Ok, so for me it's Lost tonight, but can anyone give me (or point me to) a good synopsis of season one VM(keeping in mind that I totally have ADD :~P ) that might persuade me to overcome my vcr laziness to at least tape VM? Really, I want to like it. Someone, give me a reason. (Epis 1 and 2 weren't enough for me) Someone hook me. Grab me. Give me something to love again....please.

Rogue Slayer | September 28, 20:41 CET

Personally, Rogue Slayer, I *could* give you a synopsis, but it really wouldn't do anything for you if all you saw of the characters was in Epi. 1 & 2. Like Joss' shows, you really have to let the layers peel away.

pat32082 | September 28, 20:45 CET

Personally, Rogue Slayer, I *could* give you a synopsis, but it really wouldn't do anything for you if all you saw of the characters was in Epi. 1 & 2. Like Joss' shows, you really have to let the layers peel away

So the premise and plot aren't interesting enough to get someone watching? (All I know of it is that it's some high school gang that solves crimes, but I'm sure there's more to it)

I'll admit that I started with Buffy in season 2, and if I'd only seen season 1, I'd probably have never been hooked. Firefly, however, got me from episode one. So I know it can be done, it's just a very fine art.

Rogue Slayer | September 28, 20:48 CET

Yay! I can't wait for tonight! This is my most favorite show on TV. It's the only show since the Jossverse to make me really fall in love. I hear this season is going to be really good!

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-09-28 18:50 ]

electricspacegirl | September 28, 20:50 CET

No, the plot is very interesting. But the plot is almost dependent upon your becoming invested in the characters, as they're all involved in the larger mystery of Lilly Kane's murder in some form, and seeing them grow and change as a result of that, is the driving force of the season.

It's an unravelling "Whodunit?" plot with mysteries of the week as B-stories, and every episode you learn some new clue, or there's some revelation, which makes for a very engaging experience, but you really do have to like (failing that, just get to know) the characters.

And to do that, there's no substitute for watching the episodes.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2005-09-28 18:55 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2005-09-28 18:57 ]

pat32082 | September 28, 20:51 CET

Ditto, not sure anything else needs to be said :)

Paul_Rocks | September 28, 20:56 CET

I am hoping and praying to well, anyone, that season two comes to Canada. The CTV site has been very vague about this. Grrr.

Danica | September 28, 20:58 CET

I just hope the show doesn't get cheapened by an "America's next top model" being on it. Maybe that's why they're going for cameos by cult favorites like Joss and Kevin Smith - to compensate for the compromises they've had to make with UPN execs.

I was skeptical about the show, but it grew on me, especially with some of the quirky character episodes and sly references to literary and pop culture throughout. Of all the season premiers, this is the one I'm looking forward to the most - and I am high school age 3 times over!

Nebula1400 | September 28, 21:02 CET

I wish the DVD's were out already so I could catch up before the premiere.

optimistic34 | September 28, 21:09 CET

Rouge Slayer, I'd love to be able to hook you up with the perfect summary of the first season that would be both succinct and caputure your interest, but I'm coming up short right now. Try this article for a nice overview of what's special about VM. There's also Mars Investigations, a fan run website that has gobs of information about the plot and storylines.

And for a good-old-fashioned clip show, the UPN video page has a long, long season one recap. It's not the greatest, but it does give you an idea about the general mystery of the week plots and the snappy one-liners. Major, major spoilers.

The premise and plot, much like Buffy, are hard to explain and really get to the heart of what the show is about. Girl is chosen to fight vampires = pure cheese. Girl is investigating her best friend's murder after being ostracized by all of her old friends = overdone cheese. There's great characters (as you've heard many times), tight plotting, snappy writing, excellent continuity, and tons of angst. I hope this helps.

Prosperina | September 28, 21:16 CET

Yes, optimistic34! It seems only logical: release the DVDs, let word and buzz spread a la Firefly, and promote the new season premiere like crazy. Does someone else who has more insight into the industry know why this isn't done??

Ronald_SF | September 28, 21:18 CET

Rogue Slayer, how about "Joss likes it." Best endorsement I can think of, really.

