Whedonesque : Comments on 9362 : UPN, WB to be replaced by new network.

Bloody hell. Didn't see that one coming.

Wow, so some shows are going to get the ax due to lack of room! Interesting...

And even msnbc.com is running this as 'breaking news'! How did I not hear about this...

[ edited by Rogue Slayer on 2006-01-24 18:51 ]

Rogue Slayer | January 24, 20:50 CET

Wow, was there a merger in the works, of is this all of a sudden? Still, hope that VM will go on, and wonder what will happen to Supernatural, I like that one also.

[ edited by Kraze on 2006-01-24 18:51 ]

Kraze | January 24, 20:50 CET

Wow. Well thankfully they say Veronica Mars is going on this new network.

UtterlyJP | January 24, 20:51 CET

Um. Wow. My God, I hope this doesn't really affect "Veronica Mars"... I'd have to kill myself. However, if it affected "Charmed" in a bloody and messy way...

Knuckleball | January 24, 20:52 CET

Also will CW make noises about wanting a Spike movie?

Simon | January 24, 20:55 CET

Really though... CW? They couldn't come up with something a bit more interesting, like The Veronica Mars Network of Amazing?

Knuckleball | January 24, 20:58 CET

Anyone know what CW actually stands for?

Simon | January 24, 20:59 CET

This will make the competition for new shows that much more difficult, especially since this network won't be able to take on too many.. however it will mean better lead-ins for its better shows which will only help.

rockchalkwatcher | January 24, 21:01 CET

if it affected "Charmed" in a bloody and messy way...

Isn't this Charmed's last season anyway?

Also will CW make noises about wanting a Spike movie?

Well, both networks aired Buffy. I suppose it depends on which of the executives stay on at the new network. Although, I'm not sure if the Spike movie, when it ever comes to pass, was heading toward the WB anyway.

killinj | January 24, 21:03 CET

Great news about Veronica Mars, assuming we can take that as a renewal announcement. Just wish that Supernatural had been mentioned too, but i think that is most likely safe anyway.

As for the main network merger point of the story, a friend of mine mentioned something along these lines before christmas, although i didn't take much notice having heard nothing about it myself. Wonder if he actually knew something or whether it was just an amazing coincidence. I'll have to ask next time i talk to him.

Buffysmglover | January 24, 21:06 CET

Anyone know what CW actually stands for?

If this is a joint venture between WB and CBS as reported, with each company owning a 50% stake, the name is presumably just the first letter of the two companies. 'WC' wouldn't have worked, for obvious reasons, or is that just a British thing?

alien lanes | January 24, 21:07 CET

My guess is CW stands for CBS/Warner.

The article says that CW will include shows like "Veronica Mars", but I expect no decisions have been made yet. My take is that this decreases VW's chances of being picked up, since there are now twice as many candidates for the same number of spots. I'm hopeful, though.

fruit punch mouth | January 24, 21:07 CET

Aye CBS/Warner makes a lot of sense. I wonder if Smallville is actually a lockin for the new network. I know that a lot of James fans would like to see him in a sixth season.

Simon | January 24, 21:09 CET

Wow, that's a bit of a shock.
Echoing the above in hoping VM and other shows are treated well by this.

Paul_Rocks | January 24, 21:13 CET

Simon, I'm guessing it's CBS/Warner (CW). Here's where I get stumped, if you'll allow me to media literacy geek a bit: Since the Viacom/CBS split at the end of last year, CBS has become owner of two networks (which is different from a network and a gaggle of cable nets). Originally, UPN (United Paramount Network) was under the Paramount banner, but jumped ships in the Viacom split (not that it matters, really, as Sumner Redstone still lords over both companies). So, from a corporate media standpoint, CBS now owns one network and half of another (CW), and I smell serious deregulation in the air...

Soon Disney will own them all...

But I still get my VM and GG, so I'll be tuning in, even as the media conglomerate landscape becomes more and more scary...

mosie | January 24, 21:13 CET

Actually,'WC' would fit quite nicely with some of the WB/UPN's output. They should work on a better name, though.

It will mean a more difficult environment for interesting new shows, which never helps.

[ edited by The Devil's Robot on 2006-01-24 19:17 ]

The Devil's Robot | January 24, 21:17 CET

Here's some more detailed news from Broadcasting & Cable Magazine regarding the merger;

"The merged entity will be launched in fall 2006, with each company owning 50% of a new network, dubbed The CW. The WB and UPN will continue to broadcast their regular schedules until that time. Popular shows from each will morph into the new net.

Tribune WB stations and CBS's UPN affiliates will sign a 10-year affiliation agreement.

Dawn Ostroff, President of UPN, will be president of entertainment for The CW, while John Maatta, COO of The WB, will be COO.

"This new network will serve the public with high-quality programming and maintain our ongoing commitment to our diverse audience," said CBS President/CEO Leslie Moonves. "The CW will be able to draw from the creative talent and production resources from the top two television production studios in the business, while also seeking programming from all sources -- independent producers or other studios.

