What does it say about me that it didn't even take me a minute to realize what she was talking about?

Judy | October 09, 07:25 CET

That's because we understand the language of Firefly - at least that's what I'm telling myself. ;^)

I wonder how long it will take this guy once he finishes watching the Firefly DVDs to run out and get the Buffy dvds?

Firefly Flanatic | October 09, 07:30 CET

"created by the guy who made "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" - another show I never watched on account of it sounding so incredibly gay."

Eh. Its a positive article but how can I possibly take him serious when he says stuff like that. On the other hand this part was funny "and their trashed-out ships look like an outer-space trailer park."

And does anyone else find it hard to believe he never saw the show if he can figure out Inara is a prostitute?

eddy | October 09, 07:31 CET

It's subtle, but it is there. The video shot by Kaylee as Inara packs, saying, "A Companion entertained clients right in this very..." and River sniffs the bed, which is hilarious, and again in the House when Mal goes, "You know, for a woman schooled in telling a man what he wants to hear.."

It's there if you choose to put the pieces together. Plus, the exotic way she dresses that differs from the rest of the crew, that accentuates her beauty, again, add it all up, and you can come to that conclusion. Plus, her room in the House, the look of it, the incense...it's a sensual place.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2005-10-09 05:41 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2005-10-09 05:42 ]

pat32082 | October 09, 07:40 CET

That's why I liked this review - he seemed like the type that would've gone into the theater ready to hate the movie because it was by that guy with the show with the "gay name". He went and saw it and found out he really liked it enough that he's now going to watch the Firefly dvds (and once he finds out how much he loves it, it will lead to that other show!).

How many of us BtVS fans have run into people that we think would love the show and they won't watch it because of the name and think it sounds stupid. Here's a reviewer who basically admits that but gave Serenity a look and loved it and thought it was funny - even says something about owing Joss an apology.

But I mainly liked it because it was a reviewer who had know knowledge of what the show was about but got it and also I thought the stuff he said about Jessica Alba not having to talk underwater was a plus was funny!

[ edited by Firefly Flanatic on 2005-10-09 05:43 ]

Firefly Flanatic | October 09, 07:42 CET

I'm with eddy. If i had never saw "Firefly" and then saw "Serenity", I probably would not have figured out Inara was a prostitute. Part of me wonders why Joss didn't make it out to be a bigger part?

CaptMEL | October 09, 07:44 CET

There was mention quite a bit in reviews about one of the characters being a prostitute - I even saw one headline mentioning a "Space Hooker" so even if someone didn't pick it up while watching the movie they may have been aware of it going in. But I really felt that whole scene with River sniffing the bed (cracked me up too Pat!) and what Kaylee was saying was to inform the unitiated what exactly it was that Inara did in her shuttle.

Firefly Flanatic | October 09, 07:48 CET

He's said in interviews, that because it is Mal's story, all you really needed to know was that Inara was the woman Mal left behind, which was a classic Western thing. But in the big Inara scene he cut, it's made plainly obvious what she is, and what she does. Which was a nice scene, especially for the end bit, but I understand why he cut it.

Now, there's more small Inara bits that were cut, but only one I was sad to see go. Sigh. Anyone who has the Visual Companion will know what I mean. C'mon DVD...

ETA: Thanks for backing me up on that River bit, FireflyFlanatic. I've seen the completed movie twice, and I think I'm seeing it tomorrow with my father, and every time, it feels like I'm the only one who notices it. :-)

[ edited by pat32082 on 2005-10-09 05:49 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2005-10-09 05:52 ]

[ edited by pat32082 on 2005-10-09 05:54 ]

pat32082 | October 09, 07:48 CET

I haven't finished reading the VC yet so I haven't got all that info but I'm wondering if these deleted scenes will be on the dvd?

Firefly Flanatic | October 09, 07:51 CET

I sure as heck hope so. So you haven't read through the whole script?

pat32082 | October 09, 07:53 CET

Nope, not yet. Now I'm more anxious to do so!

Firefly Flanatic | October 09, 07:54 CET

Now I just wanna type out the part I mean, for ya. lol.

pat32082 | October 09, 07:55 CET

Lol, I'll get to it soon! Okay, I'm off to go read some more of it now!

