Whedonesque : Comments on 8948 : Minear on Whedon - "The driving creative force on Angel".

Well, we'll never really know will we. Both DF and TM are entitled to their opinions. Also, wasn't DF's interview from over a year ago? Does he still hold the same opinion?

*sobs bitterly* I want my Angel! Waaah!!!

lynnie | December 12, 18:18 CET

Something new coming up, yes. And chances-that-it-won't-be-on-Fox... zero. We sold it to the new network prez in the room and got a commitment before we left. I could have taken it to NBC, but I was already at the studio (20th, which is my studio where I have my deal) and the network (FOX Network, not to be confused with the studio) is right there (because they are, after all, a least somewhat related), and so that meant I didn't have to drive to Burbank and more importanlty, meant less parking hassle. My needs are small.

Oh YAY! This is some great news! I'm a big fan of Wonderfalls, and I love what Tim did in Firefly. However...he used the F word!

nixygirl | December 12, 18:32 CET

I know it's not as popular as his other stuff, but some of the later episodes of the Inside were quite excellent as well. I can't wait to see Tim's new series.

As for Tim's take on everything, it's just as interesting and valid as Fury's, both see the events in different ways, and it's interesting to see two good takes on everything. I don't think anything Tim says here invalidates Fury's opinion.

I really respect Fury for being so open about it all in his own interview, and it's great that Tim felt the need to post his own thoughts on it.

rabid | December 12, 18:41 CET

I agree that nothing he says here invalidates what DF said; but at the same time it's interesting to read his views.

To be honest; they're bound to have different perspectives. While Tim can talk about the early Buffy years and make some good points about what would have been happening in those days, David was actually THERE. So any differences between the way things were done pre-Angel/Firefly and after, would be far more obvious to him since he lived through all of those phases. Obviously Tim lived through the Angel/Firefly phase, so his comments there are interesting.

Impossible | December 12, 18:47 CET

I was hoping to hear about a project featuring that blonde vampire, in addition to Tim getting his own show to produce of course.

killinj | December 12, 18:56 CET

project featuring that blonde vampire

Maybe, like the Scottish play, we should never speak the S-word until the project is a go. Maybe it's bad luck. So from now on, it shall be the 'project featuring that blond vampire'! :~P

Rogue Slayer | December 12, 19:03 CET

Anyone catch the bit about dinner with Joss, Tim, Drew and... Brian K. Vaughn?

How do I get a seat at that table?

RambleOn623 | December 12, 19:08 CET

This was cool to see Tim respond to what David said in his interview. I also agree that what Tim said doesn't negate what David said. Probably somewhere in between is the whole truth. Like deciphering the gospels. ;)

mike jozic | December 12, 19:11 CET

Different pilot, Simon.

Allyson | December 12, 19:22 CET

There is a project involving Darla? Can they really resurrect her again? ;-)

newcj | December 12, 19:24 CET

newjc, I swear, I was thinking the exact same thing when they started talking about "blonde vampire".. :)

A series on Darla would just be 'neat', because it'd probably include Mark Metcalf.

[wcip]Angel | December 12, 19:43 CET

I would doubt Tim is working on anything Buffyverse related.

gossi | December 12, 19:49 CET

OK, that really looks like some people are squaring up (see Joss' and Tim's responses, to a DF interview which would otherwise not make so much noise)... never good when it is done in public.

Le Comité | December 12, 20:01 CET

I wouldn't read that much into it at all, Le Comité.. Tim sees something like that, he'll comment about it online. In this case I think he just wanted to make it clear Joss was involved in Angel, and in fact helped break the major plot arcs -- something which DF seemed to suggest wasn't the case (or at least wasn't clear about).

gossi | December 12, 20:05 CET

FOX + Commitment = n/a

MySerenity | December 12, 20:06 CET

Cheers Allyson.

And regarding Tim and Joss' responses, I think its more clarification than anything else so I agree with what gossi says.

Simon | December 12, 20:12 CET

LOL@ image of Drew Goddard twirling Joss's moustache :D Great response to DF interview.

I think Tim has a good point about the difference with Joss's type of involvement on Buffy (the early seasons) to that on Angel.

The Do That Girl | December 12, 20:13 CET

I would doubt Tim is working on anything Buffyverse related.