"With this move, we will be creating a viable entity, one well-equipped to compete, thrive and serve all our many publics in this multi-channel media universe."

The combinatoin of Tribune's 16 stations and CBS' 12 UPN stations will give the network an immediate 48% coverage of the U.S., with the rest of the affiliation described as a "combination of selected current UPN and The WB stations."

I'm not quite sure how unsettling this may be in some areas. I do know that this should not have come as a shock to anyone who has been watching what has been happening the last few years. UPN gaining ground as the WB was losing ground. Then this past year congress legislating the number of stations a corporation could own in a market, which would directly impact both UPN & the WB since they had the most growth potential. The corporations wanted more than the government would allow them. It was acknowledged then that if corporations were not alloud to own and operate more stations in certain areas then UPN & WB may never have a competative chance to survive. In some articles it was mentioned that in the next 5 years one or both networks would go under unless something drastic took place like the networks merging into 1. So not completely surprised to hear this but I am surprised at the short turn around on the timetable and wonder how this will impact the affilates in some areas.

Oh and curious about the no mention of some of the WB heads and their positions within the new network.

[ edited by RavenU on 2006-01-24 19:31 ]

RavenU | January 24, 21:18 CET

I know that a lot of James fans would like to see him in a sixth season.

Really? Most James fans I know want him in a new show of his own and given that he's auditioning for pilot season I figured that meant his stint on Smallville was over after this season ends.

killinj | January 24, 21:21 CET

Well, as long as VM and Supernatural make the cut, I will restrain from throwing my toaster at any executives.

riaspark17 | January 24, 21:21 CET

That's CRAZY. Wow.

SlayerTV | January 24, 21:23 CET

I don't think we can quite take VM's mention as confirmation that it'll be picked up, though. More likely, the article was just naming UPN's big shows in addition to the WB's big shows, to provide more balance, and VM was named as such. I'm desperately hoping that it will get picked up, though...

hrlo | January 24, 21:32 CET

Wow. Color me surprised. See, I follow movie studios, but TV networks? Not high on my list of priorities. So this is pretty shocking to me.

Hope Veronica Mars stays. I couldn't give two licks about the rest of the shows, though I hope Smallville and Charmed get annihilated...

UnpluggedCrazy | January 24, 21:39 CET

Wow... this news and Steve Jobs is about to become the new Walt Disney. Big news in entertainment this week!

Hjermsted | January 24, 21:44 CET

Has that gone through yet?

Huh. Well this was sudden and unexpected. Long as Veronica Mars comes through unscathed it's all good. Even better if they get rid of Jackie.

flightofserenity | January 24, 22:17 CET

Yes, that certainly came out of the blue. However, the WB has been getting hammered these past two seasons. And yes, this may have an effect on a Spike TV movie. David Janollari, the WB's entertainment president, has been the person saying he wanted a Spike movie though we often questioned his sincerity. Noticed he wasn't listed in the move to CW. But, Joss had ties with the UPN as well so who knows. Can anyone recall who was the UPN's entertainment president for the final two seasons BtVS? I don't think it was Dawn Ostroff. However, I seem to recall Les Moonves was in charge of CBS then. Please feel free to correct me if I'm off here.

Madhatter | January 24, 22:21 CET

Well, I'm shocked, but I don't tend to catch onto things very quickly :) I currently get the WB but not UPN. My WB affiliate isn't listed as Tribune. What's going to happen??? I would LOVE to get the new channel so I can watch VM. *crossing fingers* WOW!

supersymetry | January 24, 22:27 CET

Is anyone else hoping they eventually put on shows at 10 pm like CBS, ABC, and NBC do? They and Fox desperately need more time slots.

I can't remember who but one of the heads at UPN or CBS said if they were in charge they wouldn't have gone through with the deal to bring Buffy to UPN since UPN lost money on Buffy.

[ edited by eddy on 2006-01-24 20:37 ]

eddy | January 24, 22:35 CET

Good idea, eddy, maybe if this new network is half CBS they will have shows at 10pm; that would allow for more of the "favorites" from UPN and WB to migrate.

spikeangellover | January 24, 22:38 CET

Yeah, 10pm shows on CW and Fox would be cool.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I think Veronica Mars will be fine, we'll see it on "the" CW (what a weak name).

jam2 | January 24, 22:40 CET

My head is spinning...

MySerenity | January 24, 22:41 CET

08:00 AM: Human Physiology
09:30 AM: Biochemistry II
11:00 AM: Physics II...

...And THIS is the thing that makes my head spin? Dude. I mean, dude. Now could someone please save "Arrested Development" while they're at it?

Arabchick | January 24, 22:41 CET

The suprising thing to me is why people are so surprised and shocked by this news, I mean who didn't see this coming.

Granted the timetable is shorter than I would have guessed, but that may be due to them putting the announcement off until the final phase was ready for launch.

Don't look for them to launch a 10pm - just because they are merging doesn't mean enough capital to cover an extra hour 5-6 nights a week. One does wonder if the will at least try for a 7 day a week network. Which would mean 2 extra hours a week of programing instead of 5-6 by adding a 10pm slot.

