Wow. That was a beautifully written and very thoughtful essay/review. I'm a big fan of C.S. Lewis, and I thought the correlations the author made between Lewis and Joss were really interesting. Definitely one of the best reviews out there.

Ciella | October 13, 22:36 CET

Really nicely written and a fascinating piece. Thanks for that, Maeve!

zeitgeist | October 13, 22:40 CET

I have to wonder what the relevance of the author's faith is. Is it because Joss is a devout athiest that makes it important that a Christian would find merit in his work?

EDIT: Forgot to say that yes, it was a great piece. :)

[ edited by ringworm on 2005-10-13 20:41 ]

ringworm | October 13, 22:40 CET

ringworm - maybe just making the point that love of Joss-ness transcends religious background just as it does political background?

zeitgeist | October 13, 22:42 CET

Which is certainly a fertile avenue of discussion. I think maybe living in the times we do and being an atheist myself makes any mention of religion feel exclusionary and dangerous to me, even though it probably shouldn't.

ringworm | October 13, 22:46 CET

What a wonderful explanation of how "genre" can work, and I wholeheartedly agree. I'm often hardpressed to explain to friends why i love works like BtVS, which are about things like Vampires and Demons and hellmouths. They rarely believe me when i explain how realistic it ultimately is. But as someone who in general is drawn to realism, rather than escapism, I really do believe that Genre that plays by those rules is sometimes much more "realistic" – in its depictions of emotions, character growth, and use of metaphor for real situations – than most forms of mass-produced, "realistic" entertaiment that follows the silly narrative conventions and clichés that have very little to do with real life.
That – not the vampire and demon and witchcraft lore – is why I love Joss's worlds so much. (And the Chronicle of Narnia books, I should add - they were among my very favorites as a kid).

Nice article and fascinating read. Thanks for posting!

acp | October 13, 22:58 CET

I think maybe living in the times we do and being an atheist myself makes any mention of religion feel exclusionary and dangerous to me, even though it probably shouldn't.

I hear ya. I dislike the implication that since Christians like something, it must be good or worthy or moral or decent. I get the vibe from Christian articles on Joss' stuff that the vibe is more like, "Wow, even Christians like it!" meaning that if work from a guy who's most known for 'evil' vampire stories and the like can attract a very selective group like Christians(and yes, I know lumping them all together is dangerous) then it must be really great and inclusionary(is that a word?).

To be honest though, when I see something has a Christian stamp of approval, that's usually a 'stay away' sign for me. But since I already know Joss' work, I'll stick with the ol' feller! :~P

Rogue Slayer | October 13, 23:54 CET

It has been more years than I care to count, since I read Lewis' sci-fi trilogy. Time to re-read I think.

Znachki | October 13, 23:56 CET

I often have the exact same reaction. But then I realize that that can be just as reactive and judgmental as a right-wing bible-belter deciding they must not like a movie or book because it's approved by atheists or liberals. When it comes to storytelling, especially, I think the umbrella is often big enough for us all of us. And the idealist in me likes that such polarized people at conservatives and liberals, secularists and bible-thumpers, geeks and cheerleaders, can all enjoy the same story – especially at a time when most forces seem to be trying to widen the gap.

Anyhow, despite being often turned off by christian approval, i found this particular piece fairly thoughtful – which might have to do with the fact that I've always kind of dug Lewis's brand of theology - the little i know of it. At the least, it's thoughtful and intelligent, even when i disagree with his precise points.

[ edited by acp on 2005-10-13 22:18 ]

acp | October 14, 00:03 CET

Even though I don't believe in Christian mythology anymore, I'm a long-time fan of the Narnia Chronicles (is anyone else excited about the new movie coming soon?), so this article makes me happy.

electricspacegirl | October 14, 00:14 CET

/agree acp. I'll take this opportunity to wave a temporary goodbye to you, my friends. Off on holiday for a bit over a week with my lovely lady, will most likely not be able to post until I get back. Hope you are all well and enjoy many lively discussions (minus drama) while I'm away. Don't make C, Simon and SNT work too hard :)

zeitgeist | October 14, 00:29 CET

Enjoy yourselves Zeitgeist and barest_smidgeon. Have a pint for me!

