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January 16 2006

What do you want to see in a "Spike" TV movie? SFX are taking suggestions for a future edition of this regular feature (free reg. required).

This is one of SFX's better features, any one with even a remote interest in the future of the Buffyverse should have a go.
I'll tell you right here what it definately has got to have. Drusilla in the present and the woodstock flashback. Ever since School hard I'v been waiting to see that thing.
SpikeBad I'd only want very few evil flashbacks, but I have to admit that StonedWoodstock!Spike would be a hoot. Having seen a picture of JM's hair grown out and in a massive afro it could be *very* amusing. :0)
Spike movie needs two things. Drusilla and Drusilla. Nothing more. Them walking down a road for 2 hours would be pure genius and if u slap Joss's name onto it, it goes into the Television hall of fame; if there is one. Spike and Dru......that's why Season 2 of Buffy was one of the best.
Must. Have. Drucilla.

I'm seeing a pattern here.
Whatever it takes to get Illryia and Andrew, maybe Faith.

[ edited by two_guns on 2006-01-16 21:36 ]
Drusilla definately HAS to appear in some shape or form.
I really want to see her interact with the souled Spike.
Now that Michelle Trachtenberg is legal...

/one ticket, aisle seat please
God, the possibilites are endless.

But I gotta say, I cant decide whether I'd prefer a Spike/Dru movie or a Spike/Illyria one.

Actually I have decided

Spike/Dru all the way.
I'd like Spike to have final closure with Dru. I can just picture the look on her face when she realises that Spike has a soul.

I also want to see Xander.
I just had this Angel S6 vision of Drusilla confronting Spike and Angel, both with souls. Poor Dru. She had resigned herself to Spike being lost, but it would still be tough.

Now I'm thinking of the dynamic of Spike with a soul meeting Dru with Illyria around. I have to think about that. It seems full of possibilities...maybe too many.
Personally, i think a Spike/Dru/Illyria movie is the only way to go.

Set it in two or three different time periods, one being after Not Fade Away, and tell a self contained story (rather than tying it directly into anything we saw in Buffy or Angel) of an event in Spike and Dru's relationship. The beginning could be soon after Spike becomes a vampire, where the two cross the path of some kind of powerful demon. The middle part set at some point in the mid twentieth century, at which time they come across this demon again, only to seriously piss him off. Then the final part set in the present day, where Dru is forced to seek Spike out in order to help her against said pissed off demon, who is looking for a little payback. Having Illyria along form the ride would be the icing on the cake. I'd love to see how Illyria and Dru reacted to one another, with Spike stook in the middle.
That and Drusilla getting the Shanshu at the end of the movie. That'd be a killer ending.
These Spike, Dru, Illyria thoughts put me in one of the happiest places I've been lately. (Happy sigh.)
Y'know, it would be very easy for me to edit my last post and disguise the error forever but i think a spelling mistake of that level of stupidity deserves to be noted. How the hell my brain told my fingers that "stuck" was to be typed "stook" i have absolutely no idea!

English. Who needs it, huh? Soooo overrated! :)
The thoughts of Spike and Dru in a movie......I haven't gotten this excited since Serenity was greenlit, or when Buffy was going "back to the beginning" or when Angel was greenlit for spin-off status. I hope Joss is reading!
"That and Drusilla getting the Shanshu at the end of the movie. That'd be a killer ending"

Oh god yes. That would royally kick ass, and would just be and absoloute hilariously painful twist.

Course she'd have to get a soul first.
I'd love to see Dru confront Spike now he has a soul. But apart from the above mentioned Woodstock flashback no, absolutely no, none, nada evil Spike. It's not where he's at. Been done, move on.

I like the idea of conflict with Dru and having Spike about to stake her when she screams "Angel!" Spike stops short as he needs to know what she knows about his whereabouts.

