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September 20 2005

A return to the Buffyverse is 'realistic' says Joss. Furthermore he thinks that a Spike TV movie is a "a good jumping off point".

Every time I read this stuff, I get a little more hope - especially when it is Joss himself and not hedging his bets (well, not too much, anyway!)

Then I realise he said "jumping off point", and realise that he could mean even more Buffyverse stuff, not just this one TV movie. Then I realise that I would take anything, just anything, from Joss in the B-verse. I miss that 'verse so much it hurts sometimes!

Even if that future has neither Buffy nor Angel nor Willow nor Xander nor ... nor... nor ...

Just anything and then the pain may recede!
And I go to class with a spring in my step. Thankee Simon.
Oh that was worth making myself late for work for!

I shall now be pondering on the exact meaning of " good jumping off point"

And I'm glad that Joss seems to be really working on this rather than just talking about it from time to time.

* woot*
Good news! The dream lives on.
Right there with ya, catalyst2!
These news did my day...but since I'm not born in America I do not understand what mean "Good jumping off point". Can someone explain it to me? Thank you
I think it could mean that the Spike TV movie would be the bridge from the end of Not Fade Away to a brand new Buffyverse show. Or alternatively, it could be the first in a series of TV movies. I'm thinking each (character) movie would be stand alone but there would be an overall plot arc.
thank you so much Simon
As more and more discussions come and go concerning this (these?) TV movie(s), I wonder if this is really good news for non-english speaking countries.

In france, for example, I am quite sure that the chances are weak that such a TV movie air one day; and if it airs, it will be with dubbed (very badly, probably).

That would not be a real problem if it was also available on DVD... but do such TV movies often appear on DVD?
You can bet your bottom Euro that 20th Century Fox would release a Buffyverse TV movie on DVD especially in Europe. They would be fools not to lose out on this source of revenue.
They would be fools not to lose out on this source of revenue.

I think a not crept in there where it wasn't wanted ;)
Wait a second. No mention of a "TV movie" but a "Movie"...

Best case scenario: he's talking two different projects; a big screen Spike movie, and a new buffyverse TV show.
Wait a second. No mention of a "TV movie" but a "Movie"...


Nope, the first sentence of the interview is quite clear:
revisit the "Buffyverse" in a future, unspecified TV project. "I think it's realistic," Whedon said

Having just seen James Marsters, I have to agree that he is working out! He even refused his birthday cake so he is doing what he he can! Oh, I hope this comes soon! It will be a long time between Serenity and Wonder Woman.
Joss, you keep working on it. We'll keep "making noise" for it on this end. :)
Besides, if it were in fact a big screen movie instead of a tv movie, we wouldn't have to settle for James Marsters as the lead and could have David Boreanaz as the centerpiece (if his Bones schedule would allow it, that is).
well I'm not settling for James Marsters as lead- I much prefer him to David Boreanaz! (but I'm not starting a fight, I know there are people who dissagree).

I walked away from this article going "oh yes james, keep working out!". lol.
You don't have to put down one actor just because you like another, Storyteller. James and David have always been generous with praise for each other, it's a pity their fans can't always reciprocate.

I'll be happy with whatever Joss/James/David provide in their various careers, together or apart.
we wouldn't have to settle for James Marsters as the lead and could have David Boreanaz as the centerpiece

I might be in the minority here, but I wouldn't feel James in the lead of a big screen movie would be 'settling', and as a matter of fact I'd prefer it to DB at this point. It's time for Spike to be the center of his own universe for once instead of being a satellite in others'.
You're not in the minority, Rogue Slayer! :)

The "good jumping off point" and "unspecified TV project" sound very promising. Hopefully, there is a Spike show in Whedon's mind.
I also don't think it would be "settling" to have James as the lead. Spike has had a huge arc on the show but he's never been the main character of a story and it would be great for that character to finally be in that role with the story focusing around him. And I love the idea of it being a "stepping stone" to other things. I hope this means that we could possibly have an Illyria/Fred based show. I loved that character and she was so new we hardly got to know her!
I agree with Rogue Slayer. Really, I think it's easy to gloss over the subtlety of James' performance as Spike in the face of such grandiose character turns and plot developments. I'm rewatching my favorite season once again (season six) and I'm being reminded most pleasantly of the gorgeous little nuances James brings to the role. A slight hitch of his voice, a glint in his eye, a tilt of his head. I think he did some of his best work ever opposite Sarah, regardless of your opinion on 'Spuffy'.
Jeeeeezzz if 'settling' for James Marsters is what I have to do to get a Spike movie...and maybe more...then PLEASE BRING IT ON. I guess I've been 'settling ' for him for the past 8 years, and I have no problem continuing.

