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October 27 2005

(SPOILER) Angel: Old Friends #1 Preview Art. Three pages of yet-to-be lettered art by David Messina for the next Angel mini series from IDW.

Is that Gunn doing a Xander impersonation? Does it mean he survives NFA?
Guess so Gill.... I hope this is better than the last mini series lol.
Eyepatches are lame.
So glad we don't have to consider this canon...
I second that RambleOn623. These comic books are not good.

Angel: The Curse was interesting at first, but it got incredibly boring and I stopped buying at #3. This preview page of Angel: Old Friends looks terrible...I don't mean the artwork, but the plot it hints at. Gunn survived the alleyway battle? Even with Illyria's whole, "You only have 10 minutes left" proclamation?

Gahh...I shall not be buying these...
Yes it is rather depressing--though I should say I haven't worked my way through this mini-series yet. Eyepatches are cool in general, though.
Since when is Illyria the be-all-end-all? I think he'd be in a tv movie too if it ever happens.
Well, I do remember reading an interview where Joss himself said that Gunn for sure didn't make it.
I think that was at the Kerry fundraiser and, if memory serves (which it rarely does), I think he might have said it in somewhat of a flip, off-hand sort of way. I wasn't there however, so you know, 'grain of salt' time.
Gunn doesn't get nearly enough love, folks. (IMO).

[ edited by The Devil's Robot on 2005-10-27 05:14 ]
It was said in a jokey, teasy manner at the fundraiser. And also, if memory serves, at Comic-Con 2004. Or perhaps memory fails me on that one.

It strikes me that Gunn's supposed demise is - with apologies to real quantum physicists out there - a bit of a Schrodinger's Cat affair right now, in the sense that, until JW says - or authorizes someone else to say - something either way, Gunn is really neither dead nor alive (or perhaps both at the same time . . .). OK, it's not really like the cat, but there is a poised indeterminacy about what actually happened - and I don't think any of us can say Gunn *is* dead (or alive) until Joss actually tells that story. Or that's how I prefer to see it, at any rate.
So there's a universe where Gunn lives, a universe where Gunn dies, and a universe with nothing but shrimp?

[ edited by The Devil's Robot on 2005-10-27 05:15 ]
Gunn doesn't get nearly enough love, folks. (IMO).

The Devil's Robot, I heartily agree. I always enjoy his character and J. August Richards just shines onscreen. "War Zone" is an early favourite of mine; it's a powerful beginning to one of the many rich, interesting and complex ongoing character arcs in AtS (and BTVS, by extension). Plus right from first viewing, I always find the scene where the vampires grab Alonna in broad daylight quite frightening and shocking.
Gunn doesn't get nearly enough love, folks. (IMO).
I don't think it has anything to do with who likes or dislikes the characters, it's just with him being only human make him a prime candiate for being one of the characters who die during the fight at the end of NFA.
"I don't consider the finale to be quite as open as some people have said," Joss confessed. "Let's see, Gunn definitely dies, and many things are possible. I don't intend to continue the series, I think that the series is over but like I said we're talking about TV movies, we're talking about different venues. I would like to see what happens to those characters in some format we just haven't had a go on what that happens to be yet. But trying to bring back the series I think that it's sort of beyond that now."

Source: www.cityofangel.com
Good sourcing, Chris.

Still, I don't think the matter is settled unless and until the story is told (in authorized TV, movie, or book). I mean Joss could brainwave during an interview: "So Buffy marries Andrew, they have kids, one of whom becomes the President and another the Dark Master," but I wouldn't take that as fact, let alone canon.

As for the cityofangel quote, I suspect Joss was caught in an unguarded moment of weariness, having been asked that particular question x 100.
I so laughed out loud at the Buffy/Andrew thing. But you're right, SNT. It's just that that particular quote stuck with me at the time.
I thought the comics were authorized by Joss, at least, with regards to whether its okay for certain storylines to be told. The eye patch kinda makes me want a story where Gunn meets Xander.
To be honest, although I liked the character, I think that from season three onwards he didn't have much to do at all, and I got the impression that it was simply because the writers didn't know what to do with him. That's not to criticse J. August Richards at all, because there were many episodes where he did a particularly good job, but I just wasn't feeling that interested in the character.

So in that sense, although I would be sad if he did die after Not Fade Away, I can accept it more than I could with one of the other characters, and I don't think there was as much potential left for the character, were things to pick up from where they left off. Illyria is a completely different example, obviously, being such a different, complex character who only appeared in the last half-a-dozen or so episodes.