This leads of course to much angsting about his lost love Angel and how he can find him with his trusty new sidekick Xander. Course, Xander's none to keen on finding Angel, as he wants Spike to himself.
I, too, would love to see Spike/Drusilla in a movie set in present. (the Woodstock flashback would be a great bonus, also what happened in PRague)
And St Petersburg. ;0)
also what happened in PRague

That was well done in Tales of the Vampire, which I consider canon.
I think i'm the only one who doesn't care for Drusilla. I never thought of her as good enough for Spike. As to what i would like to see. Euh, i guess post-nfa, different settings, fighting the good fight. Hopefully with Illyria, now that is my dream-team.
Two of the strongest fighters,warriors together finding their way, path on this earth.
Or Spike being transformed in to the "Slayer of slayers".
He could be a balance demon who is neither good or evil.
I refuse to believe that all those slayers(hunderds or thousends) are going to be good little chosen one's. Those who are empowered are more corruptable. Spike could be chosen to take care of these little problems. Of course he's gonna neat a powerboost.

I'm preferring the ideas here to the ones over on the SFX board, amazed at the amount that most want to see a prequel. I really would consider any prequels to be a waste of an oppurtunity, and a waste of 7 years of character development.

I'd still watch it, but I'd just be thinking it could have been so much better.

ExoticMushroom said:
"I like the idea of conflict with Dru and having Spike about to stake her when she screams "Angel!" Spike stops short as he needs to know what she knows about his whereabouts.

This leads of course to much angsting about his lost love Angel and how he can find him with his trusty new sidekick Xander. Course, Xander's none to keen on finding Angel, as he wants Spike to himself. "

Really like the initial idea, the one about Spike not knowing of Angel's whereabouts and wanting to track him down, and Drusilla knowing where he is.

Just gets scary after that! We'd need a new shippy name, I submit Spangelder for consideration, and if Drusilla starts yearning for Spike again during the journey, then Spangeldersilla, and if Illyria pops up..... I'll shut up now.

[ edited by Ghost Spike on 2006-01-16 23:41 ]
First of all, I'm thrilled that SFX is keeping the dream alive. This appears in their print magazine too, not just here online. As for what I'd like to see is story where Spike is front and center taking place sometime after NFA.
I don't want to see evil Spike again. He's more interesting with a soul. But I'm not sure I want to see what happends after Not Fade Away. I might like to see Spike right after he gets his soul. The months between when he gets his soul in Grave and when Buffy sees him in Lessons.
I'd like to see the Spike Movie set after NFA . I was interested in the post-apocalyptic scenario that was mentioned by the writers as an idea for Ats 6 - with a still alive Gunn and maybe Illyria as Spike's companions.
I was interested in the post-apocalyptic scenario.

I'm interested in that but then it is a question of budget. Joss may want $5 million to make the movie, he may only get half (obviously I'm picking these figures out of the air).
In a 2 hour movie, we should be able to get snarky Spike as well as sincere even hurting Spike. I too would love to see Drusilla again but while I toyed with the idea of her souled, I think her craziness is only tolerable for her while she is a vampire. To be crazy and religious, with all that guilt, she'd kill herself right away. Of course, Joss does have this tendancy to kill off people and then Spike could brood nicely for awhile.
So yes! Bring Dru back, give her a soul, kill her off, let Spike find comfort with Illyria.
reg. required? I got to the site without registering.

Of cource i'd love any buffyverse movie,(except for a bad one perhaps, cause i like my movies to be good) but i'd pick Giles, Xander, Faith, Oz, Angel or Illyria over Spike.

I understand the people who love NFA and think a post NFA setting would ruin it, because I love it too, and think it was a beautifull way to end Angel. And people who want to save that for the big screen. But i think that if a spike movie could get made, it should be the best movie possible (i like good movies) and I think it has to be set after NFA for that.

And i got really :O when i read the post about Spike beeing underused in Buffy s7 (on the SFX board) He almost had more screentime than all the scoobies together.

[ edited by the Groosalugg on 2006-01-17 00:55 ]
Not to get into it too much Groo, but nah. The Potentials, whom I loathed apart from Vi, took up the lions share of screentime from all the existing characters bar Buffy. *kicks potentials* grrrr. ;0)

I think the only logical time for a Spike movie, as this is who we're talking about at the moment, or any other character based movie that might follow after, has to be set after NFA. It's meant to be a continuation of the verse, not a retread.

Ghost Spike LOL!!! I love ship names, they're so much fun. Spangel, Spander. I like Spangelesley too. But the funniest one has to be the one for Angel and Nina, Angina. :0)
Spike/Dru interaction is interesting, Spike/Illyria interaction is interesting, but the three of them together is... not. IMO of course.
Spike is what sucked me into this crazy online world, and Spike is what I miss the most.