Spike is the richest character in the whole Verse IMHO, and I think the most logical one to start the ball rolling.
Angel had his turn...Buffy too....let Spike's story continue now, and let him step front and center where he belongs. Keep working on those great abs James!!!!!!
No settling here. James is my first choice! Spike is the initial reason I got so hooked on the verse and everything Joss Whedon.
About a year ago it seemed like most of us were like "if Joss would return to Buffyverse" and now it is "When Joss returns to Buffyverse".
Think about this...how cool is that.

I have actually had a dream that a Spike TV show was announced and when I woke up I had to think really, really hard to figure out if it was a dream ro not.
Bring SPIKE back to the TV screen!!!
No settling here, either. I'd be the first in line to see it, even if it is on TV.

If a Whedon project focused on anotherer character it wouldn't be "settling," either. I would be just as up for an Illyria movie, or something centered around Faith, Connor, Giles, Gunn (if he's still alive) or even Andrew. I'd be all for a "bring back the dead" project, too, so we could have Wesley, Tara, Anya and Jonathan back in the verse.
How would people feel about a new Buffyverse series with a totally new cast (but with the occassional Buffy or Angel guest star)?
I think a new show with occasional Buffy and Angel stars would be great. It would cement the old shows' legend if it was successful. It would also be best way to free the writers while maintaining continuity and the storyline. However, I'm also one who would like to see Spike as the center of a movie.
I'd be all for that Simon if that's what Joss gives us. I know he would never do anything that wasn't any good and he'd have to have a really great idea to do it with.
How would people feel about a new Buffyverse series with a totally new cast (but with the occassional Buffy or Angel guest star)?

Just as happy as with any the other cast at this point I think. If you'd asked that question a year ago I'm sure I would've been more for a direct continuation, but now I just want more stories from our Boss (not Springsteen) in my favourite fictional universe. Joss has shown time and again his ability to introduce new characters with unknown actors and within no time at all have plenty of people proclaiming them to be their favourite character. Trust in Joss and he will deliver the goods.
Or how about a Fray show?

You could still bring in Spike and Angel (though now that I think about it, vampires were supposed to have all been eliminated, maybe vampires with a soul had a loophole). You could also bring in Illyria, as I don't think it's a stretch to say that even a fallen god could keep herself from aging. Willow could plausibly have done the same.

I can even see a couple of ways to bring in Buffy and/or Faith, if only for an episode or two.

How would people feel about a new Buffyverse series with a totally new cast (but with the occassional Buffy or Angel guest star)?


Strictly IMHO

1. Unrealistic. No channel will greenlight it.

2. Pointless. Old sandbox+new players - it's not how Whedon's mind works, I believe.

3. Audience-divisive: diehard fans will watch to find out what happened to their favorite characters while new audience won't give a damn about them. Hence, two totally opposite reactions. Not good.

[ edited by Moscow Watcher on 2005-09-20 18:27 ]
Sounds all good to me!

(Serenity departing in 2 hrs 56 mins)
I'm right there with you Moscow...in order to draw the fans back I think you need a familiar and very popular face and the way that Angel ended IMO begs for some continuation for a lot of fans.

In my mind the best scenario would be to do a series of movies or a mini series, but they could all have a connection that would spring board if you will into a new show. Then I would at least start the series with a few of your MOST popular characters and gradully add in new characters to keep the story going. It would also be a great platform to bring in guest spots for more old characters, and I am one fan who NEEDS to see my old favorites.

I fell in love with the Buffy Verse because of Spike, and I continued to watch Angel because Spike was going to be there.
I still think there is a lot left to tell of his story, and I'm sure many other fans have favorites too and want to see them.

