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January 05 2006

Astonishing X-Men Saga #1 out today. It's a recap of Joss Whedon and John Cassaday's first 12 issues in one handy (or pointless) one-shot. Think of the entire season of Firefly condensed into one episode and you've got an idea what it might be like.

But then Astonishing X-Men could be the only Joss product out in 2006. Issue 13 is out in February and I'm looking forward to it.

And btw what happened to the hardcover collection of the first 12 issues that was supposed be out in December?

I'm going with money grab and pointless for the win, Simon. looking forward to the continued run of AXM with the very cool JW/JC one-two punch.

ETA - The two TPBs are of course available. Issue #13 looks due 22nd February as you say, but can't find any mention of the hardcover into March at least. Looks like they are reprinting it in flip books, though.
Lol. Although I already own all the monthly books, as well as both TPB's, I'm also getting this one-shot and the hardcover. What can I say? I'm a completist.

Besides, Joss Whedon and Emma Frost is a combination that I can't say no to. Okay, Joss and anything is a combo that I can't say no to, but still... :-D

[ edited by Emma Frost on 2006-01-05 10:42 ]
I passed on the TPBs and was hoping to get the hardcover at some stage this decade. And yeah I'll be getting the one-shot too. I give in too easily despite Marvel's attempt to milk the X-Men cash cow.

Though in Marvel's defence, I'm more impressed by their Decimation titles than DC's Infinite Crisis tie-ins. Generation M, Son Of M and X-Men: Deadly Genesis have been really good so far.

I'm wondering if Joss had to change any of his upcoming plots as a result of House of M. From what I remember reading, Marvel didn't exactly keep him in the loop over what was going to happen.
I think that might be why Joss waited a while before going ahead with AXM 13, since he likes to stay faithful to continuity. I'm surprised that Marvel didn't keep him in the loop, though. Wasn't AXM doing really well for them? You'd think that - due to that - they would keep him up to date.

Unless the arc takes place before HoM...
You can read about Marvel not keeping him in the loop in this CHUD interview.
Long time lurker, first time poster so hi all.

Without spoiling the comics, I was interested to see in the X-Men 3 trailer that some of the plot points seem to be pretty similar to Joss's run on AXM. Did he originate these or is it part of some multi-media super excel GT (+) cross-over that the X books seem so fond of (partly why i'm not a big fan) ?
I'm also looking forward to Astonishing #13. Can't wait for that second year Joss run. I probably won't be getting the overview comic, unless it happens to turn up at my local comicbook shop in which case I probably won't be able to resist buying it.

As for the whole House-of-M thing, I've seen the comics at the comic shop, but these multi-title huge crossover things allways confuse the hell out of me in the single issue stands. I stopped reading marvel comics (mostly because they were piling up due to lack of time, and because it seemed a good place to stop) after the Onslaught saga, and have only recently returned to them for JMS's run on Spiderman and Joss' run on X-Men (apart from the occassional TPB I'd pick up).

So, is there any chance that when this whole crossover is over and done with, it's gonna be brought out in (a)comprehensive "House of M" TPB('s)? I'd like to give the big storyline a chance, again. Oh, and: is House of M at all confusing if you're only very slightly up to date on recent marvelverse events?

(hmm, this got pretty long).
I'm not a huge fan of the giant crossover thing either. It was cool when I was 12 because I got to see Captain America, Spiderman, and Wolverine fight together as a team, but now that's the New Avengers so is has less appeal. Not to mention that if history has showed us anything it's that events that happen after one of these huge crossoevers only lasts about a year until someone decides to revert things back to "normal" making them nealy pointless.

When it comes to House of M I've read most of it and the only one worthwhile was the 8 issue miniseries written by Bendis and the big spoilers that happened at the end of it are SPOILER

GVH It will probably be at least a bit confusing if you havn't been keeping up with the Avengers book (which I havn't) but Bedis explains it rather well.

The cover for this TPB is rather funny, but seeing as how I own all of the single issues I won't be buying it. I was under the impression that with Astonishing Joss was given free reign to do just about whatever the hell he wanted to do so I don't expect the House of M to plan too heavily into it.
Looks like a way for Marvel to squeeze more money out of the first 12 issues.
GVH It will probably be at least a bit confusing if you havn't been keeping up with the Avengers book (which I havn't) but Bedis explains it rather well.

Right. I haven't done that either. In fact, I was surprised to read that Captain Amerika, Spiderman and Wolverine are now on one team. Heh. So this Bendis story is worth while, I take it. Still not sure if it's wise to try to get a hold of one single story out of the whole House of M thing without reading the rest. Guess I'll just have to do some internet research on how the whole thing fits together.
So this Bendis story is worth while, I take it.

I wouldn't go that far. However his Ultimate Spiderman tales are top notch and he is Marvel's only writer (or seems to be).
GVH, you can definitely read just the main "House of M" mini, and then pick and choose what else of the very many tie-ins, if any, you pick up. Although, overall, I'm far more impressed by the aftermath than the actual event. Some of that Decimation stuff is just downright cool.
The main House of M mini by Bendis was in my opinion the only one of the House of M story lines that was worth it. Some of the others were alright, some of them I thought downright sucked, but none of them really tied in with the main story plot, they were seperate entities and story threads so you get to pick and choose which ones you want really. (In fact some of them contradict each other, or at least seem to.)