So I just hope that whatever it is, it is focused on Spike. His journey, his story, his feelings.

I really want a bit of happiness for him, but I won't hold my breath. I wouldn't mind seeing Illyria again, but I don't want another buffy/river superchick character with Spike as a sidekick. Not that there's anything wrong with those, I just want Spike this time.

Not a big Faith fan, hot in Dirty Girls, great in the Angel crossovers, but everytime I watch Season 3 I just can't see her as redeemed. Hated all the Faith/Wood waste of time.

I would like some Drusilla as well, for the hotness if nothing else, but I really want post NFA as well as flashbacks.

I wouldn't mind, Gunn, Xander, Giles, Andrew, Willow,Dawn (NOT as love interest though) really almost anyone. Okay, not Eve.

Spike. God I hope so.
Didn't Joss mention how he'd write a comic and have Spike's story bleed into it? I am more interested in present/future souled Spike than anything in the past. Besides, Marsters has proved that he has chemistry with everyone, so whoever they decide to put in the movie with him will work..
Spike and Xander pleeeeease!
Groo, I believe the registration requirement is if you actually want to post your ideal scenario to SFX on their board.
I vote for Spike/Illyria... but I confess that there's a slight ulterior motive in that selection. I'm hoping and praying for any (good) opportunity to get some more Wesley, and Illyria went off the air with what appeared to be genuine emotion at his loss, so it's reasonable to imagine she might have some way of seeking him out.

Now what I DON'T want to see is some cheap, uninspired, unoriginal resurrection. But I believe that Joss & Co. can come up with something unique and interesting.
Sometimes I feel like the only one shouting out into cyberspace about how I just don't give a rat's about Spike. I can understand why people love him, but I would rather even see a Kennedy 'verse movie than another fixation upon Spike.
(Oh God, did I really just say I would rather see a Kennedy movie? I will flame myself for that one.)
But Illyria yes... if they could incorporate that idea of bringing Fred back as well.
You aren't the only one shouting it into cyberspace, but you are probably the only one to post about it in this particular thread, given it's topic.

And I appreciate that fact. Time and place for everything and all that.

And I'll fan that flame for you.
Well I definitely would love a Spike movie. I'd also want it to be set post NFA as my real interest these days is in souled Spike as I feel the flashbacks we've had have filled in his background enough and I want to see what he does finally out on his own away from Buffy and Angel.
I would definatly like to see something that leads into a new Buffyverse series. Make a movie centered around Spike going around and putting together his own "crew". Throw in some new faces with some old fav's like Illyria and Wesley. I REALLY want to see Wesley come back to help Spike. By the end of the movie they can have formed a new team and be ready to launch into a series.
Marsters has said he wants to be the main star of a Spike movie and thats only fair. Make him that star. And then in the series there is no end to re-occuring charactors that you could have. Faith, Xander, Oz, Lorne, you name it. They don't all have to be regulars. Make Spike the regular and bring the others in as they are available.
Wesley is my favorite character, but they should bring him back only if it is good for the story. There is only so many times you can bring back characters from the dead. Characters I would like to see in our hopeful movie about our favorite blonde vampire with a soul: Illyria, Giles, Dru, Xander, Faith, Andrew, Harmony. I would like the bulk of the movie to be post NFA, but a few flash backs to evil Spike would be great, to establish Spike and Dru's relationship. Oh, and Dru finding out Spike has a soul...hell yes! For another movie that doesn't focus on Spike...perhaps our Wesley does come back from the dead and becomes a watcher again...and perhaps a certain brunette slayer falls hard for this hot watcher....and perhaps Illyria does NOT like this at all. Just you know...perhaps.
I would love a Spike/Illyria movie--which a touch of Fred thrown in. However, I agree, Spike should be the main lead. Since I loved all the actors in Buffyverse and Angelverse (except a large percentage of the potentials), I would be happy to see any of these familiar faces in the movie. How many years do we have till Marsters says no go? Reading everyone's ideas (well maybe not Spike with an Afro) makes me very excited about all the possibilities.
I want any Spike movie to be set in the post NFA time frame
as I need to know that my hero survived the battle in that

As for other characters in the film, I am ok with maybe
Illyria and a few others, but I firmly believe a Spike
movie...should be just that...a movie about Spike. His
character should shine...front and center.