[ edited by RavenU on 2006-01-24 20:48 ]

RavenU | January 24, 22:43 CET

What? So, what will be airing on the station that loses out the programs that were on? Is there suddenly a station in every town with nothing to show?

Will the new network make room for extra shows by going 3 hours of primetime instead of 2? ( eddy and spikeangellover had the same idea as me while I was typing, hee.) What about VM? You can't cancel VM! She *rocks*! We watch Everwood and Everybody Hates Chris, too; what happens to all these shows?

Yeah, Arabchick, Arrested Development, good idea! This is so huge.

billz | January 24, 22:43 CET

spikeangellover, I'm hoping for 10-11pm programming too.

Otherwise the only show on the WB I care about, Everwood, will definitely get dropped.

Thank goodness about VM though. Maybe it'll pull bigger numbers this fall!

bravegal | January 24, 22:47 CET

I may be too optimistic, but I have to feel that the shows that were mentioned will be picked up in September by CW or the press release wouldn't have mentioned them. I hope. Or is this just CNN speculating?

Also, was everyone else able to view the video of this announcement? I must be missing a plug-in or something because I just get a blank screen and the play button doesn't work.

[ edited by spikeangellover on 2006-01-24 20:49 ]

[ edited by spikeangellover on 2006-01-24 20:55 ]

spikeangellover | January 24, 22:48 CET

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised that so many people are shocked by this myself. I know for a fact that quite a few small towns (my hometown, for one) don't actually have independent stations for both WB and UPN, and actually air both channels' programming on one channel anyway! And, epsecially with how badly things seem to be going for WB lately, I've been waiting for this to happen for a while now.

I do hope that VM and Supernatural both make the cut, though. If I lost my weekly doses of Dean and/or Logan, I might have to cry.

sonyajeb | January 24, 22:54 CET

So, can we now officially say that canceling Angel brought down the WB?

FaithFan | January 24, 23:00 CET

Maybe they'll move VM away from being against Lost and Bones. Then I can watch Bones too...

Rogue Slayer | January 24, 23:03 CET

I wouldn't expect 10 p.m. programming. The local channels that are WB and UPN stations have had 10 p.m. newscasts since long before there was a WB or UPN. And, those stations had programming long before there was a WB or UPN. Channel 9 and 11 in New York (for example) were filling slots just fine, mostly with syndication. I wouldn't be surprised to see a flurry of developments in the local angle though. It's funny, a few years ago our WB and UPN local channels switched. Now, they're merged networks. Wonder how that's gonna work?

I'm trying to think of the last WB or UPN show I watched regularly. I think it probably had Joss Whedon's name attached to it. (Odd, huh?)

With all the press VM's getting, I'd be surprised if it weren't picked up.

XanFan32 | January 24, 23:04 CET

Well it was going to happen, you could have guessed if you followed the insider reports on ratings for the last few years. The WB, since the time when "Angel" was on and specially after it was cancelled, was stagnant and not gaining share. While in the meantime Fox became a top 3 network and UPN was slowly growing its share.

Hey, if "Charmed" is gone great, that means sexy Alyssa Milano can go back to making Vampire movies (yeah!).

demon magnet | January 24, 23:05 CET

They should launch the new channel with a big tv movie of some sort. Maybe they could find a character who's been associated with both the WB and UPN. Any ideas?

Jon | January 24, 23:07 CET

OMG. Seriously? My stable little TV world as I've known it is being crushed! This is like an end of an era. The WB? No more? *tear,tear* Even though it's fallen in quality the last few years so might as well preserve those golden years. Plus I can't even imagine VM on another network. No more screaming at UPN anymore for it's VM meddling?

And if you think about it, this is a good thing for the shows on these netlets, provided they get on the schedule. Bolstering audiences by combining them into a fuller force. Except what will happen now to all these amazing show that will never be given the chance now that netlets are gone? Without netlets, we never would have even had Buffy, or Angel, or Veronica Mars. Oh I don't know how to take this news...

Also it must be said, The CW? WTF? Can you even imagine? Hey, let's turn on CW! It's just wrong. It must be changed...

So does this mean VM is guaranteed for next year???? I would imagine that they would be too curious to see how it would fair on this new network to just cancel it. Right? RIGHT?

*gets down on hands and knees to pray nonstop until May*

[ edited by zimshan on 2006-01-24 21:10 ]

zimshan | January 24, 23:07 CET

But the real question is: will there be any room on their new schedule for CSI: New York But a Different Part than Gary Sinise Is In?

zimshan: I think this means that absolutely nothing is guaranteed for next year.

[ edited by unreality on 2006-01-24 21:09 ]

unreality | January 24, 23:09 CET

I wouldn't have been surprised if someone said the WB was going kaput, with its terrible slide in ratings. But I am mildly surprised that there wasn't any buzz picked up about this earlier.

Anyway, I'm with those hoping that VM survives the merger and that JM's popularity with the WB PTB will cross over onto the CW network (the linked article has apparently been amended to explain the initials). Coming from the south, though, my first response was "The Country-Western Network"?

palehorse | January 24, 23:11 CET

So, can we now officially say that canceling Angel brought down the WB?