Lioness | October 14, 00:48 CET

If I had to agree with the religio-political world views of every creative person I enjoyed, well, there would go pretty much every artist working before the last fifty years or so, with the possible exceptions of E.M Forster and Mark Twain, and that would be a shame. Dostoyevsky and I, for example, have some pretty basic and deep differences about politics (I don't think he'd take to our Bill of Rights, for one ), the nature of life, the universe, and everything -- but I still have a lot to learn from him. Not all truths are so easily boiled down to liberal/conserative religious/secularist, etc.

Also, often atheists are more spiritual than nominally religoius people. Joss may not believe in God, but he deals very much with the same issues that religion, at its best, deals with as well.

And have a great time, Zeitgeist.

bobster | October 14, 01:26 CET

Will we be digging up Tolkien next? Surely the Inklings will want to weigh in with an opinion on the subject...maybe over a pint at the bird and baby?

Shakespeare | October 14, 02:04 CET

I think we'll drop the Christian label in the subject line in future links from now on. Doesn't make one damn bit of difference what mainstream religious or political belief the person has. If they like the movie good. If they don't fair enough.

Simon | October 14, 02:04 CET

bobster: "Also, often atheists are more spiritual than nominally religoius people. Joss may not believe in God, but he deals very much with the same issues that religion, at its best, deals with as well."

Your first sentence here is not only unquantifiable, it's just silly. Maybe *in your estimation* this may be the case, but well, all generalizations (except this one of course!) are insupportable.

Your second sentence, though, is totally on the mark. I am a (returned, after 3 decades away) Catholic. A conservative Catholic. A conservative politically. My wife is the same, except that she's a Catholic convert.

She brought me back to the Church at nearly the same time that she introduced me to Buffy, which led to all the other stuff. I don't think there's a big coincidence there. Buffy (and Angel, and Firefly) deal with the great moral issues facing humanity--love, faith, honor, devotion, betrayal, duty, sacrifice, friendship, suffering--in such a profound way that my wife and I are regularly astounded by episodes we've seen multiple times.

Joss may be an atheist, and I will accept him at his word. But I will continue to believe that God blessed him in an amazing number of ways, and I will be thankful for that.

And, what bobster said, Zeitgeist!

Chris inVirginia | October 14, 02:13 CET

I too often step back before examining something "Christian approved" BUT no longer do this in regard to works by CS Lewis. A family close to mine was Christian in a way that my family was not but hey, CS Lewis was definite children's reading material in both homes. It was one of the few things our homes had in common and of course I loved the Chronicles.

electricspacegirl, I am also looking forward to the film, especially since I saw the trailer about four times recently. That shouldn't surprise anyone. I heard a criticism of the movie once when someone commented it seemed an effort to "capitalize" on the success of Harry Potter. As in, nowadays anyone making a piece of great children's literature into a film/s is capitalizing on HP's or LOTR's success. I think if it's a piece of great literature, why not make a great movie? Surely a great deal of effort is currently being made to make this an excellent feature, given the story's legendary status. Lets wait and see how good the film is before we call a halt to production just because it might turn into a profitable franchise. If it's a quality franchise, then it deserves to be profitable. I have not read up on the project but I was very keen on the trailers.

WhoIsOmega? | October 14, 02:20 CET

Chris, I think you misunderstood or maybe I misued "nominally religious" -- by which I meant people who might go to church on occasion, but don't really apply what they hear to their life in any significant way. It sounds to me like you're anything but "nominal."

I am talking about the fact that I've come across a lot of people who are what you might call active disbelievers (as opposed to wimpy agnostics like me) who strike me as pretty spiritual...almost despite themselves. In fact, the most spiritual person I know (obviously in my personal and highly imperfect estimation) is actualy a far angrier atheist than Joss. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to try to somehow pit his spirituality against yours or anyone else's for whom religion is truly important.

[ edited by bobster on 2005-10-14 04:17 ]

bobster | October 14, 02:40 CET

Having seen the Harry Potter and Narnia trailers a lot lately :) (along with some others I'd rather not), I'm looking forward to both.

This was a very thoughtful and well-written essay. I don't agree with a lot of C.S. Lewis's theology, but he's always interesting - see "The Screwtape Letters".

Zeitgeist and barest_smidgen, have a wonderful time in the wilds of Scotland. I look forward to seeing some pictures on your return (of scenery and historical sites, of course!).

samatwitch | October 14, 06:08 CET