I guess I am a sentimental romantic, but I would love to see
a reunion with Buffy. So much of what Spike became had to do
with his love for her. Though I realize SMG will probably
not be available, I think they could at least mention or
hint to the fact that Buffy has found out Spike is alive
again, and I hope that there could be a suggestion that they
will find each other.

More than anything though, if this is the last we ever see
of Spike( but I hope it isn't) I would love it if the movie
lets us know that Spike is still out there fighting the good
fight, and has become his own man with a purpose. No
regression of character and no evil Spike. He has come too
far to go back now. If we get some hope for happiness for
Spike, and we know he will keep going...then I will be

After 7 years of character development and a truly
remarkable journey, I think Spike at least deserves that!!!!

Now if Joss and James can just find the time to make this would be wonderful!!!!
I would love it if the movie lets us know that Spike is still out there fighting the good fight, and has become his own man with a purpose.

With you there. I would not like to see a romantic Spike reunion with Buffy. I never bought Buffy genuinely loving Spike. I still think she and Angel are each other's great love. Remember Buffy in season 7, "I loved Angel more than I will ever love anything else in the world." And Angel in his Season 4 fantasy having sex with Cordelia - whose name he calls out? These are two people (or a person and an undead thing) who have not let go of each other. And if Spike believed he truly had a chance with Buffy, why wouldn't he go to see her once he was restored to life and solidity?

I would like to see the Buffy/Spike relationship resolved with them meeting as friends and comrades, Spike realizing that his love for Buffy was the catalyst that put him on the journey to regaining his soul, but that now he has to continue the journey himself - indeed his own man, and of course leaving open possibilites for other romantic developments. Personally, I thought the chemistry between Spike and Faith crackled, assuming that thing with Robin Wood doesn't last. Two souls on a journey of redemption...

Dru is a necessity since her story was left open in the 'verse, but hopefully not a lot of her. I found her babble tiresome. Flashback to the Woodstock scene would FANTASTIC.

One other thing - we keep hearing from JM about the window of opportunity closing because he will be too old to play an age-less vampire. But what if, when he got his soul back, the demon also restored his natural aging? That would not only extend the window, but leave openings for a spot if other Buffyverse projects develop in the future.
A Spike movie with characters like Illyria would be fab. And for the love of Joss, would they please let Buffy know that Spike is alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What kind of movie would it be, if you couldn't see everyone post NFA, or the big fight for that matter. Let's give some credit to Joss; he's known for putting his characters through some incredebly tuff times, and what kind of story arc would there be for Spike without Angel driving him crazy?
To do a movie about Spike, and do it well, I belive it should be pre-NFA. Take everything we saw in the shows, and shoot different sceens from Spike's angle. What life was like living in Buffy's house, and what it was like working for Angel. But without showing either one of them. Show the personal torment that he went through to get to the Vamp that went out not once but twice to fight an apocalypse. A narrative of Spike's life, his and Dru's relationship and how it shaped him and his future. Maybe explain why Angel is still tormented over his past, and Spike was able to get over it in a matter of a couple of days. I know Spike has evolved as a character, but I'd like to see the story Joss has for him.
If I see anything post NFA, I like for it to be big screen, starting right in that alley with the whole team, Gunn, Spike, Illyria, and Angel, and then an army of slayers showing up to help. But to do something like that, there'd have to be a very dramatic ending. Joss isn't the type to go all fairy tales and happy endings on us. That's not why we love him. Harsh emotional pain is why his characters are so real and important to us.
First and foremost for me I would like some kind of resolution to the Buffy Question (either implied or shown). Unlike many, I don't buy into the "Angel is her one and only true love" school of thought simply because, seriously, how many people would still want to be with their high school honey at 25+? I would hope Buffy (like any of us) would grow up as she continues baking and her needs and place in the world change. That said, I also don't think she and Spike belong together. She never treated him the way he deserved to be treated, but I still want some resolution there.

Next, I do think we need some resolution with Dru because after Crush she just disappeared. She was a big part of Spike's life and it'd be nice to see what happened to her.