Firefly Flanatic | October 09, 07:59 CET

Email me (it's in my profile) when you think you read the scene. :-) I'm off to bed for the night.

pat32082 | October 09, 08:01 CET

If this guy enjoys Kaylee's randy attitude wait until he experiences Anya over on that "gay" show, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Hjermsted | October 09, 08:06 CET

It sucks that people so casually dismiss Buffy, but Joss chose the name he did for a reason I guess. With that said I'm glad he liked Serenity, and I find it a pretty easy segueway to go from Firefly to Angel.

I am slightly annoyed by the casual use of the word gay as a derogotory term for badness... but that's a different topic entirely, just struck me in this article I guess.

[ edited by rabid on 2005-10-09 06:13 ]

rabid | October 09, 08:13 CET

Yeah, I can't see how that line from Kaylee is confusing. And every crowd I've seen it with laughed right away.

BTW, speaking of Inara, did anyone else catch that we hear her voice during Serenity? Um, at least where we don't expect to...
Joss pointed it out on another board(though he didn't say who it was) and I determined to give it a listen and sure enough, it's her. Or more likely, just Morena :~P

Rogue Slayer | October 09, 08:14 CET

I've read the whole script a week or two ago, and there are several scenes in there that made me go "ey! Why did he cut this out??" Some of them might indeed have made some aspects a little clearer to newcomers. And some are just really funny.

Most of them indeed have Inara in them. Poor Morena, heh... As far as I know they will be on the DVD, but they'll probably in there as 'extras'. I wouldn't have minded them back in the movie in the same way the extended versions of the LotR DVDs had it.

EdDantes | October 09, 08:21 CET

The thing that sucks about bits cut from the script is that Joss likely didn't film all of them, so some won't exist as deleted scenes. Some are restricted to the page.

And it'd be nice if "gay" as a derogatory term could be eliminated some time soon, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

Kris | October 09, 08:27 CET

I'm not entirely certain that this writer is a total Whedon virgin. There were plot points in his review (in addition to Inara being a prostitute) that could not have been gleaned by just watching the movie. For example, (now correct me if I'm wrong since I've only seen Serenity twice), but the writer mentions that "They also take on paying passengers". I don't remember there being any mention of Simon and River paying fare. In fact, the first couple of minutes was about how Mal expected River to contribute by working the job with them. Mal also talks about how he provided shelter and protection for Simon and River. There is no mention of Simon or River actually paying fare. That is something one would only know from watching Firefly.

mai | October 09, 08:27 CET

Simon says he paid for his room during the long steadicam shot.(I think..anyone want to correct me?) Its after Mal says they are guests on his ship.

eddy | October 09, 08:33 CET

Well there are some pictures in the book of scenes that were cut and some of the others' beginnings are shown in the movie but are then cutaway while in the script they go on, so I'm carefully optimistic about there being a decent number of lost goodies!

EdDantes | October 09, 11:27 CET

is there a place where the Joss's script for Serenity is available to read??? I would like to read it.

ChosenOne5376 | October 09, 11:29 CET

I noticed that he seemed to know some stuff outside of the movie too. I think that probably he decided to read some stuff on the show online or something before he wrote the review.

I think there's an interesting connection between homophobia and resistance to Buffy the Vampire Slayer. If I was still in film school, I'd write a paper on it or something. I wonder why that is... like if it has to do with Joss messing with traditional gender stereotypes or what.

Celluloid Novelist | October 09, 11:29 CET

"created by the guy who made "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" - another show I never watched on account of it sounding so incredibly gay."

Eh. Its a positive article but how can I possibly take him serious when he says stuff like that.

well, it *is* a silly name, it *doesn't* invite you to take it seriously as the intelligent drama that it is. So I have no trouble with the sentiment, it's something I hear a lot. I just say 'trust me. Give it a try. ' My friends know the kind of thing I like, they know I read intelligent books, like intelligent movies, so they normally give it a go. And then they're sucked in!

But I'm right behind those whio say they wish gay would be binned as a synonym for stupid.

Mehitabel | October 09, 12:16 CET

The invisible tag doesn't work on the RSS feed so I've trimmed it.

Simon | October 09, 12:31 CET

Chosenone5376, there's a book out at all the major retailers (I got my copy at Barnes and Noble an hour after I saw the BDM). Its called "Serenity, The Official Visual Companion" and contains not only the shooting script, but an excellent interview with Joss. There are also tons of photos, sketches, and pre-production notes.

| October 09, 12:49 CET

Yeah it's a very good book, one of the best of this type I've seen.

