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August 29 2005

Excellent review of Spike: Old Times. Gary Miller at Comixfan gives his opinion on Peter David's first Spike one-shot.

"My" local comicstore did not have any copy for me....and I told them TWICE to save one for me. It is a great store but, this kind of made me mad.
"My" local comicstore did not have any copy for me....and I told them TWICE to save one for me. It is a great store but, this kind of made me mad.


Ben is Glory and Jonas is Nathan??

;)
Jonas, i've had that happen to me many times over the years. It's really annoying, especially when you have gone to the trouble to try and get a copy reserved. Luckily the place i currently get my comics from is a lot more reliable.
This comic has sold out of a lot of places so quickly. It was released on Wednesday and my shop here doesn't get new stock until Thursdays. I was panicking slightly that they wouldn't have any left but I was in luck.

It's a very good review. I like how he said Spike was a character first and a vampire second. Nice. :0)

I agree on the artwork too. While the first few pages of William, Cecily etc are totally excellent, some of the other frames were copies of stills and promo pics. There were excellently done but next time I hope they are more original. That is a tiny quibble on a really good read.

Loved the shout out to both Bela Lugosi and the cheeky Boris Karloff reference. LOL!
Well, I'm sure my opinion will be unpopular, but I was SO disappointed with this comic. I actually had to put it down halfway through because I was so disgusted with the artwork! Does this guy even know how to draw? I'd say a good 75% of the Spike drawings are directly lifted from promos or screencaps, and when they're not, you can really see the artist's weakness. And also, sometimes it's not just 'traced', but a scanned in picture. There are a lot of instances where Spike's hair is just his hair lifted from the picture, and once in a while the artist/colorist/whoever bothered to 'blur' it up a bit. It really looks like some photoshop filter over Spike pics. All this was so distracting that I could never get into the flow of the story, which I found weak anyway. I guess not to spoil anyone I'll do invisitext to point out two pretty big plot errors:

I know the editors can't be fans or knowledgeable of all the topics they put comics out on, but I'd like to think if the editor had been a Buffy/Angel fan, they wouldn't have let this get published with all the blatant picture lifting and plot errors.

Guh. With this, and the very disappointing new Angel comic...I'm finding the latest continuations of the 'verse less than pleasing. But like I said, I know I'm probably one of the few who were just really unhappy with this.
Personally I found the comic disappointing, but I am usually not impressed by comics without Joss' direct involvement. I thought the art looked like it had been photoshopped off of old Spike publicity photos, and the plot is full of holes which wouldn't matter if the end result was a really exciting story (to me, it wasn't).
I think I'll reread 'Serenity' #1 & #2 again.
RS The writer has already commented that the timeframe was a problem. He wasn't allowed to include anyone from Btvs even though the story was meant to be between OAFA and Entropy and showing a pre-soul Spike. He had to put him in LA, therefore implying that it is during S5 of Ats. But it wasn't meant to show an Ats souled Spike. It's confusing, but that's what he said.
Yeahh, count me among the dissappointed. The colorist here basically had to try and compensate for the rather crappy art. A lot of backgrounds are just pictures of streetshots or cityscapes photoshopped in. Come on, how cheap is that? Worse, most of the time Spike's hair is just an outline, with fragments of James' hair pasted in. The inking seriously looks like it was done by a 10 year old.

And I do appreciate the attempt at good likenesess (espcially since Dark Horse often didn't give a crap about it) but this isn't photoreferencing to help out, this is just a bunch of traced pictures with a weak outline that the colorist had to fill out and paste the same pictures fragments into! I honestly don't get what some editors are thinking.

The story was okay. Peter David has the same style of wit in his dialogue and I always liked the Cecily / Halfrek connection (that yes, Buffy writers, including Joss, have confirmed by now. Before anyone starts that up again)

Continuity slips here and there. They didn't run into each other on Dawn's birthday, but on Buffy's birthday. Tiny slip. Another thing though is that since Spike is in LA and is referring to bascially just having a day job of 'annoying someone' this can only take place in AtS S5, after Spike is coprorealized. But then Halfrek should be dead. Biig slip.