But most of all, I'd like to see something set post-NFA with Spike and Andrew. They have great comic chemistry -- well James could have chemistry with a block of cement, but still -- and I think with Andrew being trained as a Watcher, it brings in all kinds of potential (small "p" ;-) for stories. Am I crazy to think (pray) for a series?

Also, as to the age always seemed a non-issue to me. Heck, the guy was a resurected ghost. Maybe something about re-corporealizing him is causing him to age at a normal human rate. Problem solved.
And for the love of Joss, would they please let Buffy know that Spike is alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joss rules!

Joss rules!, Buffy knows Spike is alive (well not alive-alive cause he's still the undead) if Andrew is to be trusted. He passes on a message from her to Spike and Angel in "The Girl in Question." And Andrew couldn't be lying cause THAT'S never happened before.

Miss Edith, I like your Spike/Andrew idea. They did have great comic chemistry. A series...oh yeah!
I also want the Spike movie to be post NFA. I'm interested in souled Spike's continued journey, so no going back over old ground. Maybe Spike could be a free-lance 'slayer trainer' for the new Council headed by Giles. I'd love to see Andrew as his totally incongruous 'mentor' at the Council. Spike would only take on council jobs so that he could finance his real obsession - searching for Angel. And he finally finds him, but in his pure, unsouled demon form, like how he was in Pylea. This way, we could have the character of Angel without having to have DB, since we know he's not interested. I think the depiction of souled Spike struggling to resoul Angel could be very interesting with alot of opportunity for growth through exploring their long & complex relationship.

I have no interest in Spuffy, so I'd like to see him in a completely new relationship. One full of humor, romance, a little angst & lots of sex!
Unlike many, I don't buy into the "Angel is her one and only true love" school of thought simply because, seriously, how many people would still want to be with their high school honey at 25+? I would hope Buffy (like any of us) would grow up as she continues baking and her needs and place in the world change.

Well, I've known couples who met as high school sweethearts and have had long and happy marriages. Sometimes two people really are just right together. Harry Potter's parents met in the equivalent of high school. Just look at the way Buffy lights up, like a Christmas tree, when Angel comes on the scene in Season 7. She never had that glow with Spike, which is why I don't see them together.

And Buffy has particularly special needs in a relationship - a guy who isn't threatened by her being stronger, can deal with her lifestyle, can fight alongside her, because anyone close to Buffy gets in danger, not to mention being able to relate to the whole, had to crawl out of a coffin thing, because that's a pretty intense experience. There just isn't that big a pool of possible mates. Plus, let's face it, even with an army of slayers and friends and all, Buffy is in a pretty dangerous profession, and chances are good she's not going to make it to a ripe, old age. She doesn't have the leisure to just keep on ... baking, indefinitely. She and Angel have had several years now apart, and other relationships and the chance to grow as individuals and learn about themselves.

I kind of picture them like the romantic heroes in Far From the Madding Crowd, having gone their necessary difficult paths apart, coming together in "that substantial affection" as Hardy puts it:

"This good-fellowship -- CAMARADERIE -- usually occurring through similarity of pursuits, is unfortunately seldom superadded to love between the sexes, because men and women associate, not in their labours, but in their pleasures merely. Where, however, happy circumstance permits its development, the compounded feeling proves itself to be the only love which is strong as death -- that love which many waters cannot quench, nor the floods drown, beside which the passion usually called by the name is evanescent as steam."

Or put another way, the couple that slays together, stays together.

But the curse issue has to be genuinely addressed. Like with Spike's aging it could be resolved easily enough - when Willow re-ensouled Angel the third time with her great magical power she was able to negate the happiness clause. What doesn't work is having him come on and ignoring the whole issue, which is what I didn't like about his appearance in Season 7. Just, let's get back together, ignoring the whole turned evil, had to be killed, resurrected, walking away into the shadows because they could never have a real relationship (ie sex) heartbreak. That just cheapened everything they went through together in seasons 1-3. It's like someone coming on at the end of Romeo and Juliet and saying "Feud? There was never any feud."
"Or put another way, the couple that slays together, stays together."

Uhhh...forgive me here...but wasn't the couple that slayed together...Buffy and Spike????? Not Buffy and Angel. I think Angel was barely around for the last 4 years. Angel did his slaying with his gang and Cordelia actually....
If Buffy had a partner and someone who 'had her back' in a fight it was Spike.