I was hooked from the first episode, but, not from anything I can specifically point to, except, maybe, Kirsten Bell herself. But, the love does grow over time.

k8cre8 | September 28, 21:19 CET

Prosperina said it better than me. ;-)

pat32082 | September 28, 21:22 CET

How about this for a quickie description, Rogue Slayer: Nancy Drew Mysteries meets Roman Polanski's Chinatown. Quick-witted teen detective solves mysteries set in a California town pustulating with dark secrets, greed, and corruption. Teen hero Veronica, best friend/sidekick Wallace, lost love Duncan, bad boy/lost boy/ potential love interest Logan and outlaw biker Weevil find themsevles neck deep in the slime their parents created. Filled with complex plots, and Whedon-like witty dialogue. ESSENTIAL VIEWING.

cjl | September 28, 21:37 CET

cji - Perfect re-cap.

angel fan | September 28, 22:02 CET

Rogue Slayer, I don't think I'd describe it as a high school gang that solves crimes. Also, I'm among those that was mildly interested after the first few eps, watched sporadically after that, and then *really* became engrossed by the last third of the season.
What made it worth watching by me? Fabulous characters that got deeper as the season went on, and had good, consistent growth. Plots that were rarely predictable, and weren't afraid to shy away from pain and tough outcomes. Some great acting, especially by Kristin Bell and the guy who plays her father. Sublayers of mysteries and relationships that kept going deeper, and yet didn't drag you along with no hope of resolution the way some shows (ahem *Lost* ahem) tend to do.
The mysteries of the week are somewhat akin to the monsters of the week on buffy - quite often entertaining, but rarely what you tune in for. What really kept it going was the characters, the changing relationships between them, and the long-running myseries/plots of the show: Who raped Veronica, where her mother was, what her relationship was to her father (and ex-boyfriend Duncan), her changing relationship with friend-turned-enemy Logan, and, of course, who killed Lily Kane.

It's fabulous writing and great, angst-filled plot lines. I've never found the comparisons to Buffy particularly useful - and I think it can stand on its own merits - but perhaps the one element both shows really do share is a sense of high school as a place of pain and intensity – with exaggerated plots to show how it often feels to those going through teenage-dom.

Can't wait for tonight's premier! I'll be taping Lost, but VM i want to see in real time.

acp | September 28, 22:02 CET

No, k8cre8, Joss LOVES it. And as good as the writing is, I think the secret weapon is Kristen Bell. She is so good. She can do it all.

RogueSlayer, I do think the video recap should give you a pretty good, if not very fleshed out, sense of the show. And it's spoiler-free.

In closing, how can you not love a show that says:
"Wang Chung or I'll kick your ass!"

jam2 | September 28, 22:04 CET

jam2. Well, yeah. But, even if Joss only *liked* it. It's still be a huge endorsement. Kristen Bell's awesome. You're absotively right about her.

k8cre8 | September 28, 22:12 CET

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but some UPN stations (including mine in Sacramento) are starting to repeat VM episodes during the weekend including the new stuff, so that we can see this show and Lost with a clear conscience. I think that was mentioned in the TV Gal column in Zap2It.com. I'll probably go that route.

impalergeneral | September 28, 22:12 CET

God. Veronica Mars today, and Serenity day after tomorrow?

I have one word for this week.

"Squeeeeeeeeee!"

Emma Frost | September 28, 22:14 CET

I would suggest that people who may be interested in watching VM and are fans of Lost(which I hate by the way) tape Lost and watch VM as it needs the ratings

penni | September 28, 22:18 CET

penni, that is likely what I'll do. With CC, AH, and JW in VM this season, I guess I really have to watch. For a variety of reasons, I came and went in my watching last season, never building up any momentum, and I finally stopped watching. So I'll undoubtedly be lost initially.

palehorse | September 28, 22:33 CET

How about this for a quickie description, Rogue Slayer: Nancy Drew Mysteries meets Roman Polanski's Chinatown. Quick-witted teen detective solves mysteries set in a California town pustulating with dark secrets, greed, and corruption. Teen hero Veronica, best friend/sidekick Wallace, lost love Duncan, bad boy/lost boy/ potential love interest Logan and outlaw biker Weevil find themsevles neck deep in the slime their parents created. Filled with complex plots, and Whedon-like witty dialogue. ESSENTIAL VIEWING.

Pustulating and a guy named Weevil. I should watch for those things alone! :~P Thanks for the rundown.