Well at the very least, we won't have the WB to kick around anymore *sheds a Nixon like tear*. It is the end of an ~~error~~ era.

Simon | January 24, 23:11 CET

As for all this backlash against the acronym -- I seem to remember much the same directed against "The WB" and "UPN" when they rolled out. Rebranding is almost always going to sound stupid until people get used to it. "CW" isn't brilliant, but it's accurate, and almost anything else they picked would be cited as equally lame.

unreality | January 24, 23:12 CET

Not sure we can say that officially, FaithFan, however no replacement show in that time slot ever came close to matching Angel in ratings. Actually, their ratings have been falling across the board these past two years. Indirectly, I'm sure the upset fans of Angel had an impact, but the thing that really hurt them was the lack of quality of their recent programming.

And, still a awhile to go until September. No telling which shows will cross over, but good bet those with strong ratings should be OK. That should include VM.

Madhatter | January 24, 23:16 CET

Also, Garth Ancier and David Janollari are losing their jobs. Great job, guys, running the WB (into the ground)! So now all of the WB network execs responsible for Angel's cancellation have lost their jobs.

FaithFan | January 24, 23:19 CET

Maybe they will come to their senses and just call it JW instead of CW. It will be the Joss Whedon Network, shows Joss either produces, writes, co-stars, or just likes to watch. I'm sure he can at the least come up with 10 hours of scheduled programs a week.

[ edited by RavenU on 2006-01-24 21:24 ]

RavenU | January 24, 23:22 CET

Also, Garth Ancier and David Janollari are losing their jobs. Great job, guys, running the WB (into the ground)! So now all of the WB network execs responsible for Angel's cancellation have lost their jobs.

Bwah-hah-hah! I mean, sorry they lost their jobs and all, but, justice, dude. Seriously! ;-)

Maybe they will come to their senses and just call it JW instead of CW. It will be the Joss Whedon Network, shows Joss either produces, writes, co-stars, or just likes to watch. I'm sure he can at the least come up with 10 hours of scheduled programs a week.

YES! Woo-hoo! ;-)

[ edited by billz on 2006-01-24 21:32 ]

billz | January 24, 23:31 CET

The good thing about this is that with combining their assets, the new network will be broadcast in more than 95% of the market. Boding well for Veronica Mars cause it will reach viewers who didn't have UPN in the first place.

delirium_haze | January 24, 23:32 CET

Transcript of CNN video statement from CBS Chairman, Les Moonves.

"The formation of the CW provides immediate advantages and upgrades to all the key constituencies that we serve in network broadcasting: viewers, stations and advertisers. You saw the tape - it’s a scheduler’s dream. Critically acclaimed and successful dramas such as Smallville, Gilmore Girls, Supernatural and Veronica Mars; comedies like the new hit Everybody Hates Chris, Girlfriends and Reba; as well as alternative series like reality hits ranging from America’s Next Top Model to Beauty and the Geek to WWE Wrestling. We are going to have quite a schedule. Audiences will be served with 30 hours a week of quality programming that reaches all kinds of young and minority viewers. Our affiliated and owned stations will do much better. Advertisers will have the best environment to reach a valuable audience. The bottom line, this is a venture that benefits many constituencies. From local stations to local communities, from minority audiences to children, from Madison Avenue to Wall Street and to the shareholders of the CBS Corporation, Time Warner and the Tribune Company. This is a great business and creative move for all three companies."

I don't think they'd call out those specific shows without at least an intention of continuing them. They'll need all the help they can get to establish a new network. It also mentions 30 hours of programming per week, which makes me think adding 10pm shows is possible.

JusticeDemon | January 24, 23:38 CET

RavenU, you're my new hero.

kalia | January 24, 23:39 CET

delirium - Actually only the big 3 cover up to 95% of the market, Fox has about 85% market coverage. At the most the new combined network may reach 70-75% of the actual market in the US. Before the seperate netlets covered about 40% each (that is including areas where both were availible in the same market). So even though it will be a marked improvement it will have to be seen which affilates they are bringing onboard, to figure the impact.

RavenU | January 24, 23:39 CET

If it is 30 hours of programming don't count on the 10pm - cause with 3 hours of primetime a night they would need 10 days. I do believe they were adding the afternoon 2 hour animation block the WB offers to that time, they suggested of programming.

With just the shows they mentioned that is 9.5 hours of programming, they are planning on merging.

[ edited by RavenU on 2006-01-24 21:45 ]

RavenU | January 24, 23:43 CET

Gosh! I haven't heard anything about that before, which is unusual since most of the time you tend to hear about these things ahead of time. I just hope this doesn't hurts Veronica Mars' chance of survival though.

Djungelurban | January 24, 23:43 CET

Add this from AP about the scheduling issue:

"Leslie Moonves, chief executive of CBS Corp., said the new network will air 30 hours of programming seven days a week aimed in part at young audiences.