Not currently, no, but he did agree to work on "that blonde vampire" thing for Joss and I was just hoping it would get a mention, even if it's just Tim saying "yeah, we're still working out some of the details."

killinj | December 12, 20:17 CET

killnj I get the impression we'll hear something if it gets greenlit or falls through completely. From what Joss was saying in that radio interview it is still very much in the preliminary stages.

Simon | December 12, 20:20 CET

Harmony's also a blond vampire, and one that's not bogged down with continuity. And stakededness.

[ edited by narky on 2005-12-12 18:52 ]

narky | December 12, 20:52 CET

A new Tim show? Yay!!! On Fox? Uh, third time's the charm? Or fourth, if you coun't Firefly. I hope this one sticks. Seriously, this man is brilliant. At least he has a good perspective on the whole thing. If he just keeps at it, someday he'll have a hit.

Speculation about the show? Is it procedural or sci-fi or something totally different? Will Alexis (please please) or Amber Benson be involved? Inquiring minds want to know.

electricspacegirl | December 12, 21:33 CET

Loved the bit about dinner with Goddard, Joss, and Brian K -- as RambleOn623 said, I'd love to have a seat at that table. Brian's comics work is amazing (raise your hand if you love Y: The Last Man). Must also agree with rabid on The Inside getting way better as time went on. Personally, I liked it straight away, but by ep three I felt they had really hit their stride. And anyone complaining about the Rachel appearing a bit stuff and wooden needs to watch the whole aired run to see her soften. It wasn't that she wasn't an expressive actress, its that she was playing it withdrawn and stiff. So upset that this may not see a DVD release :(

Also, I'm all for new Minear-verse goodness. Tim is one of the best reasons to own a tv.

zeitgeist | December 12, 21:36 CET

*Love* Y, Z. Really well written stuff. Even if most of the women come off as nutzo....

Rogue Slayer | December 12, 21:42 CET

Most women ARE nutzos.

I'm kidding. Please stop stoning me to death.

zeitgeist - The Inside starts on ITV4 soon (I'm trying to get ahold of the date still) for a full 13 week run of all the episodes -- including Amber Benson's episode, and the finale. It's going to be fun.

The episode with Paul, and the flashbacks to the heart-in-the-garden thing, etc -- probably one of the most under seen episodes of TV in ages. That episode is visually stunning in photography, it's got the same story telling style of Out of Gas - it's all there.

gossi | December 12, 21:47 CET

Most women ARE nutzos.

I actually can't disagree with you. Sadly.

Rogue Slayer | December 12, 22:15 CET

Rogue Slayer - just imagine how most men would be if the situation in Y were reversed... makes the women in Y look sane by comparison.

gossi - will attempt to make arrangements to procure the other eps from its ITV run, then. Thanks for the heads up, mate!

zeitgeist | December 12, 22:20 CET

Rogue Slayer - just imagine how most men would be if the situation in Y were reversed... makes the women in Y look sane by comparison.

I was just thinking about that....God, how horrible. There would be an infinite amount of dirty undies lying on bedroom floors...toiletpaper rolls would never get changed....toast and cereal would be the only food eaten...the trash would pile up in the houses, because there's no one left to do the nagging...*sigh* It would be terrible! :~P

Rogue Slayer | December 12, 22:25 CET

LOL, that's not how it would be around my house, but I imagine that it would be rampant ;p

zeitgeist | December 12, 22:29 CET

And will someone PLEEEEEZZZZ confince Fox to put The Inside on DVD? The episodes don't seem to be downloadable any more. I really want to see this series, all of it!

MissKittysMom | December 12, 22:43 CET

20th Century Fox need to put The Inside on DVD if they want the hardcore fans buying it, I suspect: I know somebody who fully intends to put all the episodes online as they've aired, including the remaining unseen ones.

gossi | December 12, 23:03 CET

Bless the Brits for their uploading goodness.

TamaraC | December 12, 23:38 CET

For those who didn't get the blonde vampire discussion, women are blondes, men are blonds.
And as for the discussion, I agree that Tim and David don't contradict each other. I have no doubt that Joss could come in, having read everything on the way to work, throw out a few suggestions that would unravel the Gordian knot, then move on to other things. They are still approaching it from having 2 different types of experiences working with Joss.

Lioness | December 12, 23:48 CET

"For those who didn't get the blonde vampire discussion, women are blondes, men are blonds."