A new show with all new faces from the git go will not really suck me in because I have NOTHING invested in these new characters. But give me a Spike movie, and a new show that still has Spike there and I will watch as long as it is aired. And over that time I will welcome new characters into the mix, as well as any of the old familiar faces who want to be involved.
Unrealistic. No channel will greenlight it.

Based on this logic, no new show based in the same type of world as a previous show would ever get greenlit. We have three CSI's and I lost count of how many Law and Orders. For genre, we had several different Star Treks and I'm pretty sure there's more than one StarGate. Hercules ... then Xena. Throw in a few familiar faces every now and then and I don't see why it has any less a chance of being greenlit than any of these shows.
I'll welcome anything Joss has to offer. For me, it's always been more about the ideas and the language than any specific character (although, obviously, I enjoy some characters more than others). Showing how different characters interact and spark, or rub each other the wrong way, is one of JW's great strengths, and I'm not fussed which characters, old or new, any forthcoming project brings.
Or how about a Fray show?

Fray would be too expensive as a TV show, what with all the flying cars. It would work better as a movie. Someone needs to ask Joss about that, because I really want to know if he wants to take Fray into film.

I'd be happy with anything Joss wants to do. New Buffyverse show with all new characters? Yes! I certainly ache to see an Illyria show (bring back Wes!), and tv movies featuring our favorite characters (Willow's story should have the Willow/Tara ending Joss really wanted), but all new characters and storylines would be very commpelling. Bring it on, Joss! Whatever you have up your sleave, I want it.
I 'd like to see some new characters but I need to know what happened to all my old favourites . Spike is a must for me , no settling here , James was in my opinion the finest actor on either series ( with Alexis Denisof coming in a close second) Having said that I loved the whole cast and cannot understand those who cannot be fans of one actor without knocking another. If David was up for an Angel film I'd be cheering.

but then I'd cheer virtually any return to my favourite 'verse.
The arguing in the thread brings the hope into focus. If we didn't really believe it's a possibility, I doubt the old grudges would be rearing their heads.

I put my vote in for Fray & for an entirely new verse show to boot. I loved Buffy, loved Angel more and Firefly best. Show us what's next, Joss, please.
I'm all for a Spike movie, which could include any of the other characters. Spike is my favourite character from the Buffy/Angel 'verse because he has so many facets to him. Every time I see him in Season 7, I cannot understand how James did not even get nominated for an Emmy. (Yes, I know it has to do with the genre, but really...!)

On the other hand, I trusted Joss enough to travel hours to see a preview screening of an unfinished movie, and was not disappointed, so whatever he wants to do, I'll be there.

I would love to see "Fray" as a movie, TV or big screen. Maybe after "Serenity" becomes the hit we are all hoping for, and "Wonder Woman" as well, a studio would greenlight "Fray" for a movie.

In the meantime, I'm counting down the days, minutes and seconds until next Friday and will then look forward to Joss's next project.
Sure a brand new cast all set in "Buffyverse" is cool with me. ...but I do want a Spike movie...or sow too :-)
Fray would make a fantastic subject for a film. I really want new Buffyverse stories on tv again. I miss watching it unfold from week to week. Joss has said that he creates ensemble casts where each character is meant to be strong enough to carry the show, and he does just that. I would be *thrilled* to see any character step up into the spotlight in a new series. I'm also curious to see what sort of tone and questions/messages a new series would carry.
Again, strictly IMHO

killinj
Based on this logic, no new show based in the same type of world as a previous show would ever get greenlit.


I think it largely depends on the "type of world". The more idiosincratic the type of world is, the less the chances to succeed in this world are.

We have three CSI's and I lost count of how many Law and Orders.


I don't think the term "type of world" could be applied to these shows. It's a sub-genre, IMHO.

For genre, we had several different Star Treks


Different Star Treks took place in different time-frames. Whedonverse-wise, this option automatically means Fray - and I don't think Simon's request for BtVSAtS guest-stars could be worked into Fray.

and I'm pretty sure there's more than one StarGate.


I haven't seen SG: Atlantis, but I watched first seasons of SG1 when they were aired in Russia and I've got the impression that it was a concept-based show, not a character-based show. Last year I occasionally saw a fresh episode of SG1 (I believe it was season 9 or 10) and the characters were still the same. I love the show but for me it was always about the plots. But in Jossverse it's primarily about characters. Putting together a totally new team in Buffyverse will create an effect similar to relocating SG1 team in the world of... well... Hercules. Or CSI.