Bendis isn't Marvel's only writer but he is indeed prolific. (Marvel now has an exclusive with Robert Kirkman, a writer I also love to death) For what it's worth I never miss Ultimate Spiderman, but his best work by far is Powers. Holy hell that book is good.
The hardcover is going to be out just in time to coincide with the big movie release in May, and it'll be available with two different covers--probably one featuring Cassaday art, and one more 'respectable' looking for placement in bookstores, like DC has been doing with some books.
Looking forward to new issues. I've got most of the original issues and the two TPBs and I'll be getting the hardcover too. Two covers for the hardcover? Pfff... what a pain in the ass. Now I have to choose which one I want my comic shop to order for me...
When Marvel annouced that Joss and John would be on for another 'year', didn't they originally say 'year' = through issue 25? Now, the book has gone bi-monthly (bummer, but at least we know the delays have been pre-worked in) and 'year' now just means another six-issue arc for the creative team. But does anyone know if they'll contine to 25 like announced before or just 18?
CaptainB the consensus seems to be that Joss will be onto issue 25. I think Joss may have said as well in the last two months but there's been umpteen zillion interview with him recently so I can't be sure.
Saw this on the shelf and decided to pass... I can't wait for this House of M and Decimation garbage to be over and for Astonishing to come back. Unfortunately, House of M, is not as cohesive as DC's Crisis by its nature and just seem like one big collection of "What If" stories.
I am very disappointed in Marvel Comics, the company that publishes Mr. Whedon's comic book, The Astonishing X-Men.

I was at Wizard World Chicago a few years ago when a young comic fan at a discussion panel asked the Editor-In-Chief, Joe Quesada, a question. "Mr. Quesada, I've been reading and collecting comics for a couple years and I wanted to know why Marvel "re-launched" The Punisher comic book with a new #1 issue FOUR TIMES in the last year and a half? Not to mention all of the "flag ship" titles like Spiderman, Uncanny X-Men and Hulk that were also re-launched as number 1 issues with the same names."

Joe Quesada's answer was short, "We make more money selling number one issues."

Joe Quesada is supposed to be the custodian of something much, much greater than himself. He has sold out the history of these long running titles to make a few bucks. Historically these types of promotions spike sales and then they go back to normal 1 to 2 issues later.

Titles like Amazing Spiderman, for example, were approaching milestone issue #500. So he re-issued the series as a number one issue and then a few years later decides he can get a sales pop again by going back to the original numbering that he ditched just a couple years before.

His current shareholders love him but history will prove he's a shnook for taking advantage of the fans.

I bring all of this up becase this Joss Astonishing X-Men one-shot is just another example of Marvel (or Stinky Quesada)squeezing the fans. As any comic collector will tell you, renumbering becomes an organizational nightmare.

You will never see DC comics take a title like Batman and say, "hmmmm we're at issue 700 of our very popular title that has been running since the 1940's, lets start it over at issue #1 to make an extra 10% one time."

BOO Joe Quesada, you evil, evil man. (Maybe thats a good idea for the next Joss book....the big bad is totally Joe Quesada)
Don't want to get into a whole discussion whether Joe is evil, but just a few things:
When Joe started as EIC, Marvel was literally bankrupt, so they needed every little boos they could get (and Joe succesfully helped bring Marvel out of that bankrupcy, too).
A few little cult series (we know about those here, don't we?) like Runaways and She-Hulk have received significant boosts from such restarts, helping them keep afloat.
Hell, most magazines renumber every year, with January being #1 of a new volume--why is it a crime when comics do it?
Joe is blunt about the truth of it, and personally, I appreciate that kind of answers.
Crap. Now I'm getting into a whole discussion after all, aren't I? I'd better stop typing now.
I would like to point out that re-starting a B or C level hero series like She-Hulk is not the same as "re-starting" currently popular titles with numbered runs in the 300's and 400's like Amazing Spiderman, Incredible Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man, X-Men, etc, etc, etc. He is messing with something very serious.

Comic Books have a rich history and to openly admit that he can make more money (in the very short term) to boost a stock price by throwing away a tradition that has survived for over 4 decades is bad news. Its a crime to re-number because it makes it impossible for enthusiasts to find and categorize issues.

What would people say if George Steinbrenner decided that the New York Yankees were to change their colors to Purple and Orange because he is convinced it will make headlines and people will flock to see it?

It's not good enough for Marvel to sell the same material in 4 different formats, they need to put out a Cliff many times are they going to sell the same comic book with a different ("variant") cover? They are going to drive the customers away.

He has been entrusted as the custodian of a univerally loved institution and he has treated her like the whore of Babalon. And all so the cover can say, "EXCITING FIRST ISSUE!!!"
Newsflash, alexreager, this sort of thing was happening all of the time in the 90's. Why do you think it was called the Spectators age?

