Top 10 Angel is also on there.

holycow | October 08, 08:33 CET

No Becoming part one or two. Personaly Becoming part one is my favorite ep. And in terms of BBB, I think as a Xander centric episode The Zeppo is better. But I'd rather have The Wish ahead of those two anyday.

[ edited by Richard The 3rd on 2005-10-08 06:58 ]

Richard The 3rd | October 08, 08:42 CET

yeah not liking these lists..... The buffy one i more or less agree with except for the exclusions of becoming and graduation day (I would also sub Lies my parents told me for Conversations with dead people, but to each his own), the angel list on the other hand.....wow, no sleep tight, apocalypse nowish, or deep down.....that's just not right.

400lb_Gorilla | October 08, 08:49 CET

Well, every fan's top ten will differ from the next due to how we relate to BtVS and AtS in our hearts. I think that was the idea in Joss' master plan of both series. Good insight from the author on these top ten lists.

Madhatter | October 08, 09:31 CET

Both are really, really bad lists, especially the ANGEL one. But then again that's just my opinion..

Fear the Puppet | October 08, 09:32 CET

That biography is horrible! It doesn't mention the Immortal at all! =)

kishi | October 08, 09:50 CET

I agree with the Angels but not in that order. The Buffys, hardly at all.

charisma | October 08, 10:31 CET

I think with Buffy's we should've seen Restless in there. I love that episode, its creepy, mysterious, smart, and rather poetic and i hate poetry. but i loved this. I for one love anything that tells me te story of the Slayers myth and I love the final shot with Buffy looking into her room "You think you know....". Perfect.

ChosenOne5376 | October 08, 10:46 CET

Restless and The Body and Chosen and all those "special" episodes should be in a special category. I was a bit surprised, but pleased to find my top Buffy episode there: Lies my parents told me.

annosuperstar | October 08, 11:04 CET

I was just thinking the same thing, ChosenOne. Restless is my favorite Buffy episode because it's artsy and it's a character study of the core four.

Best Buffys and Favorite Buffys are two different lists for me. Hush, Restless, OMwF, The Body, The Gift and CwDP go on my Best of list, but The Body wouldn't be on my Favorites list because it's so hard to watch. My favorites are the ones that are well made, emotional and more story-arc driven. The Gift, Restless, OMwF, and CwDP are on both lists.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2005-10-08 09:09 ]

electricspacegirl | October 08, 11:09 CET

Like afew others here I think both lists are a little out of wack, but to each his own. I would have Becoming pt 1&2, Restless,The wish, well most people know the best eps. I enjoyed reading his thoughts though.

BD | October 08, 11:52 CET

Like other have said, each to their own, but any Buffy top ten that doesn't have Becoming on it is very hard to take seriously. Not to mention that there is just no way that Lies My Parents told me is better than Restless, The Body, Lie To Me, Who Are You?, Doppelgangland, etc....yeah I'm a sucker for Joss episodes.

On the Angel side, though, they actually include one of my all time least favorite episodes, the heinous "Girl in Question." And "Billy"? Insteresting idea, mediocre execution. And "A Hole In The World" is sentimental crap, one of Joss most mediocre eps. In my opinion, not even in the Angel top 20, let alone number one of all time. "5x5" and "Sanctuary" should have been on this list, as well as the one where Angel lets Dru and Darla kill Holland Manners (the name slips my mind). Also, where are "Sleep Tight," "That Old Gang Of MIne," "The Magic Bullet," "Peace Out," or "Home" ? "Smile Time" is very good, but still not THAT good. I just don't get all the love for season 5. Some great eps, but very uneven overall. But even amongst Season 5 eps, I would have chosen "Destiny," "Conviction," "Just Rewards," "Damage," or "Origin," ahead of "Girl In Question."

[ edited by bonzob on 2005-10-08 10:28 ]

bonzob | October 08, 12:26 CET

LMPTM is a good episode, but IMO not as good as Selfless. Restless should have been in the top 10. (In my personal top three.) It's simply a must. I liked BBBW more than the Zeppo. I adore the Wish, and I think it should have been in the top ten, but I don't like it as much as BBBW. I used to like Girl in Question, but the more I think about the more I dislike that episode.

Angel lets Dru and Darla kill Holland Manners

That was Angel's best episode and the best scene of the entire Jossverse.