Prosperina

Thanks so much for the resources, I'm going to go check them out!

Rogue Slayer, how about "Joss likes it." Best endorsement I can think of, really.


I know! That's why I want to like it!! Joss can't be wrong.

Rogue Slayer | September 28, 22:38 CET

The one show I Shall Not Miss. I'm taping it and sending it to a friend in the Katrina zone in Mississippi (as well as sending her my Veronica Mars DVD set when it arrives.)

BTW, on a "Mutant Enemy Alumni" on other shows topic, I noticed David Greenwalt's name as "Consulting Producer" on Surface (NBC's entry in the "alien invasion" race.)

bookrats | September 28, 22:38 CET

Veronica Mars tonight and Serenity on Friday (and Neil Gaiman on Thursday, but that's another story). Holy crap, my adrenaline is working overtime this week.

Rogue Slayer, all I can add is...just trust us. It's a show that's very much worth getting to know. I think I mentioned before that I turned off the pilot my first time through. But I was hooked on my second attempt, and watched the entire series in three days. I literally, physically could not stop. No, it's not perfect, but it's smart, tight, and compelling.

Samantha | September 28, 22:42 CET

Maybe jumping into the second season will work, since it worked with Buffy. I've never wanted to like a show more than this one. I hope I'm a Veroniconvert soon!

Rogue Slayer | September 28, 22:45 CET

I want to agree with everyone having heart palpatations over the Veronica Mars premiere followed swiftly by Serenity. Talk about emotional overload! And add to the drama the fact that both need to succeed on at least a modest level in order to continue. VM needs decent ratings to graduate from UPN's benevolence to an actual ratings winner, while Serenity needs to prove that it can attract an audience. It's enough to drive a girl back to being a nailbiter.

Prosperina | September 28, 23:03 CET

I feel so alone - I watched 4 eps of VM and didn't like it. I don't understand the hub bub. It's a teen soap opera, I'm confused by all of you and by Joss too.

Succatash | September 28, 23:16 CET

Rogue Slayer, listen -- if you liked Giles' relationship to the Scoobies, and to Buffy in particular, as a father figure among other things, you will like Veronica's relationship with her father, Keith (played so wonderfully by Enrico Colantoni of 'Just Shoot Me!' and 'Galaxy Quest' fame).

Their relationship with all its twists and turns and deep emotions over the whole season is what really made me love the show instead of just liking it.

chickenbird | September 28, 23:19 CET

Succatash, four eps is not nearly enough to grow to love VM. Hell, twelve episodes was not enough to get me to love Buffy. S1 of BtVS was kind of weak compared to later seasons, but I kept with it and it paid off SO much (except for 'Bad Eggs'). Same with VM -- as someone else said, it really kicks in about 2/3 of the way through the season, but you really have to watch it all in order to reach a full emotional commitment to (and love of) the characters.

chickenbird | September 28, 23:24 CET

as someone else said, it really kicks in about 2/3 of the way through the season, but you really have to watch it all in order to reach a full emotional commitment to (and love of) the characters.

My problem is I'm not sure that I want to be bored by the majority of a show waiting for it to kick in. I think I'm going to jump in season 2 headfirst(the resources did help to make it a bit clear what's going on) and then maybe go back for season 1 if I find I'm interested. Then I can probably tolerate the boredom a bit more, if I already know for myself it's going to pay off in the end!

Rogue Slayer | September 28, 23:54 CET

Veronica Mars definitely takes a while to get into, but it's worth it, really looking forward to this season.

Not sure how I'd recommend getting into it, I didn't start watching it till a few months ago, I had the first 16 episodes when I started to watch it, and kept watching it 'cos it would have been a waste of time to give up after one episode (though I considered it when Paris Hilton guested), once you get into the story and get to know the characters it's completely worth it, I sat fixed on the screen for the last few episodes, I remember watching the penultimate episode on my laptop on a bus home from Uni and gasping (not hugely loud) "noo" when something was revealed (can't remember what).

If possible I'd recommend taping tonights the next few weeks and perhaps renting the DVD when it comes out.

Hope some of the high ratings it got on CBS carry over to these new episodes.

And anyway, Joss loves Veronica, what more do you need, they should put that on the back of the box, no need for blurb or anything.