The plan includes two hours of programs in prime time each night Monday through Friday and three hours on Sunday evening. It will also offer programming on weekday and Sunday afternoons, and five hours of children's programs on Saturday morning."

Znachki | January 24, 23:44 CET

Interesting and surprising... I'm with those who mostly just care about whether this means that VM (And Gilmore Girls, though I don't think that's in as much danger) will get renewed.... Despite the mention, I feel like it probably decreases the chances, more's the pity. I wonder how the new network will envision itself? WB was always thought of as the "teen" network, and UPN was just a weird hodgepodge of programming, mostly bad. Who knows, maybe this will make it much stronger than either one was by itself? I guess we'll see when we get more news about which shows are making the cut.

acp | January 24, 23:45 CET

RavenU, you could be right, but I just read the official press release and execs are giving the 95% figure, so I don't know.

delirium_haze | January 24, 23:47 CET

So they are taking the WB scheduling and adding an extra night, in other words they are trying to compete with FOX.

95% of the combined market share is a better sound bite then 75% of the overall market.

[ edited by RavenU on 2006-01-24 21:48 ]

RavenU | January 24, 23:47 CET

How tragic that the network that dumped Angel has ~~had its comeuppance~~ had to merge....

Gill | January 24, 23:48 CET

Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune blogs her Dream CW Lineup. She kicks off the lineup with a request: [Monday] is a prime spot for some fresh, bold programming. Get "Buffy," "Angel" and "Firefly" creator Joss Whedon on the phone and have him whip up one of his patented, obsessively loved cult dramas. Cowboys in space, vampire detectives, superhero gals -- whatever.

Can't say I disagree.

Johnny | January 24, 23:51 CET

Neither can I, Johnny. As RavenU mentioned, it should be the 'Dream JW Lineup'. :)

Madhatter | January 25, 00:00 CET

This is good news, right? Now you'll ALWAYS have something to watch and I've only got to pay extra for one channel and I'm sure this'll introduce a hell of a lot more viewers to VM and other shows you may like. Viewers for all of these shows will definitely go up. If I were another network, I'd be worried.

Christopher | January 25, 00:03 CET

"It would appear that Angel finally slayed his dragon."

That thought just hit me and I thought I would share.

Madhatter | January 25, 00:11 CET

It says Gilmore Girls will still be on the air too, which is my second favorite show of all time (besides Buffy), up until SEASON 4. With this new merger, GG should call it quits. Anyone else a fan of GG, and think that it's quality has fallen dramatically?

Capt Mel | January 25, 00:13 CET

IMO your right. They are trying to directly compete with FOX. However, make no mistake people, they are trying to go in a new direction. Most of the time new networks have to start from the ground up and slowly build over time. FOX did the same thing. With taking the 2 networks and combining the strongest shows they are trying to position themselves for the future.

This gives them instant programming with decent ratings. This also buys them time to change the network a la FOX. I think in the short term this is a good thing. However, I also think 10 years from now, most of the type of shows in this lineup won't get the time of day... a la FOX. So I think this is bitter sweet.

If they really are trying to compete directly with FOX then make no doubt that the FOXISH quick hook will be coming to a show you like real soon. Again, short term I love it. It's the long term I am worried about. I wonder what they are going to do with the extra channel in my area (WB and UPN had stations here)?

DarenG | January 25, 00:15 CET

"Who knows, maybe this will make it much stronger than either one was by itself?"

I definitely think so. Both networks have a few good shows and a whole lotta...less than stellar stuff. Keep all the stuff that rates well and it should make for a strong network. I can't see why shows like VM wouldn't be a given. I hope Supernatural falls into that category as well - I've never actually seen VM but really enjoy Supernatural. Actually, I think those two shows would make a nice tag team.

It also goes without saying that a night 'o Whedon would be the bees knees!

[ edited by Grace on 2006-01-24 22:16 ]

Grace | January 25, 00:15 CET

So what do you think? when Janerelli (Sp??) was talking about how he'd do the Spike movie, but Joss was sooo busy, he probably already knew about this?

spikeylover | January 25, 00:19 CET

So, can we now officially say that canceling Angel brought down the WB?

I was thinking the same thing, Faithfan! ;-)

Nebula1400 | January 25, 00:19 CET

Yes, Capt Mel, I've loved GG since day one, but I really think with this merger, they should just call it quits. It kills me to watch the show every week, knowing how dramatically better it used to be. Way back when, you know, almost NO ONE watched it. Now they are getting the ratings galore, and it's more popular than ever, but most people watching just don't seem to understand that the show has fallen from it's once lovely stature. So yea, here's one GG fan for life, saying they really do need to end it this year. For money purposes though, I'm sure they won't....

zimshan | January 25, 00:29 CET

I still love GG! I'm scared that when Amy and Daniel Palladino move on to their new show that GG is going to go down the drain w/out them...

MySerenity | January 25, 00:33 CET

Thanks, JusticeDemon, for the transcript of the video; I still can't get the *@#% thing to work. And, no 10-11pm, which I guess makes sense, actually, for a new network, even if it is a combination. I agree that it appears to be going the Fox route. Which could be good, or bad, depending upon how you look at it.

spikeangellover | January 25, 00:43 CET

LA Times has a vast article about it.