Koos | October 08, 14:03 CET

These lists are certainly interesting, if not perfect.

However, I am very glad to find someone else that agrees with me on The Body being the very best episode of Buffy! It is the most emotionally devastating hour of television I've seen. Haunting, moving, beautiful, and one of the very best things Joss has ever done. It's quiet, it's uncomfortable, it's brilliant.

His other picks...Once More, With Feeling is of course genius and also my #2 pick for Buffy; Hush is great (the Gentlemen are terrifying) but to me does not belong in a top 10; I Only Have Eyes For You is very beautiful and poignant, one of the most overlooked episodes of Buffy's run; The Gift is genius of course, and for my money, the best moment of the episode comes when Spike sees Buffy's dead body...and just melts into grief; Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered is a personal favorite, being one of the funniest episodes of the series (I also adore the bit where Willow seduces Xander); Fool for Love is one of the very best episodes, chock-full of great Spike moments; Lies My Parents Told Me is another of my favorite episodes, and probably one of the most underrated out there; Helpless really is pretty good, but only scratches greatness during the scenes in which Buffy confronts Giles; and Passion is one of the most tragically genius episodes in all of television history. Angel's monologue at the end? *shivers*

His choices for Angel are, well, different.

A Hole in the World had me crying myself silly, and shouting, "%@#! YOU, JOSS WHEDON!" very loudly, but is far from the best episode, despite one of my favorite quotes of the entire series: "That's madness." "This is a place of madness."; Smile Time is absolutely wonderful and hilarious, with some of the best moments of Angel's run; Not Fade Away would be my pick for Angel's best, and perhaps the best entry of episodic television ever created; Hero was heartwrenching; Spin the Bottle was very mediocre, in the same boat as Buffy's Tabula Rasa for me, though I do admit it was great seeing bitchy Cordy again; Waiting in the Wings is one of my favorite episodes, what with the whole Wesley/Fred/Gunn thing going on, not to mention the first Jossverse appearance of everyone's favorite body of water, Summer Glau; I Will Remember You chokes me up just thinking about it; Billy was compelling but not great, though it does sport one of my favorite Wesley moments...you know what I'm talking about...the axe...the hallway...oh, the creepy; You're Welcome was a very bittersweet, brilliant episode; and The Girl in Question I didn't care much for, but it did add some sort of closure to the Angel/Buffy/Spike triangle, I guess.

Now, the dude's writing skills? That is another subject entirely...

UnpluggedCrazy | October 08, 14:05 CET

The Girl In Question is undoubtedly in my worst 10 episodes. It reeked.

Grounded | October 08, 14:12 CET

I thought it was hilarious.

The Dark Shape | October 08, 14:20 CET

Really? What didnt you like about it Grounded? I'd just like hear your opinion.

BD | October 08, 14:26 CET

Interesting choices but like others above, I disagree! (little Family Guy shout out there, btw)
Buffy-wise, eps like LMPTM are great eps for first watching in terms of explaining background and deepening charactrisation, but unless you love Spike, you don't want to watch over and over. Plus, I really don't get why IOHEFY made it in.
Angel-wise, I agree that 5x5 should be in there somewhere but it's nice to see Hero get a mention. And though I have problems with Billy for professional reasons, it made for good telly with them after Fred in the hotel. I woudn't put it in a top 10 though as it's somewhat derivative, and other more original eps could take its place.
Just my opinion.

lone fashionable wolf | October 08, 14:57 CET

Really? What didnt you like about it Grounded?

I'm not Grounded, but I disliked "The Girl in Question" because the humour wasn't particularly funny but mostly because it was a blight on the character of Buffy and a shameful last look at Darla and Dru. Disappointing all around.

crossoverman | October 08, 14:59 CET

I don't think either are bad lists, of course, even what's considered the worst Buffy/Angel episodes are good tv for me.
In fact, BTVS is the best show ever, IMO, with Angel close behind.

I finally got to watch a FIREFLY episode. (the one with Naked Mal) I can't believe how entertained I was. Like I did with Buffy for a long time, I was balking at watching FIREFLY.

I should have known.

I didn't think I was a genre fan, but Joss Whedon and his writers have changed that in a major way. (Well...yeah and Spike)

spikeylover | October 08, 15:05 CET

"The Girl in Question" is the only episode of Buffyverse that I have not watched (could not force myself to). The story just seems too close to a mockery to me.