EdDantes | October 09, 13:22 CET

Agreed. However, all the slashy subtext in Buffy has many times made me proclaim it "the gayest show ever!" but with the literal meaning and much affection. :)

electricspacegirl | October 09, 13:52 CET

I'm sorry, but I spent more time wondering why this reviewer had to keep hitting me over the head with his heterosexual masculinity than I did appreciating the review.

roadrunner | October 09, 14:30 CET

I feel it is a good review, he's not a Firefly fan, or even a big Whedon fan in general, and he liked the movie. I figure the more people saying positive things about the BDM the better. Interesting that he specifically mentions the robot in a prom dress because to me that robot is such a call out to the fans, I immediately thought Buffybot when I saw it.

So all that talk here about the movie poster, whether we liked it or not doesn't matter much I guess, the poster wasn't made to entice us fans. Looks like it's doing what it was meant to do - it got a non-fan to see the movie. All the discussions about the poster were fun to read though :)

Passion | October 09, 15:47 CET

Well, all the scenes cut from the shooting script should be there (the version of the script that's in the VC), as Joss should've shot them, as the name implies.

pat32082 | October 09, 16:03 CET

It's an interesting linguistic evolution, gay going from happy to homosexual to sometimes meaning bad. I don't think it's as simple as some people think (that people are using gay to mean bad purely because they don't like gays).

I have a theory that the bridge between the usages is "campy." The most recent usage of gay is often applied to media that could be percieved as cheesy or campy, which to many people is almost synonymous with being bad.

Yeah, this is a total tangent, but general conversation doesn't often remind me of my linguistic theory of gay, so I might as well share it while I'm thinking of it.

The best convergence of possible connotations of gay that I've found is the original Batman TV show. You can call that show gay and any usage of the word can be argued to hold (it's festive, campy, homoerotic, and delightfully awful).

Celluloid Novelist | October 09, 16:35 CET

The gay comment thing could perhaps be part of the reason people don't give Buffy a chance. There is a false stereotype that most gay men enjoying watching programmes like Sex in the City, and worship Kylie Minogue, and stuff like that. Some people think that Buffy is like the film, kind of campy, with a glamorous lead character.

However, upon actually watching Buffy it is evident that it isn't a silly camp show like Charlie's Angels or something, and can be equally appreciated by people of both genders, regardless of their race or class or sexuality. It is a smart, enjoyable show, as is Angel, and it's a shame that people sometimes get a negative perception of something so great.

Rogue Slayer, may I ask what you are saying about Morena? Does she provide a voice for a computer or something? I've tried to figure out what you meant, but that's the only conclusion I can come to. I'm going to see Serenity for the third time in an hour so it would be nice to know now so I can listen out for it.

Personally I would have liked more of Inara but I thought she had much less screentime than Book, even with a few of her scenes removed. I would have liked more of both of them, but it maybe would have affected the pace of the film. I definitely would like to see any deleted filmed scenes on the DVD.

I also thought the whole Companion thing wasn't very explicit, but I didn't think it needed to be, if you want to pay enough attention to the film then you can work it out, but it won't confuse those who don't want to know more.

Razor | October 09, 18:08 CET

I think the Jordy persona is strictly tongue-in-cheek; afterall, the disclaimer at the end of the article clearly states that the name is a psuedonym used by a long time writer for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. I think the purpose here is to induce "macho types" to give the movie and the series a chance and oh yeah, maybe even for a second raise second-thoughts about Buffy.

Calledon | October 09, 18:37 CET

I thought that it was interesting that the reviewer picked up on the fact that Book had been a member of the crew, because I don't think that was very obvious.
And I too would love to know when else Morena speaks. I did finally figure out that it is Summer's voice when you see little girl River.

Lioness | October 09, 18:39 CET

Calledon is right. These “reviews” are definitely tongue-in-cheek, satirizing low-brow Southern humor. No self-respecting journalist would choose the pseudonym "Jordy 'Ray' Purlky Jr." There's even been speculation that the writer is a woman (Elanor Ringel Gillespie fits the bill as a "longtime writer at The Atlanta Journal-Constitution").