Those that feared for "Supernatural" might be relieved to read this:

"Current UPN and WB programs likely to find their way onto the new network include "America's Next Top Model," "Gilmore Girls," "Supernatural," "Veronica Mars," "Girlfriends," "Reba" and the WWE's "Smackdown."

Snugels | January 25, 00:45 CET

Capt Mel, I agree, to a point. I don't think GG is anywhere close to the brilliant show it was in its early years, but every time I think it's completely gone downhill, it'll surprise me with a terrific episode. I still love and care about the characters (though Rory often teeters on the brink... and I used to adore her!). It's not as good, but I still watch (though I don't care if I occasionally miss an episode) and still enjoy it. I can't imagine it without the full attention of Amy Palladino, though - that could move it into Sorkin-less West Wing territory, which really would be the kiss of death.

acp | January 25, 00:45 CET

Dawn Ostroff (head of UPN) will be incharge of The CW. She was instrumental in bringing Buffy to UPN and was a major supporter of the Faith Spinoff. So, I don't think the hopes of a Buffyverse tv movies/spinoffs die with the WB. Especially if the new network suffers any major downturns, they might want something high profile that everyone's heard of to bring in viewers.

FaithFan | January 25, 01:08 CET

I've been watching Gilmore Girls since season 2... I think. Hmm whenever I was a freshman in college... so 2001. I don't think the show has gone down hill at all. I still enjoy the show as much as I always did. In fact it wasn't until the 3rd or 4th season that I really became addicted to the show. Though after she broke up Dean's marriage they are making it much harder for me to relate/sympathize with Rory... but then again I am a guy so I suppose it some ways that's a good thing.

I do think this would be a good season to end the show though... if not this one, than the next, end if when Rory graduates college.

war_machine | January 25, 01:35 CET

For more on what stations will be affected by this change, the futon critic has posted info from Tribune Broadcasting about its affilates affected by the merger.

RavenU | January 25, 01:36 CET

About Gilmore Girls ending: Didn't Amy Sherman Palladino once comment that she intended for the show to end after Rory graduated from Yale?

non sequitur | January 25, 01:51 CET

The combinatoin of Tribune's 16 stations and CBS' 12 UPN stations will give the network an immediate 48% coverage of the U.S., with the rest of the affiliation described as a "combination of selected current UPN and The WB stations."

Wow, that's shocking to think that so few stations have such a wide reach.

"It would appear that Angel finally slayed his dragon."
Lovely quote Madhatter

yourlibrarian | January 25, 02:00 CET

Dawn Ostroff (head of UPN) will be in charge of The CW. She was instrumental in bringing Buffy to UPN and was a major supporter of the Faith Spinoff.

Wait. Could this whole new network & Ms. Ostroff running it be why Joss took Amy Acker to dinner and talked to her about a Spike movie? I'm just sayin'.

billz | January 25, 02:05 CET

So The WB did a presentation for the TCA earlier this month and pretended everything was as right as rain? Please don't tell me that the WB withheld the truth. It would destroy my world.

Simon | January 25, 02:14 CET

But the real question is: will there be any room on their new schedule for CSI: New York But a Different Part than Gary Sinise Is In?

The CSI's are on CBS, not their netlet UPN. I suspect if there are any new CSI's (gawd forbid) they will also be on CBS.

Also, Garth Ancier and David Janollari are losing their jobs.

Are we sure that they are?

killinj | January 25, 02:24 CET

Palladino has said that she wants to end GG after Rory graduated, but Rory in Yale hasn't even become a main focus of the show anymore. The main thing missing from the show this season are the quick wit jokes, and extremely entertaining references. Go back. Watch a GG episode from season 1,2,3,4 and count the number of references to pop culture. Now watch one from season 6. Almost none. Palladino has said in interviews on the season 1 boxset that she tries not dumb her audience down. Maybe she should be reminded...

Capt Mel | January 25, 02:32 CET

Yes, we're sure, killinj. This is from the nytimes.com's article on the breaking development:

"In probably the most significant executive announcement tied to the new network, Mr. Moonves's lieutenant at UPN, Dawn Ostroff, was named the president of entertainment for the new network. Both top executives at the WB, Garth Ancier and David Janollari, were not given positions at the new network, though Mr. Meyer thanked them for their efforts at the WB."

Indeed, to quote Madhatter, it would appear that Angel has finally slayed his dragon. (Edited to add that I am assuming Ancier and Janollari were responsible for AtS's demise.)

[ edited by phlebotinin on 2006-01-25 00:35 ]

phlebotinin | January 25, 02:33 CET

Sorry I am late about this. I thought it was an April Fool's joke. But it isn't.
I am hoping the new merger will rethink what was the mission of the old WB-UPN..and start thinking of new missions, like movies of the week featuring some blonde vampire who never thought he'd get a soul, or something like that. It's safe VM should be part of it, "Everybody Hates Chris" should be, along with "Supernatural". And if we're really lucky, no "Charmed".