[ edited by Lince on 2005-10-08 13:14 ]

Lince | October 08, 15:10 CET

The beauty of Buffy and Angel is like James Bond, everyone has their favorite actor and film, so what else can you do other then appreciate another view of a fan, there'll never be a perfect list.

SeanValen | October 08, 16:23 CET

I never agree with any of these lists. I guess that's because Buffy and Angel touch us all in different ways. Except you know, not in that inappropriate, bad touching way. Well, except for that one episode, anyway.

Gypsy | October 08, 16:38 CET

Passion really doesn't get enough love on lists like these, so it made me very happy to see it's inclusion. But to see Fool for Love on there over Becoming? I'm sorry, that's just insane.

Really, for all it's greatness, I don't really think Helpless would make a top-ten (although it does have the fantastic Buffy/Giles exchange when he tells her everything, and the one scene at the end where he wipes her face tentatively).

Lie's my Parents Told Me, it's good, but not good enough to make top 10. Top 15, yeah, sure. I'd put Passion here.

I'd put The Zeppo instead of Fool For Love and The Wish instead of Bewtiched, Bothered & Bewildered. Then I'd put I only ave Eyes for you you around 10 and chuck Restless in at about 4 or so and put Becoming at number 2.

Gouki | October 08, 16:38 CET

The Girl in Question was hilarious. Loved it to bits.

Simon | October 08, 16:51 CET

So many good eps, it is hard to choose... but the selections from Season 2 are kinda strange at least for the Buffy list. The Angel list is just plain weird.

rockchalkwatcher | October 08, 17:30 CET

Fool for Love is so full of Spike at his greatest (and worst, therefore greatest) that it has to figure in anyone's top list. The ending still makes me hold my breath till the credits roll.

SweetMarilyn | October 08, 17:32 CET

The jokes were funny in The Girl in Question. Only sadly enough it was a comical episode in the first place. It was backstabbing Buffy. But that didn't annoy me. If they really would have some serious closure with the Buffy/Angel/Spike triangle than they should have used Xander instead of Andrew to make the message the writers wanted to make.

The only way I now can see this episode is to make fun with Angel and Spike over the backs of other characters.

The same problem I have with LMPTM. It shouldn't have been Spike's background we should have seen. We have had Spike's background plenty of times. The episode should have been about Giles. If Giles is going to do something wrong, I would want see why, how and his emotions involved. Now all I see is that a Spike episode made over Giles' back (and IMO also Buffy's).

Koos | October 08, 17:32 CET

Actually, that sets up my favorite moment in Angel, which is the elevator ride with Holland Manners and Angel going to the home office of W&H. Just two guys in an elevator, and it is so chilling.

MissKittysMom | October 08, 18:05 CET

I really do love Helpless, for Giles's betrayal as much as anything, but the first time that Buffy felt betrayed by Giles was in Prophecy Girl. The "I quit" speech, and Buffy literally throwing the book at Giles, is what moved Buffy from "entertaining" to "addictive" for me.

Not to mention the bloody handprint on the TV screen playing Porky Pig cartoons.

Prophecy Girl was the first great Buffy episode.

MissKittysMom | October 08, 18:17 CET

Although all of the episodes listed are among the best, I've noticed that many of my personal favorites never seem to make the best-of lists--for example: Lovers' Walk, A New Man, and Hell's Bells. Also, I know several people who consider Something Blue to be one of the funniest episodes of Buffy ever.

Frances | October 08, 19:05 CET

I like lover's walk more than Fool for Love. In lover's walk we get a much better picture of who Spike is than in Fool For Love. It's also brilliantly humoristic as well as dramatic. Lover's Walk and The Zeppo, if you think about it, two of the same type of episodes; Xander and Spike dealing with the same dilemma and the world seen through their pov. I love these kind of character-episodes.

I think that a poll with the most comical episode would be held that Tabula Rasa would win.

Buffy's I quite scene in Prophecy Girl was brilliant. So was her scene where she walked to Highschool to kill the Master, filled with self-confidence. Another favorite episode of mine is Grave.

Koos | October 08, 19:29 CET

Thanks for the validation, Koos. And I'm glad to see that some of your favorite episodes are from Season Six, too. It is one of my favorite seasons, although some would disagree.