I wouldn't take this as canon, I think. Even Tales of the Vampires kind of put me off the comics, because some of the stories were definitely nothing resembling canon.
At the Kerry fundraiser, the end of Joss's commentary on what happened to who was "... and Xander loses his other eye!" So I'm thinking he
I was sorely disappointed with Angel: The Curse, the first two issues were reasonably good but they went nowhere after that. I only bought the last three issues out of loyalty.
Simon, I'm with you there. I haven't picked up Issue #5 yet - I had a message when I got home last night that it was at my comic store - but Issue #4 I forgot to pick up for two weeks! Of course, there was the fact that we went to a preview screening that night and I was seeing a certain movie multiple times during that period :).
Yup, The Curse kind of fell flat. We'll get the last one, but only to complete the set, not because it's good!
I agree, Angel: The Curse was not that great. The storytelling fell kinda flat for me, and the artwork looked sorta 'static', in that it did not convey the action in the way that other comic books do.

That having been said, I'll be picking up Angel: Old Friends again. Also, I think I read in the Buffy magazine (although I could be wrong) that Joss had to give his official seal of approval for these stories to get made, so that they don't contradict any future Angel storylines, if it ever gets continued in some official form. So if Gunn shows up in this comic, and it is in fact set after NFA (which the eyepatch certainly seems to suggest), I'm thinking that pretty much means he survived the battle.

Did we get any word that these comic books are not canon? 'Cause I was thinking they were, although I could be wrong, obviously.

As for Gunn, as a character, I always loved him. Jay was always great too. Not only as an actor, but in interviews and at conventions as well ( I still adore the way he stood up for Buffy/Angel fans when journalists were asking him insinuating questions at Nocturnal 3K - that really stayed with me).

I agree that Gunn was somewhat shortchanged in season four. I however do not agree that the same can be said for season five. I think his role at W&H worked more than fine there, giving him purpose and natural progression as a character. As for it not being probable that Gunn survived - well, we have no clue what happens after the NFA endcredits start. And untill we do see what happens (if ever) all bets are off as far as I'm concerned. This is the Buffyverse, after all.
I still adore the way he stood up for Buffy/Angel fans when journalists were asking him insinuating questions at Nocturnal 3K - that really stayed with me.


GVH, I never heard about that. What insinuating questions was he asked?
Well I'm glad to hear I wasn't the only one bored to tears with IDW's first attempt. Very apt example of a writer who has to spread a story out over 5-6 issues to serve the current 'it will be a trade later one' trend, but winds up stretching it so thin there's hardly a story left. Issue one: Angel runs through the forest while dusting some vamps while pondering a lot. All other issues: Angel discusses vampire troubles with gypsies while pondering a lot. Yawn. And if only the pondering had anything new to say about all of Angel's old issues instead of just listing them again.

And the art, while having good atmosphere, lost me more and more too, so I'm not too happy to see this guy is still on board. Angel had practically the exact same facial expression in every panel. "Wonder what time it is" would be the best description for it I guess. And yes, Angel could be stoic, but this.... And some action sequences had very bad flow and consistency.

As for Gunn, at the Comicon of '04 after someone asked what happened after NFA and who lived or died, Joss said un-jokingly and without hesitation: "Well, Gunn is certainly dead" which resulted in a group of the crowd 'awwww'-ing and light booing. Gunn fans presumably. After which Joss (THEN jokingly) replied "Oh! Uh...well, on the other hand, you never know WHAT happened. Uh..." So while he may have changed his mind, I'd say Joss' thought was clearly that ole Charlie-boy bit the dust.
Angel: The Curse...bored now.

Picking up the last issue tomorrow out of loyalty, like Simon.
Okay, so I guess Angel: The Curse will be the first Buffy comic mini-seres I don't bother with (also didn't get the most recent Spike one-shot). I was gonna either get all the issues or wait for the trade, but between the preview pages I've read and the majority opinion being that it kinda sucked...looks like it's really not worth the cash. Probably give Old Friends a pass as well.

If they do any anthology-type graphic novels again like Tales of the Slayer and Tales of the Vampires and it's mostly Joss and ME writers involved, I'm there. Same with if Joss continues Fray. Otherwise these just don't seem worthwhile...
I think Old Friends might be okay... the premise certainly seeems a little more interesting than The Curse, which sounds much more like the plot of a tie-in rather than canon.

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