Some other boards have people trying to fit this into Buffy S6 or 7 but I'm not buying that. It being in LA and the 'annoying' reference leave no room for it being anywhere other than in Angel S5. Oh well, I suppose I like the thought that Hallie survived. (Although I have no idea how. Maybe D'Hoffryn pulled a cruel prank on Anya with some fireworks....?)

RS The writer has already commented that the timeframe was a problem. He wasn't allowed to include anyone from Btvs even though the story was meant to be between OAFA and Entropy and showing a pre-soul Spike. He had to put him in LA, therefore implying that it is during S5 of Ats. But it wasn't meant to show an Ats souled Spike. It's confusing, but that's what he said.

Ah okay, that explains that. But he did still use someone from Buffy. I mean, Halfrek was never on Angel. Man the split of the Angel/Buffy comic rights between DH and IDW must be harrowing for writers. As I said I just stick to saying that Halfrek survived...

Cute shout out to Bela, but this is one of those things where I get that the *writer* feels that way more than I can believe the character does. Just doesn't feel fitting to me that Spike would be that much of a Vampire movie fan, especially Dracula. He hates the real Drac and I can't see his reaction to the Count getting famous and vampires' secrets being spilled being anything other than irritation, especially old soulless Spike with Dru on his arm. But I'm sure others will disagree.

I did like it overall, PAD has a nice idea with a nice tone, but the art really, really messed it up for me. I can just trace pictures too but I doubt anyone would pay me for it.

(PS why does Spike change height in the panels where he and Hallie face off? That really shook me out of things. Did anyone edit this at all over at IDW??)

[ edited by EdDantes on 2005-08-29 17:06 ]
He wasn't allowed to include anyone from Btvs

Halfrek/Cecily is from Buffy. Never seen on Angel, to my recollection.

And I think he could have just set it in Sunnydale if he wanted to go for season 6. I'm sure Spike wasn't around the Scoobies 24-7. No need to move him to LA to have a little one-off. IMO, of course.
Ben is Glory and Jonas is Nathan??


Wait..Ben is Glory?

My local comic book store won't save it for me unless I have a credit card. Which I don't, so that means I can't buy it online and I have to wait until it stops selling out at the comic book store everytime they get a new shipment.
Wait... Halfrek is Cecily?

Seriously, can anyone refresh my memory about Cecily? This name does not ring any bell to me (or a very distant one which I can't properly hear)...
I'm pretty sure that the "no using the characters from Buffy" thing is only in relation to the main cast, rather than the recurring characters such as Halfrek. At least that is how i've always understood it anyway.

Le Comité, Cecily was the girl that Spike/William was in love with during the last days of his human life, first seen in the episode Fool For Love.
Hold on. You're saying Cecily is Halfrek?

I guess I'm easy to please. I liked it. I didn't luuurve it like Serenity but I enjoyed it. Some of the art was inconsistent, but it was much better than the current Angel. Obviously Joss didn't write it, but it wasn't THAT bad. I've seen much worse. At least I know I'm not crazy now about being confused by the time frame. It's too bad no one could come up with a better way around that issue, as it's a big deal for fans.

Old Times: C+
When PAD talks about not being able to use BtVS characters, he meant the core characters. Like the IDW and Dark Horse share of exclusive characters, is onto the main characters.
Like IDW, can't use Buffy, Xander, Dawn, Willow, Tara, Giles, or any other core Scooby.
While DH, can't use Angel, Fred, Cordy, Lorne or any other main Angel character.
But the supproting ones, as I've heard are somewhere in between. Halfrek / Cecily is somewhere in between. IDW books could probably use the new slayers if they need them, because they're in the "somewhere in between".
Thx Vampire With A Gun.
Stupid proprietary practices. All it does is hobble creatives.
Oh, and since the Serenity comic has been brought up, I thought this was a funny little Nathan-esque anecdote. Hubby and I were looking for Serenity 2 and could find it nowhere. We asked our little local comic store and the guy said that he was to get a new shipment this Weds. He then he proudly told us that they were selling the second printing of the first issue for 12 dollars, but then informed us that the second printing of the 2nd issue would be cover price. Why would he tell us that?? What are we supposed to say, "Wow, good on you for price gouging! And thanks for cutting us a 'deal' by only charging cover price..." Well, we're nowhere near as balsy as Nathan, so we just said, "Oh...ok."