Frances | October 08, 19:46 CET

I have to give an honorable mention to Doppelgangland. It might not have the alternative hideous-wonder of The Wish, but you want funny?
'She was truly the finest of all of us.'
'Way better than me.'
'Much, much better.'

lone fashionable wolf | October 08, 19:54 CET

Really? What didnt you like about it Grounded? I'd just like hear your opinion.

1) Not particularly funny. The 'big laugh' of Angel on the back of Spike's moped has been done twice before in Buffy/Angel, and it doesn't play with age.
2) The whole Buffy/Angel/Spike thing was pretty tired at this point.
3) Contrived plot, which wouldn't really have bothered me if the flashbacks had been really well executed. They weren't. (I actually thought the Illyria parts to this ep weren't too bad, but the rest of it...meh). Someone mentioned poor sendoffs for Darla/Drusilla, and I have to agree.
4) Worst of all, this ep totally derailed the progress towards the finale. Ultimately, what was the point of it? It didn't really resolve anything. I have nothing against comedy eps as long as they're timely and purposeful.

Anyway, even if some people like it, I can't believe anyone would put it in their top 10. Whoever made this list even ranks it above such stone cold classics as Five By Five/Sanctuary, Reprise/Epiphany, AYNOHYEB and so on and so on. Even from S5 surely most people would rank eps like Destiny and Lineage far above TGIQ?

Grounded | October 08, 21:56 CET

Is it possible to praise the episode: "Billy" without talking about the airport scene when Lilah shoots Billy? Or how about Cordy's "I'm wearing pants." or "How could I not." I think of all the episodes before, this is the first episode when Cordelia is an adult. Yes, she appears to mature but we still see that she has those moments were we see her insecurities and fears. Something changes in her after this episode, it's evident through out the whole series afterwards. Also, for Your Welcome, I think one of the main reasons why it touched me so much was because the line "Oh, and your welcome" is a line that the sassy Cordelia from season 1 of Buffy would say. Yeah, she says it differently that early Cordy would, but I think the meaning of it--that she would say "your welcome" before Angel got a chance to thank her it something so crucial to her character. As you can tell, I'm a pretty CC obsessed gal.

MySerenity | October 09, 06:59 CET

I am shocked that "Sleep Tight" and "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been" didn't make it in the Angel top ten.

I don't completely agree with either list, but they are full of great episodes.

Grounded, although I mildly enjoyed TGIQ, it's actually quite a controversially popular episode. I've seen an equal amount of negative reviews as those who completely loved it. I found the Italian stereotypes mildly offensive, and the comedy a bit obvious and tired, but I did enjoy a lot of the references and the performances by James Marsters and David Boreanaz. In addition, although it is rarely mentioned, the subplot involving Wesley, Illyria and Fred's parents was very effective.

[ edited by rabid on 2005-10-09 06:10 ]

rabid | October 09, 08:07 CET

Grounded, although I mildly enjoyed TGIQ, it's actually quite a controversially popular episode.

Oh I fully understand that plenty of people enjoyed it, but I'm still amazed anyone could rank it in their top 50 eps let alone their top 10.

Grounded | October 09, 15:57 CET

Decent list, if a little to heavy on the early episodes of Buffy. I liked the later seasons better, as many Buffy fans did. I wasn't a high schooler when I started watching, so it was something I didn't really relate to (except as nostalgia) in the early years. But then, in Season 4, it really started to take off for me.

TGIQ - eh. It was OK. Didn't love it or hate it. It was a much more disappointing offering to me than it would have been if I had known we were getting a Season 6 of Angel. As one of the last eps we would ever see, it was disappointing.

sari | October 09, 18:27 CET

The list is ok, i think everybody has their own opinion about favorite episodes. Lies my parents told me and Fool for love are definatly one of mine.
As for The girl in question, i just took it as a good laugh, it wasn't a serious episode for me.

sethsky | October 09, 18:56 CET

I can't really pick any favorite eps from either show because I enjoy all of them so much. Each one has its own beauty and in some way or another further the character development of everyone. To everyone who doesn't agree with the list at all...either the writer made a typing error or doesn't really pay that much attention, it's mentioned that Dru is the one that vamped Spike's mom, but it was Spike himself and Dru didn't like the idea at all...

Illyria | October 11, 19:50 CET