Ghost Spike | September 29, 00:18 CET

I'm kind of surprised at how many people here keep saying it takes a ton of episodes to get hooked; I started watching on the second episode, and even Paris Hilton couldn't bring the show down for me. After watching Veronica and her dad doing their bad-cop-good-cop routine with the hotel manager, I was in love.

The characters are unbelievably well-crafted, the writing is snappy, the acting is amazing, the mysteries are fun to try to solve. The relationships on the show are remarkably subtle; I think it's far from being a "teen soap" just for that reason. The acting on the show is great enough that the scripts can get away with being subtle in leaving the character's emotions unspoken, so you never feel like you're being beaten over the head or the show is being dumbed down. Also, because all of those separate aspects of the show carry their own weight, the show really has never had a "bad" episode, which really can't be said for many shows coming right out of the gate. Some weeks the B-plot mystery weren't as good as others, some weeks were low on new information on the Lilly case, but the characters are so enjoyable that I can pretty much enjoy watching them do anything.

And personally, I really hated the way the season-long mystery was resolved in the end (though I seem to be in the minority on that point, I thought everything about the way the storyline was resolved was deeply idiotic), but despite feeling let down after a season-long build up, I still thought the finale was stellar. The character's interactions were so good and paid off so well.

meimi | September 29, 01:08 CET

I will give it another chance tonight. To compare it with Buffy: There were many many times when the teen soap opera in Buffy made me roll my eyes, but it was always saved by the kung fu, the demons, witch craft - or was I watching Buffy for the wrong reasons? With VM, I only remember an angry girl trying to figure out who put something in her locker, who slept with her that night at the party.... and I yawn. Yes, I yawn. But I will try again because I do trust you people.

Succatash | September 29, 02:05 CET

I fell in love with Veronica in the first episode. I never found the episodes to be boring or anything like that. Apparently it takes some people longer to get engrossed in the characters. Watching all the episodes does have an emotional payoff, and to anyone who has watched a couple episodes and still can't get into it, I suggest you just keep watching. It gets so much better.

electricspacegirl | September 29, 02:12 CET

I used to feel like Succatash. I tried to like it but one or two episodes couldn't get me into it and I was shocked to read all of the enormous praise posts here....

Until...I happened to catch the second-to-last episode a few weeks ago. What a revelation!!! Then, I saw the S1 finale, and WOW! I am more excited about the new season tonight than ANYTHING else on TV!

Rogue Slayer, I'm betting that you will be able to jump right in to S2.

SaltyGoodness | September 29, 02:27 CET

Lost in the wilderness up here... no UPN programming available. I'll have to wait for the dvds, darnit.

looking | September 29, 03:37 CET

Noooooooo! I knew I should have watched VM instead of (trying to) tape it while watching Lost. Somehow my VCR screwed up (or was it the operator?). Luckily, I noticed it's on the schedule for Saturday at 6pm (is that great or what?); just hope sports or some such doesn't preempt it.

spikeangellover | September 29, 08:08 CET

if you liked Giles' relationship to the Scoobies, and to Buffy in particular, as a father figure among other things, you will like Veronica's relationship with her father, Keith (played so wonderfully by Enrico Colantoni of 'Just Shoot Me!' and 'Galaxy Quest' fame).

Yeah, I want to like that, but you know... ASH = hot, Colantoni = not.

[ edited by Caroline on 2005-09-29 08:44 ]

Caroline | September 29, 10:44 CET

Don't know if anyone's going to see this comment since the thread fell off the front (arrgh) within like 14hrs or so, but here goes (might throw this in on newly discovered whedonesque.org): We in Canada are so far behind US broadcoasts -- that the finale is skedded for Oct. 9. However, through the magic of friends, I just saw the last four episodes. Unbelievable! Television! More drama amd emotion in one VM ep than in four or five episodes of any other show. I, too, didn't get hooked by the show at the beginning, lost touch and caught up again halfway through the season. (Thanks CTV!)

I've got first ep of S2 in hand now, so here I go . . . (No more commentary since it's probably a waste anyway.)

Drifter | September 29, 10:54 CET

Drifter, there's a VM thread going on over at Whedonesque.org... I thought about posting here too, but couldn't believe how quickly the thread had gone off the main page.

acp | September 29, 15:40 CET