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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Vengeance is what I am."
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October 05 2005

(SPOILER) Devin promises to eat his words. CHUD responds to some browncoat mail.

Gossi gets his letter to Devin answered.

Hmmm. I have yet to experience these 'hardcore Browncoats" but they are certainly generating some reaction! And was that guy for real about Buffy (what a take out - hot chicks, lesbianism, and vampires, I can see why he likes Deuce Bigalow!) Now that's creepy IMO.
Please put a spoiler tag in there. Thanks to you, I got spoiled within the first question itself. :(
So now Devin thinks Whedonesque is Gossi's site?

Anyway, can this be over now? I'm going to be away for a few days and when I return I wish for some peace and quiet in this 'verse.

Just let it run off our frontpage and be done with it.
No, Caroline. At least he shouldn't. I think he's refering to to the fact I said his first article was shit work (which I stand by - the one which kicked all this off was poor - later ones have been good IMHO).

I think it's probably quite obvious this site has nothing to do with me, given my lack of Boldy colours and such.

I think the problem is I mentioned Whedonesque in that email, so the other people who've given him hassle (or what he defines as hassle) have been lumped in with me.
Yes, thank you Caroline. I think all this stuff is just adding fuel to the fire, and nothing positive seems be coming from it.

This is supposed to be a happy time in the 'verse. We got our BDM and no matter how it does at the box office and no matter if we get a sequel or not and no matter what other folk think of it, we still win because it was never supposed to happen in the first place.

[ edited by Spikecam21 on 2005-10-05 15:48 ]
The whole Devin/Browncoats thing is boring me to tears. Let's give it a merciful death and move on.
Well the Browncoats didn't throw in the towel when Firefly was canceled, so why would we throw in the towel when Serenity gets a respectable $10 mil on its opening weekend?

I would have to say that I'm pretty sure we will be seeing more Firefly/Serenity either at the Cinema, or on DVD, or maybe even on TV.

Firefly/Serenity has a dedicated army of supporters and last weekend was only the very beginning of a long campaign. If the wider audience doesn’t find Serenity at the cinema then it will find Firefly/Serenity on DVD.

We all know that Firefly/Serenity is destined for success, it is just a matter of when, if not in the weeks to come, then most definitely on DVD. There is no reason why all the guerilla marketing we did for Firefly wouldn't work for Serenity on DVD.

If Devin is estimating a total of $30 mil in the USA, then how much more do we really need to get to that magic number. It’s quite possible that Serenity could make even more on DVD than it did at the Cinema and we shouldn’t forget those extra Firefly DVDs that will be sold in the wake of Serenity's DVD release.

I think Devin has clearly underestimated, the dedication of the Browncoats, the quality of Firefly/Serenity and the determination of Joss Whedon and our Big Dam Heros.
Actually, Devin's remark about "Land of the Dead" and "Serenity" switching release dates is a good call. I, too, think it would have really helped both films. (Although, I still feel April was the absolute best time to release "Serenity" ... back when people were jonesing for some good sci-fi while waiting for "Revenge of the Sith.")
The trouble with April is that the hype for Star Wars 3 would have probably killed Serenity in terms of press coverage.
Eh. It's not like "Serenity" was scoring tons of magazine covers or major features anyway. Hell, in my city paper, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, "The Greatest Game Every Played" got the lead A&E feature last Friday, while "Serenity" was relegated to the two hole.

Besides, back in 1999, a lack of press coverage sure didn't hurt "The Matrix," opening a month before "The Phantom Menace."
Pfff, this is tiring. Yes, extreme browncoat reactions are embarassing. But I don't think there's even one fandom that doesn't have it's share of extremist behaviour.

Ah well, let's just hope this anti-browncoat storm blows over and we can get back to business as usual.
Yes, I agree with that sentiment of going back to business as usual. And on that score, is it right to call this an anti-browncoat "storm"? Perhaps we're giving too much credibility to the opinions of a few individuals who happen to have websites or who have nothing better to do than to put other people down? Maybe we too are guilty of overblowing the actions of a small minority?

[ edited by Ronald_SF on 2005-10-05 14:03 ]
Spikecam21 and Caroline: Hear, Hear!
I have yet to meet one of these "uber-browncoats" that run around terrorizing people with Joss Whedon praise. I also don't like that of the paltry two letters from fans disagreeing with him, the first one tries to paint us as immature freaks. Emails like that are received all the time and should be ignored, not held up as proof of a group's "rampant fanaticism."
Here's a warning in advance, though: I plan to have another editorial next week.

