

re: the Whedonesque dating service, I'm forming all kinds of ideas in my head wondering if such a thing could actually work. And if it mightn't be possible to make it *free*. Having an entrepreneurial spirit is such a PAIN sometimes.

Kiba | August 25, 09:23 CET

Yeah, it can be done free-ish (as in cheap): Consumating. They use tagging like we do. So if y'all sign up and give yourself a 'whedonesque' tag... instant 'Whedonesting'.

Caroline | August 25, 09:27 CET

Keep me posted on that, Kiba. I'll help in any way I can.

electricspacegirl | August 25, 09:30 CET

The Sun.
Publishing at it's best!
Next to Loaded.

LOL!

Jonas | August 25, 09:36 CET

As the owner of Consumating, I can say that I'd love to have you guys use the site for your own mischievious dating purposes. We've already got a few Whedon fans on the site...

http://consumating.com/tags/buffy
http://consumating.com/tags/buffythevampireslayer
http://consumating.com/tags/firefly
http://consumating.com/tags/whedon
http://consumating.com/tags/whedon
http://consumating.com/tags/josswhedon
http://consumating.com/tags/whedonesque

And lots of other sci fi nerds of various types.

Ben Brown | August 25, 14:45 CET

Caroline: No, because the story, the info, the source, etc had been discussed here and verified before, as others have mentioned. I guess you must have missed it when it was posted last week. It would be easy to, with the rate stuff gets posted here.

So, let met get this straight you thought it was perfectly reasonable that the Sun posts a headline that "Buffy movies in the works" based on the posts here at Whedonesque???? I don't think that is very logical -- buy hey, to each their own. The Sun's conclusion IS beyond what can be inferred from the posts here. This sites own follow up confirms that.

JoAnnP38 | August 25, 15:54 CET

Actually JoannP38, it looks to me that the Sun's article is entirely based on what was posted on Whedonesque (which was taken from another unnamed site and confirmed here by the person who runs that unnamed site and then confirmed again by ATCN.) Is your post supposed to imply that an outlet such as the Sun would not use a lowly site such as this as its source? I personally would not take offense, because I am simply a lowly poster around here, but I think you may be underestimating some of the other posters on Whedonesque and overestimating what it takes to be a source for an outlet like the Sun. (Nothing against the Sun, I don't know it very well.)

newcj | August 25, 17:15 CET

JoAnnP38, yes that's exactly how it went, not just what I 'think' may have happened. Sigh. Once more: The Sun picked it up from all the other sites that reported on the news that was posted here after a tip off from a fan board and then was also confirmed on AICN. If you had read the original thread, as mentioned earlier, it probably wouldn't seem 'illogical'.

Caroline | August 29, 17:08 CET