I don't want to hash up shipper issues here...I just want to see some resolution of whether Buffy knows for sure that Spike is back. I don't know about anyone else, but just Andrew's comments in TGIQ did not convince me.

Honestly...I don't think Whedon intends for either vamp to have Buffy...even if she loved them both. Perhaps Joss just finally wanted Buffy to have the chance to live a 'normal' life....and thats what I thought Spike gave his life for. And THAT is why I feel that Spike has a lot more Buffy issues to resolve than Angel does. By the end of Angel Season 5 Angel had moved on from Buffy and into a new relationship with Nina. Spike, however did not....

More than anything though...I just want to see Spike move forward with his life, and not be stuck in limbo forever. He came too far to go backwards...So it's future Spike for me!
I don't think Whedon intends for either vamp to have Buffy...even if she loved them both. Perhaps Joss just finally wanted Buffy to have the chance to live a 'normal' life....and thats what I thought Spike gave his life for. And THAT is why I feel that Spike has a lot more Buffy issues to resolve than Angel does. By the end of Angel Season 5 Angel had moved on from Buffy and into a new relationship with Nina. Spike, however did not....

That's some insightful commentary, kls, and (excluding some ambiguities thrown up by Angel's behavior in "The Girl in Question,") I agree pretty much entirely with your statement. Which may be a first. ;)
Thank you SNT....I appreciate your comment.
Barboo -- see your points. All perfectly legit, and I don't want to start a Bangel vs Spuffy fight as I agree Spuffy isn't happening either. But I'd like to briefly posit one other notion regarding the Buffy/Angel relationship.

Given that earning his soul (a la Spike in Grave) is now a known possibility -- and if Spike knew about it, one would have to assume it was a known possibility for some time in the demon world -- clearly Angel sees his soul's impermanence (the curse) as part of his own mission of redemption. If he didn't see it that way, why not just go to Lurkey and earn his soul back and to heck with this curse thing once and for all? I'd argue because that's not part of his Hero's Journey.

So my theory is that if Angel TRULY wanted to be with Buffy, Spike's very presence and earned soul have shown him that being with her (physically as well as emotionally) is possible and he's chosen NOT to go there. He's elected instead to continue his mission in his own way because THAT is his Hero's Journey.

The thing I've also thought is that unlike Spike, Angelus would simply not seek his soul. Angelus has no humanity left in him (per the Judge) and no desire to be more than a killer. I think even if someone chipped Angelus, he would not choose the path Spike chose because even as a vampire, Liam was a fundamentally different creature than William. William retained 90% of his humanity and the chip just brought the good guy inside the demon back to the fore. Angelus has no such good guy hiding inside and Angel knows that.

IMO. :-)
Ah everyone forgets about Riley :(. I liked him, he was every man.
Uh...I think everyone want's to forget Riley.
So, Simon, are you saying you want to see Riley in a Spike movie? They did have good chemistry together, maybe better than Riley had with Buffy. ;-)
kathylovesspike--interesting comments. I too would like to have Spike shown talking to Buffy on the phone (SMG wouldn't have to appear) or hire an excellent actress to play Buffy as an elderly woman and let Buffy/Spike talk to each other.

Above all else, I wanted that reunion on screen (when she saw him alive) but since Gellar isn't available for that, I gave up on it. I think most people's ideas for Spike come with that knowledge in mind. Doesn't mean that many of us don't wish for it. ;)
I agree with KLS, Joss doesn't want Buffy to be with either Angel or Spike. Joss said that when they were trying to get SMG to appear in TGIQ, he was glad she couldn't make it, cause it made the ep so much more. He said that he already had his couple with Spike and Angel. Their chemistry is great and energetic. For Buffy to pick either one of them would throw off their relationship, and the way they interact together.
For the record, this isn't an argument or fight to me. It's an exciting discussion. I only just was able to register, and I've had all these thoughts and ideas and feelings about the Buffyverse churning around in my brain and no opportunity to share them with people who are going to do anything other than look at me and go "huh?" So this is me jumping up and down going, you know what I'm talking about, yes, and you think it's worth discussing, yes, yes, yes!

Actually, I liked Riley a lot more the second time I went through the series. I think it was good for Buffy to be able to have a sort of normal relationship (with a guy who just happens to be a demon hunter) with a relatively uncomplicated sex life for a while. But he couldn't deal with the pressures of being in love with a slayer.