[ edited by impalergeneral on 2006-01-25 00:34 ]

impalergeneral | January 25, 02:33 CET

WHAT THE...!!!

This is life changing stuff guys. There will no longer be six major networks to watch anymore. There will only be five. Now where are all the good shows going to go once they get cancelled? It seems now that the cancelation of Angel really did kill the WB. Serves them right! Bastards! And for God's sake, start showing shows at 10:00 PM. If you want to be one of the big boys then start acting like one. You too FOX.

SpikeBad | January 25, 02:34 CET

Thanks phlebotinin!

killinj | January 25, 02:39 CET

I agree with Matt Roush who thinks that Gilmore Girls should be paired off with Veronica Mars and Supernatural with Smallville. Those are the shows I care most about.

electricspacegirl | January 25, 02:51 CET

SpikeBad, LOL. I'm old enough to remember only three major networks. And a couple of independent stations that ran syndicated shows. Imagine: only three or four choices on the TV!

XanFan32 | January 25, 05:06 CET

Add me to the side that thinks Gilmore Girls is just as strong as it ever was.

Barry Woodward | January 25, 05:41 CET

Managed to post in the wrong place... Stupid me...

[ edited by Djungelurban on 2006-01-25 03:58 ]

Djungelurban | January 25, 05:58 CET

Wait. Could this whole new network & Ms. Ostroff running it be why Joss took Amy Acker to dinner and talked to her about a Spike movie? I'm just sayin'.

I doubt Joss knew about it since Vince Mcmahon and WWE weren't informed at all. Their contract is up for renewal this fall.

eddy | January 25, 06:21 CET

Wow, this is news. They better not put a new "spin" on my VM. It's perfect, don't touch it. We all know the CW (that's weird to type) will be pushing new shows that will give our loved ones, be it VM, GG, Supernatural, or Smallville (kind of), competition. But hey, I'll take a new Joss show! Bring it on! Tales of the Dog Walker? Aliens Who Eat Me? I'm really up for anything.

I'm thinking if the Spike movie happens, it will be direct to DVD. If it DOES air on TV, CW is where it will land more than likely. Maybe the new Joss show will help promote a new Joss Spike movie. Hopeful...yep, that's my middle name. It's sad really.

I'm a newbie GG fan, thanks to you guys. I started catching reruns on ABC Family during winter break and loved it! I now watch GG from 7-8 then it's all about my love for Scrubs.

Harmalicious | January 25, 09:09 CET

"In probably the most significant executive announcement tied to the new network, Mr. Moonves's lieutenant at UPN, Dawn Ostroff, was named the president of entertainment for the new network. Both top executives at the WB, Garth Ancier and David Janollari, were not given positions at the new network, though Mr. Meyer thanked them for their efforts at the WB."

Whoa. So in this race, WB really lost to UPN? Whoa. Angel really truly did kill the WB. Took two years but...WOW. Give me five, BUD!

And to Capt Mel's Comment:
The main thing missing from the show this season are the quick wit jokes, and extremely entertaining references. Go back. Watch a GG episode from season 1,2,3,4 and count the number of references to pop culture. Now watch one from season 6. Almost none. Palladino has said in interviews on the season 1 boxset that she tries not dumb her audience down. Maybe she should be reminded...

Yes! Thank you! The show's ingenuity was built on it's line by liners PACKED into each script, with references up to wazoo. It was the most quotable show on television. And no one hardly watched it. Fast forward to now? They have sold out. Given up their original core of the show, and replaced it with something second rate. Hiked up the drama to soaptastic levels. And for some reason, NOW everyone's watching. It really is painful to watch today, when remembering its golden years. I can't hardly even consider it the same show. It's two different shows to me these days. I really wish they'd just call it quits. But I'm sure they'll milk out for every penny they can get. 'Tis a real shame...

[ edited by zimshan on 2006-01-25 08:25 ]

zimshan | January 25, 10:25 CET

Wow amazing how there was not a whisper about this on the net. Must've been some real closed-door sessions there. Btw, I do think it's kinda funny that the WB, kinda known for being the 'white teenager' channel merged with UPN, mainly known as the 'black sitcom channel'. Wonder what will come out of that?

(And yes I know both channels had plenty of exceptions to those reputations, but overall that's how they were seen as far as I could tell)

And if we're really lucky, no "Charmed".

That sh*te is still on??? There really is no justice or logic in this world....

Yes! Thank you! The show's ingenuity was built on it's line by liners PACKED into each script, with references up to wazoo.

I did enjoy last season's reference to Spike and Drusilla. Was that last season?

EdDantes | January 25, 10:40 CET

EdDantes:

Btw, I do think it's kinda funny that the WB, kinda known for being the 'white teenager' channel merged with UPN, mainly known as the 'black sitcom channel'. Wonder what will come out of that?

The black and white teenage sitcom channel? It's a winner!

I'm certain that there was a lot more to this than it simply being a result of cancelling Angel but it's strange to think that this one decision made two years ago could have played a part in the downfall of the network.