Hercules ... then Xena.


Interesting that you mention Xena. Because it was a spinoff par excellence, not a new show based in the same type of world. Xena appeared in Hercules and became so popular that producers decided to give the character her own show.

Throw in a few familiar faces every now and then and I don't see why it has any less a chance of being greenlit than any of these shows.


Maybe. If anybody could devise a brilliant new show, it's Joss. I just don't see the necessity to connect new show to old characters. What for? Only to find out if they made it in that alley? Because I don't think it's a good idea to continue the journeys of fan favorites via occasional guest-spots in shows dedicated to other matters and other heroes.
Listen, at this point, if Joss wanted to do a Buffyverse show with finger puppets, I'd be grateful for it! And no doubt it would still be better than almost everything on tv with 50X the budget. And I'd bet the acting would be better, too.
I would only watch a show/movie with Spike, and now would be the perfect time to continue his story. He fought the good fight with Buffy, then with Angel, now it could be his lead(crossing thumbs).

(Edited for punctuation)

[ edited by SoddingNancyTribe on 2005-09-21 00:06 ]
I'm with you, SNT. Remember how folks grumbled when Joss stepped away from Sunnydale and L.A. to spend more time on his weird little spaceship western show? Seemed like a terrible idea to me at the time...

Sure, there's a part of me that would love to see what our old friends are up to, (and how their abs have held up in the off-season), but I'm most excited to see whatever television it is that wakes Joss in the middle of the night in an excited panic. Whether that be a Spike movie, a 'verse show with a new cast/premise, or *squee* something completely and deliciously new that none of us here could have ever even imagined... well, it all just sounds like heaven.
Different Star Treks took place in different time-frames. Whedonverse-wise, this option automatically means Fray - and I don't think Simon's request for BtVSAtS guest-stars could be worked into Fray.

No, it doesn't automatically mean Fray, it could take place anytime pre-Buffy or post-NFA. Heck, I could see it being about Dana the insane slayer which overlaps the timeline of the previous shows.

Interesting that you mention Xena. Because it was a spinoff par excellence, not a new show based in the same type of world. Xena appeared in Hercules and became so popular that producers decided to give the character her own show.

I've never watched much of either show, but they looked like they took place in the same type of world to me.

At any rate, that's not the point. You said flat out no network would greenlight a "Buffyverse" project with an all new cast. I just don't see the logic in such a pronouncement given networks' eagerness to take advantage of the cache derived from earlier shows with a loyal following. They've done it before, why wouldn't they do it again?

I can see arguing that its not as likely to be greenlit, but to flat out state that no channel would greenlight it is a rather extreme position for which I see little evidence to support.
This is really great news. Though I think I'll be stepping over all of the feuds in this thread, I would just like to say that all the actors in the Buffyverse were absolutely brilliant.

Anyway, to continue...

A Spike TV movie would be genius, especially after the disappointment of the recent Spike: Old Times graphic novel. The chemistry of the characters was there...just without the wit or the complexity. If we can get the wit and the chemistry back on board and with one of our Mutant Enemies doing the writing/directing duties, it'd be great. I really hope the tidbit earlier this month about Tim Minear is true; he's one extremely talented fella.

I am so glad that this is finally beginning to become more than rumor...

As for a new Buffyverse show, I was always fond of one certain possibility that kept being bandied about by fans in light of Buffy's cancellation. I'm not talking about Ripper or the animated series here--though both would be perfectly shiny--but the Watchers' Council series in which Andrew and Dawn find themselves recruiting the new Slayers and re-establishing the Council. This seems like a very promising concept to me, especially considering Andrew's guest spots during Angel S5.

Granted, it features two characters whom are on most Buffy fans' Death List Five--for no real reason, might I add--but the fans would come back for it, I know they would. Plus, talk about Giles guest spots. They would be almost a definite. Also, any other Buffyverse characters could fit into that premise.

I'm really wanting that to happen, but it's mostly just wishful thinking...
I could see it being about Dana the insane slayer which overlaps the timeline of the previous shows.