Good lord, that reminds me that I haven't even read Serenity 1 yet...and it's sitting at home, so no excuses...Here's hoping the art is better than the Buffyverse efforts!
Rogue Slayer, I think the artwork in Serenity comics varies. Book is usually incredible. I also like Jayne, Zoe and Wash. I think Mal and Inara tend to look disfigued. River, Kaylee and Simon are so-so. Other characters are done well, but I don't want to spoil you if you haven't read it yet!
I guess the reviewer isn't much of a details-obsessed Buffy and/or Angel fan, otherwise he would've caught the inconsistencies.

I've liked what little I've read of Peter David's work (and I think I liked his two or three Babylon 5 episodes as well), but I don't think his explanation about the timeline making problems for him excuses the continuity mess-ups. If he knew going into this that he had some roadblocks, why not just find a way around them? Why couldn't Spike have talked to Cecily/Halfrek privately after Season 6's "Hell's Bells" or something? Does the IDW/Dark Horse rights split mean that no Angel or Angel-related characters can even set foot in Sunnydale? That's nuts (and if it's true, then just don't say it's Sunnydale. Could be any small California town they're meeting up in). Peter David's excuse is a weak one.

By the way, how's the current Angel mini-series going? Didn't its third issue come out the same day as this Spike one-shot last Wednesday? Will it be worth buying the collection for?

[ edited by Kris on 2005-08-29 19:08 ]
"He wasn't allowed to include anyone from Btvs

Halfrek/Cecily is from Buffy. Never seen on Angel, to my recollection.

And I think he could have just set it in Sunnydale if he wanted to go for season 6. I'm sure Spike wasn't around the Scoobies 24-7. No need to move him to LA to have a little one-off. IMO, of course.
Rogue Slayer | August 29, 17:06 CET "

In addition to other replies to this Halfrek/Cecily have never been used in a comic before to my knowledge, so whoever uses her first gets dibs I guess.

Back to the artwork, it's not that bad *rolleyes* and when you compare it to some of the artwork for these comics, I'm thinking Spike & Dru *shudders*, it's brilliant.

Buyer beware. Have a quick flick threw it and if it doesn't come up to you standard of drawing or colouring put it back on the shelf and save yourself the trauma and dollars. ;0)

Kris I'm enjoying the Angel comic series, although maybe you don't want to take my word as I obviously have low standards. LOL! It's okay, not brilliant, but I want more so I'm supporting it. There are some nice references to how much Angel loves Cordy and how her death is still an open wound for him. Also, a nice reference to Spike from Angel. *sniffle*
Stupid proprietary practices. All it does is hobble creatives.

Indeed. Reminds me of the days when BtVS and AtS were on the WB and UPN and that neither of them wanted to cooperate with crossovers much. They're in the same universe for pete's sake. There are numerous cross-over characters and their histories are thoroughly connected.

I noticed in the (so far rather mediocre) recent Angel comics that Buffy isn't named, and only shown from the back from a distance in a flashback panel. Cretinous legal hogwash.

Back to the artwork, it's not that bad *rolleyes* and when you compare it to some of the artwork for these comics, I'm thinking Spike & Dru *shudders*, it's brilliant.

That was indeed a horribly failed Mignola imitation but even compared to that this still stinks to high heaven to me. At least that other guy was capable of actually drawing his own backgrounds. This is traced promo pics and captures with photoshopped-in hair and cityscape pictures. Which is not what I expect when I pay money for a professional comic.
Buyer beware. Have a quick flick threw it and if it doesn't come up to you standard of drawing or colouring put it back on the shelf and save yourself the trauma and dollars. ;0)


Well, it's a collectors item, so I want to own it. And it's of my favorite character, so I wanted it to be good. I can't have both, unfortunately.

I do agree, however, the Spike and Dru comics were atrocious. Those were truly shudder worthy.
My god, I'm starting to think this EdDantes guy is stalking me!
No, Rogue Slayer, it's the Count of Monte Cristo, or maybe John Hughes.
I didn't care for it at first - it felt like bad fan fiction. But it eventually grew on me. And I did love that ending!