Actually Lioness, I just compared some dictionaries because I suspected that was a distinction that was not true in the USA, and that is what I found. Merriam Webster (USA) has "blond" as either a noun or adjective without a gender differentiation and "blonde" as a variant spelling. Cambridge English (UK)has "blonde" or "blond" as the adj and "blond" as the noun and specifies it as describing a female. No mention is made of men at all. I see you are in Toronto but I did not immediately find a Canadian version, which I know is different again. Interesting language this English, ay?

newcj | December 13, 00:16 CET

Well, there's always Sunday.

Harmalicious | December 13, 01:04 CET

The Gage Cdn. dictionary says "As a noun, blond is used for men and boys while blonde is used for women and girls. The normal form of the adjective is blond for all cases but some people prefer to use blonde as an adjective when referring to women or girls."
Generally speaking, we follow the Brits in most things, but clearly not all.

Lioness | December 13, 01:13 CET

Just a note: it's Brian K Vaughan. FYI.

Secondly, he's definitely one of the hottest writers around in comics these days; and his skills at dialogue would make the jump to the small screen (and maybe the large one), I think.

Speaking only for myself, of the three books he writes regularly (Y: The Last Man, Ex Machina, Runaways (for Marvel)), only Ex Machina has clicked for me. Y bores (and on occasion repels) me, and Runaways is written for a more traditional superhero audience.

But Ex Machina is tremendous: A guy with super-powers becomes Mayor of New York, and: guess what? The job still sucks! Aaron Sorkin-level dialogue, hilarious/awful/touching situations, and a background plot that is coming out in dribs and drabs. Oh, and Tony Harris is doing the art -- the main artist behind Starman, and right up there with Cassaday. Amazing stuff.

For many Whedon fans, I think Ex Machina might be the best place to start with Vaughan's work.

bookrats | December 13, 01:15 CET

With the looking up things in dictionaries etc., I don't think I ever actually said how much I enjoyed reading this series of posts. Always interesting to hear different perspectives and get exciting news about new pilots and things.

bookrats, I totally missed the reference to Brian K. Vaughan and am too lazy and stuck for time to go back to try to find it. What is going on that triggered your post.

lioness, Sometimes Canada just has to strike out on its own, I guess. ;-) When I was traveling in Canada, I noticed that "glacier" was a good indicator of what country someone was from. Three different, very consistent pronunciations, one each for the UK, Canada and the USA were being used. Anyone from Australia care to say how it is pronounced down under?

newcj | December 13, 01:37 CET

bookrats - thanks for the reminder that I need to pick up Ex Machina in TPB.

zeitgeist | December 13, 01:42 CET

Is "the blondie bear vampire" too specific?

MissKittysMom | December 13, 01:44 CET

Fury should post here, I think ;)

Glad to hear about Tim's (possible) new show but on Fox? Hmmm, makes me think bad thoughts...

Silent Night | December 13, 02:38 CET

Didn't he say not on Fox?

I think all the Whedonverse writers should post here. ;-)

[ edited by newcj on 2005-12-13 00:47 ]

newcj | December 13, 02:47 CET

Didn't he say not on Fox?

He said: "And chances-that-it-won't-be-on-Fox... zero."

Which, ya know, bummer.

Rogue Slayer | December 13, 02:55 CET

Well, his writing deal is with Fox (as is Furys, yadada - they pay well dudes), and 20th will quite often try and sell things to Fox Broadcasting Corp first by the sounds of it. I expected nothing less. Joss' TV writing deal (although currently suspended) is also with 20th Century Fox, which could be fun.

Fox is actually a fine network to be on, if your show flys well from the get go. If not, you'll probably end up producing 13 episodes. Which doesn't always suck. You tell this tale, and then tell another tale if you don't suck at it the following year. Tim clearly doesn't suck - as Fox keep having him return with a new show each year. Sooner or later, he'll hopefully hit gold.

gossi | December 13, 02:59 CET

Fury should post here, I think ;)

Actually, he just did.

Simon | December 13, 03:25 CET

Very cool lol, I think this interview has probably caused more Buffyverse commotion than anything has in a long while (although I really think David Fury came across rather well in it, even with his "poor narration.")

rabid | December 13, 03:44 CET

It was extremely nice of him to post here and I'm thrilled as always to read what he writes.