Agree - great premise. But Simon asked about new cast and Dana has already been introduced on AtS.

I can see arguing that its not as likely to be greenlit, but to flat out state that no channel would greenlight it is a rather extreme position for which I see little evidence to support.


As I said - IMHO.

I just find the idea contrary to Joss' writing style. I can easily see his show with a new premise, a new cast and *without* guest spots. Because usually such guest spots work only as marketing tools and they would bring nothing to characters development.

Joss is a master of long, carefully constucted storyarcs. Shoehorning character's journey into several scenes would be a waste and summing up character's journey isn't Joss' style - he loves to leave it open to audience's interpretation.

For example, I'd love to see Dana as part of Ripper spinoff. But I don't think a show about Dana and her new watcher should use Giles as ratings-boosting guest-star who helps them in one episode and then disappears again. The same with Spike and other characters.

I think I love them too much to say goodbye to them again :)
Yes, and I stated my own humble opinion of your opinion. ;)

Ah, since Dana wasn't a member of the regular cast, I would consider her new if she were brought on to another show.

Joss did cross-overs on Buffy/Angel and there propably would have been more if there wasn't that WB/UPN boundary. To me, having Andrew guest on AtS season 5 could hardly be called a marketing ploy and Joss found a way to fit it into the story. I see no reason to believe that if he were to bring in guest spots to a new series that he wouldn't likewise fit them into the story in an appropriate way. This is JOSS we're talking about.

I think I love them too much to say goodbye to them again :)

True, I can definately empathize with you there.
I would love to see Joyce return to the Buffyverse. I thought that she could have been a higher power in the Conversations with dead people episode. Even when the other characters were at their worst she would try to help or at least understand them. Plus,I thought the Spike&Joyce scenes had some of the greatest chemistry in Buffy.
I agree with you, SNT, except that I have a soft spot in my heart for the "Ripper" show idea. I'd have been in heaven if that had happened.
Joss did cross-overs on Buffy/Angel and there propably would have been more if there wasn't that WB/UPN boundary. To me, having Andrew guest on AtS season 5 could hardly be called a marketing ploy and Joss found a way to fit it into the story.


Playing devil's advocate here :)

Indeed, Andrew was great. But I want to remind about not-so-great crossovers. For example, much-hyped Angel crossover in Chosen - a person who has recently lost his son appears in Sunnydale and suddenly starts acting like jealous 12-year old. Or Willow in Orpheus, suddenly falling into high-school Willow mannerisms (although seeing AH and AD onscreen together was worth it).

I see no reason to believe that if he were to bring in guest spots to a new series that he wouldn't likewise fit them into the story in an appropriate way. This is JOSS we're talking about.


I hope so. I look forward to any continuation of Jossverse althouth I hope that Joss will employ his former regulars not only in guest spots.

(God, I can't believe we're really discussing REAL prospects of new Jossverse project! :)
What ever we get, it won't be what we expect.
But in Jossverse it's primarily about characters.

This is where we agree, and then disagree. It is always about the characters, and that's why the thought of an entirely new slate of characters in a new show is so tantalizing: Spike, Willow, Buffy, et al sprung from Joss and co's brain. What's to say he can't do that again with a whole different slate of actors and some hopefully returning writers, coming up with a show that will give us a whole new cast to love?

I mean, the original Scooby gang were great, but I didn't fall in love with Wes until he was on ATS and Illyria was introduced in the last half of the last season of the entire Buffyverse, and captured our imagination. And on Firefly, the characters all intrigued me after 14 episodes. I say a new gang would just give us more opportunities.
You know, for me, I don't care what Joss does. Spike? Angel? Buffy? Old gang/new gang, new 'verse/old 'verse - I don't care.

I don't care because, whatever it is, it will be good and I will watch.

This is, after all, Whedonesque, not Spike-esque, Angel-esque or Anyone-else-esque. The only common factor in anything that I like is Joss. Thereby, anything with Joss in, I watch!

Indeed, I am still eagerly anticipating the debut of Joss' long awaited haemorrhoid suppository ad!!!!
Although I would watch anything Joss does, I have to say I'm really happy that Spike, at least initially, will be the lead character. He's the one who got me watching regularly (Season 5) and, more than any other character, helped make me a Joss fan in the first place.

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