The art while kind of lame in its PhotoShopiness, didn't really bother me. While it certainly builds no respect for the artist, the end result is that Spike actually looks like Spike, which, let's face it, I enjoy.

So while I don't particularly respect the book, I did wind up enjoying it.
Jeeeeeez...I kinda liked it. I liked the artwork, because yes...Spike LOOKED like Spike, and I even liked the story. it was a little hard to place the timing, but then it was hard to place the exact timing for the Angel comic too. Still I didn't care. I bought these comics because I want to see more. I keep telling myself that this is a first attempt, and if we say we want more...maybe we will get it. I would love more for Spike in comic form, hell I want more Spike in any form and I will buy it. THAT is the message I want to get accross to the merchandising folks. GIVE ME MORE SPIKE....
I think the Angel second series may be better,and I will buy it too, but it is supposed to be post NFA. Maybe if Joss gives the OK for more stories post NFA we will see better time lines. I think someone said that Spike , Illy and 'parts' of Gunn survived so we should see them in the next mini. As for more one shots of Spike...bring them on, and then please give us a Spike mini series. I will buy it. I need to see my boy survived and I am curious about his FUTURE adventures.
I liked the artwork, because yes...Spike LOOKED like Spike,

Yeah, at first I was really excited because I thought, 'Wow, a guy who can really draw Spike, spitting image!' Then I saw 'why' it looked so much like Spike, and I kind of got irritated because I felt the artist 'cheated'. I think because hubby's an artist and I'm a comic fan that it hits me a bit harder than other folks. I don't feel this guy should be praised for his artistic talent when he's just using pictures. And not even just for reference, just ripping them off wholesale!...but I digress-ish.

As for more one shots of Spike...bring them on, and then please give us a Spike mini series. I will buy it. I need to see my boy survived and I am curious about his FUTURE adventures.

Yeah, regardless of how bad I think the art is, I'll buy them because I know what kind of message it sends to the PTB. And I too want to see what lies ahead for Spike.

So I bitch, but I buy.
Can IDW use Faith? I see her more as a BTVS character but she is featured in..humm...2 episodes Angel season 1 and 4(?) Season 4....
I'm almost certain that Faith is available to either of the publishers as she wasn't a regular in either series.

BTW, it was only three episodes in season 4 but she did make a cameo at the end of the first episode of season 2 of Angel (Judgment).
The story wasn't the greatest and there were a few continuity errors that made the timeline for the story confusing if you didn't already know going into it that it was supposed to be taking place during season six of Buffy, but I liked the characterization of Spike. He wasn't totally evil Spike, but he wasn't really a good guy either. His motives were his own, it had nothing to do with right or wrong. So, that aspect of it made me happy. If IDW produces more Spike stories, I'll buy them.
I hate to put my ignorance out on diplay for everyone to see, but can someone in the know give me some information? I realize that Joss isn't writing these, but does he have any kind of approval prior to release? Or, are the rights just sold and they can do any ol' thing they want? Not so much up on the comics. In fact, I have read absolutely none...

Although I've been a fan of the shows for ages, it hasn't been that long since I discovered like minded individuals existed out there. And even less time since I came out of lurker mode. So, please be gentle. I'm the first to admit I am woefully behind on the times.

I realize the opinions are mixed, but would the comics be worth both my time and money? Although, I love me some Spike; I don't want anything that can be thoroughly refuted by canon. Help. Opinions. Anything.
I think IDW is not allowed to do certain storylines that Joss wants to keep to himself, Rank Amateur. So Joss has some say in it.
I just finished the comic a short while ago and I have to admit I loved it. This Spike matched up pretty well with the Spike I saw in season 6 BTVS, and the Halfrek quibble I can easily overlook as it was an engaging fleshing out of a character done in a way I could easily imagine ME might have chosen. I may have no taste, but I can easily say it was the best 10 minutes of my day today:)
is it possible that d'hoffryn brought halfrek back to life after anya died???
I really liked it, thought it was far and away one of the best Buffyverse comics ever. I give it an A+.

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