Simon | December 13, 03:46 CET

As an enormous fan of David Fury, I'm beaming with joy that he posted here. I agree with rabid that Fury came across really well in the interview, not to mention in his w'esque post.

phlebotinin | December 13, 04:01 CET

Didn't he say not on Fox?

He said: "And chances-that-it-won't-be-on-Fox... zero."

Ahhh. I misread it. Blasted work keeps distracting me. Of, course some wishful thinking also may have been involved. ;-)

newcj | December 13, 04:08 CET

I love commotion - it has lead to all this purple-y goodness - and Tim Minear. Let's have more commotion (oops, reminds me of my two year old self but hey...if it works, don't knock it!)

Poster Boy | December 13, 05:09 CET

Most women ARE nutzos.

I'm kidding. Please stop stoning me to death.

Them's fightin' words!!!! Go Go Gadget Slap!

Anyone from Australia care to say how it is pronounced down under?

glay-see-ar

[ edited by nixygirl on 2005-12-13 04:44 ]

nixygirl | December 13, 05:43 CET

Actually, he just did.

Obviously, I was out to lunch when he posted. :) Thanks, Simon.

Silent Night | December 13, 05:45 CET

Well that interview had been lying around for a year and I bet no one foresaw the dust-stirring it caused, hehe. I feel for David though. I can totally imagine doing interviews and being surprised later how certain things came across. I think I would suck severely at it, actually. I would either run off my mouth or be SO scared of saying the wrong thing I would sound like a politician.

I love commotion - it has lead to all this purple-y goodness - and Tim Minear

I was just thinking that. More dust I'd say! Funny how this gave us the first post from Mr Fury here on the board. (Hmmm maybe Joss gave him a call: "Wachoo talkin' bout there David??" Ok, scratch that, that was just disturbing...)

Tim's take on things was helpful as well though, with clarifying the relativity of what 'involved with' can mean on something as complex as a TV show.

Oh and on 'Y', I have to say the crazy Amazon cult kinda disrupted whatever naughty fantasies one might have in being the last man on earth....

EdDantes | December 13, 06:04 CET

I was just thinking about that....God, how horrible. There would be an infinite amount of dirty undies lying on bedroom floors...toiletpaper rolls would never get changed....toast and cereal would be the only food eaten...the trash would pile up in the houses, because there's no one left to do the nagging...*sigh* It would be terrible! :~P
-rogue slayer

OK, so this was a man your talking about here? Cause, I may have to re-check what sex my daughters are?

nixygirl | December 13, 06:43 CET

nixygirl, yeah. I'm checking the sex of me now too!

electricspacegirl | December 13, 07:41 CET

So does anyone know anything about the premise of Tim's new show? I know his deal is with Fox, so that's where it has to end up. And I know he's a successful writer/director/producer kind of guy but I almost feel sorry for him. How much more can he take from Fox? The show hasn't even come on yet so it's obviously premature to talk about its cancellation. Still, though...Fox.

batmarlowe | December 13, 12:45 CET

newcj:

bookrats, I totally missed the reference to Brian K. Vaughan and am too lazy and stuck for time to go back to try to find it. What is going on that triggered your post.

Tim posts on 12/11 that he had dinner with Joss, Drew Goddard, and Brian K. Vaughan.

(Actually, I didn't notice it until RambleOn623 pointed it out. Thanks RambleOn!)

bookrats | December 13, 20:23 CET

Did I miss it, or did Tim and David both, in their respective posts re David's interview, quite properly avoid any discussion of the alleged Joss/Sarah rift?

jaynelovesvera | December 13, 22:30 CET

So, can anyone find another older interview that can be posted? I like the fallout of this as they seem to be as civilized as we are in their posts.;-)
I want more!

Lioness | December 13, 22:35 CET

Tim Minear's examples of some of Joss's specific involvements in Angel were great to read: of course it was Joss who suggested Darla stake herself. That was the most devastating moment of television I'd ever seen in Angel, and probably one of the most in anything.

Hope Tim's next show gets a better run than his previous ones. I also hope somehow The Inside gets a DVD release, as I would love to see it. I adore Wonderfalls and feel that its cancellation after only airing 4 episodes was cruel to those who worked on it, and to the audience. So glad I saw it on DVD (and then eventually it did get shown over here).

Kiddo | December 14, 04:09 CET

December 12 2005