Most of the titles have returned to their original numberings. Name one that hasn't. Numbering is hardly a tradition anyway. You know that they were all numbered wrong originally? A few months late each time.

Runaways was renumbered because the first series had indeed ended. Same with She Hulk. And Fantastic Four. And Iron Man. And the Avengers. Remember Heroes Reborn? And Spider-Man--Peter gave up being Spider-Man. They decided to end it there, and start anew for new readers (and obviously the boost a new issue one brings). They aren't abandoning continuity. They aren't pretending it didn't happen. They're just changing the number on the front cover (and the one on the inside that says vol. 2).

I mean, Marvel is a business. Okay. Everyone knows that. Their first goal: make money. Second goal: bring in new fans. Third goal: keep the old fans happy.

Going by your logic, Astonishing X-Men should be up to issue fifteen by now. Nineteen if you include the AoA comic with the same name.

And, actually, DC did do that with a lot of their titles post-Crisis. So. Particuarly Wonder Woman and Superman. The latter is returning to it's original numbering after Crisis.

But. Yeah. As long as his next arc is better than Dangerous. Which would have been great as three issues. But six? No thanks.

As for House of M v Infinite Crisis? The two stories are very different trying to achieve different results. I'm just glad it's finally giving the X-Books a direction. It'd be nice to see tighter continuity now. Not like it was in the 90's, but maybe if the books could acknowledge each other like New X-Men: Academy X and Uncanny do.

It's a shame Bendis doesn't handle the Team Thing very well, I really wanted to like Avengers Disassembled. It was crap though. And House of M could have been five issues long. It really should have tied into the miniseries more. His character based work is top notch though.
GVH, you can definitely read just the main "House of M" mini, and then pick and choose what else of the very many tie-ins, if any, you pick up. Although, overall, I'm far more impressed by the aftermath than the actual event. Some of that Decimation stuff is just downright cool.

Okay, thanks for the tip guys! I'll be picking up the "House of M" mini and go on from there, if I feel so inclined.

He is messing with something very serious.

Its a crime to re-number

He has been entrusted as the custodian of a univerally loved institution and he has treated her like the whore of Babalon.

Let's not get carried away now, shall we? It's numbers on a cover. Problems with the interior, sure, but the numbering? Truly not that big of an issue, I'd think. I'd say it's mostly a problem for the die-hard collector, and these people probably all have internet acces where they can organise and make lists and all that stuff.

Is there something to say for keeping the numbering the same? Sure. But not doing is certainly no 'crime'.
I agree Gouki, Bendis is way better on solo books.. Daredevil has been amazing, especially in the past year while New Avengers (Marvel's current cash cow) is kinda ho-hum. If you want to see the direction that Marvel is headed, go to a con. When you get there, check out both the Marvel and DC panels, do a quick estimation of the headcount. There will most likely be significantly more people in the DC panel, and that is a new trend that should tell the folks at Marvel that something needs to change.
The only thing that bugs me about numbering is when they restart at a really odd number. I've been reading Wolvereine since around issue 75 or so. One month I get issue #189 in the mail, next month I get #1. If they'd have just waited one more issue it'd have been a nice round 190 which would have made me only slightly more sane when it came time to try and figure out what issue I'm currently on.
Hilariously this could be our longest ever comic book thread about a comic book but no one has actually commented on the book itself.

I bought it.

It's rubbish.

Even worse than I imagined.

Utterly utterly pointless.
True, I laid it on a little thick, I admit that. However, there is no such thing as a casual comic-book fan or reader in todayís marketplace. (I am sure there will be responses by people saying that they only pick up an issue or two here an are in the minority.) The vast majority of comics are purchased by DIE HARD fans. And the die-hard fans are the ones concerned about re-numbering CLASSIC titles. I own roughly 25,000 comics. According to the longest running comic related publication, Comics Buyers Guide, this amount is the AVERAGE number of comics a typical fan has in their collection. I believe it IS a crime to re-number for the stated purpose of making a buck in the short term. Meanwhile they make it hard for their core audience to support their product line. I own about 1,000 Spiderman books alone. It was a ROYAL pain in the butt to re-organize to accommodate all the changes. Not only that, but I have stopped purchasing many of the Marvel books as a result. So here is a real life example of how their short term greed has disillusioned a long term fan.

Further, if Marvel markets Joss' Astonishing X-Men number 13 as a Vol.2, #1 in my book that is acceptable. But if Joss were not the original creator and was simply taking the helm of the book (for those who donít know, this is a common practice for a new creative team to take over a title) at say issue 200, it would not be acceptable to re-number from number one. There's 200 issues of continuity that collectors use to find issues they missed. As an example, I dare anyone to go out and try to compile a list for the order of issues for a character like The Punnisher which has had like 8 different incarnations. Itís next to impossible.
If anyone is so concerned about complete runs, chances are they buy them as they come out or when they go out hunting for them should be armed with the knolwedge or the various volumes.

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