Devin must need to pay for a car or something. Seriously, lets let this die, the surge in ad impressions is giving him mahogany.
Did The Matrix not get much promotion in the States? I saw it in Australia (was living in Asia for two years and on vacation) and went to see it. There was a lot of hype about it there, packed theater, etc. Anyway, the different marketing strategies in different countries are interesting. I'm still wishing we had tubes with banners here. :)
Ronald_SF: Yep, we might be overblowing the reactions of a small number of people as well, you're right. Maybe we shouldn't even pay this any attention anymore.

In that respect, I guess I agree with zeitgeist. Ignore the whole thing and let it die.
Devin must be *loving* this controversy and the continued links from whedonesque to his editorials. He's getting free and fabulous advertising. And it's not over! The crazy pot keeps getting stirred and we've got another editorial to look forward to. I agree with those who wish this would just die already.
Would suggest we avoid even linking next week's editorial. I say this for Devin's health as the priapism caused by the soaring ad revenue could endanger him.
I still find it hard to believe that there are enough of these obnoxious Browncoats to make as big a difference as Devin claims. Yes, I'm sure its put off a lot of people who visit AICN or other sites that have been canvassed alot with news and praise for Serenity. But, the number of people who visit those sites and read those threads are no where near representative of the general SCI-FI population. Honestly, I think the biggest problem with Serenity is that people (outside the Internet junkies) haven't heard of the film and don't know what it's about. No doubt, he has some valid critisms and we've got some loonie fans. I just think more of the article should have focused on the other explanations (and he provide some) for why the box office didn't meet expectations.
Fandom is a funny thing, I agree. You know who scares me? Tori Amos fans. You know the ones I mean, with the fairy wings and the sobbing on the floors of concert halls. But I like Tori, and I would never avoid her shows out of spite, or to shelter my poor, delicate sensibilities from her fans. That is a million times more obnoxious than the overly enthusiastic fans themselves. And Trekkies? I don't get it. I've never been a fan of Star Trek (any of them), and I don't understand the love affair. I'm worried about their taste. And yet I see their shows because I'm curious. Because I might be missing something.

All I can say is grow up. If there are seriously people who willfully ignore great art just because they're so much more evolved than the already established fans of that art, well, that's just monumentally stupid. I feel like I'm watching this whole thing, shaking my head in awe. Why is this an issue?

PS: Nutjobs who send hate mail to critics are, of course, bat sh*t crazy and do not have my sympathy.

[ edited by Samantha on 2006-02-16 20:31 ]
No one would have read this if it hadn't been posted here to begin with. Seriously, if I want to sell a lot of books, I'm going to call it, "Browncoats Smell Like Poo." It will fly off the shelves.

He's like a little kid who learned how to get attention by lighting things on fire.
Damn, Allyson! I was just going to say the same thing!

Frankly, I never go to CHUD unless there is a link from here, so this guy never even existed to me, and I am perfectly happy to go back to that previous knowledge.
The anti-browncoat stuff continues to befuddle me as well -- while we attended the screening with nearly a dozen folks clad in "Joss is my leader now" folks, I didn't see a single person clad in a long brown coat, a very fine hat, or a very very high collared shirt.

However, at the self-same movie theater just a few months ago, I did have a man in a shoddy little Darth Vader costume ask "Hey ladies, which of you wants to meet *my* dark side?"

How in the world would a few folks in Property of Jaynestown and Joss is my Leader Now shirts be more of a turnoff than the swashbuckling misogynists I met at Revenge of the Sith?
He's like a little kid who learned how to get attention by lighting things on fire.

The most apt description I've head so far.

And he plans on writing yet more about this?? Yes, where DO we get the idea that he's gathering attention for his site? We must be paranoid. I'm sure if Serenity doesn't do well, we'll get another one of those pleasant 'toldyouso, toldyouso' pieces he seems so fond of writing. And is it me or does he truly enjoy the whole "Poor truthsayer me is under siege! Woe!" -thing he's putting out there?

My only thing is that of the people who write him, between the name-calling Browncoats and the guys saying things like "good fucking job dude" I don't know who sounds dumber. Or who I like less.....
I also agree completely that this just seems like him screaming for attention. It has gotten extremely old. I also don't even go to CHUD without an outside link - and clearly Devon is now just soaking up the gravy with his bisquit even more.

It's really sad and pathetic and more then a little bit of a trixsy propoganda he has started amoungst us. I think he's so proud that he keeps getting linked and written that he just keeps dishing it out. Direct links lead to more CHUD hits. They want that, even if people go nowhere else. Mail makes him feel important - so ignore him. Just like you would anyone going around in circles spewing word vomit.
There really is something sinister going on here folkes and you are ALL missing the point. Devin is missing the point too. It's all so clear to me and should be quite clear to the rest of our whedonesque readers.