I didn't think this was one of Ray's funniest reviews. Some of the best are actually written by "LaDonna", Ray's ex-wife who fills in when Ray is on a bender. Another sign to not take the reviews too seriously.

Rhianna | October 09, 19:05 CET

Re the "Morena voice" comment, Joss has admitted he did the voice for the old man who opens the safe. Even though you clearly see the actor while he's talking it's Joss you hear. Replacing dialogue is very common in movies though usually the actor would repeat his lines in the studio to match his on screen performance. Maybe Joss didn't like his voice? Or they couldn't get the actor back?

But, he then made a comment about someone else's voice being used for the computer early on. You can see it in the first nine minutes online and it sounds like Morena. Question is, is it something they just got Morena to do to save time and money? Or is it foreshadowing? Maybe Inara was connected to the Alliance in some way that they decided to use her voice? She did say she supported unification. Maybe she's a robot?

[ edited by zz9 on 2005-10-09 17:55 ]

zz9 | October 09, 19:54 CET

I didn't like this piece at all. If I want to read faux-trash reviewing, I'll take Joe Bob Briggs, thanks very much. The use of "gay" in that context just pisses me off, and as roadrunner notes, the reviewer makes sure to let us know, repeatedly, that he really digs bikinis and hot chicks. How very 15 years old of him (or her, or whoever).

SoddingNancyTribe | October 09, 21:56 CET

Rogue Slayer, may I ask what you are saying about Morena? Does she provide a voice for a computer or something? I've tried to figure out what you meant, but that's the only conclusion I can come to.

Yup, it's the computer voice when the Operative 'logs in'.

Rogue Slayer | October 09, 22:11 CET

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's a 'him'.... But yeah this is again one of those that makes me scratch my head. The very fact that this guy gets paid for this by a newspaper?? (Sure doesn't plead well for Detroit newspapers). What really got my goat also was the last line: "But it's gonna take more than one good movie to make me go anywhere near "Buffy" - am I right?"

I just hear this voice of some cliched macho 'mook-y' character from a sitcom or bad maffia flic or something. He certainly needs to confirm his masculinity at every turn. 'Oh man, I praised Whedon! Now people will think I like 'Buffy! and then they'll doubt my manliness!! Gotta go buy a big red sportscar right now!! Please don't look at my genitals!!'

Talk about low criteria for journalists these days...

EdDantes | October 09, 22:45 CET

I wasn't so much offended by the "gay" thing because it was, as Celluloid Novelist said, more in the context of camp or in "something gay people would like" -- which is enough reason for a lot of otherwise not-particularly-homophobic guys to avoid things, though it's really a shame. (I'm straight and I love both musicals and westerns, so there.)

However, I did think Joe Bob Briggs should sue.

(It also occurs to me that the guy might have gleaned the info. from a presskit or a Browncoat-friend.)

bobster | October 09, 23:26 CET

Thanks Rogue Slayer, as it happened, I have to leave before I had a chance to look back at this thread, and as I was listening out for it, I found it by myself. It was very neat.

zz9, I seriously doubt it was anything other than a piece of trivia, like Joss thought it might be cool, nothing to do with saving money or implications for Morena's character.

Razor | October 09, 23:38 CET

I never post here, but I have to say that I swear on everything holy that the real Jordy Ray Purkel, Jr. is NOT a homophobe at all! He is also not Eleanor Ringel, the usual AJC movie critic. All of his articles are written tongue-in-cheek and from the perspective of a southern redneck, but the writer is anything but... WAY anything but.

And you're right, the writer is way more familiar with the Buffy-verse than he's willing to admit. So please take this article in the humorous way it's intended, even if you don't think it's all that funny.

Cris | October 10, 18:58 CET

Thanks for the confirm on Joss's voice at the trade station. I have been convinced it was him since Viewing #3. I'm up to 8 now; I've purchased 15 tickets total - including June 23, and I've gone by myself 3 times - and I converted a new Browncoat!

My friends are telling me that I've done my part (for the Houston area) and that I should be getting a personal "thank you" from Joss. I say, "I'm just enjoying the movie! And Nathan! More Nathan…now please!"

Now I have to go for #9 to hear Morena. Darn the luck! ;) I was just telling someone today that I was thinking about hanging it up!

I agree that the reviewer appears to have done some research re: the Firefly 'verse.

brownishcoat | October 11, 23:07 CET