I mean, not only did the WB immediately lose the loyalty of the Whedon collective but also a large number of fans of their other series. I personally know a good number of people that gave up on secondary series such as Charmed and Smallville in protest over Angel. Most people didn't spite themselves shows that they truly enjoyed (i know a lot of people stuck by Gilmore Girls, for example) but other series suffered quite significantly. Do you think it was a coincidence that a star of Angel was brought in to save Smallville from almost definate cancellation?

So yeah, it appears that Angel really did get to slay his dragon. Good to know!

Buffysmglover | January 25, 16:16 CET

Smallville has never had problems with getting renewed. Warner Bros made a mint from selling the syndication rights and DVD sales. Angel on the other hand didn't bring much of any revenue to Time Warner.

eddy | January 25, 19:16 CET

Actually pretty much every UK science fiction magazine had Smallville pegged for it's final season last year. SFX, for example, had pretty much written it off until the news broke about James. I've no doubt that the fact that Time Warner has the benefit of syndication rights and DVD sales helped too but i don't think a season six of Smallville was such a certainty in the fall of 2005.

Buffysmglover | January 25, 19:39 CET

The show was renewed before James was even casted. The first 3 episodes (which got me back on board) were mostly filmed before JM's casting too. He's been in what, 5 out of 12 episodes this season? Yeah he's playing a interesting character and I feel the show is revitalized but theres far more at work here than one actor. Its more of a group effort and things meshing at the right moment(NBC thursdays being weak, OC falling from grace, ABC's drama sked not working)

And just so I'm clear here. When you say "pegged for it's final season last year" do you mean season 5 as its last or season 4 when it was airing? Because yeah season 4 was dreadful and I had written the show off but the beginning of Season 5 was a really good turnaround for that show.

eddy | January 25, 21:27 CET

When I saw the CW network, I immediately assumed it would be all country western music all the time.
With maybe the occasional clip of Xander listening to Patsy Cline thrown in for variety.
I prefer the JW network as well.

Lioness | January 25, 21:29 CET

I'm still reading through the thread, but I have to stopand mention:
How could VM not be picked up? Critical winner, strong fan base, etc. It may not be wildly profitable but it's certainly one of the reasons the fanbase tunes in to UPN. They'd be crazy not to keep it. VM really diversifies their audience. But sometimes I'm too optimistic.

I think the merger sounds like a good idea. There are just one or two shows on each that remotely interest me, and this merger should up the quality of new pilots in the next few seasons. They'll be forced to work harder for fewer spots.

Yes, jam2. "CW" sounds pretty weak. :)

Not that it was my idea or anything, but I've actually thought in the past their programming would be better off on one network, which as a merged network would be much stronger comepetition for the others. In the age of TIVO and DVR and even old fashioned VCRs, do competing time slots really matter?

April | January 25, 22:04 CET

Eddy, i should have made that clearer but as you finally figured out i was talking about season five being pegged as the final one. The UK scifi mags were reviewing the new fall season (Smallville season five included) and most were assuming that it would not return for a sixth year. Obviously that was prior to the news that James was joining the show.

Sorry for the confusion. :)

Buffysmglover | January 25, 23:47 CET

And as I thought this merger between the two netlets may open the door to reviving the first-run syndicated show. Looks like calls are pouring into some production companies, for more news about that click here.

So if all else fails this may be the new direction for Joss to look at for any future TV projects, tie it with direct-to-DVD or on-demand TV and I think we might have a winner. After all it was syndication that breathed life into a new Star Trek and brought us, Xena and Hercules. Synidication more than any other type of broadcasting has embraced the genre shows of fantasy, sci-fi, and horror. It is what actually created cult programming, be it first or second run programming. With all the unproven areas, such as DTDVD and ODTV, syndication has a proven track record that is over 20 years old in the first-run and nearly 40 years in second run shows, when done right it works.

RavenU | January 26, 00:42 CET

Prepare to barf. This is from a mee-moe from Garth Ancier to WB employees posted on Defamer.com about all that he accomplished at the WB:

All of us at The WB need to keep this network as vibrant as it has always been at serving the American public from today through the launch of the new network this fall. We have exciting programs like “PEPPER DENNIS” to launch, new pilots like “AQUAMAN” to develop, immensely popular series like “SMALLVILLE” and “GILMORE GIRLS” to protect, and farewells to audience favorites like “7th HEAVEN” to manage. We will need all of you to keep your focus on these critical goals through September. […]

I believe that history will look very kindly on the little network that, against all odds, beckoned us to move to Dawson’s idyllic Creek, be a part of the Camden family, believe in the power of 3 Charmed sisters, gave us the chance to watch Clark Kent grow up, hunt vampires with Buffy and Angel, go to college with Felicity, see ourselves in the father/son and mother/daughter relationships of Everwood and Star’s Hollow, and laugh with Reba, Jamie, Steve and the Mowry twins. It has been quite a ride.

Ew! He put us in the same incredibly long sentence as Charmed! Ew! :-(

BTW, fruit punch mouth, great first post! :-)

billz | January 28, 06:00 CET

January 24 2006