Ben IS in fact Glory.

Now can someone just communicate this vital fact to Devin?
How difficult is it to achieve a less than 30% drop-off? What is the typical drop-off for any film?
I haven't read this latest installment in the Devin/Browncoats soap opera and I'm not going to, but as a sometime visitor to the Chud site and forums, I'd guess that most of Devin's animosity is based on his experience with the Chud forum's posters. Like the AICN crowd, it is a contentious bunch of people who love to hurl insults at each other all the livelong day. Chud forums are not the place for well-reasoned arguments and civilized debate.

For reasons I've yet to fathom, the Joss haters there can't seem to find something better to do than post in Joss threads about how terrible he is based on their viewings of 2 episodes of BtVS/AtS/Firefly. And it incenses them to see anybody praise Joss or post news about his work. So, what do the Joss fans there do? They post constantly about Joss and his work. It's a vicious circle, possibly even viscous.

Best to ignore the kerfuffle, move it along, nothing to see here.
I'd rather this didn't turn into a pissing contest, so keep your views on Devin to yourself.
Normally, films will drop off 40 to 50 percent in their second weekend. Anything less is great. Anything more is a problem. However, genre films -- especially sci-fi and horror -- typically drop off more than 50 percent because the fanboys, the target audience for those movies, always turn out the first few days.
My last box office theory but I haven't seen anyone mention 'Sky Captain & the World of Tomorrow' yet. Big Sci-fi film (with actual stars) that came out last September and opened at about the exact same number as Serenity. Maybe September is just a really bad time to release a Sci-fi film.

This is really all about marketing and has little to nothing to do with Browncoats either way. All this stuff at CHUD & AICN is kinda ridiculous. Even if the over-the-top Browncoats turned off a few thousand posters over a Harry's, it's still only going to alter the box office a few hundred thousand dollars here or there. I just don't see this as a major issue outside of something for fandom to post about (see above)

[ edited by Unitas on 2005-10-05 18:51 ]
Caroline, Simon or SNT,

Is it time to put a temporary front page post that says something like "No more dissing/pissing/whining about". We don't do that here and such posts will be deleted.

I think I'd rather just focus my energy on going to see the movie a couple of more times.
As Zeitgeist said:

Would suggest we avoid even linking next week's editorial. I say this for Devin's health as the priapism caused by the soaring ad revenue could endanger him.

I totally agree. Can we please NOT link this one? It's getting old and tiring and just annoying. We should be out dancing in the streets not licking our wounds.
I hope no one was taking my ben is glory as a snipe. I was just trying to redirect our energy to one of whedonesque's favorite past times. Perhaps that is a former favorite pasttime these days.
dcubed - which theater did you see it at? I am thinking of heading over to Belmar - reports from the MilehiBrowncoats said that was a great theater to see it in.
Is it time to put a temporary front page post that says something like "No more dissing/pissing/whining about".

I've got a better idea. How about putting up a line that says "No more links to CHUD's articles where Devin's dissing/pissing/whining about Browncoats".

I'm with zeitgeist. Let's stop linking to this guy, at least on this topic. CHUD also has decent articles or at least good interviews sometimes. But right now he's just using us for free publicity. No more links, please. Excellent way to stop talking about it.
ruthless1, Cinemark off of Powers down in the Springs. That's the closest, non-mall theater to where we live.

While I agree that Devin's article was a problem, I think saying "we're not going to link to you anymore" is a bit childish. All I was proposing was that we stick the Whedonesque rules...
While I agree that Devin's article was a problem, I think saying "we're not going to link to you anymore" is a bit childish. All I was proposing was that we stick the Whedonesque rules...

Hence my line of: "Let's stop linking to this guy, at least on this topic. CHUD also has decent articles or at least good interviews sometimes." I wasn't quite calling for an all-out boycott on CHUD simply out of prissiness or 'childishness' if you notice. Devin himself is perpetuating this as much as anyone (for which I believe he has some ulterior motives of publicity) and everything on the topic has probably been said by now.

Also if links to him on this topic continue, most people here will continue to disagree with him since I don't see any party suddenly changing their minds on any of this. Of course if any disagreement with him is instantly condemned as 'dissing', 'pissing', and 'whining', as you suggest, the theoretically ideal result would basically be a link with almost no one posting.

What is the point? He's said his piece. Many, many others have said theirs. The rest is rehashing and it's not uncommon for links here to be deleted because there's no new information in it. I'd say this qualifies. So on *this topic* yes, I would be very okay with no more CHUD links.

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