The one guy I thought actually could work for Buffy other than Angel was Robin Wood, sigh, but that went in another direction.

I don't think Angel had really moved on from Buffy. I think the Nina thing was pretty lackluster. She was sort of Angel's Riley, and Nina realized that she was not the love of Angel's life, just as Riley realized he was not the love of Buffy's.

Miss Edith, don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing Spike in any way. Actually I found Angel's constant dewy-eyedness a little tiresome. Moving to his own series and having to fight the good fight without Buffy was good for him, put a little starch into the boy. I think Spike as a regular was a fantastic addition to BtVS, and hot, omigod. I don't know how Buffy resisted falling in love with him. I'm in love with the character. But I'm also convinced from my reading of the shows that Buffy did not love Spike, except in a "I love you because you're sacrificing yourself to save the world kind of way", while she and Angel never lost that bond.

I totally agree with you about the differences between Liam and William. Soul-less Angelus is an interesting character because he's SO evil (not just with the killings but with the mind-games). Soul-less Spike is interesting because he's so human.

Another point of difference between them is that before Buffy, Angel had never been in love with a woman, either as human or vampire. Spike/William had rarely been seen NOT in love with a woman. There was that period after Dru left him again, before Buffy, but even then he was with Harmony. He needed to be in a relationship. Was it that acknowledged need for love ("love's bitch but man enough to admit it") that kept that piece of humanity in him alive enough to set him on the path to redemption?

Why didn't Angel seek his soul the hard way, like Spike did? Maybe he didn't feel he could take the time from the fight he was in. Seriously, Spike was gone for months. And it was clear from "I Will Remember You" that Angel DID feel his role as a warrior for the good was more important than his chance for happiness with Buffy. But it's also clear from the whole cookie discussion that in Season 7 he thinks he DOES have a chance to reunite with Buffy when she's done baking. (Can you imagine anyone who hasn't seen that episode, trying to make sense of that statement?) Why is the curse/lost soul business no longer an issue? That's what I want to know. And it's not because of that "Oh you'll never have that one moment of perfect happiness again" business Wesley gives him. Angel went bad just from fantasizing that he was fantasizing about Buffy.

There's another consideration. Buffy and Angel's stories are at an end. They couldn't be happy together while they were on the air, because there wouldn't have been any dramatic tension. But we know that the actors don't want to reprise the roles, so there's no reason they can't ride off into the sunset together. As the lead character in his own story Spike has lots of places to go. Because I want to see Spike going on, I think it has to be a solo journey for him, or one with new companions or, if former companions, ones who will continue on the way.

And I'll only accept Andrew if he comes out of the closet.

But I guess we'll just have to see what Joss decides.
Well most of my ideas have already been mentioned--oh well, originality is overrated.

I guess then what I want is Spike. I don't care how or when or why, I just want the movie to be real. The fact that there's so little possibility of other main characters showing up is sad and makes me worry that the whole thing might not happen. Which is depressing, cause these are my fave shows just like everyone else here.

Can Joss like, hurry up with the comics? I need my fix. I'm an adict and I need my drugs, damn it!
I disagree with Barboo. I really don't want Angel and Buffy riding in to the sunset together, i don't believe that Angel should get a happy ending or be shanshoed(whatever that means). Nor do i want a spuffy ending since they changed Spike's character after season7 of Buffy. I believe that Cordelia was the love of angel's unlife, simply becuse they fit so great together.
Cordelia KNEW who angel was, something that imo Buffy never did. She fell in love with a knight in shining armor never knowing of the disgusting monster that lay hidden behind the soul. And i don't think that he did his worst when he was Angelus in season2. Angel even said that Drusilla was the worst he had done, while i think that what he did to Holtz's family was MUCH worse. As for Spike's relationship with Buffy, i think they came full circle in season7. They had gone trough so much together, enemies, slaying-partners, friends, lovers, and in the end i think a deeper connection then friends wich we didn't see evolve becuse Sarah M. didn't want to play Buffy anymore and Spike was flown over to the spinoff. So were do i stand, i think Buffy deserves better then Angel and Spike deserves better then Buffy. Hopefully someone new is gonna be introduced in the possible Spike tv-movie.


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